My friend seems surprised her ex is thriving domestically

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m 100% sure the DH was not pulling his weight, feigned incompetence to get out of things. Now that he has to do the job he has risen to the task but I’m sure was different in marriage.

+1. Men often step up when they are given no other choices, and also face the cold hard reality of what happens when no one picks up their slack.

Dollars to donuts he "did his best and let her do the rest" while married.

Single parenting is rough. She expected life to get easier when she was free of the dead weight. It's not easier to single parent, just different.

And since the world falls over swooning (like OP) when divorced dads pull 50% of their weight, it's salt in the wound as she's regarded as damaged goods.

I get why your friend is bitter, just saying.

The ex isn't pulling 50% of his weight. He is, apparently, pulling 100% of his weight 50% of the time.

As he should. The fact that you think this is notable is, in fact, notable, and proves PP's point.

Not the PP, but it was clear to me that PP didn't think it was notable. He/She was simply correcting the DCUMad narrative that no man pulls 100% of his weight the appropriate amount of time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My friend was miserable the last five years of her marriage and blamed that on her husband. She divorced him two years ago, complaining about how she had to handle all the domestic stuff, the emotional work, being default parent, etc. You never know what’s happening in someone’s marriage but I never saw that — her DH seemed to be pretty involved, engaged and attentive with kids, rearranged his job roles to get better work-life balance, etc. But when friend would complain, I would always listen and try to be supportive of her feelings.

She initiated separation two years ago and they have been divorced now about 10 months and she is more miserable than ever. But one thing she continues to obsess about is that her ex didn’t fall flat on his face. He has a small townhouse with rooms for their kids (so does she), has them 50% of the time. The school calls *him* first if there is an issue, at the kids’ insistence. Their 14 yo DD apparently has asked to live full-time with her dad (which triggered a new round of upset from her this past weekend, understandably so). I don’t interact with him much but I have been inside his house — it’s tastefully decorated, albeit very much a man’s house (no sign there’s another woman in his life, at least not one with influence on home decorating). He looks fit, while my friend is just a mess.

It’s weird, like she thought this whole experience would show him that he couldn’t live without her and he obviously can and now she is disappointed by that. It’s like she is surprised to discover he is actually a competent adult. I don’t really know what to tell her except she needs to focus on her own life now and gently suggest she discuss the roots of her unhappiness with a therapist. Anyone else BTDT?

You still don’t know what’s really going on. Or what he’s telling the kids or spoiling them with- money, garbage food, screens, no rules.

He has a simpler life and less responsibilities, plus if the kids are teens they are way more self sufficient than ages 0-12.

Your friend needs to detach from him, hopefully he is a good coparent not a lazy one that throws money at the kids for admiration. She needs to just be the best person she can be, and forget about him. He failed at child rearing and living in a family house. It broke his marriage and intact family. It’s the ultimate test and he couldn’t do that. So unless he marries, has new babies and lives in a house again (not townhouse) no one really knows if he’s “doing better.” With the divorce he vastly simplified his life and responsibilities. Especially if he half @$$es the ones that remain. Unf your friend is probably still the default parent, monitoring for health issues, emotional support, planning school obligations, monitoring academics, and other deadlines. Dad just does his after school time and outings. Easy peasy. It’s called Disney Dad for a reason, not coaching dad or homework dad or healthy cooking dad.

It’s best these types do not get remarried as they cannot handle the responsibilities and manage their time. Or resources.

[Anonymous]

He’s just living like a single bachelor working, eating out and hosting some 14 yo during his custody time.
Per the courts, all he has to do is provide shelter, food and clothes.

Doing the bare minimum is doing the bare minimum. Sad, but not difficult.
Or is he suddenly researching la crosse teams and finding the best programs and managing tryouts, practices and the politics or that, when he never did before?

[Anonymous]

Of course the kids want the school to call the laid back, pushover parent. Duh.

The kids will come around to know who they can trust and relay on for the real stuff. Right now they’re playing the lazy parent for everything they can get. This happens in married or divorce parenting situations.

[Anonymous]

Define thriving.

Suddenly having 50% of your life to only yourself would be quite a gift.

But thriving when children are involved means proactively parenting and making them thrive, academically, socially, emotionally, athletically, etc. Start there.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

OP are you a guy ? I’m surprised a woman would write a post like this

Yes, friend from college. Our children are friends, too. I know her ex by extension of her, but she and I have the relationship (which has never been intimate and I am happily married).

