Justice High School

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Justice currently has the highest number of vacancies but other schools also have a lot of turnover this year. Principals have already filled many positions for next year for staff that have resigned.

Anonymous wrote:Justice does seem to be an outlier when it comes to current staff vacancies (the numbers reflect the fact that some positions are part-time positions):

Justice 14.00
South County 8.00
West Potomac 8.00
Fairfax 7.50
Woodson 6.50
Oakton 6.00
West Springfield 6.00
Lewis 5.50
South Lakes 5.17
Herndon 5.00
Westfield 5.00
Langley 4.83
Centreville 4.00
Edison 4.00
Falls Church 4.00
Lake Braddock 3.66
Annandale 3.33
Chantilly 3.00
Mount Vernon 3.00
McLean 2.67
Hayfield 2.00
Robinson 2.00
Marshall 1.00
TJHSST 1.00
Madison 0.00

I work at Justice and have for 10+ years and I've never seen turnover like right now. Almost the entire science department will be gone next year, lots of English teachers are leaving. I think the turnover is higher than when Calhoun was the principal. Penny and Maria really got the school back on track, but this year has been abysmal.

I would really appreciate a "root cause" explanation for why the high turnover is occurring. How much is due to overall teacher burnout post-Covid, how much relates to the parking situation, and how much relates to a principal who doesn't have control over her school? Or is it racist teachers who cannot accept that they must answer to a Black principal?

With all of the high schools hiring in FCPS, do you really think a racist teacher would choose Justice?

Some people don't mind being in a position of power over minority students. It's different to report to a POC. The Black principal of Justice just took over this year.

Ms. Eck is Hispanic. They've been reporting to a person of color for years.

Ms. Eck is the daughter of Cuban-American immigrants. https://springhilles.fcps.edu/features/welcome-principal-eck She transferred from a high school with a 54% Hispanic population to an elementary school that has 5% of a Hispanic population.

I agree with the PP that there is probably a series of things going on and it is piling on top of each other. What really frustrates me about the principals in Mason District is that they don't stay. Collectively, my kids have had almost 10 principals since elementary, middle, and high school.

It's known for being a stepping stone district. Lots of people want to work here because if they can do something with poor brown kids they are likely to get a promotion. Pretty much all the instructional "coaches" at these schools just want some data so they can go onto better things.

Is that really a bad thing? Sounds like the go-getter type-As would work harder to push for change and aim for better results in poor schools, even if it's for selfish reasons. What's their end goal anyway? To get to Langley/McLean and have to deal with helicopter parents and lawyer threats every day?

"Helicopter" parent of Langley kids here. What are these "better results" you are speaking of?

Is that a loaded question? I don't understand what you're implying. Poorer schools in FCPS do worse on SOLs and just about every other academic measure due to socioeconomic factors. Better results means improving academic outcomes for students who live in poverty.

Are these improvements demonstrated somewhere?

On "data" they make teachers do.

[Anonymous]

Lots of red flags for working at Justice. What high schools in the division do you enjoy working at as a teacher and why?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are also multiple English teachers leaving. This comes on the heels of eliminating Honors English 11 and 12 courses and pushing unprepared kids into IB English classes.

They eliminated honors and regular English 11. Everyone is taking IB English 11.

Yikes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Justice currently has the highest number of vacancies but other schools also have a lot of turnover this year. Principals have already filled many positions for next year for staff that have resigned.

Anonymous wrote:Justice does seem to be an outlier when it comes to current staff vacancies (the numbers reflect the fact that some positions are part-time positions):

Justice 14.00
South County 8.00
West Potomac 8.00
Fairfax 7.50
Woodson 6.50
Oakton 6.00
West Springfield 6.00
Lewis 5.50
South Lakes 5.17
Herndon 5.00
Westfield 5.00
Langley 4.83
Centreville 4.00
Edison 4.00
Falls Church 4.00
Lake Braddock 3.66
Annandale 3.33
Chantilly 3.00
Mount Vernon 3.00
McLean 2.67
Hayfield 2.00
Robinson 2.00
Marshall 1.00
TJHSST 1.00
Madison 0.00

I work at Justice and have for 10+ years and I've never seen turnover like right now. Almost the entire science department will be gone next year, lots of English teachers are leaving. I think the turnover is higher than when Calhoun was the principal. Penny and Maria really got the school back on track, but this year has been abysmal.

