Couples therapy and mandatory reporting

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am a therapist. This would have to be reported.

And I agree with the PP, this should not be your biggest concern.

What? Because he grabbed the kid? God help our culture if we think it's better to lock up a parent or divorce him because he grabbed his kid too hard in a moment of frustration. Where is the compassion? Where is the proportionality? It really doesn't sound like he was trying to hurt the kid. Maybe he didn't realize how much force he was applying. Maybe he didn't realize the point at which he woudl leave a mark. And what's "a mark," anyway - a bruise? The slight discoloration in skin that comes from pressure or heat and then dissipates after a few seconds? As long as he now acknowledges that he squeezed too tight, I think everyone needs to get over it.

+10000

I am a different poster and agree with this. It’s legal to spank your kids. He needs better emotional regulation but this isn’t CPS-worthy IMO. And I am a mandated reporter and have reported to CPS before.

Then you do not know what you are doing. I am also a mandated reporter and leaving marks always requires a report. PP, maybe you should think about changing professions.

As someone said above, there are marks and there are marks. Grabbing a child even non-abusively will leave brief red marks. If we are talking about bruises visible hours later that is a different story. But considering none of us here has even seen the photos I think you’re the one jumping to conclusions.

Exactly. If my child was headed for the street and I grabbed his arm to stop him from being run over, the potential to leave a mark is there, maybe even a bruise. Other parent could disagree and say Larlo would have listened to the word 'no' so grabbing his arm was wrong. Mandatory reporter could then report to CPS, and some CPS worker with a chip on his/her shoulder could consider action abusive.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:CPS can do more traumatic damage to this kid in a week of foster care than this father will do for her entire childhood. This guy grabbed her once and was concerned enough about it to agree to go to family therapy. Much better to be with a father like that than roll the dice with strangers in foster care

Correct. The damage done to my kids when I was reported for suspected child abuse by husband who wanted a divorce but didn't want me to have any rights to kids or money, was horrendous. My kids were not removed, I was not arrested, because it was clear to the CPS worker that my husband/inlaws were lying. I could have left with the kids right then and there had I wanted to. Instead, I settled for winning the battle. The war is TBD, but it's been fun knowing that they were found out and could have been arrested themselves.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am a therapist. This would have to be reported.

And I agree with the PP, this should not be your biggest concern.

What? Because he grabbed the kid? God help our culture if we think it's better to lock up a parent or divorce him because he grabbed his kid too hard in a moment of frustration. Where is the compassion? Where is the proportionality? It really doesn't sound like he was trying to hurt the kid. Maybe he didn't realize how much force he was applying. Maybe he didn't realize the point at which he woudl leave a mark. And what's "a mark," anyway - a bruise? The slight discoloration in skin that comes from pressure or heat and then dissipates after a few seconds? As long as he now acknowledges that he squeezed too tight, I think everyone needs to get over it.

+10000

I am a different poster and agree with this. It’s legal to spank your kids. He needs better emotional regulation but this isn’t CPS-worthy IMO. And I am a mandated reporter and have reported to CPS before.

Then you do not know what you are doing. I am also a mandated reporter and leaving marks always requires a report. PP, maybe you should think about changing professions.

As someone said above, there are marks and there are marks. Grabbing a child even non-abusively will leave brief red marks. If we are talking about bruises visible hours later that is a different story. But considering none of us here has even seen the photos I think you’re the one jumping to conclusions.

Exactly. If my child was headed for the street and I grabbed his arm to stop him from being run over, the potential to leave a mark is there, maybe even a bruise. Other parent could disagree and say Larlo would have listened to the word 'no' so grabbing his arm was wrong. Mandatory reporter could then report to CPS, and some CPS worker with a chip on his/her shoulder could consider action abusive.

Ok so in a worst case scenario a CPS investigation is started and since you have nothing to hide and don’t routinely bruise your child (right?) it’s an annoyance and potentially an expense.

A mandatory reporter ignores those bruises and loses their job and a kid potentially loses their life. Why is that a preferable outcome to you?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I left a bruise on my then toddler holding her down trying to get her dressed for school mid tantrum. That’s totally normal toddler behavior, right? So I’m a bad mom and should have been investigated by CPS?

