Couples therapy and mandatory reporting

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I left a bruise on my then toddler holding her down trying to get her dressed for school mid tantrum. That’s totally normal toddler behavior, right? So I’m a bad mom and should have been investigated by CPS?

Normal toddler behavior yes, but your actions in response were abusive. Your child’s physical safety is more important than being at school on time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Just wanted to add that my father was physical with me when he was angry and my mother did nothing. I am in my fifties and have still not forgiven her. (Not that she asked.)

I have spent years in therapy trying to understand why my mother did not protect me.

I have very little to do with her now. (Dad is dead).

It’s very simple. She didn’t protect you because she was unable to raise you on her own, or didn’t want you to be alone with an abusive dad 50% of the time, and was possibly being abused herself. There are innumerable women who cannot afford to get away from their abusers and therefore cannot protect their children from them adequately either. Some of them even die trying.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am a therapist. This would have to be reported.

And I agree with the PP, this should not be your biggest concern.

What? Because he grabbed the kid? God help our culture if we think it's better to lock up a parent or divorce him because he grabbed his kid too hard in a moment of frustration. Where is the compassion? Where is the proportionality? It really doesn't sound like he was trying to hurt the kid. Maybe he didn't realize how much force he was applying. Maybe he didn't realize the point at which he woudl leave a mark. And what's "a mark," anyway - a bruise? The slight discoloration in skin that comes from pressure or heat and then dissipates after a few seconds? As long as he now acknowledges that he squeezed too tight, I think everyone needs to get over it.

+10000

I am a different poster and agree with this. It’s legal to spank your kids. He needs better emotional regulation but this isn’t CPS-worthy IMO. And I am a mandated reporter and have reported to CPS before.

Then you do not know what you are doing. I am also a mandated reporter and leaving marks always requires a report. PP, maybe you should think about changing professions.

As someone said above, there are marks and there are marks. Grabbing a child even non-abusively will leave brief red marks. If we are talking about bruises visible hours later that is a different story. But considering none of us here has even seen the photos I think you’re the one jumping to conclusions.

Exactly. If my child was headed for the street and I grabbed his arm to stop him from being run over, the potential to leave a mark is there, maybe even a bruise. Other parent could disagree and say Larlo would have listened to the word 'no' so grabbing his arm was wrong. Mandatory reporter could then report to CPS, and some CPS worker with a chip on his/her shoulder could consider action abusive.

Ok so in a worst case scenario a CPS investigation is started and since you have nothing to hide and don’t routinely bruise your child (right?) it’s an annoyance and potentially an expense.

A mandatory reporter ignores those bruises and loses their job and a kid potentially loses their life. Why is that a preferable outcome to you?

I don’t think you have any concept or understanding of how traumatizing these inquiries can be even if they are baseless. These people, most of whom have sub mental IQs, have the power to ruin your reputation, in some cases your career, destroy your family, and remove your child. It is a horrific experience even if you are innocent.

[Anonymous]

OP, why did you take pictures?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am a therapist. This would have to be reported.

And I agree with the PP, this should not be your biggest concern.

What? Because he grabbed the kid? God help our culture if we think it's better to lock up a parent or divorce him because he grabbed his kid too hard in a moment of frustration. Where is the compassion? Where is the proportionality? It really doesn't sound like he was trying to hurt the kid. Maybe he didn't realize how much force he was applying. Maybe he didn't realize the point at which he woudl leave a mark. And what's "a mark," anyway - a bruise? The slight discoloration in skin that comes from pressure or heat and then dissipates after a few seconds? As long as he now acknowledges that he squeezed too tight, I think everyone needs to get over it.

+10000

I am a different poster and agree with this. It’s legal to spank your kids. He needs better emotional regulation but this isn’t CPS-worthy IMO. And I am a mandated reporter and have reported to CPS before.

+1
Then you do not know what you are doing. I am also a mandated reporter and leaving marks always requires a report. PP, maybe you should think about changing professions.

As someone said above, there are marks and there are marks. Grabbing a child even non-abusively will leave brief red marks. If we are talking about bruises visible hours later that is a different story. But considering none of us here has even seen the photos I think you’re the one jumping to conclusions.

Exactly. If my child was headed for the street and I grabbed his arm to stop him from being run over, the potential to leave a mark is there, maybe even a bruise. Other parent could disagree and say Larlo would have listened to the word 'no' so grabbing his arm was wrong. Mandatory reporter could then report to CPS, and some CPS worker with a chip on his/her shoulder could consider action abusive.

