Diversity of schools - can this work both ways? Am I being unreasonable?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kids have been in majority black schools, ES and HS. There have been minimal problems. I’m not sure what you fear about your kid being in the minority. I don’t know why you post this? Do you want us to come reassure you that you’re not racist? What do you think it’s like to be one of the few white kids? From my observation, it’s not like being the only minority because there is something broken in white culture.

OP said being one of one or two kids. Is this your child's experience? I'd check in with them--there's lots to be concerned about, just like if your child were the only AA child in an all-other race school.

There it is. Those two things are not the same thing. The woke mob is so quick to response and indict OP while they obliviate the line between "only" and "not majority". And they do it with that extreme judgement that freezes any possible discussion. I'm an extremely liberal voter and tend towards very liberal positions on public policy, but it infuriates me to watch people who are ostensibly on my team behave like MAGA voters and just blindly dismiss any position they don't like.

I'm quoting this simply because they're all great points.

[Anonymous]

My kid is at a heavily AA school (>90%) and is white. I thought we could do it, especially when we got to PK and it turns out these grades are more diverse (i.e. she was not the only white kid in class, though she was one of only two and the only white girl).

But we're bailing. Not only do the classes get less diverse as you move up, but I'm realizing a lot of it isn't really even about race, it's culture and class. We've worked really hard to build relationships with other families at the school and even been successful to a degree. But we can never, ever shake the feeling that we, and our DD, are outsiders. Like even though we spend time with these families outside of school, the kids have developed friendships, etc., and everyone gets along and is friendly, there is just this very clear dividing line where we are the "nice white family" and DD is "the white girl" no matter what. We've given it three years and we are finally accepting that it's not going to get better.

Again, this isn't about people being unkind or my child being bullied. She's lonely at times, but not bullied. We just don't feel like we fit in because the school is overwhelming families from a specific race and background and we are not. It's just really lonely. It can also be stressful because there is no way for DD to blend in or get lost in the crowd, and sometimes as a kid that's what you want. She also will gravitate instinctively towards other white kids at school only to find that she doesn't really fit with them either.

But while we are leaving after this year, I will say that everything I just wrote has been very enlightening for me (and hopefully for DD) in terms of what it is like to navigate overwhelmingly white spaces as a black person, or to be an immigrant. I'm not saying it's the exact same experience, but it's closer than anything I've ever done before. I hope we all carry that knowledge forward and it contributes to empathy and understanding. But we want to feel like we belong -- I think that's a really normal, human feeling and I don't feel guilty for deciding to move to a school where we can have that. I hope everyone else finds that too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My kid is at a heavily AA school (>90%) and is white. I thought we could do it, especially when we got to PK and it turns out these grades are more diverse (i.e. she was not the only white kid in class, though she was one of only two and the only white girl).

But we're bailing. Not only do the classes get less diverse as you move up, but I'm realizing a lot of it isn't really even about race, it's culture and class. We've worked really hard to build relationships with other families at the school and even been successful to a degree. But we can never, ever shake the feeling that we, and our DD, are outsiders. Like even though we spend time with these families outside of school, the kids have developed friendships, etc., and everyone gets along and is friendly, there is just this very clear dividing line where we are the "nice white family" and DD is "the white girl" no matter what. We've given it three years and we are finally accepting that it's not going to get better.

Again, this isn't about people being unkind or my child being bullied. She's lonely at times, but not bullied. We just don't feel like we fit in because the school is overwhelming families from a specific race and background and we are not. It's just really lonely. It can also be stressful because there is no way for DD to blend in or get lost in the crowd, and sometimes as a kid that's what you want. She also will gravitate instinctively towards other white kids at school only to find that she doesn't really fit with them either.

But while we are leaving after this year, I will say that everything I just wrote has been very enlightening for me (and hopefully for DD) in terms of what it is like to navigate overwhelmingly white spaces as a black person, or to be an immigrant. I'm not saying it's the exact same experience, but it's closer than anything I've ever done before. I hope we all carry that knowledge forward and it contributes to empathy and understanding. But we want to feel like we belong -- I think that's a really normal, human feeling and I don't feel guilty for deciding to move to a school where we can have that. I hope everyone else finds that too.

