Why do you blame your DIL/SIL instead of your son/brother?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So the text reads as follows:

Grandparents - Hi my adoring son. we would love to invite ourselves over to your house for a visit

Harpy wife - This is the wife, NO

More like "Hi Larlo, we'd love to see the kids; is there a time in the next few weeks that works?"

Response from wife's phone: "I saw that you asked Larlo about times to get together. We're really busy in the next few weeks and need to focus on family time when we're not busy. Maybe another month." [Repeat in 4-6 weeks] She's not aggressive, just evasive. I am sure you won't believe this because it doesn't fit your preexisting narrative, but there are truly no facts that would make this normal. My parents are easygoing, nonjudgmental, and eager to be helpful. SIL is not a harpy, but she has chosen to stand in the way of this relationship for reasons that are opaque to me. It is what it is.

So me:

USING THE ACTUAL PHONE AND NOT TEXT:

“Hey bro, how’s it going? Heard mom and dad are trying to meet up with you. Sounds super busy. They really miss you guys, what’s up?”

NO. This does not involve anyone else but Brother and Parents.

Then stay out of it and stop blaming the SIL!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
So look, your brother's wife may be a raging b*tch who wants to ice out his whole family. I won't deny that happens! But the entire point of this thread is that the person to be mad at IS YOUR BROTHER. He sees these communications, and goes along with them. He may be "conflict adverse" and maybe his wife is abusive. That sucks for sure. But it doesn't change the core fact that the only person who can change this dynamic is HIM. Not your SIL. Not your parents.

Yep

What is your basis for this? If she said yes slightly more often, the dynamic would change. My brother is responsible for not forcing the issue, but why is he also responsible for her decisions? The inference I draw from your posts is that a husband should ignore his wife's wishes when it comes to his family and make the visits happen regardless of whether his wife wants them or not - I find that problematic as a default position. But at the same time, she is the owner of her own choices.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So the text reads as follows:

Grandparents - Hi my adoring son. we would love to invite ourselves over to your house for a visit

Harpy wife - This is the wife, NO

More like "Hi Larlo, we'd love to see the kids; is there a time in the next few weeks that works?"

Response from wife's phone: "I saw that you asked Larlo about times to get together. We're really busy in the next few weeks and need to focus on family time when we're not busy. Maybe another month." [Repeat in 4-6 weeks] She's not aggressive, just evasive. I am sure you won't believe this because it doesn't fit your preexisting narrative, but there are truly no facts that would make this normal. My parents are easygoing, nonjudgmental, and eager to be helpful. SIL is not a harpy, but she has chosen to stand in the way of this relationship for reasons that are opaque to me. It is what it is.

So me:

USING THE ACTUAL PHONE AND NOT TEXT:

“Hey bro, how’s it going? Heard mom and dad are trying to meet up with you. Sounds super busy. They really miss you guys, what’s up?”

NO. This does not involve anyone else but Brother and Parents.

Then stay out of it and stop blaming the SIL!

PP with the brother and SIL discussed in this post: the above wasn't me. I do stay out of it. That doesn't mean I don't have opinions on it. Also my brother is 32 and hates talking on the phone, like most young(ish) men.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's not always the same dynamic. My brother's wife definitely prevents my parents from having much of a relationship with their kids. They live 20 minutes apart and see each other maybe 4 times a year. And there's no way to prove this online, but my parents are easy and pleasant to be around. I routinely call them to fly across the country to babysit for me for weeks and they do it, including dishes, yard work, etc. My SIL just doesn't want to facilitate a relationship for reasons unknown and my brother is passive and conflict-averse to the point of being practically dead. Obviously that's on him, but if he were steering the ship my parents would definitely get their wish to babysit now and then or get together more than once a quarter.

But it’s still him! The whole point of this thread, and this illustrates it perfectly. She’s supposed to facilitate because he is a passive doormat.

As I've explained, no one is asking her to do anything to actively facilitate, just not to actively obstruct. My brother brings the kids over to my parents' a lot more when she's out of town. He always chooses the path of least resistance, and that's obviously on him, but choosing to say no to 9/10 requests for a visit is on her. You want this to be black and white, but it's not. My parents ask my brother for times when it would be convenient to visit, he says he'll check with her, and she comes up with excuses for why there are literally no times when it will be possible. She reads his text messages so there is no way to discuss this dynamic directly with him. As I've said many times, no one thinks my brother is blameless, but her choices are unkind for no reason and she is responsible for her own choices.

