Couples therapy and mandatory reporting

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, get your husband in individual therapy. He doesn't need to disclose this incident in detail to his therapist. He can tell the therapist he wants to work on anger management toward his family. In addition to therapy, I'd do parenting classes together so you can both learn strategies and reinforce them.

+1.

I haven't posted on this thread before because it's so one-sided.

Yes, this incident was serious but I feel like it's missing the forest for the trees that this man WANTS HELP. His spouse wants to support him and learn something herself. If we are all being real, even if OP left her husband today and filed for divorce it's almost guaranteed that he could complete a parenting class mandated by a court and have 50% custody. That's just the plain, honest truth.

OP, I'd go and probably tell a modified version to the therapist for the sole purpose of facilitating the therapy and I'd make that crystal clear to your husband. You can find a post a day about men with anger problems in this forum. Yes, the best thing would have been not to marry or procreate with these men, but here we are. If one of them wants to get therapy and not have anger issues then I'd work to make that happen.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am a therapist. This would have to be reported.

And I agree with the PP, this should not be your biggest concern.

What? Because he grabbed the kid? God help our culture if we think it's better to lock up a parent or divorce him because he grabbed his kid too hard in a moment of frustration. Where is the compassion? Where is the proportionality? It really doesn't sound like he was trying to hurt the kid. Maybe he didn't realize how much force he was applying. Maybe he didn't realize the point at which he woudl leave a mark. And what's "a mark," anyway - a bruise? The slight discoloration in skin that comes from pressure or heat and then dissipates after a few seconds? As long as he now acknowledges that he squeezed too tight, I think everyone needs to get over it.

I know. It is ridiculous. Kid was screaming inside, and parents aren't supposed to be able to do anything about it.

Well, it is pretty ridiculous that the only thing OP's DH thought to do about it was grab the kid hard enough to leave marks. It's a reflection of his limited capability to respond - it's actually scary that a grown man couldn't find any other way than to get physical. I can think of plenty of many other ways to respond that would have been appropriate.

Yes, it’s so exactly the same to be sitting at a keyboard contemplating ways to respond when you are not in the situation as it is to be the parent in the moment and in the presence of said screaming kid

Ah yes! This must be the first child that ever screamed in all human history that no one has ever thought of a way to respond without violence! If only there were literally entire books written about how to respond to children correctly…we could keep them in parenting sections of libraries and bookstores! We could have whole articles on positive parenting techniques taking up tons of the internet. But no this helpless man encountered the worlds first screaming child.

Said the woman who has never ever lost her cool with a child. Cause that never ever happens with good parents.

Lost my cool with my child? Sure. I kissed her and put her safely in her crib and *I* left the room for five minutes because her screaming was making me feel out of control. It is, in fact, what parenting books and pediatricians and even the internet all tell you to do with a screaming child.

You’re right about one thing— good parents do not “lose their cool” the way OPs husband did.

Yes and you have never raised your voice not even once.

Why are you so invested in this idea that what the OP did is fine? Raising your voice— which is something I have done only in emergent situations such as running toward a street— is not the same as grabbing a child behaving normally (children scream…) so hard you leave marks on them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, get your husband in individual therapy. He doesn't need to disclose this incident in detail to his therapist. He can tell the therapist he wants to work on anger management toward his family. In addition to therapy, I'd do parenting classes together so you can both learn strategies and reinforce them.

+1.

I haven't posted on this thread before because it's so one-sided.

Yes, this incident was serious but I feel like it's missing the forest for the trees that this man WANTS HELP. His spouse wants to support him and learn something herself. If we are all being real, even if OP left her husband today and filed for divorce it's almost guaranteed that he could complete a parenting class mandated by a court and have 50% custody. That's just the plain, honest truth.

OP, I'd go and probably tell a modified version to the therapist for the sole purpose of facilitating the therapy and I'd make that crystal clear to your husband. You can find a post a day about men with anger problems in this forum. Yes, the best thing would have been not to marry or procreate with these men, but here we are. If one of them wants to get therapy and not have anger issues then I'd work to make that happen.