Lady you're not making the point you think you're making.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I left a bruise on my then toddler holding her down trying to get her dressed for school mid tantrum. That’s totally normal toddler behavior, right? So I’m a bad mom and should have been investigated by CPS?

Lady you're not making the point you think you're making.

Yeah that is something I’d feel terrible about and never talk about flippantly like that.

[Anonymous]

Just wanted to add that my father was physical with me when he was angry and my mother did nothing. I am in my fifties and have still not forgiven her. (Not that she asked.)

I have spent years in therapy trying to understand why my mother did not protect me.

I have very little to do with her now. (Dad is dead).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am a therapist. This would have to be reported.

And I agree with the PP, this should not be your biggest concern.

What? Because he grabbed the kid? God help our culture if we think it's better to lock up a parent or divorce him because he grabbed his kid too hard in a moment of frustration. Where is the compassion? Where is the proportionality? It really doesn't sound like he was trying to hurt the kid. Maybe he didn't realize how much force he was applying. Maybe he didn't realize the point at which he woudl leave a mark. And what's "a mark," anyway - a bruise? The slight discoloration in skin that comes from pressure or heat and then dissipates after a few seconds? As long as he now acknowledges that he squeezed too tight, I think everyone needs to get over it.

+10000

I am a different poster and agree with this. It’s legal to spank your kids. He needs better emotional regulation but this isn’t CPS-worthy IMO. And I am a mandated reporter and have reported to CPS before.

Then you do not know what you are doing. I am also a mandated reporter and leaving marks always requires a report. PP, maybe you should think about changing professions.

As someone said above, there are marks and there are marks. Grabbing a child even non-abusively will leave brief red marks. If we are talking about bruises visible hours later that is a different story. But considering none of us here has even seen the photos I think you’re the one jumping to conclusions.

Exactly. If my child was headed for the street and I grabbed his arm to stop him from being run over, the potential to leave a mark is there, maybe even a bruise. Other parent could disagree and say Larlo would have listened to the word 'no' so grabbing his arm was wrong. Mandatory reporter could then report to CPS, and some CPS worker with a chip on his/her shoulder could consider action abusive.

But-your dc would have marks/bruise on his arm, which is consistent with your story of grabbing him at the street. OP's kid's marks are on the NECK. I can't think of a scenario where a parent grabs a child's NECK to keep them safe. And CPS knows this!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am a therapist. This would have to be reported.

And I agree with the PP, this should not be your biggest concern.

What? Because he grabbed the kid? God help our culture if we think it's better to lock up a parent or divorce him because he grabbed his kid too hard in a moment of frustration. Where is the compassion? Where is the proportionality? It really doesn't sound like he was trying to hurt the kid. Maybe he didn't realize how much force he was applying. Maybe he didn't realize the point at which he woudl leave a mark. And what's "a mark," anyway - a bruise? The slight discoloration in skin that comes from pressure or heat and then dissipates after a few seconds? As long as he now acknowledges that he squeezed too tight, I think everyone needs to get over it.

+10000

I am a different poster and agree with this. It’s legal to spank your kids. He needs better emotional regulation but this isn’t CPS-worthy IMO. And I am a mandated reporter and have reported to CPS before.

Then you do not know what you are doing. I am also a mandated reporter and leaving marks always requires a report. PP, maybe you should think about changing professions.

As someone said above, there are marks and there are marks. Grabbing a child even non-abusively will leave brief red marks. If we are talking about bruises visible hours later that is a different story. But considering none of us here has even seen the photos I think you’re the one jumping to conclusions.

Exactly. If my child was headed for the street and I grabbed his arm to stop him from being run over, the potential to leave a mark is there, maybe even a bruise. Other parent could disagree and say Larlo would have listened to the word 'no' so grabbing his arm was wrong. Mandatory reporter could then report to CPS, and some CPS worker with a chip on his/her shoulder could consider action abusive.

But-your dc would have marks/bruise on his arm, which is consistent with your story of grabbing him at the street. OP's kid's marks are on the NECK. I can't think of a scenario where a parent grabs a child's NECK to keep them safe. And CPS knows this!

I think you might be confusing this for another thread with an abusive DH, I don’t think this OP specified her DH grabbed her daughter by the neck. But I think a therapist would (should) report either way.

[Anonymous]

People can get locked up now for spanking their kids. It’s a new day when it comes to disciplining children.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am a therapist. This would have to be reported.