I would really appreciate a "root cause" explanation for why the high turnover is occurring. How much is due to overall teacher burnout post-Covid, how much relates to the parking situation, and how much relates to a principal who doesn't have control over her school? Or is it racist teachers who cannot accept that they must answer to a Black principal?

Probably a combination of all of them.

In every school there is turnover--teachers retire, move because a spouse has a job relocation, stay home to have a baby, etc. This school year has been rough in every school, not just Justice. Across the board there are more people opting to retire or leave. But if there was a pie chart showing the reasons by percentage, my guess would be that the principal lacking control and building a positive culture would be the largest percentage. The parking and racist teacher reasons are not reasonable. Given that the number of vacancies significantly outweighs the other high schools, it has to be about the school culture. The principal is responsible for setting that tone.

Justice has to be a terrible place to teach. It’s not difficult for an overzealous principal and administrative team to screw it all up.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Justice currently has the highest number of vacancies but other schools also have a lot of turnover this year. Principals have already filled many positions for next year for staff that have resigned.

Anonymous wrote:Justice does seem to be an outlier when it comes to current staff vacancies (the numbers reflect the fact that some positions are part-time positions):

Justice 14.00
South County 8.00
West Potomac 8.00
Fairfax 7.50
Woodson 6.50
Oakton 6.00
West Springfield 6.00
Lewis 5.50
South Lakes 5.17
Herndon 5.00
Westfield 5.00
Langley 4.83
Centreville 4.00
Edison 4.00
Falls Church 4.00
Lake Braddock 3.66
Annandale 3.33
Chantilly 3.00
Mount Vernon 3.00
McLean 2.67
Hayfield 2.00
Robinson 2.00
Marshall 1.00
TJHSST 1.00
Madison 0.00

I work at Justice and have for 10+ years and I've never seen turnover like right now. Almost the entire science department will be gone next year, lots of English teachers are leaving. I think the turnover is higher than when Calhoun was the principal. Penny and Maria really got the school back on track, but this year has been abysmal.

I would really appreciate a "root cause" explanation for why the high turnover is occurring. How much is due to overall teacher burnout post-Covid, how much relates to the parking situation, and how much relates to a principal who doesn't have control over her school? Or is it racist teachers who cannot accept that they must answer to a Black principal?

With all of the high schools hiring in FCPS, do you really think a racist teacher would choose Justice?

Some people don't mind being in a position of power over minority students. It's different to report to a POC. The Black principal of Justice just took over this year.

Ms. Eck is Hispanic. They've been reporting to a person of color for years.

Ms. Eck is the daughter of Cuban-American immigrants. https://springhilles.fcps.edu/features/welcome-principal-eck She transferred from a high school with a 54% Hispanic population to an elementary school that has 5% of a Hispanic population.

I agree with the PP that there is probably a series of things going on and it is piling on top of each other. What really frustrates me about the principals in Mason District is that they don't stay. Collectively, my kids have had almost 10 principals since elementary, middle, and high school.

It's known for being a stepping stone district. Lots of people want to work here because if they can do something with poor brown kids they are likely to get a promotion. Pretty much all the instructional "coaches" at these schools just want some data so they can go onto better things.

Is that really a bad thing? Sounds like the go-getter type-As would work harder to push for change and aim for better results in poor schools, even if it's for selfish reasons. What's their end goal anyway? To get to Langley/McLean and have to deal with helicopter parents and lawyer threats every day?

"Helicopter" parent of Langley kids here. What are these "better results" you are speaking of?

Is that a loaded question? I don't understand what you're implying. Poorer schools in FCPS do worse on SOLs and just about every other academic measure due to socioeconomic factors. Better results means improving academic outcomes for students who live in poverty.

Are these improvements demonstrated somewhere?

On "data" they make teachers do.

You can lead a horse (student) to water, but you can’t make them drink.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't know - while I agree some admin/ teachers and staff are motivated to teach at poor performing schools in order to show results such as improved test scores, etc that will allow them to advance/be promoted, I have found that most educators who choose poor performing/low SES schools are intrinsically motivated and enjoy the challenge and fulfillment those jobs can provide. In my own (limited) experience, at a Title I ES then LJMS and FCHS, I found that to be true. Especially for the teachers, but also the administrators.

There is student loan forgiveness for up to $17k for high school teachers in Title 1 schools.

There are no Title 1 high schools in FCPS - do you mean elementary schools?

