Who should help take care of MIL? A very complicated family dynamic.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So what are YOU going to do, OP? Huh? So far, gossiping on the internet and woe-is-me isn’t getting anything done. What are you ACTUALLY willing to do, besides judge and shrug?

Tell us what you’re willing to do—talk to your husband, call a family meeting, care for MIL one weekend a season, what? Huh? What are you willing to do? Let’s start there.

No. It's not OP's responsibility. And if anything she'll be perceived as an interfering interloper. Leave it to the blood family and let the married couples navigate their relationships.

If OP's husband asks her to do something, or wants to do something, that is what OP can chime in on. If he asks her for an opinion, she can give it. But really she needs to MYOB.

Of course it's not OPs responsibility, but here she is trying to get involved when she should butt out.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:PAID CAREGIVERS.
Rotating basis.
Family members can supervise, FIL and SILs.

This is what my MIL with Parkinson’s has had for years. Her caregivers are loyal and caring. My oldest BIL supervises because he lives close by. My husband and I live far away but DH is a doctor and helps coordinate her medical care. And her youngest son drops in and lends a hand every now and then. The caregivers cook, clean, bathe, give meds, massages, and provide company.

Please push for this, the situation is really not fair to your SIL1.

Did your MIL (or BIL if he was in charge of the finances) tell you how much the caregivers cost?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm confused- who are their children? the sons or the daughters?

I believe the sons and that the sisters-in-law are OP and her DH's brothers' wives, but OP can confirm.

Correct, BIL1, SIL2 and my husband are the adult children.

BIL1 and SIL1 bought my inlaws house where they live with MIL and FIL.

So FIL and MIL have two sons and one daughter?

Or three sons?

Correct, two sons and one daughter.

Why is SIL1, who is not a daughter, responsible for taking care of MIL? That is crazy.

SIL1 agreed to buy the house with BIL1 because (her impression) is that she was doing BIL1 a favor because he wanted to take care of his parents. From my understanding, SIL1 and BIL1 were basically bailing out MIL1 and FIL1 who have been pulling home equity loans every 2-5 years over the past 20 years. The home purchase allowed the home to "stay in the family" which was BIL1 and FIL's wishes. It's been in the family for something like 80+ years. It should have been paid off 50+ years ago but there was snowballing home equity loans. There was very little home equity at the time of purchase and the actual value of the home was unknown because it hadn't been updated in 20+ years. The carpets are decades old.

SIL1, how she came to became the default caregiver, I don't know. BIL1 is very passive and wants to take care of his Dad. So he takes him on vacations and they do alot of things together. SIL1 just kind of accepts it and doesn't really speak out against it, up until very recently when the dynamic has shifted as it's been well over a year since they were supposed to move out and SIL1 is uncomfortable with needing to supervise MIL.

NP here. I think there are three different issues here.
1. There was a financial agreement between BIL1 and FIL for BIL1 to purchase the house and FIL to move to rural area. This agreement is not being followed, by mutual complicity between FIL and BIL1.
2. MIL needs access to healthcare and needs constant supervision.
3. There are unhealthy relationships/expectations between many members of this family, but I think the crux of this problem is BIL1. He is living in his childhood home, enjoying time with his father vacationing, and using his wife (SIL1) as unpaid labor to take care of his mother.

OP - I think you asked the wrong question. The responsibility for caring for MIL is ultimately FIL's. He may want help from others, but he cannot assign the task to his children, much less their spouses. Assuming all bio children do want to help, then they should decide together the schedule/amount of time each of the 4 people (FIL, OPDH, BIL1, SIL2) is responsible for. Then it is up to that person to decide HOW to fulfill their commitment (hire someone, cover themselves, have spouse cover per agreement with spouse). However, FIL's decision about where to live affects the amount and type of help available, and that decision depends on follow through on agreement with BIL1.

Which brings us to the real question. Does BIL1 want to remain married to SIL1? (In which case, move FIL & MIL to rural home and decide how to split care with siblings.) Or does he want to hang out with FIL in his childhood home and hire someone to watch MIL when they go on vacation?

Until BIL1 gets his act together, OPDH should keep his opinion to himself about what he thinks SIL2 should do.

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PAID CAREGIVERS.
Rotating basis.
Family members can supervise, FIL and SILs.

This is what my MIL with Parkinson’s has had for years. Her caregivers are loyal and caring. My oldest BIL supervises because he lives close by. My husband and I live far away but DH is a doctor and helps coordinate her medical care. And her youngest son drops in and lends a hand every now and then. The caregivers cook, clean, bathe, give meds, massages, and provide company.

Please push for this, the situation is really not fair to your SIL1.

Did your MIL (or BIL if he was in charge of the finances) tell you how much the caregivers cost?

No. But I know that MIL’s finances barely cover the caregiving costs, so her three sons need to contribute to her living expenses. Which we are all happy to do, not because we’re rich, but because she deserves it.