Like many men, your brother engages with his parents/family when his wife is out of town BECAUSE HE WANTS HELP WITH CHILDCARE/entertaining the kids, not because he misses his family and wants his kids to be close to them. Duh. So, he’s not a hero when she’s not around. He’s just hapless and wants other adults to help pick up the parenting/kid-entertainment slack. Obvious Dad Move.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
So look, your brother's wife may be a raging b*tch who wants to ice out his whole family. I won't deny that happens! But the entire point of this thread is that the person to be mad at IS YOUR BROTHER. He sees these communications, and goes along with them. He may be "conflict adverse" and maybe his wife is abusive. That sucks for sure. But it doesn't change the core fact that the only person who can change this dynamic is HIM. Not your SIL. Not your parents.

Yep

What is your basis for this? If she said yes slightly more often, the dynamic would change. My brother is responsible for not forcing the issue, but why is he also responsible for her decisions? The inference I draw from your posts is that a husband should ignore his wife's wishes when it comes to his family and make the visits happen regardless of whether his wife wants them or not - I find that problematic as a default position. But at the same time, she is the owner of her own choices.

If the spouse is unreasonably withholding time from other spouse's family for no reason, then yes you should override them and see your family anyway.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Its because it is so easy to blame the wife if something is wrong and if something is right, it is their loving son who did it.

For eg. I many years ago organised and paid (joint funds with DH) for a holiday with my in-laws. They didn't have to pay a cent, just show up and enjoy. I asked for ocean views but they put us in a garden view room. My MIL tut tutted at me for trying to ruin their vacation. Blamed me openly and criticised me. DH did get us in another room and it was cleared up however I was blamed.

So I told DH that if he ever wanted to go on vacation with them again he could organise it. He tried the following year but the resort wouldn't confirm an ocean view room, just like what happened with me, you can request it but it was not guaranteed. After that he couldn't be bothered organising it and we have never been away with the in-laws again. I did tell them that the room was not guaranteed however they just thought I was stupid.

Of course its my fault we haven't gone on vacation again. Nothing to do with their son.

Tell them their son was unable to secure an ocean view room and due to their disappointment last time you didn't want to upset them again.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So the text reads as follows:

Grandparents - Hi my adoring son. we would love to invite ourselves over to your house for a visit

Harpy wife - This is the wife, NO

More like "Hi Larlo, we'd love to see the kids; is there a time in the next few weeks that works?"

Response from wife's phone: "I saw that you asked Larlo about times to get together. We're really busy in the next few weeks and need to focus on family time when we're not busy. Maybe another month." [Repeat in 4-6 weeks] She's not aggressive, just evasive. I am sure you won't believe this because it doesn't fit your preexisting narrative, but there are truly no facts that would make this normal. My parents are easygoing, nonjudgmental, and eager to be helpful. SIL is not a harpy, but she has chosen to stand in the way of this relationship for reasons that are opaque to me. It is what it is.

If that’s true (doubtful) YOUR BROTHER has taught her that she can behave that way. He co-signed that behavior. If he wanted to see you more, or wanted his kids to see you more, that’s how it would be. The end.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So the text reads as follows:

Grandparents - Hi my adoring son. we would love to invite ourselves over to your house for a visit

Harpy wife - This is the wife, NO

More like "Hi Larlo, we'd love to see the kids; is there a time in the next few weeks that works?"

Response from wife's phone: "I saw that you asked Larlo about times to get together. We're really busy in the next few weeks and need to focus on family time when we're not busy. Maybe another month." [Repeat in 4-6 weeks] She's not aggressive, just evasive. I am sure you won't believe this because it doesn't fit your preexisting narrative, but there are truly no facts that would make this normal. My parents are easygoing, nonjudgmental, and eager to be helpful. SIL is not a harpy, but she has chosen to stand in the way of this relationship for reasons that are opaque to me. It is what it is.

So me:

USING THE ACTUAL PHONE AND NOT TEXT:

“Hey bro, how’s it going? Heard mom and dad are trying to meet up with you. Sounds super busy. They really miss you guys, what’s up?”

