Zelensky can’t be trusted - Tom Friedman, NYT

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Despite massive western aid, Ukraine has failed to recapture significant territory this summer. It’s a stalemate.

Uh, Russia was supposed to take the whole country in three days.

A quagmire is never good for the "superpower"

Agreed.

Beginning of the war that was my aim.

Arm Ukrainians to bleed Russians. Turn Ukraine into afghanistan at Russia’s doorstep.

Now…I dunno how long we can keep this boil up before Western Europe melts down sócio-politically-economically.

What is the Pareto solution to bleed Russians and maintain order in Western Europe?

Did you ask Ukraine if they want to be Afghanistan? Afghanistan is your role model here? Is any country in the world wishing to be like Afghanistan?

Ukrainians don’t get a say to be honest. That is the nature of Slavic history.

There was a strategic opening, america took it.

Trust me, if europe was more economically risilient, pumping 30-50 billion a year in arms to turn Ukraine into Afghanistan right on the doorstep of Russia is a HUGE geostrategic win and cost effective.

We could do it indefinitely and use Ukraine as sandpaper to shave down russia slowly, methodically.

Ukraine will run out of people before Russia, and Ukraine may decide that it's in their best interest to reconcile with Russia than to be an American toilet or sand paper. Don't you think? They may look at Afghanistan and think gee, what did this all American support get them? They got discarded the second the wind blew elsewhere.

I'd rather be an American toilet than a Russian toilet, tbh. At least America doesn't share videos of the castration of POWs like Russia does.

Cough cough

Cough cough yourself. Yes, those prisoners were abused, but they weren't castrated.
And the Americans doing the torturing were punished. The Russian castrators were celebrated by Russia. So your whataboutism doesn't apply.

What do you mean, whataboutism? You said "Americans never!" and I supplied evidence to the contrary. I didn't know you place such a red line between castration and other forms of abuse.

Of course it's always different when Americans are doing it! It's...more virtuous somehow!

You did not supply evidence to the contrary. You said Americans don't share videos of POW castration. And, yeah, getting castrated is something you'll never physically or mentally recover from. Are you trying to argue it isn't?

I also never said that American torturing was virtuous in anyway, and said at least the torturers were punished, so now you're just flat out lying.

I'm trying to argue torture isn't limited to castration, and Americans have dabbled in it as enthusiastically as Russians.

Besides, this is the war of information, and both sides are using it as a weapon. Mass rape reports, especially baby rape, so wept over here, turned out fake. The tearjerker of "writing on backs of toddlers so they don't get lost in Russia" was fake. Therefore, I'm quite willing to believe that the castration video is another fake. Time will tell.

Well, that's not much of an argument, of course torture isn't limited to castration. But the filming and broadcasting of castration takes it up another notch. No Americans have done that, so they haven't dabbled in ad enthusiastically as Russians.

The rape reports weren't fake, you just want to believe they were, for some strange reason.

There is no reporting on this war. You should know that. Only propaganda, from both sides.

Russia invaded with no provocation from Ukraine. There is no "both sides" here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Despite massive western aid, Ukraine has failed to recapture significant territory this summer. It’s a stalemate.

Uh, Russia was supposed to take the whole country in three days.

A quagmire is never good for the "superpower"

Agreed.

Beginning of the war that was my aim.

Arm Ukrainians to bleed Russians. Turn Ukraine into afghanistan at Russia’s doorstep.

Now…I dunno how long we can keep this boil up before Western Europe melts down sócio-politically-economically.

What is the Pareto solution to bleed Russians and maintain order in Western Europe?

Did you ask Ukraine if they want to be Afghanistan? Afghanistan is your role model here? Is any country in the world wishing to be like Afghanistan?

Ukrainians don’t get a say to be honest. That is the nature of Slavic history.

There was a strategic opening, america took it.

Trust me, if europe was more economically risilient, pumping 30-50 billion a year in arms to turn Ukraine into Afghanistan right on the doorstep of Russia is a HUGE geostrategic win and cost effective.

We could do it indefinitely and use Ukraine as sandpaper to shave down russia slowly, methodically.

Ukraine will run out of people before Russia, and Ukraine may decide that it's in their best interest to reconcile with Russia than to be an American toilet or sand paper. Don't you think? They may look at Afghanistan and think gee, what did this all American support get them? They got discarded the second the wind blew elsewhere.