This is the lived experience of many people of color, except that we often don't have any other options to being the "only" or minority.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My kid is at a heavily AA school (>90%) and is white. I thought we could do it, especially when we got to PK and it turns out these grades are more diverse (i.e. she was not the only white kid in class, though she was one of only two and the only white girl).

But we're bailing. Not only do the classes get less diverse as you move up, but I'm realizing a lot of it isn't really even about race, it's culture and class. We've worked really hard to build relationships with other families at the school and even been successful to a degree. But we can never, ever shake the feeling that we, and our DD, are outsiders. Like even though we spend time with these families outside of school, the kids have developed friendships, etc., and everyone gets along and is friendly, there is just this very clear dividing line where we are the "nice white family" and DD is "the white girl" no matter what. We've given it three years and we are finally accepting that it's not going to get better.

Again, this isn't about people being unkind or my child being bullied. She's lonely at times, but not bullied. We just don't feel like we fit in because the school is overwhelming families from a specific race and background and we are not. It's just really lonely. It can also be stressful because there is no way for DD to blend in or get lost in the crowd, and sometimes as a kid that's what you want. She also will gravitate instinctively towards other white kids at school only to find that she doesn't really fit with them either.

But while we are leaving after this year, I will say that everything I just wrote has been very enlightening for me (and hopefully for DD) in terms of what it is like to navigate overwhelmingly white spaces as a black person, or to be an immigrant. I'm not saying it's the exact same experience, but it's closer than anything I've ever done before. I hope we all carry that knowledge forward and it contributes to empathy and understanding. But we want to feel like we belong -- I think that's a really normal, human feeling and I don't feel guilty for deciding to move to a school where we can have that. I hope everyone else finds that too.

Lovely and true post.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kid is at a heavily AA school (>90%) and is white. I thought we could do it, especially when we got to PK and it turns out these grades are more diverse (i.e. she was not the only white kid in class, though she was one of only two and the only white girl).

But we're bailing. Not only do the classes get less diverse as you move up, but I'm realizing a lot of it isn't really even about race, it's culture and class. We've worked really hard to build relationships with other families at the school and even been successful to a degree. But we can never, ever shake the feeling that we, and our DD, are outsiders. Like even though we spend time with these families outside of school, the kids have developed friendships, etc., and everyone gets along and is friendly, there is just this very clear dividing line where we are the "nice white family" and DD is "the white girl" no matter what. We've given it three years and we are finally accepting that it's not going to get better.

Again, this isn't about people being unkind or my child being bullied. She's lonely at times, but not bullied. We just don't feel like we fit in because the school is overwhelming families from a specific race and background and we are not. It's just really lonely. It can also be stressful because there is no way for DD to blend in or get lost in the crowd, and sometimes as a kid that's what you want. She also will gravitate instinctively towards other white kids at school only to find that she doesn't really fit with them either.

But while we are leaving after this year, I will say that everything I just wrote has been very enlightening for me (and hopefully for DD) in terms of what it is like to navigate overwhelmingly white spaces as a black person, or to be an immigrant. I'm not saying it's the exact same experience, but it's closer than anything I've ever done before. I hope we all carry that knowledge forward and it contributes to empathy and understanding. But we want to feel like we belong -- I think that's a really normal, human feeling and I don't feel guilty for deciding to move to a school where we can have that. I hope everyone else finds that too.

This is the lived experience of many people of color, except that we often don't have any other options to being the "only" or minority.

Ummmm, pretty sure PP to whom you replied just made and acknowledged that point.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kid is at a heavily AA school (>90%) and is white. I thought we could do it, especially when we got to PK and it turns out these grades are more diverse (i.e. she was not the only white kid in class, though she was one of only two and the only white girl).

But we're bailing. Not only do the classes get less diverse as you move up, but I'm realizing a lot of it isn't really even about race, it's culture and class. We've worked really hard to build relationships with other families at the school and even been successful to a degree. But we can never, ever shake the feeling that we, and our DD, are outsiders. Like even though we spend time with these families outside of school, the kids have developed friendships, etc., and everyone gets along and is friendly, there is just this very clear dividing line where we are the "nice white family" and DD is "the white girl" no matter what. We've given it three years and we are finally accepting that it's not going to get better.