Who is saying he can’t get help? He should also be reported to CPS for the protection of the child. Two things can happen at once. CPS will document and he’ll get help. If it continues there will already be a record. Seems win win for the child but I think there are posters here more concerned about protecting the adult.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am a therapist. This would have to be reported.

And I agree with the PP, this should not be your biggest concern.

What? Because he grabbed the kid? God help our culture if we think it's better to lock up a parent or divorce him because he grabbed his kid too hard in a moment of frustration. Where is the compassion? Where is the proportionality? It really doesn't sound like he was trying to hurt the kid. Maybe he didn't realize how much force he was applying. Maybe he didn't realize the point at which he woudl leave a mark. And what's "a mark," anyway - a bruise? The slight discoloration in skin that comes from pressure or heat and then dissipates after a few seconds? As long as he now acknowledges that he squeezed too tight, I think everyone needs to get over it.

I know. It is ridiculous. Kid was screaming inside, and parents aren't supposed to be able to do anything about it.

Well, it is pretty ridiculous that the only thing OP's DH thought to do about it was grab the kid hard enough to leave marks. It's a reflection of his limited capability to respond - it's actually scary that a grown man couldn't find any other way than to get physical. I can think of plenty of many other ways to respond that would have been appropriate.

Yes, it’s so exactly the same to be sitting at a keyboard contemplating ways to respond when you are not in the situation as it is to be the parent in the moment and in the presence of said screaming kid

Ah yes! This must be the first child that ever screamed in all human history that no one has ever thought of a way to respond without violence! If only there were literally entire books written about how to respond to children correctly…we could keep them in parenting sections of libraries and bookstores! We could have whole articles on positive parenting techniques taking up tons of the internet. But no this helpless man encountered the worlds first screaming child.

Said the woman who has never ever lost her cool with a child. Cause that never ever happens with good parents.

Lost my cool with my child? Sure. I kissed her and put her safely in her crib and *I* left the room for five minutes because her screaming was making me feel out of control. It is, in fact, what parenting books and pediatricians and even the internet all tell you to do with a screaming child.

You’re right about one thing— good parents do not “lose their cool” the way OPs husband did.

Yes and you have never raised your voice not even once.

Why are you so invested in this idea that what the OP did is fine? Raising your voice— which is something I have done only in emergent situations such as running toward a street— is not the same as grabbing a child behaving normally (children scream…) so hard you leave marks on them.

I didn’t say it was fine. I said it was within the realm of normal or wrong mistakes and does not warrant an abuse report and investigation that can have massive legal and emotional consequences for their family.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am a therapist. This would have to be reported.

And I agree with the PP, this should not be your biggest concern.

What? Because he grabbed the kid? God help our culture if we think it's better to lock up a parent or divorce him because he grabbed his kid too hard in a moment of frustration. Where is the compassion? Where is the proportionality? It really doesn't sound like he was trying to hurt the kid. Maybe he didn't realize how much force he was applying. Maybe he didn't realize the point at which he woudl leave a mark. And what's "a mark," anyway - a bruise? The slight discoloration in skin that comes from pressure or heat and then dissipates after a few seconds? As long as he now acknowledges that he squeezed too tight, I think everyone needs to get over it.

+10000

I am a different poster and agree with this. It’s legal to spank your kids. He needs better emotional regulation but this isn’t CPS-worthy IMO. And I am a mandated reporter and have reported to CPS before.

Totally agree. This would be a waste of CPS’s time and a disservice to kids that are actually abused.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am a therapist. This would have to be reported.

And I agree with the PP, this should not be your biggest concern.

