DEI st St. Pat’s?

[Anonymous]

All --
Seeking a color blind society never meant denying people have different types of pigment in their skin, it meant reaching a point where people would not treat one another differently because of the color of their skin.

It never meant denying that people of different hues had different backgrounds and cultures, but it meant we should strive for a point where those differences were not the dominant way people -- whatever their skin tone -- are identified by others (or by themselves) in their public participation in society. Our history obviously made this a steeper climb with African Americans as did the fact if you are black in a room of white people that is noticed, but the notion of a color blind society is to make their contemporary experience similar to that of voluntary immigrants who arrived as outsiders, faced discrimination but ultimately were able to largely assimilate into public life, while maintaining their different traditions and cultures at home.

I read the link someone posted on why you should not talk about a color blind society. Nothing in that short article even addressed the issues discussed above.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NP here. I agree with the idea of raising your children to be color blind, but part of other groups DEI efforts it’s not about group think, but rather to be aware of experiences. How will our color blind children respond when someone is treated differently due to race/color? Don’t we need to understand/be aware of experiences of others?

Yes- but who is to say which characteristics shape a person most? I’m white and Jewish but I would say that what defined me most was growing up middle class as the daughter of a teacher and secretary in a blue collar town. I am sure there are thousands of Americans of all colors and religions who would argue the same. Each one of us has the right to choose what defines us.

Yes and for many people of color, they would say their race and how they have been treated has been a defining element in their lives.

Absolutely. But that is their story to tell. I have no right to look at someone and make a broad list of assumptions about them based on any characteristic.

Acknowledging race/color does not ask you to make a broad list of assumptions about any individual based on that observation. It asks you to recognize that you do see color (we all do), work to understand your own internalized racial biases, and be open and empathetic to the experiences racialized experiences of others.

This active engagement in the significance of race in broader American society and history will help to abandon the misconception that an equitable society has been achieved; color blindness acts as if racism is part of a bygone era and greatly inhibits our ability to recognize its subtler manifestations and push things forward.

TLDR: Color blindness makes people blind to racism not race.

As a colored person who has experienced daily racism growing up, I COMPLETELY REJECT THIS REASONING. It is RACIST to "look at my color" and make conclusions about me - we do want a colorblind society and I don't want the tyranny of some sociologist who studies racial correlations reducing those to inferences at my individual level no matter how benign or paternalistic the intent of the beholder. It is absolutely disgusting how so-called progressives arrogate to themselves the right to define my experience of race and continue to use it as a daily category of interpersonal relationships.

Thank you for your very wise post.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote: All --
Seeking a color blind society never meant denying people have different types of pigment in their skin, it meant reaching a point where people would not treat one another differently because of the color of their skin.

It never meant denying that people of different hues had different backgrounds and cultures, but it meant we should strive for a point where those differences were not the dominant way people -- whatever their skin tone -- are identified by others (or by themselves) in their public participation in society. Our history obviously made this a steeper climb with African Americans as did the fact if you are black in a room of white people that is noticed, but the notion of a color blind society is to make their contemporary experience similar to that of voluntary immigrants who arrived as outsiders, faced discrimination but ultimately were able to largely assimilate into public life, while maintaining their different traditions and cultures at home.

I read the link someone posted on why you should not talk about a color blind society. Nothing in that short article even addressed the issues discussed above.

I think the main problem with colorblindness is not the above- which I think would be ideal. It is that most people who claim to be colorblind are not actually colorblind in practice, so it is harmful for children of color, especially black children, to be told to believe that the world is colorblind, only to grow up to see that most people consciously or subconsciously judge you in part or whole based on your race. Real colorblindness takes a lot of work, more than just a declaration.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: All --
Seeking a color blind society never meant denying people have different types of pigment in their skin, it meant reaching a point where people would not treat one another differently because of the color of their skin.

It never meant denying that people of different hues had different backgrounds and cultures, but it meant we should strive for a point where those differences were not the dominant way people -- whatever their skin tone -- are identified by others (or by themselves) in their public participation in society. Our history obviously made this a steeper climb with African Americans as did the fact if you are black in a room of white people that is noticed, but the notion of a color blind society is to make their contemporary experience similar to that of voluntary immigrants who arrived as outsiders, faced discrimination but ultimately were able to largely assimilate into public life, while maintaining their different traditions and cultures at home.

I read the link someone posted on why you should not talk about a color blind society. Nothing in that short article even addressed the issues discussed above.