While they are not technically labeled title one schools, low income middle and high schools qualify for the same benefits as title one schools. Only sped and science teachers get 16,500. Everyone else gets 5000.

I’ll add that while it does not count toward PSLF years, it is a shorter timeline for forgiveness—5 years for some forgiveness versus waiting 10 years for any forgiveness. Can you do TLF then PSLF once you finish TLF?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are also multiple English teachers leaving. This comes on the heels of eliminating Honors English 11 and 12 courses and pushing unprepared kids into IB English classes.

They eliminated honors and regular English 11. Everyone is taking IB English 11.

Yikes.

Not everyone is taking IB English as the school has a large ESOL population. But if you don’t want to be in a remedial course, IB English is your only option as Honors English 11 and 12 have been eliminated.

Many of the departing teachers are English teachers. Draw your own conclusion as to how they feel about this experiment.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are also multiple English teachers leaving. This comes on the heels of eliminating Honors English 11 and 12 courses and pushing unprepared kids into IB English classes.

They eliminated honors and regular English 11. Everyone is taking IB English 11.

Yikes.

Not everyone is taking IB English as the school has a large ESOL population. But if you don’t want to be in a remedial course, IB English is your only option as Honors English 11 and 12 have been eliminated.

Many of the departing teachers are English teachers. Draw your own conclusion as to how they feel about this experiment.

That sounds crazy. I went to a high school very similar to Justice academically, and we had regular and honors English available in grades 9 through 11, and then regular, honors and AP Lit for 12th. Every subject had various different levels available. I think that was for the best.

There was soft tracking based on your previous grades but the students who knew they were going to be interested in the higher level classes generally got decent grades in the previous classes. I don’t think many kids ultimately got denied honors or AP if they had the energy to petition it, but this was a setting in which there was little parental involvement so few petitions.

[Anonymous]

It’s disheartening to work in a high school where 18 year old freshman are unable to converse in basic English without benefit of a translator.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It’s disheartening to work in a high school where 18 year old freshman are unable to converse in basic English without benefit of a translator.

Actually, it’s moreso misbehavior that’s the issue.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It’s disheartening to work in a high school where 18 year old freshman are unable to converse in basic English without benefit of a translator.

Would you prefer those kids don’t go to school at all?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s disheartening to work in a high school where 18 year old freshman are unable to converse in basic English without benefit of a translator.

Would you prefer those kids don’t go to school at all?

DP, but if one were to optimize for economic optimization without any regard to “kindness” then an argument could be made to exclude the migration of those having low income/limited English who are already around adult age. I say this as an immigrant myself.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s disheartening to work in a high school where 18 year old freshman are unable to converse in basic English without benefit of a translator.

Would you prefer those kids don’t go to school at all?

DP, but if one were to optimize for economic optimization without any regard to “kindness” then an argument could be made to exclude the migration of those having low income/limited English who are already around adult age. I say this as an immigrant myself.

Pretty sure there is more economic in the benefit in the long-term if we make an attempt to minimally educate or assimilate an immigrant so that they become a working member of American society.

I don't think the older ones belong in a regular school though as the only thing that does is drag down the statistics heavily and make a school's and teacher's performance seem atrocious. They really shouldn't count as "normal" students as far as SOLs and state truancy and graduation requirements and such. It's actually pretty ridiculous that schools like Justice are so heavily penalized and criticized for failing to get these kids to meet the same standards as a native-born child.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s disheartening to work in a high school where 18 year old freshman are unable to converse in basic English without benefit of a translator.

Would you prefer those kids don’t go to school at all?

DP, but if one were to optimize for economic optimization without any regard to “kindness” then an argument could be made to exclude the migration of those having low income/limited English who are already around adult age. I say this as an immigrant myself.

Quite the opposite. It would be an economic disaster to have even more folks who can’t read and didn’t graduate high school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s disheartening to work in a high school where 18 year old freshman are unable to converse in basic English without benefit of a translator.

Would you prefer those kids don’t go to school at all?

DP, but if one were to optimize for economic optimization without any regard to “kindness” then an argument could be made to exclude the migration of those having low income/limited English who are already around adult age. I say this as an immigrant myself.

Quite the opposite. It would be an economic disaster to have even more folks who can’t read and didn’t graduate high school.

Thanks for illustration the importance of the ability to read and understand English. The PP asked why admit them into the US. How would such a scenario be a economic disaster for the US?