Couples therapy and mandatory reporting

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am a therapist. This would have to be reported.

And I agree with the PP, this should not be your biggest concern.

What? Because he grabbed the kid? God help our culture if we think it's better to lock up a parent or divorce him because he grabbed his kid too hard in a moment of frustration. Where is the compassion? Where is the proportionality? It really doesn't sound like he was trying to hurt the kid. Maybe he didn't realize how much force he was applying. Maybe he didn't realize the point at which he woudl leave a mark. And what's "a mark," anyway - a bruise? The slight discoloration in skin that comes from pressure or heat and then dissipates after a few seconds? As long as he now acknowledges that he squeezed too tight, I think everyone needs to get over it.

I know. It is ridiculous. Kid was screaming inside, and parents aren't supposed to be able to do anything about it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am a therapist. This would have to be reported.

And I agree with the PP, this should not be your biggest concern.

What? Because he grabbed the kid? God help our culture if we think it's better to lock up a parent or divorce him because he grabbed his kid too hard in a moment of frustration. Where is the compassion? Where is the proportionality? It really doesn't sound like he was trying to hurt the kid. Maybe he didn't realize how much force he was applying. Maybe he didn't realize the point at which he woudl leave a mark. And what's "a mark," anyway - a bruise? The slight discoloration in skin that comes from pressure or heat and then dissipates after a few seconds? As long as he now acknowledges that he squeezed too tight, I think everyone needs to get over it.

+10000

I am a different poster and agree with this. It’s legal to spank your kids. He needs better emotional regulation but this isn’t CPS-worthy IMO. And I am a mandated reporter and have reported to CPS before.

Then you do not know what you are doing. I am also a mandated reporter and leaving marks always requires a report. PP, maybe you should think about changing professions.

As someone said above, there are marks and there are marks. Grabbing a child even non-abusively will leave brief red marks. If we are talking about bruises visible hours later that is a different story. But considering none of us here has even seen the photos I think you’re the one jumping to conclusions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am a therapist. This would have to be reported.

And I agree with the PP, this should not be your biggest concern.

What? Because he grabbed the kid? God help our culture if we think it's better to lock up a parent or divorce him because he grabbed his kid too hard in a moment of frustration. Where is the compassion? Where is the proportionality? It really doesn't sound like he was trying to hurt the kid. Maybe he didn't realize how much force he was applying. Maybe he didn't realize the point at which he woudl leave a mark. And what's "a mark," anyway - a bruise? The slight discoloration in skin that comes from pressure or heat and then dissipates after a few seconds? As long as he now acknowledges that he squeezed too tight, I think everyone needs to get over it.

+10000

I am a different poster and agree with this. It’s legal to spank your kids. He needs better emotional regulation but this isn’t CPS-worthy IMO. And I am a mandated reporter and have reported to CPS before.

Therapist here again. Well if you are a mandated reporter, which I am seriously doubting you are, then you would know that it is not our job to decide if something is “CPS worthy", that is up to CPS to decide. Our job is to report and let CPS take action or decide not to. We risk our license if we decide to make those kinds of calls, but I suppose since you are a “mandated reporter“ you would’ve known that, huh?

You sound unstable. Why would anyone seek help from you?

OP NEVER get involved with CPS.

PP very much does not sound unstable. The only commenters who sound like they are potentially unstable are the ones saying it’s crazy to report because then OP’s husband is going to get “locked up.”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am a therapist. This would have to be reported.

And I agree with the PP, this should not be your biggest concern.

What? Because he grabbed the kid? God help our culture if we think it's better to lock up a parent or divorce him because he grabbed his kid too hard in a moment of frustration. Where is the compassion? Where is the proportionality? It really doesn't sound like he was trying to hurt the kid. Maybe he didn't realize how much force he was applying. Maybe he didn't realize the point at which he woudl leave a mark. And what's "a mark," anyway - a bruise? The slight discoloration in skin that comes from pressure or heat and then dissipates after a few seconds? As long as he now acknowledges that he squeezed too tight, I think everyone needs to get over it.

I know. It is ridiculous. Kid was screaming inside, and parents aren't supposed to be able to do anything about it.