Again, this isn't about people being unkind or my child being bullied. She's lonely at times, but not bullied. We just don't feel like we fit in because the school is overwhelming families from a specific race and background and we are not. It's just really lonely. It can also be stressful because there is no way for DD to blend in or get lost in the crowd, and sometimes as a kid that's what you want. She also will gravitate instinctively towards other white kids at school only to find that she doesn't really fit with them either.

But while we are leaving after this year, I will say that everything I just wrote has been very enlightening for me (and hopefully for DD) in terms of what it is like to navigate overwhelmingly white spaces as a black person, or to be an immigrant. I'm not saying it's the exact same experience, but it's closer than anything I've ever done before. I hope we all carry that knowledge forward and it contributes to empathy and understanding. But we want to feel like we belong -- I think that's a really normal, human feeling and I don't feel guilty for deciding to move to a school where we can have that. I hope everyone else finds that too.

This is the lived experience of many people of color, except that we often don't have any other options to being the "only" or minority.

Some of these are simply mechanical realities of being the minority which is why tribalism is a thing. Problems arise when there is a power imbalance which incentivizes sticking to ones side vs having to venture out for opportunities. All of that said forever will be the case no matter how we define tribes as there will always be inside and out and it will always suck to be outside. Even some ideal of "individual merit" will oppress the meritless how ever specific it is defined.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kid is at a heavily AA school (>90%) and is white. I thought we could do it, especially when we got to PK and it turns out these grades are more diverse (i.e. she was not the only white kid in class, though she was one of only two and the only white girl).

But we're bailing. Not only do the classes get less diverse as you move up, but I'm realizing a lot of it isn't really even about race, it's culture and class. We've worked really hard to build relationships with other families at the school and even been successful to a degree. But we can never, ever shake the feeling that we, and our DD, are outsiders. Like even though we spend time with these families outside of school, the kids have developed friendships, etc., and everyone gets along and is friendly, there is just this very clear dividing line where we are the "nice white family" and DD is "the white girl" no matter what. We've given it three years and we are finally accepting that it's not going to get better.

Again, this isn't about people being unkind or my child being bullied. She's lonely at times, but not bullied. We just don't feel like we fit in because the school is overwhelming families from a specific race and background and we are not. It's just really lonely. It can also be stressful because there is no way for DD to blend in or get lost in the crowd, and sometimes as a kid that's what you want. She also will gravitate instinctively towards other white kids at school only to find that she doesn't really fit with them either.

But while we are leaving after this year, I will say that everything I just wrote has been very enlightening for me (and hopefully for DD) in terms of what it is like to navigate overwhelmingly white spaces as a black person, or to be an immigrant. I'm not saying it's the exact same experience, but it's closer than anything I've ever done before. I hope we all carry that knowledge forward and it contributes to empathy and understanding. But we want to feel like we belong -- I think that's a really normal, human feeling and I don't feel guilty for deciding to move to a school where we can have that. I hope everyone else finds that too.

This is the lived experience of many people of color, except that we often don't have any other options to being the "only" or minority.

Agreed, but I also would not judge any POC who was in this situation and decided to leave for a more diverse environment where they would not feel so isolated. And while this was true for a lot of trailblazers in fields a generation ago, POC do have more options now and will rightfully exercise them. For instance, if you were a black corporate lawyer in the 80s, you may not have had any choice but to be the only black person at your firm. Same with POC going into media, medicine, and other fields. But now that's less true. There are absolutely POC who will leave less diverse workplaces and go to companies with not only more POC but more POC in leadership positions. That's something I support and applaud, and is a reason I think it's important to create diverse spaces.

The point is, if someone who is an extreme minority (i.e. the only or one of only a small handful) decided they are going to go somewhere where there is a bit more critical mass of their race, or gender, or religion, or nationality, I'm not going to judge them. They are making a choice based on what it feels like, day after day, to feel like you don't fit. That's stressful. Everyone deserves to feel like they belong, but ESPECIALLY children going to school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kid is at a heavily AA school (>90%) and is white. I thought we could do it, especially when we got to PK and it turns out these grades are more diverse (i.e. she was not the only white kid in class, though she was one of only two and the only white girl).