Ok so in a worst case scenario a CPS investigation is started and since you have nothing to hide and don’t routinely bruise your child (right?) it’s an annoyance and potentially an expense.

A mandatory reporter ignores those bruises and loses their job and a kid potentially loses their life. Why is that a preferable outcome to you?

I don’t think you have any concept or understanding of how traumatizing these inquiries can be even if they are baseless. These people, most of whom have sub mental IQs, have the power to ruin your reputation, in some cases your career, destroy your family, and remove your child. It is a horrific experience even if you are innocent.

+1. Know someone who had an infant (8 weeks) removed for what was quickly labeled a birth injury. But once the baby had been removed, it took months ($$$) to get the baby back. This may not be the case in every jurisdiction, but CPS has its share of power hungry employees.

[Anonymous]

Beware people who work for mission-driven organizations, especially low-paying ones. They're not usually very good at nuances. It's all about the mission.

[Anonymous]

Most therapists will stare blankly and then say something like 'raising kids is tough' or 'we all get angry sometimes'. Therapy with an abuser is harmful. Most therapists are ill-equipped or downright dangerous. You need a *good* individual therapist and a divorce.

[Anonymous]

The therapist had a professional duty to report. What happens next really depends on what individual CPS worker you get. Some overreact and some underreact and the occasional one acts appropriate to the issue. Sometimes involving CPS is very harmful to the children, occasionally it is helpful and the rest of the time it has little effect. Unfortunately it is a crapshoot to know how it will go for any one family. I deal with CPS often in my work.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Most therapists will stare blankly and then say something like 'raising kids is tough' or 'we all get angry sometimes'. Therapy with an abuser is harmful. Most therapists are ill-equipped or downright dangerous. You need a *good* individual therapist and a divorce.

You’re crazy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am a therapist. This would have to be reported.

And I agree with the PP, this should not be your biggest concern.

What? Because he grabbed the kid? God help our culture if we think it's better to lock up a parent or divorce him because he grabbed his kid too hard in a moment of frustration. Where is the compassion? Where is the proportionality? It really doesn't sound like he was trying to hurt the kid. Maybe he didn't realize how much force he was applying. Maybe he didn't realize the point at which he woudl leave a mark. And what's "a mark," anyway - a bruise? The slight discoloration in skin that comes from pressure or heat and then dissipates after a few seconds? As long as he now acknowledges that he squeezed too tight, I think everyone needs to get over it.

+10000

I am a different poster and agree with this. It’s legal to spank your kids. He needs better emotional regulation but this isn’t CPS-worthy IMO. And I am a mandated reporter and have reported to CPS before.

Then you do not know what you are doing. I am also a mandated reporter and leaving marks always requires a report. PP, maybe you should think about changing professions.

As someone said above, there are marks and there are marks. Grabbing a child even non-abusively will leave brief red marks. If we are talking about bruises visible hours later that is a different story. But considering none of us here has even seen the photos I think you’re the one jumping to conclusions.

Exactly. If my child was headed for the street and I grabbed his arm to stop him from being run over, the potential to leave a mark is there, maybe even a bruise. Other parent could disagree and say Larlo would have listened to the word 'no' so grabbing his arm was wrong. Mandatory reporter could then report to CPS, and some CPS worker with a chip on his/her shoulder could consider action abusive.

Ok so in a worst case scenario a CPS investigation is started and since you have nothing to hide and don’t routinely bruise your child (right?) it’s an annoyance and potentially an expense.

A mandatory reporter ignores those bruises and loses their job and a kid potentially loses their life. Why is that a preferable outcome to you?

I don’t think you have any concept or understanding of how traumatizing these inquiries can be even if they are baseless. These people, most of whom have sub mental IQs, have the power to ruin your reputation, in some cases your career, destroy your family, and remove your child. It is a horrific experience even if you are innocent.

I do understand this could be traumatizing. I’m saying the trauma a parent who engages in one-time abuse or is misunderstood feels is a lesser evil than a child dying. I’m saying your reputation and career are not more important than the mandatory reporters career, which is what they lose if they don’t report you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am a therapist. This would have to be reported.

And I agree with the PP, this should not be your biggest concern.