I'd rather be an American toilet than a Russian toilet, tbh. At least America doesn't share videos of the castration of POWs like Russia does.

Cough cough

Cough cough yourself. Yes, those prisoners were abused, but they weren't castrated.
And the Americans doing the torturing were punished. The Russian castrators were celebrated by Russia. So your whataboutism doesn't apply.

What do you mean, whataboutism? You said "Americans never!" and I supplied evidence to the contrary. I didn't know you place such a red line between castration and other forms of abuse.

Of course it's always different when Americans are doing it! It's...more virtuous somehow!

You did not supply evidence to the contrary. You said Americans don't share videos of POW castration. And, yeah, getting castrated is something you'll never physically or mentally recover from. Are you trying to argue it isn't?

I also never said that American torturing was virtuous in anyway, and said at least the torturers were punished, so now you're just flat out lying.

I'm trying to argue torture isn't limited to castration, and Americans have dabbled in it as enthusiastically as Russians.

Besides, this is the war of information, and both sides are using it as a weapon. Mass rape reports, especially baby rape, so wept over here, turned out fake. The tearjerker of "writing on backs of toddlers so they don't get lost in Russia" was fake. Therefore, I'm quite willing to believe that the castration video is another fake. Time will tell.

Well, that's not much of an argument, of course torture isn't limited to castration. But the filming and broadcasting of castration takes it up another notch. No Americans have done that, so they haven't dabbled in ad enthusiastically as Russians.

The rape reports weren't fake, you just want to believe they were, for some strange reason.

https://www.newsweek.com/lyudmila-denisova-ukraine-commissioner-human-rights-removed-russian-sexual-assault-claims-1711680

The letter from the journalists indicated how reports from Denisova went into great detail about the alleged rape of children, some as young as 6 months old, by Russians.

The letter also criticized Denisova for including details of cases that the journalists said were unverified and asked her to "check the facts before publication" and "disclose only information for which there is sufficient evidence."

... provided a number of reasons why Denisova was removed, including "the numerous details of 'unnatural sexual offenses' and child sexual abuses in the occupied territories, which were unsupported by evidence and only harmed Ukraine."

She got fired because they didn't like the way she publicized the allegations, not because the allegations were false. And they haven't been proven to be false. Also, she was only fired by a 10 vote margin, 230-220.

I guess the word "unverified" and "unsupported by evidence" is just there for shots and giggles?

No one needs to prove they are false. The way it works she needs to prove they are correct.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Despite massive western aid, Ukraine has failed to recapture significant territory this summer. It’s a stalemate.

Uh, Russia was supposed to take the whole country in three days.

A quagmire is never good for the "superpower"

Agreed.

Beginning of the war that was my aim.

Arm Ukrainians to bleed Russians. Turn Ukraine into afghanistan at Russia’s doorstep.

Now…I dunno how long we can keep this boil up before Western Europe melts down sócio-politically-economically.

What is the Pareto solution to bleed Russians and maintain order in Western Europe?

Did you ask Ukraine if they want to be Afghanistan? Afghanistan is your role model here? Is any country in the world wishing to be like Afghanistan?

Ukrainians don’t get a say to be honest. That is the nature of Slavic history.

There was a strategic opening, america took it.

Trust me, if europe was more economically risilient, pumping 30-50 billion a year in arms to turn Ukraine into Afghanistan right on the doorstep of Russia is a HUGE geostrategic win and cost effective.

We could do it indefinitely and use Ukraine as sandpaper to shave down russia slowly, methodically.

Ukraine will run out of people before Russia, and Ukraine may decide that it's in their best interest to reconcile with Russia than to be an American toilet or sand paper. Don't you think? They may look at Afghanistan and think gee, what did this all American support get them? They got discarded the second the wind blew elsewhere.

I'd rather be an American toilet than a Russian toilet, tbh. At least America doesn't share videos of the castration of POWs like Russia does.

Cough cough

Cough cough yourself. Yes, those prisoners were abused, but they weren't castrated.
And the Americans doing the torturing were punished. The Russian castrators were celebrated by Russia. So your whataboutism doesn't apply.

What do you mean, whataboutism? You said "Americans never!" and I supplied evidence to the contrary. I didn't know you place such a red line between castration and other forms of abuse.