I think the main problem with colorblindness is not the above- which I think would be ideal. It is that most people who claim to be colorblind are not actually colorblind in practice, so it is harmful for children of color, especially black children, to be told to believe that the world is colorblind, only to grow up to see that most people consciously or subconsciously judge you in part or whole based on your race. Real colorblindness takes a lot of work, more than just a declaration.

yes and I find republicans do colorblindness far more successfully than democrats (and my skin tone is the type where police will shoot first and ask questions later)

[Anonymous]

Like any other thread, this one has derailed. If any St. Pat's parents are still reading, I am curious how this is playing out with the new HOS. I knew the school a bit say 2-8 years ago when friends' kid attended and I got regular reports on the parent clique. Had applied for DC a while back and did not think it would be a good fit for my child.

Is the racial dynamic better now and do all kids feel included?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Like any other thread, this one has derailed. If any St. Pat's parents are still reading, I am curious how this is playing out with the new HOS. I knew the school a bit say 2-8 years ago when friends' kid attended and I got regular reports on the parent clique. Had applied for DC a while back and did not think it would be a good fit for my child.

Is the racial dynamic better now and do all kids feel included?

How can a poster on DCUM possibly know how “all kids” at a school feel?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: All --
Seeking a color blind society never meant denying people have different types of pigment in their skin, it meant reaching a point where people would not treat one another differently because of the color of their skin.

It never meant denying that people of different hues had different backgrounds and cultures, but it meant we should strive for a point where those differences were not the dominant way people -- whatever their skin tone -- are identified by others (or by themselves) in their public participation in society. Our history obviously made this a steeper climb with African Americans as did the fact if you are black in a room of white people that is noticed, but the notion of a color blind society is to make their contemporary experience similar to that of voluntary immigrants who arrived as outsiders, faced discrimination but ultimately were able to largely assimilate into public life, while maintaining their different traditions and cultures at home.

I read the link someone posted on why you should not talk about a color blind society. Nothing in that short article even addressed the issues discussed above.

I think the main problem with colorblindness is not the above- which I think would be ideal. It is that most people who claim to be colorblind are not actually colorblind in practice, so it is harmful for children of color, especially black children, to be told to believe that the world is colorblind, only to grow up to see that most people consciously or subconsciously judge you in part or whole based on your race. Real colorblindness takes a lot of work, more than just a declaration.

Thank you for your thoughtful comment, and permit me to reply with a different take. I think the main problem with the modern notion of colorblindness you are critiquing is that there are probably relatively few people who make that assertion in the first place, but many people (yes, particularly progressives but not exclusively) who evidently believe otherwise. Hence, there is a larger attack on the honest goals that many people hold of sincerely wishing to reach a color blind society as described in my earlier post because of some belief -- with I'm willing to bet is not supported by good survey evidence -- that there are many millions of people asserting they are personally "colorblind" when it comes to race. My sense is that when most people use that term (admittedly speculation, as I have no survey evidence on it but grew up in times where that or similar terms were used years ago) only mean that they do not believe they discriminate against people based on race - nothing more. And yes, you can start a conversation now about unconscious bias that's really a debate about what types of bias /prejudice exist in society, but that really isn't directed to what you suggested is the "main problem with colorblindness.

And I would go further and take issue with your conclusion that it is necessarily harmful to black, brown, Asian and other children to tell them the world is colorblind for two reasons. First, I doubt this is a real thing --plenty of Republicans and I think even Fox news commentators have acknowledged there is plenty of real racism in the country. So I'm not sure exactly what is the source or the magnitude of this danger of announcing we live in a colorblind society . But second -- more importantly -- what is the risk of an error. Implicit in your statement is that telling children we live in a colorblind society (if anyone really does that) harms them because they will come up against racism and what -- suddenly crumble at the shock and need therapy for 20 years? I don't believe that is a real risk. Unless kids are raised in a cocoon, they will know racism still exists from a young age. I would offer another possibility. If some kids, somewhere got this colorblind message and then come up against being judged based on their race, they will feel empowered to push back knowing it is not acceptable in a society that declares itself to seek to be a colorblind society; they are empowered to call out real racism directly to the racists believing that is the consensus point of view of America even thought not everyone has gotten there yet. .

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Like any other thread, this one has derailed. If any St. Pat's parents are still reading, I am curious how this is playing out with the new HOS. I knew the school a bit say 2-8 years ago when friends' kid attended and I got regular reports on the parent clique. Had applied for DC a while back and did not think it would be a good fit for my child.

Is the racial dynamic better now and do all kids feel included?

How can a poster on DCUM possibly know how “all kids” at a school feel?