Why would a sister try to manage the relationship of grown adult parents and a grown adult brother? HE’S JUST NOT THAT INTO THEM. It’s not something for Big Sister to “fix.”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's not always the same dynamic. My brother's wife definitely prevents my parents from having much of a relationship with their kids. They live 20 minutes apart and see each other maybe 4 times a year. And there's no way to prove this online, but my parents are easy and pleasant to be around. I routinely call them to fly across the country to babysit for me for weeks and they do it, including dishes, yard work, etc. My SIL just doesn't want to facilitate a relationship for reasons unknown and my brother is passive and conflict-averse to the point of being practically dead. Obviously that's on him, but if he were steering the ship my parents would definitely get their wish to babysit now and then or get together more than once a quarter.

But it’s still him! The whole point of this thread, and this illustrates it perfectly. She’s supposed to facilitate because he is a passive doormat.

As I've explained, no one is asking her to do anything to actively facilitate, just not to actively obstruct. My brother brings the kids over to my parents' a lot more when she's out of town. He always chooses the path of least resistance, and that's obviously on him, but choosing to say no to 9/10 requests for a visit is on her. You want this to be black and white, but it's not. My parents ask my brother for times when it would be convenient to visit, he says he'll check with her, and she comes up with excuses for why there are literally no times when it will be possible. She reads his text messages so there is no way to discuss this dynamic directly with him. As I've said many times, no one thinks my brother is blameless, but her choices are unkind for no reason and she is responsible for her own choices.

Like many men, your brother engages with his parents/family when his wife is out of town BECAUSE HE WANTS HELP WITH CHILDCARE/entertaining the kids, not because he misses his family and wants his kids to be close to them. Duh. So, he’s not a hero when she’s not around. He’s just hapless and wants other adults to help pick up the parenting/kid-entertainment slack. Obvious Dad Move.

So? My parents would love that and would gladly provide free childcare, as they do for me when I'm between nannies and ask them to fly out and help. His feelings and motivations aren't relevant, actions are. Nobody thinks he's a hero. You seem to think there is a little prince situation here, and there isn't. He's lazy and passive and she's obstructionist. They are each responsible for their own actions. That's what I've said all along.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's not always the same dynamic. My brother's wife definitely prevents my parents from having much of a relationship with their kids. They live 20 minutes apart and see each other maybe 4 times a year. And there's no way to prove this online, but my parents are easy and pleasant to be around. I routinely call them to fly across the country to babysit for me for weeks and they do it, including dishes, yard work, etc. My SIL just doesn't want to facilitate a relationship for reasons unknown and my brother is passive and conflict-averse to the point of being practically dead. Obviously that's on him, but if he were steering the ship my parents would definitely get their wish to babysit now and then or get together more than once a quarter.

I'll repeat again that's ultimately still a son/brother problem because he is the one choosing not to speak up and say anything to change the situation. Him being a passive person doesn't give you guys a pass to push the blame off to the DIL/SIL he is an adult with his own agency and he is choosing to be passive and not speak up. That shows if he really wanted a relationship with you guys he would make it happen. He is not a child who has to listen to mom and dad. You guys with these responses are completely missing the OP's point.

His responsibility for his passivity does not absolve her of the responsibility for her agency and actions. The two things can coexist. And my parents tried for a long time to facilitate a relationship through my brother (which is what people are supposed to do! go through their own relative) and she acted like they were trying to go behind her back or usurp her ability to control her family calendar. This isn't my direct problem - we don't bother trying to have a relationship since it's such a one way street and are cordial but have no meaningful connection. But I feel bad for my parents, who would like to have a relationship with their grandkids who live in the same city and barely know them through no fault of their own. I'm generally pro-DIL, but to pretend that the dynamic is always such that they are above reproach is absurd.

She is above reproach because if your brother wanted to truly have a relationship with you guys he is a grown man and wouldn't allow his wife to stop that. It isn't her responsibility to be loyal to you guys or to ensure that the family relationship is continued. Also you never know even if wife wasn't around who is to say your brother would choose to have a relationship with you guys? There could be other factors going on in his mind that you don't know about.

It just boggles my mind that people blame the 3rd party instead of their actual relative the one who owes them the loyalty not the in law who doesn't owe them jack shit. Then again this is the same story old as time where it's easier to blame the outsider the non blood relative that you didn't grow up with then to admit it might be your family member that you grow up with that doesn't want the relationship or has the flaws.