What? Because he grabbed the kid? God help our culture if we think it's better to lock up a parent or divorce him because he grabbed his kid too hard in a moment of frustration. Where is the compassion? Where is the proportionality? It really doesn't sound like he was trying to hurt the kid. Maybe he didn't realize how much force he was applying. Maybe he didn't realize the point at which he woudl leave a mark. And what's "a mark," anyway - a bruise? The slight discoloration in skin that comes from pressure or heat and then dissipates after a few seconds? As long as he now acknowledges that he squeezed too tight, I think everyone needs to get over it.

+10000

I am a different poster and agree with this. It’s legal to spank your kids. He needs better emotional regulation but this isn’t CPS-worthy IMO. And I am a mandated reporter and have reported to CPS before.

Then you do not know what you are doing. I am also a mandated reporter and leaving marks always requires a report. PP, maybe you should think about changing professions.

As someone said above, there are marks and there are marks. Grabbing a child even non-abusively will leave brief red marks. If we are talking about bruises visible hours later that is a different story. But considering none of us here has even seen the photos I think you’re the one jumping to conclusions.

Exactly. If my child was headed for the street and I grabbed his arm to stop him from being run over, the potential to leave a mark is there, maybe even a bruise. Other parent could disagree and say Larlo would have listened to the word 'no' so grabbing his arm was wrong. Mandatory reporter could then report to CPS, and some CPS worker with a chip on his/her shoulder could consider action abusive.

Ok so in a worst case scenario a CPS investigation is started and since you have nothing to hide and don’t routinely bruise your child (right?) it’s an annoyance and potentially an expense.

A mandatory reporter ignores those bruises and loses their job and a kid potentially loses their life. Why is that a preferable outcome to you?

I don’t think you have any concept or understanding of how traumatizing these inquiries can be even if they are baseless. These people, most of whom have sub mental IQs, have the power to ruin your reputation, in some cases your career, destroy your family, and remove your child. It is a horrific experience even if you are innocent.

I do understand this could be traumatizing. I’m saying the trauma a parent who engages in one-time abuse or is misunderstood feels is a lesser evil than a child dying. I’m saying your reputation and career are not more important than the mandatory reporters career, which is what they lose if they don’t report you.

Ironically, mandated reporters also have to consider their reputation and career when weighing whether or not to report a concern to cps. Just look at this thread, mandated reporters on here have flat out said that not reporting edge cases isn't worth the risk to themselves. The law is intensed to provide more protection to reporters directly, and children indirectly--not the other way. To say it is a lesser evil might be true in one sense, but if parents are thinking twice about voluntarily seeking outside support then it's no longer a lesser of two evils

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am a therapist. This would have to be reported.

And I agree with the PP, this should not be your biggest concern.

What? Because he grabbed the kid? God help our culture if we think it's better to lock up a parent or divorce him because he grabbed his kid too hard in a moment of frustration. Where is the compassion? Where is the proportionality? It really doesn't sound like he was trying to hurt the kid. Maybe he didn't realize how much force he was applying. Maybe he didn't realize the point at which he woudl leave a mark. And what's "a mark," anyway - a bruise? The slight discoloration in skin that comes from pressure or heat and then dissipates after a few seconds? As long as he now acknowledges that he squeezed too tight, I think everyone needs to get over it.

+10000

I am a different poster and agree with this. It’s legal to spank your kids. He needs better emotional regulation but this isn’t CPS-worthy IMO. And I am a mandated reporter and have reported to CPS before.

Then you do not know what you are doing. I am also a mandated reporter and leaving marks always requires a report. PP, maybe you should think about changing professions.

As someone said above, there are marks and there are marks. Grabbing a child even non-abusively will leave brief red marks. If we are talking about bruises visible hours later that is a different story. But considering none of us here has even seen the photos I think you’re the one jumping to conclusions.

Exactly. If my child was headed for the street and I grabbed his arm to stop him from being run over, the potential to leave a mark is there, maybe even a bruise. Other parent could disagree and say Larlo would have listened to the word 'no' so grabbing his arm was wrong. Mandatory reporter could then report to CPS, and some CPS worker with a chip on his/her shoulder could consider action abusive.

Ok so in a worst case scenario a CPS investigation is started and since you have nothing to hide and don’t routinely bruise your child (right?) it’s an annoyance and potentially an expense.