But we're bailing. Not only do the classes get less diverse as you move up, but I'm realizing a lot of it isn't really even about race, it's culture and class. We've worked really hard to build relationships with other families at the school and even been successful to a degree. But we can never, ever shake the feeling that we, and our DD, are outsiders. Like even though we spend time with these families outside of school, the kids have developed friendships, etc., and everyone gets along and is friendly, there is just this very clear dividing line where we are the "nice white family" and DD is "the white girl" no matter what. We've given it three years and we are finally accepting that it's not going to get better.

Again, this isn't about people being unkind or my child being bullied. She's lonely at times, but not bullied. We just don't feel like we fit in because the school is overwhelming families from a specific race and background and we are not. It's just really lonely. It can also be stressful because there is no way for DD to blend in or get lost in the crowd, and sometimes as a kid that's what you want. She also will gravitate instinctively towards other white kids at school only to find that she doesn't really fit with them either.

But while we are leaving after this year, I will say that everything I just wrote has been very enlightening for me (and hopefully for DD) in terms of what it is like to navigate overwhelmingly white spaces as a black person, or to be an immigrant. I'm not saying it's the exact same experience, but it's closer than anything I've ever done before. I hope we all carry that knowledge forward and it contributes to empathy and understanding. But we want to feel like we belong -- I think that's a really normal, human feeling and I don't feel guilty for deciding to move to a school where we can have that. I hope everyone else finds that too.

This is the lived experience of many people of color, except that we often don't have any other options to being the "only" or minority.

I am confused about your meaning. Are you suggesting that because some people do not the resources to make alternate choices that no one should be able to opt out of an "only" situation?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No, I would not. Why are you contemplating it? Are the academics fantastic? Is it a great environment? What else do you know about this school other than the demographics?

School is where your child will spend the vast majority of his/her waking hours. Let them be happy at school. Don't make every aspect of their school existence a lesson of some sort.

I truly believe there are about 5% of DCUM parents who really prioritize sending their kid to a very diverse school. The rest of us care about diversity but care about academics and environment more. Diversity is a nice to have.

This is true for white parents. for POC, diversity actually is a priority, bc we don't want our kids to be the "only" and subject to horrific racism. So we are searching for a school that has it all -- academics and diversity.

Definitely agreeing with you here PP. Black/Latino kids will be treated like trash in all white schools.

Cite?

ask any black or brown person who was the only non-white person at school. believe them when they tell you their experience.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kids have been in majority black schools, ES and HS. There have been minimal problems. I’m not sure what you fear about your kid being in the minority. I don’t know why you post this? Do you want us to come reassure you that you’re not racist? What do you think it’s like to be one of the few white kids? From my observation, it’s not like being the only minority because there is something broken in white culture.

OP said being one of one or two kids. Is this your child's experience? I'd check in with them--there's lots to be concerned about, just like if your child were the only AA child in an all-other race school.

Uh yes, I have talked with my kids about it. And yes, my kid was one of two white kids. The other is in HS and is one of 6 white kids in a class of ~140. No, it is not the same as a minority in an all white school. White culture is pretty cruel. The other families have been very open and friendly. My outgoing child has a ton of friends. My other more introverted child has friends but not as many. But I also realize this is DCUM where people are open to ideas of diversity but reject it because of “class” or “other reasons”.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I truly value a diverse environment for my children. I want them to interact with and befriend people from all walks of life - economically, perspective, experience, racially and ethnically. Diversity isn't a buzzword for me - I truly see the value in it, across a variety of contexts.

My children are white. I would never send them to a school that was 95% white. I'm upper middle class, closer to upper class than middle class, I think (HHI - $200k). I would never send them to a school that was 95% UMC or wealthy.

However there is a flip side - there are many schools in DC that are <1% white. Is it racist for me to be uncomfortable sending my kid there? It feels like a lot to ask of a 14 year old to be one of two white kids in his whole grade. No one wants their kid to stand out, or to feel like they don't belong.

Is that a bad thing? I'm honestly wondering. Particularly interested in the opinion of people of color - I know it's not your job to educate me on matters of race, but I really struggle with this one, so any help would be appreciated.

I know that schools on both ends of this (95% white, and <1% white) are the result of policies of racism and discrimination that continue to this day, and I want to be a good citizen and a good neighbor and help to dismantle this. But there are much bigger societal forces at play. I'd love to hear people's thoughts on this matter.

