How stressed is your senior?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My DS applied SCEA to an Ivy and was rejected, also got deferred from Georgia Tech, but accepted in UMD Honors. He is devastated, very high stats student from magnet school, perfect SAT, AP's with 5's, high level ECA's

These stories make me crazy- I mean who does get in?! In some ways our process has been easier as an average student with mediocre grades, no APs and decent, but not great test scores (3.3 and 30 ACT)

He’s into 8/10 schools and waiting to hear from 2 more. He wanted big state flagship type schools so that’s where he applied.

I really do feel for these super achievers, all of whom I know will end up in great places but it’s hard getting rejections when you’ve worked so hard.

I posted something along these lines on another thread snd got some negative feedback, I’m not sure my point was understood. It’s such a crapshoot that the kids with amazing stats end up needing to seriously consider and maybe attend schools they could have gotten into with much more middling stats. These are generally perfectly good schools. This calls into question the whole achievement culture. Why take 12 APs if the benefit in the admissions process is so hard to gauge? I’m really just offering this as food for thought. I have a sophomore so I’m just learning, but the system seems really unfortunate and creates so much unnecessary stress.

You are 100% correct. Teens' mental health is suffering because they are pursuing schools based SO heavily on USNWR rankings.

Elite high schools fuel this (both the parents and the peers). Try your best to see this process as a search for schools that would serve your child well, in terms of education and fit. I recommend the Colleges that Change Lives traveling panel (though perhaps now their talk is virtual). It is NOT primarily a marketing scam (despite the rants of one crazy troll on here). My daughter and I attended when she was a junior and it contained SO much healthy advice (like don''t compare lists of schools with your friends, how not to make the search a stressful topic within the family, etc)

Take what you read on here with a grain of salt. Help your child come up with a list of schools that is balanced, in terms of selectivity. Share great things you hear about a wide range of schools. Don't make them believe that a B or average standardized test scores will set them up for a failed life. Really, help them out because the forces around here are NOT healthy.

+1

Parenting fail - BIG parenting fail.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As the lore of the classes of 2021 and 2022 spread, it is going to be increasingly difficult for kids to be motivated in high school for some brass ring of T20 college as a reward. Seeing all these high stats, strong EC kids "settling" for "lessor" schools is very hard.

Good. Maybe a reset in how we think about college is in order. Maybe we, are parents, need to stop pushing our kids to take 14 APs, get a 34/1500+/ participate in so many ECs and believe that aT20 college is the only answer. It’s a race to nowhere. My 2020 kid is now having to make decisions about summers and study await her an eye towards grad school. It never stops.

I had a 2020 kid at TJ and have a 2022 kid. And the pandemic has made me realize how batsh*t crazy academics and college admissions are in this area. It was such a relief in spring of 2020 to be forced to stop. And then restart at a slower pace. It made me realize how crazy our pace of life was and how exhausted we were. I’ve also seen my friends in other parts of the country have kids get into the same range of colleges as my kids with 1/2 the APs, 100 points less on the SATs and many fewer ECs.

The system is broken. A more sane system, like Canada or Europe would be healthier.

Parents need to stop looking around and thinking they have to keep up with neurotic strivers. I went to the Counselling Dept's PTSA lecture when my kid started high school. They said kids should take APs when they have exhausted high school classes in their track AND/OR to pursue courses in the field they want to enter (such as Calculus for an engineer or Psychology for a psychologist). When you do that, you don't take AP's until junior and senior year usually, and you only take a handful. This is what my DC did. She was so afraid that it would hurt her because the other smart kids around her were competing for how many AP's they could take and how little sleep they could get. It was very unhealthy. They were drinking coffee as young teens (and are probably taking adderall in college).

My kid went her own route and did fine. Colleges want to see that you are capable of college level coursework, and that you took some of the most rigorous courses offered at your school.

People have to be strong and make their own, healthy decisions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As the lore of the classes of 2021 and 2022 spread, it is going to be increasingly difficult for kids to be motivated in high school for some brass ring of T20 college as a reward. Seeing all these high stats, strong EC kids "settling" for "lessor" schools is very hard.

Good. Maybe a reset in how we think about college is in order. Maybe we, are parents, need to stop pushing our kids to take 14 APs, get a 34/1500+/ participate in so many ECs and believe that aT20 college is the only answer. It’s a race to nowhere. My 2020 kid is now having to make decisions about summers and study await her an eye towards grad school. It never stops.