Of course it's always different when Americans are doing it! It's...more virtuous somehow!

You did not supply evidence to the contrary. You said Americans don't share videos of POW castration. And, yeah, getting castrated is something you'll never physically or mentally recover from. Are you trying to argue it isn't?

I also never said that American torturing was virtuous in anyway, and said at least the torturers were punished, so now you're just flat out lying.

I'm trying to argue torture isn't limited to castration, and Americans have dabbled in it as enthusiastically as Russians.

Besides, this is the war of information, and both sides are using it as a weapon. Mass rape reports, especially baby rape, so wept over here, turned out fake. The tearjerker of "writing on backs of toddlers so they don't get lost in Russia" was fake. Therefore, I'm quite willing to believe that the castration video is another fake. Time will tell.

Well, that's not much of an argument, of course torture isn't limited to castration. But the filming and broadcasting of castration takes it up another notch. No Americans have done that, so they haven't dabbled in ad enthusiastically as Russians.

The rape reports weren't fake, you just want to believe they were, for some strange reason.

There is no reporting on this war. You should know that. Only propaganda, from both sides.

Russia invaded with no provocation from Ukraine. There is no "both sides" here.

Both sides of this conflict, beyond doubt, engage in propaganda.

Recollections vary as to whether it was provoked. But hey, the talking points say "unprovoked", therefore it must be.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Despite massive western aid, Ukraine has failed to recapture significant territory this summer. It’s a stalemate.

Uh, Russia was supposed to take the whole country in three days.

A quagmire is never good for the "superpower"

Agreed.

Beginning of the war that was my aim.

Arm Ukrainians to bleed Russians. Turn Ukraine into afghanistan at Russia’s doorstep.

Now…I dunno how long we can keep this boil up before Western Europe melts down sócio-politically-economically.

What is the Pareto solution to bleed Russians and maintain order in Western Europe?

Did you ask Ukraine if they want to be Afghanistan? Afghanistan is your role model here? Is any country in the world wishing to be like Afghanistan?

Ukrainians don’t get a say to be honest. That is the nature of Slavic history.

There was a strategic opening, america took it.

Trust me, if europe was more economically risilient, pumping 30-50 billion a year in arms to turn Ukraine into Afghanistan right on the doorstep of Russia is a HUGE geostrategic win and cost effective.

We could do it indefinitely and use Ukraine as sandpaper to shave down russia slowly, methodically.

Ukraine will run out of people before Russia, and Ukraine may decide that it's in their best interest to reconcile with Russia than to be an American toilet or sand paper. Don't you think? They may look at Afghanistan and think gee, what did this all American support get them? They got discarded the second the wind blew elsewhere.

I'd rather be an American toilet than a Russian toilet, tbh. At least America doesn't share videos of the castration of POWs like Russia does.

Cough cough

Cough cough yourself. Yes, those prisoners were abused, but they weren't castrated.
And the Americans doing the torturing were punished. The Russian castrators were celebrated by Russia. So your whataboutism doesn't apply.

What do you mean, whataboutism? You said "Americans never!" and I supplied evidence to the contrary. I didn't know you place such a red line between castration and other forms of abuse.

Of course it's always different when Americans are doing it! It's...more virtuous somehow!

You did not supply evidence to the contrary. You said Americans don't share videos of POW castration. And, yeah, getting castrated is something you'll never physically or mentally recover from. Are you trying to argue it isn't?

I also never said that American torturing was virtuous in anyway, and said at least the torturers were punished, so now you're just flat out lying.

I'm trying to argue torture isn't limited to castration, and Americans have dabbled in it as enthusiastically as Russians.

Besides, this is the war of information, and both sides are using it as a weapon. Mass rape reports, especially baby rape, so wept over here, turned out fake. The tearjerker of "writing on backs of toddlers so they don't get lost in Russia" was fake. Therefore, I'm quite willing to believe that the castration video is another fake. Time will tell.

Well, that's not much of an argument, of course torture isn't limited to castration. But the filming and broadcasting of castration takes it up another notch. No Americans have done that, so they haven't dabbled in ad enthusiastically as Russians.

The rape reports weren't fake, you just want to believe they were, for some strange reason.

There is no reporting on this war. You should know that. Only propaganda, from both sides.