Well, it is pretty ridiculous that the only thing OP's DH thought to do about it was grab the kid hard enough to leave marks. It's a reflection of his limited capability to respond - it's actually scary that a grown man couldn't find any other way than to get physical. I can think of plenty of many other ways to respond that would have been appropriate.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am a therapist. This would have to be reported.

And I agree with the PP, this should not be your biggest concern.

What? Because he grabbed the kid? God help our culture if we think it's better to lock up a parent or divorce him because he grabbed his kid too hard in a moment of frustration. Where is the compassion? Where is the proportionality? It really doesn't sound like he was trying to hurt the kid. Maybe he didn't realize how much force he was applying. Maybe he didn't realize the point at which he woudl leave a mark. And what's "a mark," anyway - a bruise? The slight discoloration in skin that comes from pressure or heat and then dissipates after a few seconds? As long as he now acknowledges that he squeezed too tight, I think everyone needs to get over it.

+10000

I am a different poster and agree with this. It’s legal to spank your kids. He needs better emotional regulation but this isn’t CPS-worthy IMO. And I am a mandated reporter and have reported to CPS before.

Then you do not know what you are doing. I am also a mandated reporter and leaving marks always requires a report. PP, maybe you should think about changing professions.

As someone said above, there are marks and there are marks. Grabbing a child even non-abusively will leave brief red marks. If we are talking about bruises
visible hours later that is a different story. But considering none of us here has even seen the photos I think you’re the one jumping to conclusions.

OP has pictures of the marks, obviously she was concerned about it. Again, I think you should consider a new profession. You are obviously not in a position to advocate for children.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am a therapist. This would have to be reported.

And I agree with the PP, this should not be your biggest concern.

What? Because he grabbed the kid? God help our culture if we think it's better to lock up a parent or divorce him because he grabbed his kid too hard in a moment of frustration. Where is the compassion? Where is the proportionality? It really doesn't sound like he was trying to hurt the kid. Maybe he didn't realize how much force he was applying. Maybe he didn't realize the point at which he woudl leave a mark. And what's "a mark," anyway - a bruise? The slight discoloration in skin that comes from pressure or heat and then dissipates after a few seconds? As long as he now acknowledges that he squeezed too tight, I think everyone needs to get over it.

I know. It is ridiculous. Kid was screaming inside, and parents aren't supposed to be able to do anything about it.

Well, it is pretty ridiculous that the only thing OP's DH thought to do about it was grab the kid hard enough to leave marks. It's a reflection of his limited capability to respond - it's actually scary that a grown man couldn't find any other way than to get physical. I can think of plenty of many other ways to respond that would have been appropriate.

Yes, it’s so exactly the same to be sitting at a keyboard contemplating ways to respond when you are not in the situation as it is to be the parent in the moment and in the presence of said screaming kid

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am a therapist. This would have to be reported.

And I agree with the PP, this should not be your biggest concern.

What? Because he grabbed the kid? God help our culture if we think it's better to lock up a parent or divorce him because he grabbed his kid too hard in a moment of frustration. Where is the compassion? Where is the proportionality? It really doesn't sound like he was trying to hurt the kid. Maybe he didn't realize how much force he was applying. Maybe he didn't realize the point at which he woudl leave a mark. And what's "a mark," anyway - a bruise? The slight discoloration in skin that comes from pressure or heat and then dissipates after a few seconds? As long as he now acknowledges that he squeezed too tight, I think everyone needs to get over it.

+10000

I am a different poster and agree with this. It’s legal to spank your kids. He needs better emotional regulation but this isn’t CPS-worthy IMO. And I am a mandated reporter and have reported to CPS before.

Then you do not know what you are doing. I am also a mandated reporter and leaving marks always requires a report. PP, maybe you should think about changing professions.

As someone said above, there are marks and there are marks. Grabbing a child even non-abusively will leave brief red marks. If we are talking about bruises
visible hours later that is a different story. But considering none of us here has even seen the photos I think you’re the one jumping to conclusions.

OP has pictures of the marks, obviously she was concerned about it. Again, I think you should consider a new profession. You are obviously not in a position to advocate for children.

Lol if you only knew.

[Anonymous]

CPS can do more traumatic damage to this kid in a week of foster care than this father will do for her entire childhood. This guy grabbed her once and was concerned enough about it to agree to go to family therapy. Much better to be with a father like that than roll the dice with strangers in foster care

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am a therapist. This would have to be reported.