I had a 2020 kid at TJ and have a 2022 kid. And the pandemic has made me realize how batsh*t crazy academics and college admissions are in this area. It was such a relief in spring of 2020 to be forced to stop. And then restart at a slower pace. It made me realize how crazy our pace of life was and how exhausted we were. I’ve also seen my friends in other parts of the country have kids get into the same range of colleges as my kids with 1/2 the APs, 100 points less on the SATs and many fewer ECs.

The system is broken. A more sane system, like Canada or Europe would be healthier.

For actual top kids, it isn't the parents pushing. There are some kids where they want the challenge and thrive with it.

Some students absolutely push themselves into the crazy and not the parents. I have more than one and the one that made it into the most competitive college, did it on his own. Sibling are not the same. It's all fine.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My DS applied SCEA to an Ivy and was rejected, also got deferred from Georgia Tech, but accepted in UMD Honors. He is devastated, very high stats student from magnet school, perfect SAT, AP's with 5's, high level ECA's

These stories make me crazy- I mean who does get in?! In some ways our process has been easier as an average student with mediocre grades, no APs and decent, but not great test scores (3.3 and 30 ACT)

He’s into 8/10 schools and waiting to hear from 2 more. He wanted big state flagship type schools so that’s where he applied.

I really do feel for these super achievers, all of whom I know will end up in great places but it’s hard getting rejections when you’ve worked so hard.

I posted something along these lines on another thread snd got some negative feedback, I’m not sure my point was understood. It’s such a crapshoot that the kids with amazing stats end up needing to seriously consider and maybe attend schools they could have gotten into with much more middling stats. These are generally perfectly good schools. This calls into question the whole achievement culture. Why take 12 APs if the benefit in the admissions process is so hard to gauge? I’m really just offering this as food for thought. I have a sophomore so I’m just learning, but the system seems really unfortunate and creates so much unnecessary stress.

You are 100% correct. Teens' mental health is suffering because they are pursuing schools based SO heavily on USNWR rankings.

Elite high schools fuel this (both the parents and the peers). Try your best to see this process as a search for schools that would serve your child well, in terms of education and fit. I recommend the Colleges that Change Lives traveling panel (though perhaps now their talk is virtual). It is NOT primarily a marketing scam (despite the rants of one crazy troll on here). My daughter and I attended when she was a junior and it contained SO much healthy advice (like don''t compare lists of schools with your friends, how not to make the search a stressful topic within the family, etc)

Take what you read on here with a grain of salt. Help your child come up with a list of schools that is balanced, in terms of selectivity. Share great things you hear about a wide range of schools. Don't make them believe that a B or average standardized test scores will set them up for a failed life. Really, help them out because the forces around here are NOT healthy.

Here's an interesting list of schools by median SAT percentile. Lots of safeties not so different from the elites.

https://lesshighschoolstress.com/page/3/

This.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As the lore of the classes of 2021 and 2022 spread, it is going to be increasingly difficult for kids to be motivated in high school for some brass ring of T20 college as a reward. Seeing all these high stats, strong EC kids "settling" for "lessor" schools is very hard.

Good. Maybe a reset in how we think about college is in order. Maybe we, are parents, need to stop pushing our kids to take 14 APs, get a 34/1500+/ participate in so many ECs and believe that aT20 college is the only answer. It’s a race to nowhere. My 2020 kid is now having to make decisions about summers and study await her an eye towards grad school. It never stops.

I had a 2020 kid at TJ and have a 2022 kid. And the pandemic has made me realize how batsh*t crazy academics and college admissions are in this area. It was such a relief in spring of 2020 to be forced to stop. And then restart at a slower pace. It made me realize how crazy our pace of life was and how exhausted we were. I’ve also seen my friends in other parts of the country have kids get into the same range of colleges as my kids with 1/2 the APs, 100 points less on the SATs and many fewer ECs.

The system is broken. A more sane system, like Canada or Europe would be healthier.

For actual top kids, it isn't the parents pushing. There are some kids where they want the challenge and thrive with it.

Some students absolutely push themselves into the crazy and not the parents. I have more than one and the one that made it into the most competitive college, did it on his own. Sibling are not the same. It's all fine.