Russia invaded with no provocation from Ukraine. There is no "both sides" here.

Both sides of this conflict, beyond doubt, engage in propaganda.

Recollections vary as to whether it was provoked. But hey, the talking points say "unprovoked", therefore it must be.

Hey, lets just believe anything we want, we can do that when we label anything that contradicts how we want things to be as "talking points" by the "media". It's all a big conspiracy! Poor Russia was forced to pillage, rape and murder innocent civilians!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Despite massive western aid, Ukraine has failed to recapture significant territory this summer. It’s a stalemate.

Uh, Russia was supposed to take the whole country in three days.

A quagmire is never good for the "superpower"

Agreed.

Beginning of the war that was my aim.

Arm Ukrainians to bleed Russians. Turn Ukraine into afghanistan at Russia’s doorstep.

Now…I dunno how long we can keep this boil up before Western Europe melts down sócio-politically-economically.

What is the Pareto solution to bleed Russians and maintain order in Western Europe?

Did you ask Ukraine if they want to be Afghanistan? Afghanistan is your role model here? Is any country in the world wishing to be like Afghanistan?

Ukrainians don’t get a say to be honest. That is the nature of Slavic history.

There was a strategic opening, america took it.

Trust me, if europe was more economically risilient, pumping 30-50 billion a year in arms to turn Ukraine into Afghanistan right on the doorstep of Russia is a HUGE geostrategic win and cost effective.

We could do it indefinitely and use Ukraine as sandpaper to shave down russia slowly, methodically.

Ukraine will run out of people before Russia, and Ukraine may decide that it's in their best interest to reconcile with Russia than to be an American toilet or sand paper. Don't you think? They may look at Afghanistan and think gee, what did this all American support get them? They got discarded the second the wind blew elsewhere.

I'd rather be an American toilet than a Russian toilet, tbh. At least America doesn't share videos of the castration of POWs like Russia does.

Cough cough

Cough cough yourself. Yes, those prisoners were abused, but they weren't castrated.
And the Americans doing the torturing were punished. The Russian castrators were celebrated by Russia. So your whataboutism doesn't apply.

What do you mean, whataboutism? You said "Americans never!" and I supplied evidence to the contrary. I didn't know you place such a red line between castration and other forms of abuse.

Of course it's always different when Americans are doing it! It's...more virtuous somehow!

You did not supply evidence to the contrary. You said Americans don't share videos of POW castration. And, yeah, getting castrated is something you'll never physically or mentally recover from. Are you trying to argue it isn't?

I also never said that American torturing was virtuous in anyway, and said at least the torturers were punished, so now you're just flat out lying.

I'm trying to argue torture isn't limited to castration, and Americans have dabbled in it as enthusiastically as Russians.

Besides, this is the war of information, and both sides are using it as a weapon. Mass rape reports, especially baby rape, so wept over here, turned out fake. The tearjerker of "writing on backs of toddlers so they don't get lost in Russia" was fake. Therefore, I'm quite willing to believe that the castration video is another fake. Time will tell.

Well, that's not much of an argument, of course torture isn't limited to castration. But the filming and broadcasting of castration takes it up another notch. No Americans have done that, so they haven't dabbled in ad enthusiastically as Russians.

The rape reports weren't fake, you just want to believe they were, for some strange reason.

https://www.newsweek.com/lyudmila-denisova-ukraine-commissioner-human-rights-removed-russian-sexual-assault-claims-1711680

The letter from the journalists indicated how reports from Denisova went into great detail about the alleged rape of children, some as young as 6 months old, by Russians.

The letter also criticized Denisova for including details of cases that the journalists said were unverified and asked her to "check the facts before publication" and "disclose only information for which there is sufficient evidence."

... provided a number of reasons why Denisova was removed, including "the numerous details of 'unnatural sexual offenses' and child sexual abuses in the occupied territories, which were unsupported by evidence and only harmed Ukraine."

She got fired because they didn't like the way she publicized the allegations, not because the allegations were false. And they haven't been proven to be false. Also, she was only fired by a 10 vote margin, 230-220.

I guess the word "unverified" and "unsupported by evidence" is just there for shots and giggles?

No one needs to prove they are false. The way it works she needs to prove they are correct.