And I agree with the PP, this should not be your biggest concern.

What? Because he grabbed the kid? God help our culture if we think it's better to lock up a parent or divorce him because he grabbed his kid too hard in a moment of frustration. Where is the compassion? Where is the proportionality? It really doesn't sound like he was trying to hurt the kid. Maybe he didn't realize how much force he was applying. Maybe he didn't realize the point at which he woudl leave a mark. And what's "a mark," anyway - a bruise? The slight discoloration in skin that comes from pressure or heat and then dissipates after a few seconds? As long as he now acknowledges that he squeezed too tight, I think everyone needs to get over it.

+10000

I am a different poster and agree with this. It’s legal to spank your kids. He needs better emotional regulation but this isn’t CPS-worthy IMO. And I am a mandated reporter and have reported to CPS before.

Then you do not know what you are doing. I am also a mandated reporter and leaving marks always requires a report. PP, maybe you should think about changing professions.

As someone said above, there are marks and there are marks. Grabbing a child even non-abusively will leave brief red marks. If we are talking about bruises visible hours later that is a different story. But considering none of us here has even seen the photos I think you’re the one jumping to conclusions.

That is not the responsibility of their couples therapist, in a new relationship, to investigate. That therapist's ethical obligation, if the OP describes the situation as in this post, is to report it to CPS and let them investigate whether it's serious or not. As a former CPS investigator, I agree that there are marks and then there are MARKS. This does not sound like a situation in which the child would be removed from the home, but it is not the job of the couples therapist to investigate that. Their responsibility is to report it to CPS. It doesn't mean that the couple can't work with the therapist. They still need help. But the therapist's professional ethics would require a report if the OP described it this way in a session or an intake document, and they risk their license by not reporting it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am a therapist. This would have to be reported.

And I agree with the PP, this should not be your biggest concern.

What? Because he grabbed the kid? God help our culture if we think it's better to lock up a parent or divorce him because he grabbed his kid too hard in a moment of frustration. Where is the compassion? Where is the proportionality? It really doesn't sound like he was trying to hurt the kid. Maybe he didn't realize how much force he was applying. Maybe he didn't realize the point at which he woudl leave a mark. And what's "a mark," anyway - a bruise? The slight discoloration in skin that comes from pressure or heat and then dissipates after a few seconds? As long as he now acknowledges that he squeezed too tight, I think everyone needs to get over it.

+10000

I am a different poster and agree with this. It’s legal to spank your kids. He needs better emotional regulation but this isn’t CPS-worthy IMO. And I am a mandated reporter and have reported to CPS before.

Then you do not know what you are doing. I am also a mandated reporter and leaving marks always requires a report. PP, maybe you should think about changing professions.

As someone said above, there are marks and there are marks. Grabbing a child even non-abusively will leave brief red marks. If we are talking about bruises visible hours later that is a different story. But considering none of us here has even seen the photos I think you’re the one jumping to conclusions.

That is not the responsibility of their couples therapist, in a new relationship, to investigate. That therapist's ethical obligation, if the OP describes the situation as in this post, is to report it to CPS and let them investigate whether it's serious or not. As a former CPS investigator, I agree that there are marks and then there are MARKS. This does not sound like a situation in which the child would be removed from the home, but it is not the job of the couples therapist to investigate that. Their responsibility is to report it to CPS. It doesn't mean that the couple can't work with the therapist. They still need help. But the therapist's professional ethics would require a report if the OP described it this way in a session or an intake document, and they risk their license by not reporting it.

Dp. You all realize that all you’ve done is convince OP not to talk to her therapist about this, right? Way to go, mandatory reporters…

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am a therapist. This would have to be reported.

And I agree with the PP, this should not be your biggest concern.

What? Because he grabbed the kid? God help our culture if we think it's better to lock up a parent or divorce him because he grabbed his kid too hard in a moment of frustration. Where is the compassion? Where is the proportionality? It really doesn't sound like he was trying to hurt the kid. Maybe he didn't realize how much force he was applying. Maybe he didn't realize the point at which he woudl leave a mark. And what's "a mark," anyway - a bruise? The slight discoloration in skin that comes from pressure or heat and then dissipates after a few seconds? As long as he now acknowledges that he squeezed too tight, I think everyone needs to get over it.