What? Because he grabbed the kid? God help our culture if we think it's better to lock up a parent or divorce him because he grabbed his kid too hard in a moment of frustration. Where is the compassion? Where is the proportionality? It really doesn't sound like he was trying to hurt the kid. Maybe he didn't realize how much force he was applying. Maybe he didn't realize the point at which he woudl leave a mark. And what's "a mark," anyway - a bruise? The slight discoloration in skin that comes from pressure or heat and then dissipates after a few seconds? As long as he now acknowledges that he squeezed too tight, I think everyone needs to get over it.

+10000

I am a different poster and agree with this. It’s legal to spank your kids. He needs better emotional regulation but this isn’t CPS-worthy IMO. And I am a mandated reporter and have reported to CPS before.

Totally agree. This would be a waste of CPS’s time and a disservice to kids that are actually abused.

As a person who was abused as a child, I disagree. The physical marks pale in comparison to the emotional marks left by being accosted by a much larger, powerful parent. This is just the latest incident. Physical marks are simply one manifestation of the abuse, one that is easy to prove. The emotional, well, that leaves an invisible, permanent mark.

Relationship counseling isn't going to help with anger management nor will it undo the damage already inflicted on her kids. Yet, that's her focus.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am a therapist. This would have to be reported.

And I agree with the PP, this should not be your biggest concern.

What? Because he grabbed the kid? God help our culture if we think it's better to lock up a parent or divorce him because he grabbed his kid too hard in a moment of frustration. Where is the compassion? Where is the proportionality? It really doesn't sound like he was trying to hurt the kid. Maybe he didn't realize how much force he was applying. Maybe he didn't realize the point at which he woudl leave a mark. And what's "a mark," anyway - a bruise? The slight discoloration in skin that comes from pressure or heat and then dissipates after a few seconds? As long as he now acknowledges that he squeezed too tight, I think everyone needs to get over it.

+10000

I am a different poster and agree with this. It’s legal to spank your kids. He needs better emotional regulation but this isn’t CPS-worthy IMO. And I am a mandated reporter and have reported to CPS before.

Each state is different, but in DC and MD where I've been a mandated reporter, it's not legal to spank your kid, or otherwise physically discipline your kid (which is what this is about) in a way that leaves bruises.

A therapist or teacher or other professional could lose their career if something like this isn't reported.

Since this was neither spanking nor bruises, doesn’t sound like that’s at issue here.

Generally when people say there were "marks" they mean bruises. What other kind of marks from physical punishment (again, this is what this is) last long enough to be photographed?

If people say bruise they mean bruise. If people say mark they likely mean a red mark that disappears after a little while with no bruising.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Biggest concern is protecting the abuser?

Uh no. It’s not ruining the parents life and destroying a family over what is likely a minor event.

Thanks, ass. I’m the PP whose father did this to her many times in her life and her parents hid it to “protect him.” I hope you realize that you will probably rot in hell for not realizing how damaging and wrong it is for an adult to act out in violence toward a child. It is never okay. Do not minimize it. That is messed up. I am guessing you have hit your kids and are trying to justify it.

I’m sorry about what happened to you. No one is saying this is okay, including the father who did it. That’s why he agreed to counseling. But it doesn’t mean the state needs to investigate it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, get your husband in individual therapy. He doesn't need to disclose this incident in detail to his therapist. He can tell the therapist he wants to work on anger management toward his family. In addition to therapy, I'd do parenting classes together so you can both learn strategies and reinforce them.

+1.

I haven't posted on this thread before because it's so one-sided.

Yes, this incident was serious but I feel like it's missing the forest for the trees that this man WANTS HELP. His spouse wants to support him and learn something herself. If we are all being real, even if OP left her husband today and filed for divorce it's almost guaranteed that he could complete a parenting class mandated by a court and have 50% custody. That's just the plain, honest truth.

OP, I'd go and probably tell a modified version to the therapist for the sole purpose of facilitating the therapy and I'd make that crystal clear to your husband. You can find a post a day about men with anger problems in this forum. Yes, the best thing would have been not to marry or procreate with these men, but here we are. If one of them wants to get therapy and not have anger issues then I'd work to make that happen.