Given the number and history of Russia's other atrocities that have been proven, the allegations from the Ukraine invasion get the benefit of the doubt.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Despite massive western aid, Ukraine has failed to recapture significant territory this summer. It’s a stalemate.

Uh, Russia was supposed to take the whole country in three days.

A quagmire is never good for the "superpower"

Agreed.

Beginning of the war that was my aim.

Arm Ukrainians to bleed Russians. Turn Ukraine into afghanistan at Russia’s doorstep.

Now…I dunno how long we can keep this boil up before Western Europe melts down sócio-politically-economically.

What is the Pareto solution to bleed Russians and maintain order in Western Europe?

Did you ask Ukraine if they want to be Afghanistan? Afghanistan is your role model here? Is any country in the world wishing to be like Afghanistan?

Ukrainians don’t get a say to be honest. That is the nature of Slavic history.

There was a strategic opening, america took it.

Trust me, if europe was more economically risilient, pumping 30-50 billion a year in arms to turn Ukraine into Afghanistan right on the doorstep of Russia is a HUGE geostrategic win and cost effective.

We could do it indefinitely and use Ukraine as sandpaper to shave down russia slowly, methodically.

Ukraine will run out of people before Russia, and Ukraine may decide that it's in their best interest to reconcile with Russia than to be an American toilet or sand paper. Don't you think? They may look at Afghanistan and think gee, what did this all American support get them? They got discarded the second the wind blew elsewhere.

I'd rather be an American toilet than a Russian toilet, tbh. At least America doesn't share videos of the castration of POWs like Russia does.

Cough cough

Cough cough yourself. Yes, those prisoners were abused, but they weren't castrated.
And the Americans doing the torturing were punished. The Russian castrators were celebrated by Russia. So your whataboutism doesn't apply.

What do you mean, whataboutism? You said "Americans never!" and I supplied evidence to the contrary. I didn't know you place such a red line between castration and other forms of abuse.

Of course it's always different when Americans are doing it! It's...more virtuous somehow!

You did not supply evidence to the contrary. You said Americans don't share videos of POW castration. And, yeah, getting castrated is something you'll never physically or mentally recover from. Are you trying to argue it isn't?

I also never said that American torturing was virtuous in anyway, and said at least the torturers were punished, so now you're just flat out lying.

I'm trying to argue torture isn't limited to castration, and Americans have dabbled in it as enthusiastically as Russians.

Besides, this is the war of information, and both sides are using it as a weapon. Mass rape reports, especially baby rape, so wept over here, turned out fake. The tearjerker of "writing on backs of toddlers so they don't get lost in Russia" was fake. Therefore, I'm quite willing to believe that the castration video is another fake. Time will tell.

Well, that's not much of an argument, of course torture isn't limited to castration. But the filming and broadcasting of castration takes it up another notch. No Americans have done that, so they haven't dabbled in ad enthusiastically as Russians.

The rape reports weren't fake, you just want to believe they were, for some strange reason.

There is no reporting on this war. You should know that. Only propaganda, from both sides.

Russia invaded with no provocation from Ukraine. There is no "both sides" here.

Both sides of this conflict, beyond doubt, engage in propaganda.

Recollections vary as to whether it was provoked. But hey, the talking points say "unprovoked", therefore it must be.

Hey, lets just believe anything we want, we can do that when we label anything that contradicts how we want things to be as "talking points" by the "media". It's all a big conspiracy! Poor Russia was forced to pillage, rape and murder innocent civilians!

That the coverage of the war in Ukraine in the US is based on an ongoing effort of Ukraine's PR consultancies is clear to anyone with passing knowledge of how this particular sausage is made. Unless you think Vogue just wakes up one day and say, hey, let's feature the Zelenskys! They'll make great copy!

You're consuming processed foods and it's kind of funny how you insist that it's completely fresh and unaltered and just off the tree.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's amazing the amount of mental contortions some people are willing to make in defense of Russia's atrocities (raping babies, sharing video of POW castration) yet they are so quick to condemn America.

What's even more amazing is how easily most people swallow prepackaged "news" without asking where it came from and for what reason.

+1 million to this

If the pandemic didn’t make that clear, I’m not sure what will.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Despite massive western aid, Ukraine has failed to recapture significant territory this summer. It’s a stalemate.

Uh, Russia was supposed to take the whole country in three days.