A mandatory reporter ignores those bruises and loses their job and a kid potentially loses their life. Why is that a preferable outcome to you?

I don’t think you have any concept or understanding of how traumatizing these inquiries can be even if they are baseless. These people, most of whom have sub mental IQs, have the power to ruin your reputation, in some cases your career, destroy your family, and remove your child. It is a horrific experience even if you are innocent.

I do understand this could be traumatizing. I’m saying the trauma a parent who engages in one-time abuse or is misunderstood feels is a lesser evil than a child dying. I’m saying your reputation and career are not more important than the mandatory reporters career, which is what they lose if they don’t report you.

My reputation and career ARE more important than a mandated supporters career.

And if my spouse tried to label me an abuser we would be done, and they could kiss seeing their children goodbye at least half of the time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am a therapist. This would have to be reported.

And I agree with the PP, this should not be your biggest concern.

What? Because he grabbed the kid? God help our culture if we think it's better to lock up a parent or divorce him because he grabbed his kid too hard in a moment of frustration. Where is the compassion? Where is the proportionality? It really doesn't sound like he was trying to hurt the kid. Maybe he didn't realize how much force he was applying. Maybe he didn't realize the point at which he woudl leave a mark. And what's "a mark," anyway - a bruise? The slight discoloration in skin that comes from pressure or heat and then dissipates after a few seconds? As long as he now acknowledges that he squeezed too tight, I think everyone needs to get over it.

+10000

I am a different poster and agree with this. It’s legal to spank your kids. He needs better emotional regulation but this isn’t CPS-worthy IMO. And I am a mandated reporter and have reported to CPS before.

Then you do not know what you are doing. I am also a mandated reporter and leaving marks always requires a report. PP, maybe you should think about changing professions.

As someone said above, there are marks and there are marks. Grabbing a child even non-abusively will leave brief red marks. If we are talking about bruises visible hours later that is a different story. But considering none of us here has even seen the photos I think you’re the one jumping to conclusions.

Exactly. If my child was headed for the street and I grabbed his arm to stop him from being run over, the potential to leave a mark is there, maybe even a bruise. Other parent could disagree and say Larlo would have listened to the word 'no' so grabbing his arm was wrong. Mandatory reporter could then report to CPS, and some CPS worker with a chip on his/her shoulder could consider action abusive.

Ok so in a worst case scenario a CPS investigation is started and since you have nothing to hide and don’t routinely bruise your child (right?) it’s an annoyance and potentially an expense.

A mandatory reporter ignores those bruises and loses their job and a kid potentially loses their life. Why is that a preferable outcome to you?

I don’t think you have any concept or understanding of how traumatizing these inquiries can be even if they are baseless. These people, most of whom have sub mental IQs, have the power to ruin your reputation, in some cases your career, destroy your family, and remove your child. It is a horrific experience even if you are innocent.

I do understand this could be traumatizing. I’m saying the trauma a parent who engages in one-time abuse or is misunderstood feels is a lesser evil than a child dying. I’m saying your reputation and career are not more important than the mandatory reporters career, which is what they lose if they don’t report you.

You clearly have little understanding about what actually happens to children in a lot of these investigations. It’s not the parent’s trauma I’d be concerned about the trauma to the child or children involved. It does not take hard proof to remove a child from the house. Sending a child into foster care, even if temporary, is highly traumatic. FOR THE CHILD. I say this as someone who was in the foster care system.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am a therapist. This would have to be reported.

And I agree with the PP, this should not be your biggest concern.

What? Because he grabbed the kid? God help our culture if we think it's better to lock up a parent or divorce him because he grabbed his kid too hard in a moment of frustration. Where is the compassion? Where is the proportionality? It really doesn't sound like he was trying to hurt the kid. Maybe he didn't realize how much force he was applying. Maybe he didn't realize the point at which he woudl leave a mark. And what's "a mark," anyway - a bruise? The slight discoloration in skin that comes from pressure or heat and then dissipates after a few seconds? As long as he now acknowledges that he squeezed too tight, I think everyone needs to get over it.

+10000

I am a different poster and agree with this. It’s legal to spank your kids. He needs better emotional regulation but this isn’t CPS-worthy IMO. And I am a mandated reporter and have reported to CPS before.

Then you do not know what you are doing. I am also a mandated reporter and leaving marks always requires a report. PP, maybe you should think about changing professions.