And I agree with the PP, this should not be your biggest concern.

What? Because he grabbed the kid? God help our culture if we think it's better to lock up a parent or divorce him because he grabbed his kid too hard in a moment of frustration. Where is the compassion? Where is the proportionality? It really doesn't sound like he was trying to hurt the kid. Maybe he didn't realize how much force he was applying. Maybe he didn't realize the point at which he woudl leave a mark. And what's "a mark," anyway - a bruise? The slight discoloration in skin that comes from pressure or heat and then dissipates after a few seconds? As long as he now acknowledges that he squeezed too tight, I think everyone needs to get over it.

+10000

I am a different poster and agree with this. It’s legal to spank your kids. He needs better emotional regulation but this isn’t CPS-worthy IMO. And I am a mandated reporter and have reported to CPS before.

Then you do not know what you are doing. I am also a mandated reporter and leaving marks always requires a report. PP, maybe you should think about changing professions.

As someone said above, there are marks and there are marks. Grabbing a child even non-abusively will leave brief red marks. If we are talking about bruises visible hours later that is a different story. But considering none of us here has even seen the photos I think you’re the one jumping to conclusions.

Exactly. If my child was headed for the street and I grabbed his arm to stop him from being run over, the potential to leave a mark is there, maybe even a bruise. Other parent could disagree and say Larlo would have listened to the word 'no' so grabbing his arm was wrong. Mandatory reporter could then report to CPS, and some CPS worker with a chip on his/her shoulder could consider action abusive.

But-your dc would have marks/bruise on his arm, which is consistent with your story of grabbing him at the street. OP's kid's marks are on the NECK. I can't think of a scenario where a parent grabs a child's NECK to keep them safe. And CPS knows this!

I think you might be confusing this for another thread with an abusive DH, I don’t think this OP specified her DH grabbed her daughter by the neck. But I think a therapist would (should) report either way.

PP here- yes, I believe you are correct, I confused threads. I think I am so shocked by both threads that it's blurring together.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, get your husband in individual therapy. He doesn't need to disclose this incident in detail to his therapist. He can tell the therapist he wants to work on anger management toward his family. In addition to therapy, I'd do parenting classes together so you can both learn strategies and reinforce them.

+1.

I haven't posted on this thread before because it's so one-sided.

Yes, this incident was serious but I feel like it's missing the forest for the trees that this man WANTS HELP. His spouse wants to support him and learn something herself. If we are all being real, even if OP left her husband today and filed for divorce it's almost guaranteed that he could complete a parenting class mandated by a court and have 50% custody. That's just the plain, honest truth.

OP, I'd go and probably tell a modified version to the therapist for the sole purpose of facilitating the therapy and I'd make that crystal clear to your husband. You can find a post a day about men with anger problems in this forum. Yes, the best thing would have been not to marry or procreate with these men, but here we are. If one of them wants to get therapy and not have anger issues then I'd work to make that happen.

Who is saying he can’t get help? He should also be reported to CPS for the protection of the child. Two things can happen at once. CPS will document and he’ll get help. If it continues there will already be a record. Seems win win for the child but I think there are posters here more concerned about protecting the adult.

PP here - subjecting myself and my kids to CPS would be a last resort. I wouldn't do it in this circumstance.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am a therapist. This would have to be reported.

And I agree with the PP, this should not be your biggest concern.

What? Because he grabbed the kid? God help our culture if we think it's better to lock up a parent or divorce him because he grabbed his kid too hard in a moment of frustration. Where is the compassion? Where is the proportionality? It really doesn't sound like he was trying to hurt the kid. Maybe he didn't realize how much force he was applying. Maybe he didn't realize the point at which he woudl leave a mark. And what's "a mark," anyway - a bruise? The slight discoloration in skin that comes from pressure or heat and then dissipates after a few seconds? As long as he now acknowledges that he squeezed too tight, I think everyone needs to get over it.

+10000

I am a different poster and agree with this. It’s legal to spank your kids. He needs better emotional regulation but this isn’t CPS-worthy IMO. And I am a mandated reporter and have reported to CPS before.

Totally agree. This would be a waste of CPS’s time and a disservice to kids that are actually abused.