A quagmire is never good for the "superpower"

Agreed.

Beginning of the war that was my aim.

Arm Ukrainians to bleed Russians. Turn Ukraine into afghanistan at Russia’s doorstep.

Now…I dunno how long we can keep this boil up before Western Europe melts down sócio-politically-economically.

What is the Pareto solution to bleed Russians and maintain order in Western Europe?

Did you ask Ukraine if they want to be Afghanistan? Afghanistan is your role model here? Is any country in the world wishing to be like Afghanistan?

Ukrainians don’t get a say to be honest. That is the nature of Slavic history.

There was a strategic opening, america took it.

Trust me, if europe was more economically risilient, pumping 30-50 billion a year in arms to turn Ukraine into Afghanistan right on the doorstep of Russia is a HUGE geostrategic win and cost effective.

We could do it indefinitely and use Ukraine as sandpaper to shave down russia slowly, methodically.

Ukraine will run out of people before Russia, and Ukraine may decide that it's in their best interest to reconcile with Russia than to be an American toilet or sand paper. Don't you think? They may look at Afghanistan and think gee, what did this all American support get them? They got discarded the second the wind blew elsewhere.

I'd rather be an American toilet than a Russian toilet, tbh. At least America doesn't share videos of the castration of POWs like Russia does.

Cough cough

Cough cough yourself. Yes, those prisoners were abused, but they weren't castrated.
And the Americans doing the torturing were punished. The Russian castrators were celebrated by Russia. So your whataboutism doesn't apply.

What do you mean, whataboutism? You said "Americans never!" and I supplied evidence to the contrary. I didn't know you place such a red line between castration and other forms of abuse.

Of course it's always different when Americans are doing it! It's...more virtuous somehow!

You did not supply evidence to the contrary. You said Americans don't share videos of POW castration. And, yeah, getting castrated is something you'll never physically or mentally recover from. Are you trying to argue it isn't?

I also never said that American torturing was virtuous in anyway, and said at least the torturers were punished, so now you're just flat out lying.

I'm trying to argue torture isn't limited to castration, and Americans have dabbled in it as enthusiastically as Russians.

Besides, this is the war of information, and both sides are using it as a weapon. Mass rape reports, especially baby rape, so wept over here, turned out fake. The tearjerker of "writing on backs of toddlers so they don't get lost in Russia" was fake. Therefore, I'm quite willing to believe that the castration video is another fake. Time will tell.

Well, that's not much of an argument, of course torture isn't limited to castration. But the filming and broadcasting of castration takes it up another notch. No Americans have done that, so they haven't dabbled in ad enthusiastically as Russians.

The rape reports weren't fake, you just want to believe they were, for some strange reason.

There is no reporting on this war. You should know that. Only propaganda, from both sides.

Russia invaded with no provocation from Ukraine. There is no "both sides" here.

Both sides of this conflict, beyond doubt, engage in propaganda.

Recollections vary as to whether it was provoked. But hey, the talking points say "unprovoked", therefore it must be.

Hey, lets just believe anything we want, we can do that when we label anything that contradicts how we want things to be as "talking points" by the "media". It's all a big conspiracy! Poor Russia was forced to pillage, rape and murder innocent civilians!

That the coverage of the war in Ukraine in the US is based on an ongoing effort of Ukraine's PR consultancies is clear to anyone with passing knowledge of how this particular sausage is made. Unless you think Vogue just wakes up one day and say, hey, let's feature the Zelenskys! They'll make great copy!

You're consuming processed foods and it's kind of funny how you insist that it's completely fresh and unaltered and just off the tree.

Oh, please, lets hear the sympathetic side for Russia. It's not like Putin has never posed for a photo shoot.

[Anonymous]

Friedman sees that biden’s nato triumph will end in tears as Europeans chafe under extraordinary natural gas, fuel, and electric prices.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Despite massive western aid, Ukraine has failed to recapture significant territory this summer. It’s a stalemate.

Uh, Russia was supposed to take the whole country in three days.

A quagmire is never good for the "superpower"

Agreed.

Beginning of the war that was my aim.

Arm Ukrainians to bleed Russians. Turn Ukraine into afghanistan at Russia’s doorstep.

Now…I dunno how long we can keep this boil up before Western Europe melts down sócio-politically-economically.