It's all fine for a small percentage of kids. 50% of kids are highly stressed out on a daily basis, another 30% are somewhat stressed daily, and 25% are clinically depressed. That's not fine.

See the NYU study referenced here...

https://lesshighschoolstress.com/research-study-links/

[Anonymous]

Check out the documentary Race to Nowhere.

It is not all fine.

[Anonymous]

I know very few parents or children that are uneducated about the difficulty of gaining acceptance into extremely elite schools. It is a dream, not reality and they are aware.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DS has severe adhd/anxiety that kept him from reaching potential during Covid and even in the "aftermath". He also dropped out of sports and other activities during that time. There are kids who didn't thrive due to underlying mental health issues that got worse during isolation. I'm proud of the fact that he is still functioning and has gotten into some good schools. Rejected as legacy from UVA (where step sister, cousin, uncle, godmother, mother and many others in the family went), which really stung as he had set his sights on that one for years. Everyone seems to discuss their GPAs in high school. There's such an unhealthy focus on grades and top schools in this area; it's sad when 4.1 and 1490 on SATs means you're "not enough".

I am sorry to hear that but unfortunately of all of those relatives, the only way he is actually a legacy is through his mother. You could have 50 extended family members wh attended but only parents count as legacies at UVA. That said, I could tell you of the granddaughter of a VERY famous legacy (household name famous) whose mother also attended and the kid got rejected. Unfortunately legacy status does ot matter much at UVA.

That said, your DC has done great through adverse situations and you should be proud. College admittances should not be validation of that... maybe how they do in the college they DO go to might be, but admittance? no. Best of luck to your DC, I'm sure they will land at a great place.

Yes, we know I'm the only legacy that matters. I was just commenting that our family has discussed UVA a lot of the years, which is why he was so focused on it. And we also know that legacy doesn't really help. I am proud of him--against huge odds, he's doing amazingly well. His therapist confirmed that we are the only parents (and divorced, at that) who don't push their kid in school, with colleges, etc. We are all proud of that too.
Thanks for your kind words

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My DS applied SCEA to an Ivy and was rejected, also got deferred from Georgia Tech, but accepted in UMD Honors. He is devastated, very high stats student from magnet school, perfect SAT, AP's with 5's, high level ECA's

These stories make me crazy- I mean who does get in?! In some ways our process has been easier as an average student with mediocre grades, no APs and decent, but not great test scores (3.3 and 30 ACT)

He’s into 8/10 schools and waiting to hear from 2 more. He wanted big state flagship type schools so that’s where he applied.

I really do feel for these super achievers, all of whom I know will end up in great places but it’s hard getting rejections when you’ve worked so hard.

I posted something along these lines on another thread snd got some negative feedback, I’m not sure my point was understood. It’s such a crapshoot that the kids with amazing stats end up needing to seriously consider and maybe attend schools they could have gotten into with much more middling stats. These are generally perfectly good schools. This calls into question the whole achievement culture. Why take 12 APs if the benefit in the admissions process is so hard to gauge? I’m really just offering this as food for thought. I have a sophomore so I’m just learning, but the system seems really unfortunate and creates so much unnecessary stress.

You are 100% correct. Teens' mental health is suffering because they are pursuing schools based SO heavily on USNWR rankings.

Elite high schools fuel this (both the parents and the peers). Try your best to see this process as a search for schools that would serve your child well, in terms of education and fit. I recommend the Colleges that Change Lives traveling panel (though perhaps now their talk is virtual). It is NOT primarily a marketing scam (despite the rants of one crazy troll on here). My daughter and I attended when she was a junior and it contained SO much healthy advice (like don''t compare lists of schools with your friends, how not to make the search a stressful topic within the family, etc)

Take what you read on here with a grain of salt. Help your child come up with a list of schools that is balanced, in terms of selectivity. Share great things you hear about a wide range of schools. Don't make them believe that a B or average standardized test scores will set them up for a failed life. Really, help them out because the forces around here are NOT healthy.

Here's an interesting list of schools by median SAT percentile. Lots of safeties not so different from the elites.

https://lesshighschoolstress.com/page/3/

This.

Thank you so much for that link! Really good read.

[Anonymous]

The high pressure comes from kids and 'internally' because of what they perceive adult values around them to be. The pressure may not be direct, but it is there. So stop kidding yourselves.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As the lore of the classes of 2021 and 2022 spread, it is going to be increasingly difficult for kids to be motivated in high school for some brass ring of T20 college as a reward. Seeing all these high stats, strong EC kids "settling" for "lessor" schools is very hard.