+10000

I am a different poster and agree with this. It’s legal to spank your kids. He needs better emotional regulation but this isn’t CPS-worthy IMO. And I am a mandated reporter and have reported to CPS before.

Then you do not know what you are doing. I am also a mandated reporter and leaving marks always requires a report. PP, maybe you should think about changing professions.

As someone said above, there are marks and there are marks. Grabbing a child even non-abusively will leave brief red marks. If we are talking about bruises visible hours later that is a different story. But considering none of us here has even seen the photos I think you’re the one jumping to conclusions.

That is not the responsibility of their couples therapist, in a new relationship, to investigate. That therapist's ethical obligation, if the OP describes the situation as in this post, is to report it to CPS and let them investigate whether it's serious or not. As a former CPS investigator, I agree that there are marks and then there are MARKS. This does not sound like a situation in which the child would be removed from the home, but it is not the job of the couples therapist to investigate that. Their responsibility is to report it to CPS. It doesn't mean that the couple can't work with the therapist. They still need help. But the therapist's professional ethics would require a report if the OP described it this way in a session or an intake document, and they risk their license by not reporting it.

Dp. You all realize that all you’ve done is convince OP not to talk to her therapist about this, right? Way to go, mandatory reporters…

I agree about the incentives, but I don't know that the reporters are to blame. If the law actually has such a low threshold for mandatory reporting with no discretion for the therapist, then maybe the law is the problem.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am a therapist. This would have to be reported.

And I agree with the PP, this should not be your biggest concern.

What? Because he grabbed the kid? God help our culture if we think it's better to lock up a parent or divorce him because he grabbed his kid too hard in a moment of frustration. Where is the compassion? Where is the proportionality? It really doesn't sound like he was trying to hurt the kid. Maybe he didn't realize how much force he was applying. Maybe he didn't realize the point at which he woudl leave a mark. And what's "a mark," anyway - a bruise? The slight discoloration in skin that comes from pressure or heat and then dissipates after a few seconds? As long as he now acknowledges that he squeezed too tight, I think everyone needs to get over it.

+10000

I am a different poster and agree with this. It’s legal to spank your kids. He needs better emotional regulation but this isn’t CPS-worthy IMO. And I am a mandated reporter and have reported to CPS before.

Then you do not know what you are doing. I am also a mandated reporter and leaving marks always requires a report. PP, maybe you should think about changing professions.

As someone said above, there are marks and there are marks. Grabbing a child even non-abusively will leave brief red marks. If we are talking about bruises visible hours later that is a different story. But considering none of us here has even seen the photos I think you’re the one jumping to conclusions.

That is not the responsibility of their couples therapist, in a new relationship, to investigate. That therapist's ethical obligation, if the OP describes the situation as in this post, is to report it to CPS and let them investigate whether it's serious or not. As a former CPS investigator, I agree that there are marks and then there are MARKS. This does not sound like a situation in which the child would be removed from the home, but it is not the job of the couples therapist to investigate that. Their responsibility is to report it to CPS. It doesn't mean that the couple can't work with the therapist. They still need help. But the therapist's professional ethics would require a report if the OP described it this way in a session or an intake document, and they risk their license by not reporting it.

Dp. You all realize that all you’ve done is convince OP not to talk to her therapist about this, right? Way to go, mandatory reporters…

I’m the mandatory reporter who wouldn’t report this and I agree w you and also w the person who said the CPS investigation will cause more harm than the incident. Not to mention to the marriage. It sounds like OP is very very fearful and upset about her DH’s behavior and is in a “document” frame of mind which is almost paranoid. I understand she’s stressed but her own description may be somewhat exaggerated and since there’s clearly no threat of immediate serious harm I’d take time to understand the situation more thoroughly rather than hitting the CPS button right out of the gate which incidentally will also end the DH’s agreement to attend therapy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:CPS can do more traumatic damage to this kid in a week of foster care than this father will do for her entire childhood. This guy grabbed her once and was concerned enough about it to agree to go to family therapy. Much better to be with a father like that than roll the dice with strangers in foster care

Seriously, I'll try to find a link to cite later but the bottom line is that since mandated reporting laws rolled out nation wide, cps visits have increased exponentially but the number of reports that CPS has actually taken up as cases has stayed the same. I know this bc CPS showed up at my door the day after my then 5 yo son's neuropsych exam. Apparently at some point in the 4 hour interview with hundreds of questions he framed a single response in a concerning way and we needed to be checked on. I had absolutely no idea how vulnerable we were in that process but it has made me think twice about seeking professional help ever again. A therapist we later consulted for setting up a behavioral plan for our son told us that a big part of what she does is help parents process cps trauma.