What is the Pareto solution to bleed Russians and maintain order in Western Europe?

Did you ask Ukraine if they want to be Afghanistan? Afghanistan is your role model here? Is any country in the world wishing to be like Afghanistan?

Ukrainians don’t get a say to be honest. That is the nature of Slavic history.

There was a strategic opening, america took it.

Trust me, if europe was more economically risilient, pumping 30-50 billion a year in arms to turn Ukraine into Afghanistan right on the doorstep of Russia is a HUGE geostrategic win and cost effective.

We could do it indefinitely and use Ukraine as sandpaper to shave down russia slowly, methodically.

Ukraine will run out of people before Russia, and Ukraine may decide that it's in their best interest to reconcile with Russia than to be an American toilet or sand paper. Don't you think? They may look at Afghanistan and think gee, what did this all American support get them? They got discarded the second the wind blew elsewhere.

I'd rather be an American toilet than a Russian toilet, tbh. At least America doesn't share videos of the castration of POWs like Russia does.

Cough cough

Cough cough yourself. Yes, those prisoners were abused, but they weren't castrated.
And the Americans doing the torturing were punished. The Russian castrators were celebrated by Russia. So your whataboutism doesn't apply.

What do you mean, whataboutism? You said "Americans never!" and I supplied evidence to the contrary. I didn't know you place such a red line between castration and other forms of abuse.

Of course it's always different when Americans are doing it! It's...more virtuous somehow!

You did not supply evidence to the contrary. You said Americans don't share videos of POW castration. And, yeah, getting castrated is something you'll never physically or mentally recover from. Are you trying to argue it isn't?

I also never said that American torturing was virtuous in anyway, and said at least the torturers were punished, so now you're just flat out lying.

I'm trying to argue torture isn't limited to castration, and Americans have dabbled in it as enthusiastically as Russians.

Besides, this is the war of information, and both sides are using it as a weapon. Mass rape reports, especially baby rape, so wept over here, turned out fake. The tearjerker of "writing on backs of toddlers so they don't get lost in Russia" was fake. Therefore, I'm quite willing to believe that the castration video is another fake. Time will tell.

Well, that's not much of an argument, of course torture isn't limited to castration. But the filming and broadcasting of castration takes it up another notch. No Americans have done that, so they haven't dabbled in ad enthusiastically as Russians.

The rape reports weren't fake, you just want to believe they were, for some strange reason.

There is no reporting on this war. You should know that. Only propaganda, from both sides.

Russia invaded with no provocation from Ukraine. There is no "both sides" here.

Both sides of this conflict, beyond doubt, engage in propaganda.

Recollections vary as to whether it was provoked. But hey, the talking points say "unprovoked", therefore it must be.

Hey, lets just believe anything we want, we can do that when we label anything that contradicts how we want things to be as "talking points" by the "media". It's all a big conspiracy! Poor Russia was forced to pillage, rape and murder innocent civilians!

That the coverage of the war in Ukraine in the US is based on an ongoing effort of Ukraine's PR consultancies is clear to anyone with passing knowledge of how this particular sausage is made. Unless you think Vogue just wakes up one day and say, hey, let's feature the Zelenskys! They'll make great copy!

You're consuming processed foods and it's kind of funny how you insist that it's completely fresh and unaltered and just off the tree.

Oh, please, lets hear the sympathetic side for Russia. It's not like Putin has never posed for a photo shoot.

Putin's photo shoots have always been produced for domestic consumption. With Zelensky, his PR blitz is targeting specifically foreign audiences, what with his Le Costume of never-ending camo T-shirts and carefully neglected facial hair (curiously similar to Putin's tough-guy getups circa 15 years ago).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
I think Volodymyr needs to stay the course. This is no joke. If they don't stop Russia, Russia will try to take the Baltics and more. Anyone who doesn't think so has not been following Russian media. It's one thing for Germans to worry about not having enough heat but it's another thing for them to wake up with Russian tanks on their border.


You can send your kids to die for vilinius
[Report Post]

Do you really think that Europeans wanted to send their kids to Afghanistan when the US came calling under NATO? I imagine many felt the same as you---that was someone else's problem to solve.
You would have been right at home with the 1930s America First ostriches who thought sticking their fingers in their ears would make Hitler go away.