These caregivers are not official geriatric aides, so they’re probably not expensive. I doubt they’re licensed or whatever the term is. I don’t know what the tax situation is. My MIL chose them herself a decade ago when she recognized she would need extensive care, and there’s a relationship of trust. We all love them and treat them well. It’s really all thanks to MIL, who foresaw her decline and knows how to choose people.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PAID CAREGIVERS.
Rotating basis.
Family members can supervise, FIL and SILs.

This is what my MIL with Parkinson’s has had for years. Her caregivers are loyal and caring. My oldest BIL supervises because he lives close by. My husband and I live far away but DH is a doctor and helps coordinate her medical care. And her youngest son drops in and lends a hand every now and then. The caregivers cook, clean, bathe, give meds, massages, and provide company.

Please push for this, the situation is really not fair to your SIL1.

Did your MIL (or BIL if he was in charge of the finances) tell you how much the caregivers cost?

No. But I know that MIL’s finances barely cover the caregiving costs, so her three sons need to contribute to her living expenses. Which we are all happy to do, not because we’re rich, but because she deserves it.

These caregivers are not official geriatric aides, so they’re probably not expensive. I doubt they’re licensed or whatever the term is. I don’t know what the tax situation is. My MIL chose them herself a decade ago when she recognized she would need extensive care, and there’s a relationship of trust. We all love them and treat them well. It’s really all thanks to MIL, who foresaw her decline and knows how to choose people.

Well, not everyone is in a position where their elderly relative recognized they were declining and were able to carefully choose their own caregivers. It sometimes even gets to "crisis" mode before the elderly person will even agree to a caregiver. At that point the only options are very expensive licensed caregivers, or randos you find off Craigslist that will probably run type of scam.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You've posted before. You, your husband should fly in and help. Or, they should pay for help. She has every right to resent being a full time caregiver while you just sit back and post on public message boards about it. Get on a plane and help.

I’m pretty sure a similar scenario has been posted before but from the perspective of SIL1.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PAID CAREGIVERS.
Rotating basis.
Family members can supervise, FIL and SILs.

This is what my MIL with Parkinson’s has had for years. Her caregivers are loyal and caring. My oldest BIL supervises because he lives close by. My husband and I live far away but DH is a doctor and helps coordinate her medical care. And her youngest son drops in and lends a hand every now and then. The caregivers cook, clean, bathe, give meds, massages, and provide company.

Please push for this, the situation is really not fair to your SIL1.

Did your MIL (or BIL if he was in charge of the finances) tell you how much the caregivers cost?

No. But I know that MIL’s finances barely cover the caregiving costs, so her three sons need to contribute to her living expenses. Which we are all happy to do, not because we’re rich, but because she deserves it.

These caregivers are not official geriatric aides, so they’re probably not expensive. I doubt they’re licensed or whatever the term is. I don’t know what the tax situation is. My MIL chose them herself a decade ago when she recognized she would need extensive care, and there’s a relationship of trust. We all love them and treat them well. It’s really all thanks to MIL, who foresaw her decline and knows how to choose people.

Well, not everyone is in a position where their elderly relative recognized they were declining and were able to carefully choose their own caregivers. It sometimes even gets to "crisis" mode before the elderly person will even agree to a caregiver. At that point the only options are very expensive licensed caregivers, or randos you find off Craigslist that will probably run type of scam.

Why are making excuses? Relatives can also pick good people, not just the client. Otherwise SIL1 is going to bail, and I don’t blame her!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PAID CAREGIVERS.
Rotating basis.
Family members can supervise, FIL and SILs.

This is what my MIL with Parkinson’s has had for years. Her caregivers are loyal and caring. My oldest BIL supervises because he lives close by. My husband and I live far away but DH is a doctor and helps coordinate her medical care. And her youngest son drops in and lends a hand every now and then. The caregivers cook, clean, bathe, give meds, massages, and provide company.

Please push for this, the situation is really not fair to your SIL1.

Did your MIL (or BIL if he was in charge of the finances) tell you how much the caregivers cost?

No. But I know that MIL’s finances barely cover the caregiving costs, so her three sons need to contribute to her living expenses. Which we are all happy to do, not because we’re rich, but because she deserves it.

These caregivers are not official geriatric aides, so they’re probably not expensive. I doubt they’re licensed or whatever the term is. I don’t know what the tax situation is. My MIL chose them herself a decade ago when she recognized she would need extensive care, and there’s a relationship of trust. We all love them and treat them well. It’s really all thanks to MIL, who foresaw her decline and knows how to choose people.

Well, not everyone is in a position where their elderly relative recognized they were declining and were able to carefully choose their own caregivers. It sometimes even gets to "crisis" mode before the elderly person will even agree to a caregiver. At that point the only options are very expensive licensed caregivers, or randos you find off Craigslist that will probably run type of scam.

Why are making excuses? Relatives can also pick good people, not just the client. Otherwise SIL1 is going to bail, and I don’t blame her!

good people are expensive. It doesn't sound like OP's in laws have the money for that.

[Anonymous]

SIL2 should threaten divorce or move.
FIL is an ass, it appears he does the least for his wife.

[Anonymous]

MIL is going to need long term care way sooner than 10 years in the future.