Yeah, that's not what's happening here. Nobody thinks my brother is blameless, and as I said I don't have a meaningful relationship with either of them because it's not worth my time. We text a couple of times a year and they'll come over for an hour when we're visiting my parents. I imagine as we get older all of that will gradually cease and our kids won't know each other at all, which will have been their choice. But in this case she does, in fact, actively obstruct get togethers - that is a choice that she is making. Nobody is asking her to be responsible for the relationship between my parents and her kids, just not to go out of her way to say no to every request that comes through my brother. And of course your ILs owe you some loyalty - they are still family even if not by birth. Grandparents have no rights, nor should they, but to actively prevent a relationship between grandkids and grandparents for no reason is not normal or kind.

Ok but again your brother is ultimately the one deciding to go along with his wife's decision to not have a relationship with you guys. He isn't speaking up and saying no honey I want to see my family. A grown man should be able to speak up for himself and that's a brother problem if he can't do that not a SIL problem.

All of this. Unless the PPP or her parents have some real concerns about controlling or abusive behavior by SIL, this is on her brother completely.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So the text reads as follows:

Grandparents - Hi my adoring son. we would love to invite ourselves over to your house for a visit

Harpy wife - This is the wife, NO

More like "Hi Larlo, we'd love to see the kids; is there a time in the next few weeks that works?"

Response from wife's phone: "I saw that you asked Larlo about times to get together. We're really busy in the next few weeks and need to focus on family time when we're not busy. Maybe another month." [Repeat in 4-6 weeks] She's not aggressive, just evasive. I am sure you won't believe this because it doesn't fit your preexisting narrative, but there are truly no facts that would make this normal. My parents are easygoing, nonjudgmental, and eager to be helpful. SIL is not a harpy, but she has chosen to stand in the way of this relationship for reasons that are opaque to me. It is what it is.

If that’s true (doubtful) YOUR BROTHER has taught her that she can behave that way. He co-signed that behavior. If he wanted to see you more, or wanted his kids to see you more, that’s how it would be. The end.

So he is responsible for her behavior as well as his own? And, for the seemingly 100th time, this isn't about me. We effectively don't have a relationship. We live far apart and I don't waste my time on people who don't reciprocate. We exchange kid birthday gifts and that's it. At some point my parents will probably move closer to us and my brother and SIL will have no family. That won't be beneficial to their kids but it's hard to see this playing out any other way.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's not always the same dynamic. My brother's wife definitely prevents my parents from having much of a relationship with their kids. They live 20 minutes apart and see each other maybe 4 times a year. And there's no way to prove this online, but my parents are easy and pleasant to be around. I routinely call them to fly across the country to babysit for me for weeks and they do it, including dishes, yard work, etc. My SIL just doesn't want to facilitate a relationship for reasons unknown and my brother is passive and conflict-averse to the point of being practically dead. Obviously that's on him, but if he were steering the ship my parents would definitely get their wish to babysit now and then or get together more than once a quarter.

But it’s still him! The whole point of this thread, and this illustrates it perfectly. She’s supposed to facilitate because he is a passive doormat.

As I've explained, no one is asking her to do anything to actively facilitate, just not to actively obstruct. My brother brings the kids over to my parents' a lot more when she's out of town. He always chooses the path of least resistance, and that's obviously on him, but choosing to say no to 9/10 requests for a visit is on her. You want this to be black and white, but it's not. My parents ask my brother for times when it would be convenient to visit, he says he'll check with her, and she comes up with excuses for why there are literally no times when it will be possible. She reads his text messages so there is no way to discuss this dynamic directly with him. As I've said many times, no one thinks my brother is blameless, but her choices are unkind for no reason and she is responsible for her own choices.

Like many men, your brother engages with his parents/family when his wife is out of town BECAUSE HE WANTS HELP WITH CHILDCARE/entertaining the kids, not because he misses his family and wants his kids to be close to them. Duh. So, he’s not a hero when she’s not around. He’s just hapless and wants other adults to help pick up the parenting/kid-entertainment slack. Obvious Dad Move.

So? My parents would love that and would gladly provide free childcare, as they do for me when I'm between nannies and ask them to fly out and help. His feelings and motivations aren't relevant, actions are. Nobody thinks he's a hero. You seem to think there is a little prince situation here, and there isn't. He's lazy and passive and she's obstructionist. They are each responsible for their own actions. That's what I've said all along.

Why does he not being into your family of origin make him “lazy”? Not everyone is motivated to spend time with people they clearly don’t like/care about that much Because Family.

Why does she not being into your family make her “obstructionist”? Not everyone is motivated to spend time with people they clearly don’t like/care about that much Because Family.