NATO has kept the peace in Europe for roughly 75 years. Putin wants to end his despotic rule by retaking as much former Soviet territory as he can. The Baltics, with their coastline, are a prime target. That's why they wanted to join NATO---they knew they were a target.

Naked aggression needs to be stopped in its tracks. Otherwise it continues. What George Bush did when Saddam Hussein invaded Kuwait was a masterful demonstration of how to get the global community to respond to that type of behavior. He was right to push the Iraqis back to their border and stop. That is what needs to happen here. It's just trickier because Putin is nuts enough at this stage to try to use a nuclear weapon.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Friedman sees that biden’s nato triumph will end in tears as Europeans chafe under extraordinary natural gas, fuel, and electric prices.

Ding ding ding.

And it’s not Friedman who sees it - he’s literally being told by the highest levels in the WH they are concerned about this massively .

I don’t think people get just how precarious things are in developed parts in Europe right now.

Yes the food is great and the walkable neighborhoods are awesome and there are less fat people which is a huge bonus but you can feel a huge sense of things are gonna fall off a cliff soon and it is all unsustainable.

European political-economy does not work with energy costs this high. Their entire model breaks.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I think Volodymyr needs to stay the course. This is no joke. If they don't stop Russia, Russia will try to take the Baltics and more. Anyone who doesn't think so has not been following Russian media. It's one thing for Germans to worry about not having enough heat but it's another thing for them to wake up with Russian tanks on their border.


You can send your kids to die for vilinius
[Report Post]

Do you really think that Europeans wanted to send their kids to Afghanistan when the US came calling under NATO? I imagine many felt the same as you---that was someone else's problem to solve.
You would have been right at home with the 1930s America First ostriches who thought sticking their fingers in their ears would make Hitler go away.

NATO has kept the peace in Europe for roughly 75 years. Putin wants to end his despotic rule by retaking as much former Soviet territory as he can. The Baltics, with their coastline, are a prime target. That's why they wanted to join NATO---they knew they were a target.

Naked aggression needs to be stopped in its tracks. Otherwise it continues. What George Bush did when Saddam Hussein invaded Kuwait was a masterful demonstration of how to get the global community to respond to that type of behavior. He was right to push the Iraqis back to their border and stop. That is what needs to happen here. It's just trickier because Putin is nuts enough at this stage to try to use a nuclear weapon.

Considering how Afghanistan ended, what European would have willingly sent their son into this war without a purpose and without results?

The Baltics, of all people, should be thanking USSR every day for gifting them vast chunks of land formerly owned by Poland. Without its stint in the USSR, Lithuania would have been a province of Poland.

[Anonymous]

At the end of the day, Russia is the aggressor. They are the ones who started the war. No one would be in this mess if Russia didn't send in their troops.

Russia is clearly at fault here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I think Volodymyr needs to stay the course. This is no joke. If they don't stop Russia, Russia will try to take the Baltics and more. Anyone who doesn't think so has not been following Russian media. It's one thing for Germans to worry about not having enough heat but it's another thing for them to wake up with Russian tanks on their border.


You can send your kids to die for vilinius
[Report Post]

Do you really think that Europeans wanted to send their kids to Afghanistan when the US came calling under NATO? I imagine many felt the same as you---that was someone else's problem to solve.
You would have been right at home with the 1930s America First ostriches who thought sticking their fingers in their ears would make Hitler go away.

NATO has kept the peace in Europe for roughly 75 years. Putin wants to end his despotic rule by retaking as much former Soviet territory as he can. The Baltics, with their coastline, are a prime target. That's why they wanted to join NATO---they knew they were a target.

Naked aggression needs to be stopped in its tracks. Otherwise it continues. What George Bush did when Saddam Hussein invaded Kuwait was a masterful demonstration of how to get the global community to respond to that type of behavior. He was right to push the Iraqis back to their border and stop. That is what needs to happen here. It's just trickier because Putin is nuts enough at this stage to try to use a nuclear weapon.

LOL but then his son decided to invade Iraq with a bogus claim of WMD, which left half a million Iraqis pushing up daisies. Hardly a pride of the place, wouldn't you say? And suddenly the bloom of the righteous war was off the rose everywhere except the US, which inexplicably retains its appetite for foreign wars that achieve nothing good except keep Raytheon in business.