OP, you know your husband best. If this was an incident with a particularly challenging child and you think your husband is seeking help in good faith then let the professional set you guys up for success so that he has a plan for how to respond in future situations. So much of the lack of self-control language thrown around here is really just a lack of planning ahead. If you can script this out going forward it's so much easier to implement self control. Obviously if things don't improve that's a different story but from what you've posted you're not there yet.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am a therapist. This would have to be reported.

And I agree with the PP, this should not be your biggest concern.

What? Because he grabbed the kid? God help our culture if we think it's better to lock up a parent or divorce him because he grabbed his kid too hard in a moment of frustration. Where is the compassion? Where is the proportionality? It really doesn't sound like he was trying to hurt the kid. Maybe he didn't realize how much force he was applying. Maybe he didn't realize the point at which he woudl leave a mark. And what's "a mark," anyway - a bruise? The slight discoloration in skin that comes from pressure or heat and then dissipates after a few seconds? As long as he now acknowledges that he squeezed too tight, I think everyone needs to get over it.

+10000

I am a different poster and agree with this. It’s legal to spank your kids. He needs better emotional regulation but this isn’t CPS-worthy IMO. And I am a mandated reporter and have reported to CPS before.

Then you do not know what you are doing. I am also a mandated reporter and leaving marks always requires a report. PP, maybe you should think about changing professions.

As someone said above, there are marks and there are marks. Grabbing a child even non-abusively will leave brief red marks. If we are talking about bruises visible hours later that is a different story. But considering none of us here has even seen the photos I think you’re the one jumping to conclusions.

That is not the responsibility of their couples therapist, in a new relationship, to investigate. That therapist's ethical obligation, if the OP describes the situation as in this post, is to report it to CPS and let them investigate whether it's serious or not. As a former CPS investigator, I agree that there are marks and then there are MARKS. This does not sound like a situation in which the child would be removed from the home, but it is not the job of the couples therapist to investigate that. Their responsibility is to report it to CPS. It doesn't mean that the couple can't work with the therapist. They still need help. But the therapist's professional ethics would require a report if the OP described it this way in a session or an intake document, and they risk their license by not reporting it.

Dp. You all realize that all you’ve done is convince OP not to talk to her therapist about this, right? Way to go, mandatory reporters…

I agree about the incentives, but I don't know that the reporters are to blame. If the law actually has such a low threshold for mandatory reporting with no discretion for the therapist, then maybe the law is the problem.

Yep, now instead of being afraid of the parents, professionals have to be afraid of the lawyers -- which is a lot scarier.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:CPS can do more traumatic damage to this kid in a week of foster care than this father will do for her entire childhood. This guy grabbed her once and was concerned enough about it to agree to go to family therapy. Much better to be with a father like that than roll the dice with strangers in foster care

Seriously, I'll try to find a link to cite later but the bottom line is that since mandated reporting laws rolled out nation wide, cps visits have increased exponentially but the number of reports that CPS has actually taken up as cases has stayed the same. I know this bc CPS showed up at my door the day after my then 5 yo son's neuropsych exam. Apparently at some point in the 4 hour interview with hundreds of questions he framed a single response in a concerning way and we needed to be checked on. I had absolutely no idea how vulnerable we were in that process but it has made me think twice about seeking professional help ever again. A therapist we later consulted for setting up a behavioral plan for our son told us that a big part of what she does is help parents process cps trauma.

OP, you know your husband best. If this was an incident with a particularly challenging child and you think your husband is seeking help in good faith then let the professional set you guys up for success so that he has a plan for how to respond in future situations. So much of the lack of self-control language thrown around here is really just a lack of planning ahead. If you can script this out going forward it's so much easier to implement self control. Obviously if things don't improve that's a different story but from what you've posted you're not there yet.

Great comments and this is a good plan.