Maybe a parent with a closer view could respond, but if it makes you feel better: does the school seem more inclusive and has the reputation of its parent community improved lately

[Anonymous]

Too woke. The faculty embarrassed itself on “Women’s Day”.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Too woke. The faculty embarrassed itself on “Women’s Day”.

The reality is that D&I programs to more to divide than to unite. This thread is a good example of that dynamic. Folks should focus on themselves and their own families to be kind and inclusive to all races, no more no less.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Too woke. The faculty embarrassed itself on “Women’s Day”.

The reality is that D&I programs to more to divide than to unite. This thread is a good example of that dynamic. Folks should focus on themselves and their own families to be kind and inclusive to all races, no more no less.

Exactly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NP here. I agree with the idea of raising your children to be color blind, but part of other groups DEI efforts it’s not about group think, but rather to be aware of experiences. How will our color blind children respond when someone is treated differently due to race/color? Don’t we need to understand/be aware of experiences of others?

Yes- but who is to say which characteristics shape a person most? I’m white and Jewish but I would say that what defined me most was growing up middle class as the daughter of a teacher and secretary in a blue collar town. I am sure there are thousands of Americans of all colors and religions who would argue the same. Each one of us has the right to choose what defines us.

Yes and for many people of color, they would say their race and how they have been treated has been a defining element in their lives.

Absolutely. But that is their story to tell. I have no right to look at someone and make a broad list of assumptions about them based on any characteristic.

Acknowledging race/color does not ask you to make a broad list of assumptions about any individual based on that observation. It asks you to recognize that you do see color (we all do), work to understand your own internalized racial biases, and be open and empathetic to the experiences racialized experiences of others.

This active engagement in the significance of race in broader American society and history will help to abandon the misconception that an equitable society has been achieved; color blindness acts as if racism is part of a bygone era and greatly inhibits our ability to recognize its subtler manifestations and push things forward.

TLDR: Color blindness makes people blind to racism not race.

As a colored person who has experienced daily racism growing up, I COMPLETELY REJECT THIS REASONING. It is RACIST to "look at my color" and make conclusions about me - we do want a colorblind society and I don't want the tyranny of some sociologist who studies racial correlations reducing those to inferences at my individual level no matter how benign or paternalistic the intent of the beholder. It is absolutely disgusting how so-called progressives arrogate to themselves the right to define my experience of race and continue to use it as a daily category of interpersonal relationships.

Thank you for your very wise post.

Really?

Being a person of color is very different than using the term "colored" which has a ton of historical negative racial connotations associated with its use. I am skeptical that was an actual person of color writing the post you believe was so wise.

[Anonymous]

Didn't read the thread. But our small parochial tried to introduce this "training" for parents a couple of years ago and it did not go over well at all. Thank Goodness. We don't need our school to be tainted with the anti-racist rants of Kendi and the like. We have a very welcoming and accepting community and we don't need our young ones to start being told they are racists, nor do the we parents. Nope, never. So glad we have escaped that cray cray.

[Anonymous]

This is probably why the training at St. Pats is direly needed and racism exists because parents genuinely do not know but assume they know and then teach their children what they think is best.

"To make sense of this discrepancy, I’ve spent the past few years researching how white people think about race and racism and more specifically, how white parents verbally and nonverbally communicate racial messages to their children. What I learned was that white parents often refrain from speaking with their children about race, racism and racial inequality. If racial discussions do occur they are characterized by a colorblind rhetoric. White parents adopt these practices because they believe it will help them raise a non-racist child. From a sociological perspective though, white parents' racial messages may do more harm than good."

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2018/10/05/white-parents-teach-their-children-be-colorblind-heres-why-thats-bad-everyone/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is probably why the training at St. Pats is direly needed and racism exists because parents genuinely do not know but assume they know and then teach their children what they think is best.

"To make sense of this discrepancy, I’ve spent the past few years researching how white people think about race and racism and more specifically, how white parents verbally and nonverbally communicate racial messages to their children. What I learned was that white parents often refrain from speaking with their children about race, racism and racial inequality. If racial discussions do occur they are characterized by a colorblind rhetoric. White parents adopt these practices because they believe it will help them raise a non-racist child. From a sociological perspective though, white parents' racial messages may do more harm than good."

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2018/10/05/white-parents-teach-their-children-be-colorblind-heres-why-thats-bad-everyone/

Yup as a family of color. This whole thread and the ignorant responses make me realize dc is a scary place for children of color. Again with assumptions of what is best for poc without actually taking the time to learn the issues and spewing out language like marxism and liberalism.