Good. Maybe a reset in how we think about college is in order. Maybe we, are parents, need to stop pushing our kids to take 14 APs, get a 34/1500+/ participate in so many ECs and believe that aT20 college is the only answer. It’s a race to nowhere. My 2020 kid is now having to make decisions about summers and study await her an eye towards grad school. It never stops.

I had a 2020 kid at TJ and have a 2022 kid. And the pandemic has made me realize how batsh*t crazy academics and college admissions are in this area. It was such a relief in spring of 2020 to be forced to stop. And then restart at a slower pace. It made me realize how crazy our pace of life was and how exhausted we were. I’ve also seen my friends in other parts of the country have kids get into the same range of colleges as my kids with 1/2 the APs, 100 points less on the SATs and many fewer ECs.

The system is broken. A more sane system, like Canada or Europe would be healthier.

For actual top kids, it isn't the parents pushing. There are some kids where they want the challenge and thrive with it.

Some students absolutely push themselves into the crazy and not the parents. I have more than one and the one that made it into the most competitive college, did it on his own. Sibling are not the same. It's all fine.

I don’t know - I was “that kid” but it doesn’t mean I wasn’t stressed. I have a kid who really likes school and likes to learn. The level/rigor of AP classes probably is appropriate for him but the concern is they are just so much work and there are only so many hours in a day. I wish that getting by in little sleep wasn’t seemingly part of what kids are trying to prove.

[Anonymous]

What did you want your mom to do? Force you go to sleep? Force you to withdraw from this class or that activity or that opportunity? These kids are 17 in the junior year crazy and they have a degree of autonomy.

Learning and growing and exploring is interesting and exiting and every kid has different pace at which they go. For the ones that want to run fast and far, so what?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The high pressure comes from kids and 'internally' because of what they perceive adult values around them to be. The pressure may not be direct, but it is there. So stop kidding yourselves.

Not true. Pressure comes from the environment to measure up. To take as many AP’s as your peers and do travel sports and clubs etc. I know parents who pushed their kids on the advanced math track just because they think it’s important for selective colleges whether or not the kid is able to handle it. My kid was in advanced math class but I didn’t have to do anything to get him on the track.. Then I had a mom of a first grader ask me how did you get him to take Algebra in 6th grade and would it be necessary to get into an Ivy without that path? I was shocked to hear this question!
On another note, many many kids take adderal in college. This kid from Penn bragged about it to my kid (not at penn)howeveryone takes it and especially during exams where they stay up for 4 straight nights!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Guess we should just be thankful to have gotten into UMD but not gonna lie, UVA and ED Vanderbilt rejection hurt. I get it you need a hook, but caption of 2 varsity sports, close to perfect grades 35 ACT and class President. It seemed like he lowered the bar to not apply to IVY but wow, kid is super depressed.

I am really sorry to read this. My kid is in a similar boat. I am trying very hard to stay upbeat and absorb his stress so he can be happy. Secretly, I am very worried for him.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As the lore of the classes of 2021 and 2022 spread, it is going to be increasingly difficult for kids to be motivated in high school for some brass ring of T20 college as a reward. Seeing all these high stats, strong EC kids "settling" for "lessor" schools is very hard.

Good. Maybe a reset in how we think about college is in order. Maybe we, are parents, need to stop pushing our kids to take 14 APs, get a 34/1500+/ participate in so many ECs and believe that aT20 college is the only answer. It’s a race to nowhere. My 2020 kid is now having to make decisions about summers and study await her an eye towards grad school. It never stops.

I had a 2020 kid at TJ and have a 2022 kid. And the pandemic has made me realize how batsh*t crazy academics and college admissions are in this area. It was such a relief in spring of 2020 to be forced to stop. And then restart at a slower pace. It made me realize how crazy our pace of life was and how exhausted we were. I’ve also seen my friends in other parts of the country have kids get into the same range of colleges as my kids with 1/2 the APs, 100 points less on the SATs and many fewer ECs.

The system is broken. A more sane system, like Canada or Europe would be healthier.

I have 2 at TJ as well, and unless you shine at TJ, you are better off at homeschool. That is now my ultimate recommendation. If I have a 3rd kid, I will not send him/her to TJ.