They…don’t want to hang out with you that much. Why is that something you gnash your teeth over? Go spend time with people who actually like you/your parents.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
So look, your brother's wife may be a raging b*tch who wants to ice out his whole family. I won't deny that happens! But the entire point of this thread is that the person to be mad at IS YOUR BROTHER. He sees these communications, and goes along with them. He may be "conflict adverse" and maybe his wife is abusive. That sucks for sure. But it doesn't change the core fact that the only person who can change this dynamic is HIM. Not your SIL. Not your parents.

Yep

What is your basis for this? If she said yes slightly more often, the dynamic would change. My brother is responsible for not forcing the issue, but why is he also responsible for her decisions? The inference I draw from your posts is that a husband should ignore his wife's wishes when it comes to his family and make the visits happen regardless of whether his wife wants them or not - I find that problematic as a default position. But at the same time, she is the owner of her own choices.

So you said brother lives only 10 miles from your parents? Does he ever see your parents withOUT his wife and kids? It would be odd for a son to go months (as you say) without seeing his local parents. Even if they couldn’t make a whole family visit work schedule-wise (or the wife was being obstructionist), surely your brother would meet his parents occasionally for lunch? Go golfing or to watch a game or similar activity with his dad once in awhile? Stop by and help with a project? stuff like that? , If your brother isn’t seeing them at ALL- or months go by without seeing them, then there are problems between your brother and your parents, even if you are not aware. FYI.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's not always the same dynamic. My brother's wife definitely prevents my parents from having much of a relationship with their kids. They live 20 minutes apart and see each other maybe 4 times a year. And there's no way to prove this online, but my parents are easy and pleasant to be around. I routinely call them to fly across the country to babysit for me for weeks and they do it, including dishes, yard work, etc. My SIL just doesn't want to facilitate a relationship for reasons unknown and my brother is passive and conflict-averse to the point of being practically dead. Obviously that's on him, but if he were steering the ship my parents would definitely get their wish to babysit now and then or get together more than once a quarter.

But it’s still him! The whole point of this thread, and this illustrates it perfectly. She’s supposed to facilitate because he is a passive doormat.

As I've explained, no one is asking her to do anything to actively facilitate, just not to actively obstruct. My brother brings the kids over to my parents' a lot more when she's out of town. He always chooses the path of least resistance, and that's obviously on him, but choosing to say no to 9/10 requests for a visit is on her. You want this to be black and white, but it's not. My parents ask my brother for times when it would be convenient to visit, he says he'll check with her, and she comes up with excuses for why there are literally no times when it will be possible. She reads his text messages so there is no way to discuss this dynamic directly with him. As I've said many times, no one thinks my brother is blameless, but her choices are unkind for no reason and she is responsible for her own choices.

Like many men, your brother engages with his parents/family when his wife is out of town BECAUSE HE WANTS HELP WITH CHILDCARE/entertaining the kids, not because he misses his family and wants his kids to be close to them. Duh. So, he’s not a hero when she’s not around. He’s just hapless and wants other adults to help pick up the parenting/kid-entertainment slack. Obvious Dad Move.

So? My parents would love that and would gladly provide free childcare, as they do for me when I'm between nannies and ask them to fly out and help. His feelings and motivations aren't relevant, actions are. Nobody thinks he's a hero. You seem to think there is a little prince situation here, and there isn't. He's lazy and passive and she's obstructionist. They are each responsible for their own actions. That's what I've said all along.

Or, she’s tired of having to solve everything for her lazy husband, who defers to her for every little thing, including seeing his parents. He could scoop the kids up after school to drive 20 min for a short dinner, but can’t seem to do that all by himself. He could pick up the phone and dial your parents to arrange a visit, but he doesn’t.

Also, what doesn’t seem to have occurred to you, is that like many families, they may be truly busy, esp silly if there is only one spouse pulling their weight.

[Anonymous]

I think part of it is that the sons/brothers don't organize/plan anything. At least, this is the dynamic in my marriage. My husband will say vaguely "we should go see MIL soon" but then he takes no steps to make it happen. I could take upon myself to organize it but they live on the west coast and it's a massive hassle to travel there in the best of times, not to mention the dangers of cross-country flights with two unvaccinated kids. So I choose not to make it a priority, and we haven't been out there in a couple of years.

I'm pretty sure MIL blames me for the lack of visits, because she knows I am the one who organizes our travel for the most part. And that's true, but if my husband wanted to step up and do the planning, he could. Anyway, I don't really care that she blames me bc...we don't see her that often. Lol.