A make friend from college wrote this.

Weird.

[Anonymous]

This happened to me. My XW was angry a significant portion of the time, and yet she wouldn't talk to me. So I had to become endlessly solicitous to try to find the thing that pleased her. It was exhausting, and doomed to fail.

Then she had a bunch of meetings with her happily divorced friend, and she latched join to the idea that the issue was me and life would be better without me. Once the idea was planted it became the thesis, and every interaction was interpreted to enforce the thesis. So she ended it. It was messy, and painful, and expensive for both of us. And then there was the impact on our child.

Fast forward a couple of years and our child said to me: "mom was always mad, and she was convinced it was all your fault. Now she's mad and she can't blame you so she ends up taking it out on me." The anger has been such that she's called our child names and threatened things that TBH will never be forgotten. Regardless of how she feels about me, there's an opportunity for her to address unresolved issues from childhood for her relationship with her child, and any other relationship she has. Whether she takes that step or not is entirely up to her.

Through our community I have heard that she's surprised that life isn't what she'd expected, that I'm thriving (including with a new relationship), that her relationship with her child has become notably worse since the divorce. She's reached out to friends for advice, and I applaud her for paying attention.

But to the OP: this absolutely happened to me. It's NEVER as simple as you think, regardless of which side you're on. And, I sincerely wish her the best.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

OP are you a guy ? I’m surprised a woman would write a post like this

Yes, friend from college. Our children are friends, too. I know her ex by extension of her, but she and I have the relationship (which has never been intimate and I am happily married).

DP. Never crossed my mind you might have more-than-friends interest in her, it sounded more like you’re hot for him.

Nope, not gay. Weird it came across that way.

I guess I come across more from the perspective of why are you surprised? Did you just assume men are idiots when it comes to these things? We aren’t.

I mean, I did tell her something like that at one point but she was pretty dug in on her narrative about him not doing enough around the house, etc.

Latent gender biases can affect your perceptions. If you have a mom and a dad putting in equal effort at home, he is more likely to be praised for being so involved even though he never does the dishes, while she is more likely to be labeled as lazy because she never does the dishes. Unless you were living in their home, you know very little about their contributions at home.

Yes, I said that in my first post. I also think the truth lies somewhere in between and that probably wasn’t worth divorcing over, assuming that was the real problem. In any case, it seems like *he* wasn’t the source of her unhappiness as she continues to be unhappy, perhaps moreso. I wish I could help her find happiness. Because from where I sit, he seems to be perfectly happy and functional while my friend is just a mess.

Help your friend get her social stuff and confidence up. Don’t dwell on her ex, good riddance to him.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m 100% sure the DH was not pulling his weight, feigned incompetence to get out of things. Now that he has to do the job he has risen to the task but I’m sure was different in marriage.

+1. Men often step up when they are given no other choices, and also face the cold hard reality of what happens when no one picks up their slack.

Dollars to donuts he "did his best and let her do the rest" while married.

Single parenting is rough. She expected life to get easier when she was free of the dead weight. It's not easier to single parent, just different.

And since the world falls over swooning (like OP) when divorced dads pull 50% of their weight, it's salt in the wound as she's regarded as damaged goods.

I get why your friend is bitter, just saying.

The ex isn't pulling 50% of his weight. He is, apparently, pulling 100% of his weight 50% of the time.

As he should. The fact that you think this is notable is, in fact, notable, and proves PP's point.

I don't think it's notable, I'm merely correcting PP's misstatement.

In fact, I was supporting the point that PP made - it's different (and in many ways harder) to do 50% of the work in a relationship than it is to do all the work when you have kids half the time (and really have no choice).

And wow, you really (mis)read a lot into that point. Says a lot about you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I’m 100% sure the DH was not pulling his weight, feigned incompetence to get out of things. Now that he has to do the job he has risen to the task but I’m sure was different in marriage.

He will resort to the same laziness once a grandparent or girlfriend or new wife is in the room too. Checks out.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Hi OP - and hugs; I think you sound like a supportive and kind friend. I not get why so much hate is directed your way in this thread.

Maybe some of the people hating on you in this thread need education on their innate gender-biases? (they do not seem to recognize it).

Or if they are aware of innate gender bias, they need to work on that.