Who is saying he can’t get help? He should also be reported to CPS for the protection of the child. Two things can happen at once. CPS will document and he’ll get help. If it continues there will already be a record. Seems win win for the child but I think there are posters here more concerned about protecting the adult.

I have done individual therapy for (among other things) emotional regulation and I have done couples therapy. I learned and practiced different skills for each type of therapy. They were both time-consuming and emotionally demanding. If you are going to change through therapy you have to be committed and I don’t know many people who are tagging their feet to get into therapy who would be committed to transforming both their internal and relational spheres of life. More importantly, couples therapy is much easier when you know how to be emotionally regulated.

But sure if OP’s husband has it in him to do both individual and couples simultaneously, that’s great.

I do think that he and OP should be honest about what happened (although I don’t think showing the picture is necessary if her husband admits that it was bad), but I think that if the options are minimizing the incident and going to therapy or not going at all, they should minimize the incident and go.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am a therapist. This would have to be reported.

And I agree with the PP, this should not be your biggest concern.

What? Because he grabbed the kid? God help our culture if we think it's better to lock up a parent or divorce him because he grabbed his kid too hard in a moment of frustration. Where is the compassion? Where is the proportionality? It really doesn't sound like he was trying to hurt the kid. Maybe he didn't realize how much force he was applying. Maybe he didn't realize the point at which he woudl leave a mark. And what's "a mark," anyway - a bruise? The slight discoloration in skin that comes from pressure or heat and then dissipates after a few seconds? As long as he now acknowledges that he squeezed too tight, I think everyone needs to get over it.

+10000

I am a different poster and agree with this. It’s legal to spank your kids. He needs better emotional regulation but this isn’t CPS-worthy IMO. And I am a mandated reporter and have reported to CPS before.

Each state is different, but in DC and MD where I've been a mandated reporter, it's not legal to spank your kid, or otherwise physically discipline your kid (which is what this is about) in a way that leaves bruises.

A therapist or teacher or other professional could lose their career if something like this isn't reported.

Since this was neither spanking nor bruises, doesn’t sound like that’s at issue here.

Generally when people say there were "marks" they mean bruises. What other kind of marks from physical punishment (again, this is what this is) last long enough to be photographed?

If people say bruise they mean bruise. If people say mark they likely mean a red mark that disappears after a little while with no bruising.

JFC listen to yourself. You are really sitting here saying, "Oh well since you grabbed your kid hard enough to leave red marks, but not hard enough to bruise, it's fine!" It's not fine.

"Marks and bruises" is the term used in CPS training, which includes pictures of various marks and bruises so that people working for CPS can identify abusive contact when it happens. Grabbing or pinching a child hard enough to leave bruises is abuse that I personally substantiated multiple people for, even in the absence of other abuse. Because what he did IS abuse, at least in the District of Columbia, based on how the OP described it. Sorry you do not like facts.

[Anonymous]

As a parent, who has raised a few children to adulthood-it takes a LOT of force/pressure to leave a mark that stays around enough to be photographed...I've had to grab a kid (to keep out of the road) and even that did not leave a mark...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am a therapist. This would have to be reported.

And I agree with the PP, this should not be your biggest concern.

What? Because he grabbed the kid? God help our culture if we think it's better to lock up a parent or divorce him because he grabbed his kid too hard in a moment of frustration. Where is the compassion? Where is the proportionality? It really doesn't sound like he was trying to hurt the kid. Maybe he didn't realize how much force he was applying. Maybe he didn't realize the point at which he woudl leave a mark. And what's "a mark," anyway - a bruise? The slight discoloration in skin that comes from pressure or heat and then dissipates after a few seconds? As long as he now acknowledges that he squeezed too tight, I think everyone needs to get over it.

I know. It is ridiculous. Kid was screaming inside, and parents aren't supposed to be able to do anything about it.