As someone said above, there are marks and there are marks. Grabbing a child even non-abusively will leave brief red marks. If we are talking about bruises visible hours later that is a different story. But considering none of us here has even seen the photos I think you’re the one jumping to conclusions.

Exactly. If my child was headed for the street and I grabbed his arm to stop him from being run over, the potential to leave a mark is there, maybe even a bruise. Other parent could disagree and say Larlo would have listened to the word 'no' so grabbing his arm was wrong. Mandatory reporter could then report to CPS, and some CPS worker with a chip on his/her shoulder could consider action abusive.

Ok so in a worst case scenario a CPS investigation is started and since you have nothing to hide and don’t routinely bruise your child (right?) it’s an annoyance and potentially an expense.

A mandatory reporter ignores those bruises and loses their job and a kid potentially loses their life. Why is that a preferable outcome to you?

I don’t think you have any concept or understanding of how traumatizing these inquiries can be even if they are baseless. These people, most of whom have sub mental IQs, have the power to ruin your reputation, in some cases your career, destroy your family, and remove your child. It is a horrific experience even if you are innocent.

I do understand this could be traumatizing. I’m saying the trauma a parent who engages in one-time abuse or is misunderstood feels is a lesser evil than a child dying. I’m saying your reputation and career are not more important than the mandatory reporters career, which is what they lose if they don’t report you.

My reputation and career ARE more important than a mandated supporters career.

And if my spouse tried to label me an abuser we would be done, and they could kiss seeing their children goodbye at least half of the time.

Why is your career more important than a doctor's, or a teacher's, or a therapist's?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am a therapist. This would have to be reported.

And I agree with the PP, this should not be your biggest concern.

What? Because he grabbed the kid? God help our culture if we think it's better to lock up a parent or divorce him because he grabbed his kid too hard in a moment of frustration. Where is the compassion? Where is the proportionality? It really doesn't sound like he was trying to hurt the kid. Maybe he didn't realize how much force he was applying. Maybe he didn't realize the point at which he woudl leave a mark. And what's "a mark," anyway - a bruise? The slight discoloration in skin that comes from pressure or heat and then dissipates after a few seconds? As long as he now acknowledges that he squeezed too tight, I think everyone needs to get over it.

+10000

I am a different poster and agree with this. It’s legal to spank your kids. He needs better emotional regulation but this isn’t CPS-worthy IMO. And I am a mandated reporter and have reported to CPS before.

Then you do not know what you are doing. I am also a mandated reporter and leaving marks always requires a report. PP, maybe you should think about changing professions.

As someone said above, there are marks and there are marks. Grabbing a child even non-abusively will leave brief red marks. If we are talking about bruises visible hours later that is a different story. But considering none of us here has even seen the photos I think you’re the one jumping to conclusions.

Exactly. If my child was headed for the street and I grabbed his arm to stop him from being run over, the potential to leave a mark is there, maybe even a bruise. Other parent could disagree and say Larlo would have listened to the word 'no' so grabbing his arm was wrong. Mandatory reporter could then report to CPS, and some CPS worker with a chip on his/her shoulder could consider action abusive.

Ok so in a worst case scenario a CPS investigation is started and since you have nothing to hide and don’t routinely bruise your child (right?) it’s an annoyance and potentially an expense.

A mandatory reporter ignores those bruises and loses their job and a kid potentially loses their life. Why is that a preferable outcome to you?

I don’t think you have any concept or understanding of how traumatizing these inquiries can be even if they are baseless. These people, most of whom have sub mental IQs, have the power to ruin your reputation, in some cases your career, destroy your family, and remove your child. It is a horrific experience even if you are innocent.

I do understand this could be traumatizing. I’m saying the trauma a parent who engages in one-time abuse or is misunderstood feels is a lesser evil than a child dying. I’m saying your reputation and career are not more important than the mandatory reporters career, which is what they lose if they don’t report you.

My reputation and career ARE more important than a mandated supporters career.

And if my spouse tried to label me an abuser we would be done, and they could kiss seeing their children goodbye at least half of the time.

Why is your career more important than a doctor's, or a teacher's, or a therapist's?

NP -realistically, any of us are self-focused and will feel our career is most important, and maybe that is the point of some of these arguments: mandated reporters are reporting not because the situation truly warrants it, but because their career depends on it. The best interest of the child is background noise.