What has he done to be supportive and kind? He may be but nothing has been mentioned.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Hi OP - and hugs; I think you sound like a supportive and kind friend. I not get why so much hate is directed your way in this thread.

Maybe some of the people hating on you in this thread need education on their innate gender-biases? (they do not seem to recognize it).

Or if they are aware of innate gender bias, they need to work on that.

OP here.

We were housemates in college and in the same program. Twenty years later we find ourselves living in the same city. I've known them as a couple since they got married. Our kids are friends, which is why I've been to his house since they've been divorced.

Don't worry about the "hate." It's clear that this question has brought out a lot of projection from some very women very bitter about their own situation. There do seem to be a fair number of women invested in the narrative of the lazy, incompetent dad. I mean, that whole thing of "dad as a clueless idiot" is reinforced in popular media, so it's hardly surprising, even if it's some universal truth.

As to the quesiton about money, I don't know for sure but they earned roughly the same, so I'd be surprised if there was some huge disparity.

I don't think there was any cheating. At least, she didn't confess anything to me or complain that he strayed. It just sounds like one of these things where maybe she had had it. But maybe she is realizing she didn't have it so bad.

I'll just keep directing her to a therapist.

[Anonymous]

I think the question is -- what do you say to your friend when she's upset her ex-h is competent? I think the answer is that this is really the best for her kids, and what is she doing for herself and herself to be functional, happy, etc?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hi OP - and hugs; I think you sound like a supportive and kind friend. I not get why so much hate is directed your way in this thread.

Maybe some of the people hating on you in this thread need education on their innate gender-biases? (they do not seem to recognize it).

Or if they are aware of innate gender bias, they need to work on that.

OP here.

We were housemates in college and in the same program. Twenty years later we find ourselves living in the same city. I've known them as a couple since they got married. Our kids are friends, which is why I've been to his house since they've been divorced.

Don't worry about the "hate." It's clear that this question has brought out a lot of projection from some very women very bitter about their own situation. There do seem to be a fair number of women invested in the narrative of the lazy, incompetent dad. I mean, that whole thing of "dad as a clueless idiot" is reinforced in popular media, so it's hardly surprising, even if it's some universal truth.

As to the quesiton about money, I don't know for sure but they earned roughly the same, so I'd be surprised if there was some huge disparity.

I don't think there was any cheating. At least, she didn't confess anything to me or complain that he strayed. It just sounds like one of these things where maybe she had had it. But maybe she is realizing she didn't have it so bad.

I'll just keep directing her to a therapist.

You don’t believe your friend when she says the division of labor was unfair, you don’t believe women on DCUM posting their division of labor is unfair, you don’t believe the multiple research studies that show the division of labor is unfair …

sounds like someone is projecting, and it ain’t us!

stay away from her. you are no “friend.”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hi OP - and hugs; I think you sound like a supportive and kind friend. I not get why so much hate is directed your way in this thread.

Maybe some of the people hating on you in this thread need education on their innate gender-biases? (they do not seem to recognize it).

Or if they are aware of innate gender bias, they need to work on that.

OP here.

We were housemates in college and in the same program. Twenty years later we find ourselves living in the same city. I've known them as a couple since they got married. Our kids are friends, which is why I've been to his house since they've been divorced.

Don't worry about the "hate." It's clear that this question has brought out a lot of projection from some very women very bitter about their own situation. There do seem to be a fair number of women invested in the narrative of the lazy, incompetent dad. I mean, that whole thing of "dad as a clueless idiot" is reinforced in popular media, so it's hardly surprising, even if it's some universal truth.

As to the quesiton about money, I don't know for sure but they earned roughly the same, so I'd be surprised if there was some huge disparity.

I don't think there was any cheating. At least, she didn't confess anything to me or complain that he strayed. It just sounds like one of these things where maybe she had had it. But maybe she is realizing she didn't have it so bad.

I'll just keep directing her to a therapist.

Nothing you've posted points to her thinking this way, but it's clear you *want* her to have this takeaway. Many women have explained to you that having a husband do nothing around the house and then show he was always capable of doing things once divorced is worse than him being genuinely incompetent, but you keep thinking that what is being said in this thread is that all men are incompetent. You are not engaging in this thread in good faith and nothing about your posts says you're a "good friend" to the woman you've called miserable, obsessed, and a wreck.

You shouldn't wonder why you come across as the XH trolling that this proves women shouldn't complain about unfair household labor divisions.