I think many factors go into this, one kid may benefit, other would have neutral experience but third may face issues. School's cumulative environment and immediate friend group may matter as well. I think this is not a one size fits all problem.

[Anonymous]

One of mine attended a school were he could literally count his minority peers on fingers, faced some issues but overall came out confident, understanding and accepting.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:i have a few thoughts on this:

1. one of my high-achieving black friends pointed out to me recently that for her moms generation, right after desgregation, black people were willing to fight their way into recently desgregated "white" schools because they KNEW that those schools were better resourced and that kids were getting a better education. They were willing to face the racism they knew was coming for them for that opportunity.

2. many of us grew up that way -- as the only POC in a white school -- and are deeply traumatized by that experience and would never want it for our children. We want our kids to experience a happy, innocent childhood, to never feel "less than," AND to learn.

3. I'm a non-black POC who was the only non-white person in my class. I'm Asian. I was not with academic peers -- i was the only kid in my class to place in a few different national math competitions, i had the highest tested IQ in my grade, but still, the myth of white supremacy permeated that school because of the demographics and stuck on me.

4. POC have a much more complicated school choice decision tree than white people do. White people can send their kids to a very white school and not have to worry about the racism bit at all, because their child will not experience it. Will their kids experience some negative side effects (they may become more racist, be less likely to see the humanity in people of color?)? maybe. but i rarely meet white people who are concerned about that.

5. School integration is a dream that the civil rights movement initiated. we have not achieved it. I really believe that everyone would benefit from going to a school that feels truly integrated, with children of all different races. what can we all do to achieve that goal?

Are we all gonna let this obvious lie go? There's no school that gives real IQ tests to all of their kids. It's unnecessary for nearly all children, expensive, very time consuming and requires a qualified psychologist. And no school is going to share the results of the tests they DO conduct with other students.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kids have been in majority black schools, ES and HS. There have been minimal problems. I’m not sure what you fear about your kid being in the minority. I don’t know why you post this? Do you want us to come reassure you that you’re not racist? What do you think it’s like to be one of the few white kids? From my observation, it’s not like being the only minority because there is something broken in white culture.

OP said being one of one or two kids. Is this your child's experience? I'd check in with them--there's lots to be concerned about, just like if your child were the only AA child in an all-other race school.

Uh yes, I have talked with my kids about it. And yes, my kid was one of two white kids. The other is in HS and is one of 6 white kids in a class of ~140. No, it is not the same as a minority in an all white school. White culture is pretty cruel. The other families have been very open and friendly. My outgoing child has a ton of friends. My other more introverted child has friends but not as many. But I also realize this is DCUM where people are open to ideas of diversity but reject it because of “class” or “other reasons”.

I am glad you had this experience. It was not my experience. I found it very lonely. If I were you I might check in with my more introverted child. They may be worried about disappointing you or not living up to the other sister or brothers experience. I did not bring in class, but actually I had a much better experience as an only at a different middle /upper class school. My attitudes towards education were mor akin and I found the classroom to be a less lonely space.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kids have been in majority black schools, ES and HS. There have been minimal problems. I’m not sure what you fear about your kid being in the minority. I don’t know why you post this? Do you want us to come reassure you that you’re not racist? What do you think it’s like to be one of the few white kids? From my observation, it’s not like being the only minority because there is something broken in white culture.

OP said being one of one or two kids. Is this your child's experience? I'd check in with them--there's lots to be concerned about, just like if your child were the only AA child in an all-other race school.

Uh yes, I have talked with my kids about it. And yes, my kid was one of two white kids. The other is in HS and is one of 6 white kids in a class of ~140. No, it is not the same as a minority in an all white school. White culture is pretty cruel. The other families have been very open and friendly. My outgoing child has a ton of friends. My other more introverted child has friends but not as many. But I also realize this is DCUM where people are open to ideas of diversity but reject it because of “class” or “other reasons”.

I am glad you had this experience. It was not my experience. I found it very lonely. If I were you I might check in with my more introverted child. They may be worried about disappointing you or not living up to the other sister or brothers experience. I did not bring in class, but actually I had a much better experience as an only at a different middle /upper class school. My attitudes towards education were mor akin and I found the classroom to be a less lonely space.

No need to project your experience onto my kids. I don’t need your parenting advice, random stranger on the internet.