As a person who was abused as a child, I disagree. The physical marks pale in comparison to the emotional marks left by being accosted by a much larger, powerful parent. This is just the latest incident. Physical marks are simply one manifestation of the abuse, one that is easy to prove. The emotional, well, that leaves an invisible, permanent mark.

Relationship counseling isn't going to help with anger management nor will it undo the damage already inflicted on her kids. Yet, that's her focus.

Be that as it may, CPS is not going to do anything about the intimidation part, which he is already seeking help for. I’m not sure why you think that joint counseling won’t help him with anger management. It’s entirely possible that the couple’s counselor will recommend anger management for him. It’s also virtually guaranteed that if the first thing the counselor does is call CPS that that will pull the plug on him seeking help unless it’s court-ordered, which is a whole other level of events (that this incident would not trigger anyway).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am a therapist. This would have to be reported.

And I agree with the PP, this should not be your biggest concern.

What? Because he grabbed the kid? God help our culture if we think it's better to lock up a parent or divorce him because he grabbed his kid too hard in a moment of frustration. Where is the compassion? Where is the proportionality? It really doesn't sound like he was trying to hurt the kid. Maybe he didn't realize how much force he was applying. Maybe he didn't realize the point at which he woudl leave a mark. And what's "a mark," anyway - a bruise? The slight discoloration in skin that comes from pressure or heat and then dissipates after a few seconds? As long as he now acknowledges that he squeezed too tight, I think everyone needs to get over it.

+10000

I am a different poster and agree with this. It’s legal to spank your kids. He needs better emotional regulation but this isn’t CPS-worthy IMO. And I am a mandated reporter and have reported to CPS before.

Agree. DH needs help and I’d be furious but this is not CPS-worthy on its own.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am a therapist. This would have to be reported.

And I agree with the PP, this should not be your biggest concern.

What? Because he grabbed the kid? God help our culture if we think it's better to lock up a parent or divorce him because he grabbed his kid too hard in a moment of frustration. Where is the compassion? Where is the proportionality? It really doesn't sound like he was trying to hurt the kid. Maybe he didn't realize how much force he was applying. Maybe he didn't realize the point at which he woudl leave a mark. And what's "a mark," anyway - a bruise? The slight discoloration in skin that comes from pressure or heat and then dissipates after a few seconds? As long as he now acknowledges that he squeezed too tight, I think everyone needs to get over it.

+10000

I am a different poster and agree with this. It’s legal to spank your kids. He needs better emotional regulation but this isn’t CPS-worthy IMO. And I am a mandated reporter and have reported to CPS before.

Each state is different, but in DC and MD where I've been a mandated reporter, it's not legal to spank your kid, or otherwise physically discipline your kid (which is what this is about) in a way that leaves bruises.

A therapist or teacher or other professional could lose their career if something like this isn't reported.

Since this was neither spanking nor bruises, doesn’t sound like that’s at issue here.

Generally when people say there were "marks" they mean bruises. What other kind of marks from physical punishment (again, this is what this is) last long enough to be photographed?

If people say bruise they mean bruise. If people say mark they likely mean a red mark that disappears after a little while with no bruising.

JFC listen to yourself. You are really sitting here saying, "Oh well since you grabbed your kid hard enough to leave red marks, but not hard enough to bruise, it's fine!" It's not fine.

"Marks and bruises" is the term used in CPS training, which includes pictures of various marks and bruises so that people working for CPS can identify abusive contact when it happens. Grabbing or pinching a child hard enough to leave bruises is abuse that I personally substantiated multiple people for, even in the absence of other abuse. Because what he did IS abuse, at least in the District of Columbia, based on how the OP described it. Sorry you do not like facts.

You are painting everything with the same brush and totally missing the point that this is simply not a situation in which a shield is being systematically abused. Do you think CPS is there to track and supervise and monitor and help prosecute people who on one very bad day make a mistake they regret, acknowledge and seek help for? They aren’t. They’re there to identify abused children. I get it, you aren’t trained to differentiate, and it shows. But you also should have the mental flexibility to understand that the guidelines are created to take responsibility off the reporter and therefore can catch a lot of things in their dragnet that are simply not why the agency exists to intervene in. If you can understand the difference you can understand why some people are saying that for where they are on the spectrum their current intervention (private counseling, not agency inquisition) is appropriate.

[Anonymous]

^child