The FIL needs to figure out how to care for his wife. If he does not want to care for her, it's time for her to get a bed in a place that accepts Medicaid so she can stay after her assets are spent down.

Home care aides, even non professional ones, are incredibly expensive.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You all need to sit down and hash this out, OP. Most likely, they need to hire caregivers and find their own place to live. Moving MIL to a rural area isn’t a great idea *unless* there is outstanding medical care nearby - usually not the case, but there are are exceptions.

Generally, too much is being expected of the women in this situation.

OP here -

They do have somewhere to live. They can live at their second property which is about 10 minutes away from a small community hospital. There are specialists and primary care doctors in the area. It is a small area but there is resources available.

But why should they move away from their kids??? This sounds like a terrible plan

[Anonymous]

I don’t think your FIL will do this, but you might consider suggesting it to your DH-

Sell the vacation property. Use the proceeds to buy a small condo (in a more affordable section of town). Your MiL can’t use it and frankly they need the money. Hire paid caregivers. It doesn’t have to be paid medical sides at this point, but it might be soon. Your MIL needs to be near her team of providers. I’m fairly certain that this will be a hard no from your FIL though. I’m reading between the lines, but it sounds like your FIL grew up with inherited wealth, but didn’t make much or save much of his own so he’s spent down what should have been saved for retirement/chronic health conditions.

For you OP- I know you don’t have a lot of input, but you really need to tell your DH to cut the crap with assuming his sister should take over the duties because she either owes them or because she’s a daughter or both.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Um, can you clarify how your husband helps, directly? Can you clarify how you help, directly? Because unless I missed something, your husband does literally nothing to help, and neither do you, so he has absolutely no leg to stand on in thinking SIL2 should "step in and help" when he himself doesn't lift a damn finger, and neither do you.

OP here -

He did, on and off for about 10 years. He lived at home occasionally to help before I met him and while my MIL only had episodes every now and then (maybe once a month or so), he would be there to hold MIL's hand and take her to the hospital. He helped significantly with bills and paid rent while my FIL went down from two incomes to once. Before SIL1 moved in, my husband would go over if my FIL was out of town and he would check on MIL and bring her food. He doesn't anymore since BIL1 and SIL1 has moved in.

I would like to help. But I have a small child and am alone myself when my husband is gone - I don't have any local siblings and one of my parents is deceased, the other is disabled and lives with their spouse. I can help with finding resources for caregiving or discussing, finding an estate planner or applying for benefits. I can't really help with any hands on caregiving, I have no one who could watch my son when my husband is gone.

It sounds like SIL1 is burned out, and SIL2 is not really involved. If either or both were appreciative of having you spot them out so they could take a break from MIL duties and would watch your child for you, would you be willing to do that?

My guess is no (although maybe you would surprise me). If so, let's be frank about boundaries and the real reasons behind them. You wouldn't be helping anyone by giving a reason that's just an excuse, not a reason -- if it isn't the real reason or boundary, it's going to catch up with you when someone gets creative and pushes the point.

And let me be clear -- I think it's totally okay for you to say "nope, not available" in this situation. *Not* just because "oh, I can't because of nobody to watch my child," but just because it is not your problem to solve.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think she needs professional caregivers.

+1. And a full family discussion regarding the resources that will be needed to accomplish that. It's not fair to burden one child/IL with all the caregiving just because they didn't have children.

+2

Sounds like there’s plenty of resources to go around, and it’s not fair to just dump MIL on SIL1 because they can.

If I were SIL1 I, too, would be pissed at the bait and switch.

I’m also annoyed by how much sexism there is baked into the premise that SIL2 should step up - she works full-time and has kids. In any case it’s not anyone’s true responsibilities outside of FIL, who indeed is absconding on his obligations.

OP here -

It's a suggestion my husband has thrown out. I think he feels like SIL2 (and BIL2) should help since they lived the closest and MIL provided full-time care to her kids before they went to school, neither had to go to daycare. There's actually currently *zero* pressure on SIL2 from my FIL or anyone in the family, it hasn't been formally discussed at all.

THEIR children, not her children. WTAF with you OP?! You are just as bad as the FIL and all the sons (including your husband). Gross.

[Anonymous]

PS: the real baseline of this appears to be that FIL has made a series of questionable decisions without planning for quite foreseeable consequences, and he plans on continuing to make irresponsible decisions because he wants to be happy in his last years, not tied down and miserable. He is going to do this by complicity with his son effectively to tie down SIL1 and make her life miserable, leaving her (eventually) unhappy at the end of her life and without the means to live life on her own terms then.

Eff that ess. Team SIL-doesn't-wait. No kids? She has a moral obligation to walk away from this NOW.

Again, I don't think OP should shoulder this in any way. (I also think she needs to refrain from saying she would, "if only XYZ" -- because someone is going to offer her XYZ eventually.) Agree that the biological children and the FIL need to make a plan to share this responsibility, and do it. And BIL1 needs to do that without involving SIL1, who needs to be doing exactly what she wants very far away from the rest of this crew.