Well, it is pretty ridiculous that the only thing OP's DH thought to do about it was grab the kid hard enough to leave marks. It's a reflection of his limited capability to respond - it's actually scary that a grown man couldn't find any other way than to get physical. I can think of plenty of many other ways to respond that would have been appropriate.

Yes, it’s so exactly the same to be sitting at a keyboard contemplating ways to respond when you are not in the situation as it is to be the parent in the moment and in the presence of said screaming kid

Ah yes! This must be the first child that ever screamed in all human history that no one has ever thought of a way to respond without violence! If only there were literally entire books written about how to respond to children correctly…we could keep them in parenting sections of libraries and bookstores! We could have whole articles on positive parenting techniques taking up tons of the internet. But no this helpless man encountered the worlds first screaming child.

Said the woman who has never ever lost her cool with a child. Cause that never ever happens with good parents.

Lost my cool with my child? Sure. I kissed her and put her safely in her crib and *I* left the room for five minutes because her screaming was making me feel out of control. It is, in fact, what parenting books and pediatricians and even the internet all tell you to do with a screaming child.

You’re right about one thing— good parents do not “lose their cool” the way OPs husband did.

Yes and you have never raised your voice not even once.

Why are you so invested in this idea that what the OP did is fine? Raising your voice— which is something I have done only in emergent situations such as running toward a street— is not the same as grabbing a child behaving normally (children scream…) so hard you leave marks on them.

I didn’t say it was fine. I said it was within the realm of normal or wrong mistakes and does not warrant an abuse report and investigation that can have massive legal and emotional consequences for their family.

Except it’s exactly what warrants an abuse report— physical discipline which leaves visible marks or bruises. If OP has pictures there were visible marks or bruises. That’s what mandatory reporters are required to report. A “normal” parent does not do this to their child while their child is behaving in a developmentally normal way.

[Anonymous]

I left a bruise on my then toddler holding her down trying to get her dressed for school mid tantrum. That’s totally normal toddler behavior, right? So I’m a bad mom and should have been investigated by CPS?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am a therapist. This would have to be reported.

And I agree with the PP, this should not be your biggest concern.

What? Because he grabbed the kid? God help our culture if we think it's better to lock up a parent or divorce him because he grabbed his kid too hard in a moment of frustration. Where is the compassion? Where is the proportionality? It really doesn't sound like he was trying to hurt the kid. Maybe he didn't realize how much force he was applying. Maybe he didn't realize the point at which he woudl leave a mark. And what's "a mark," anyway - a bruise? The slight discoloration in skin that comes from pressure or heat and then dissipates after a few seconds? As long as he now acknowledges that he squeezed too tight, I think everyone needs to get over it.

I know. It is ridiculous. Kid was screaming inside, and parents aren't supposed to be able to do anything about it.

Well, it is pretty ridiculous that the only thing OP's DH thought to do about it was grab the kid hard enough to leave marks. It's a reflection of his limited capability to respond - it's actually scary that a grown man couldn't find any other way than to get physical. I can think of plenty of many other ways to respond that would have been appropriate.

+1
It also sounds like this was his reaction in front of OP. I dread to think of what his reaction wools have been if there had not been another adult present. OP you are failing as a parent and/or likely abused at least mentally if this is what you are worried about. Your child is not being protected by you and is learning not to rely on you either. No wonder the child was screaming. Imagine how helpless she must feel if she’s in a house where she certainly knows her dad has a hair trigger temper and her mom is letting him get away with it. OP your judgement is poor so you should at least be honest w/ the therapist or this will be a waste of everyone’s time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I left a bruise on my then toddler holding her down trying to get her dressed for school mid tantrum. That’s totally normal toddler behavior, right? So I’m a bad mom and should have been investigated by CPS?

Yes. Toddlers throw tantrums. If you can’t deal with them safely go to a parenting class or read a book before you *bruise your child* by holding them down. Seriously wtf is wrong with you?