When friends’ views on money/life diverge . . . .

[Anonymous]

Just got together with a friend this week and realized our views on life and money are so different that I don’t know how to say anything in front of her for fear she’ll jump all over me.

Known each other for 13 years. Both from immigrant families. I grew up in NJ, middle/slightly UMC, parents came here from an eastern culture that values stability and wealth. Parents encouraged us kids to go into the $$$ professions like finance, law, med. Not much encouragement required for me bc while we had a nice life growing up, I wanted all the things we didn’t have – luxury cars, vacations etc. Ended up in i-banking for a few yrs and then went to law school, did the big law thing for 9-10 yrs and then 2-3 yrs ago switched over to in house.

Friend – also immigrant parents (different culture). Grew up in Harlem – middle/lower middle class. Both of us ended up in biglaw though it isn’t a colleague situation – friends for 13 yrs, hang out together outside of work all the time, some travel together etc. She stayed in biglaw for ~4 yrs and then went to a non profit.

Got together this week in NYC and it’s amazing to me how much she harped on – money doesn’t matter/is no object (and no there isn’t a DH who is providing or family money). I have no problem with service to others/taking a pay cut for work life balance etc. IF you have taken care of yourself financially first – solid standard of living, investments etc. Yet whenever we talk and when we got together she has a way of “talking down” or saying "no big deal" to anything nice that I mention -- whether a new car (not even luxury) or a 5 star hotel. It’s not like I’m the type who is boasting about jetting off to Monaco or a new Porsche yearly, or even talking about things that I personally have/am buying. I’m just talking a regular nice UMC life where you mention – oh saw that new condo building, it looks cool and she goes – ugh no one needs that, they’re ugly, it’s not worth it, what are you really getting living there as compared to a building built in 1900 with no central AC, AC doesn't matter etc.

She harped on how money is NBD and she left biglaw making like 250k (some yrs ago) and her non profit job pays like ~75k and it's perfectly fine. I bit my tongue while thinking – yeah but at nearly 40 with higher education, not everyone WANTS to live in Harlem (and I don’t mean one of the new fancy construction buildings in Harlem); or deny themselves cabs/ubers if they don’t feel like walking home; or have to even think twice when they need a few new sweaters or suits or a toaster. All of these are examples that have come up. And yet she has this way of acting like I’m being a brat for having the view of – I’ve worked hard for a lot of years, I want a nice life and I don’t want to be in a position where my winter coat rips and I try to get by in 30 degree temps rather than just going to a store and spending $300 on a new coat.

Ever have this happen? Did the friendship survive?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Just got together with a friend this week and realized our views on life and money are so different that I don’t know how to say anything in front of her for fear she’ll jump all over me.

Known each other for 13 years. Both from immigrant families. I grew up in NJ, middle/slightly UMC, parents came here from an eastern culture that values stability and wealth. Parents encouraged us kids to go into the $$$ professions like finance, law, med. Not much encouragement required for me bc while we had a nice life growing up, I wanted all the things we didn’t have – luxury cars, vacations etc. Ended up in i-banking for a few yrs and then went to law school, did the big law thing for 9-10 yrs and then 2-3 yrs ago switched over to in house.

Friend – also immigrant parents (different culture). Grew up in Harlem – middle/lower middle class. Both of us ended up in biglaw though it isn’t a colleague situation – friends for 13 yrs, hang out together outside of work all the time, some travel together etc. She stayed in biglaw for ~4 yrs and then went to a non profit.

Got together this week in NYC and it’s amazing to me how much she harped on – money doesn’t matter/is no object (and no there isn’t a DH who is providing or family money). I have no problem with service to others/taking a pay cut for work life balance etc. IF you have taken care of yourself financially first – solid standard of living, investments etc. Yet whenever we talk and when we got together she has a way of “talking down” or saying "no big deal" to anything nice that I mention -- whether a new car (not even luxury) or a 5 star hotel. It’s not like I’m the type who is boasting about jetting off to Monaco or a new Porsche yearly, or even talking about things that I personally have/am buying. I’m just talking a regular nice UMC life where you mention – oh saw that new condo building, it looks cool and she goes – ugh no one needs that, they’re ugly, it’s not worth it, what are you really getting living there as compared to a building built in 1900 with no central AC, AC doesn't matter etc.

She harped on how money is NBD and she left biglaw making like 250k (some yrs ago) and her non profit job pays like ~75k and it's perfectly fine. I bit my tongue while thinking – yeah but at nearly 40 with higher education, not everyone WANTS to live in Harlem (and I don’t mean one of the new fancy construction buildings in Harlem); or deny themselves cabs/ubers if they don’t feel like walking home; or have to even think twice when they need a few new sweaters or suits or a toaster. All of these are examples that have come up. And yet she has this way of acting like I’m being a brat for having the view of – I’ve worked hard for a lot of years, I want a nice life and I don’t want to be in a position where my winter coat rips and I try to get by in 30 degree temps rather than just going to a store and spending $300 on a new coat.

Ever have this happen? Did the friendship survive?

You sound incredibly materialistic and judgmental. You "don't have a problem" with people working in non-profits, as long as they meet your standard of living? You have to bite your tongue to not tell your friend she's a failure for living in Harlem? You're a jerk.

[Anonymous]

You ARE a brat if you brag about staying in 5 star hotels when you know your friend makes $75k in NYC. I hope she drops you. You don’t deserve her.

Also, even having a car in NYC is a huge luxury. My investment banker BIL and SIL don’t have one, rental parking spaces are out of her reach. You are so tone deaf.

[Anonymous]

What the PPs said.

I make 3X what my closest friends make. But I take trips they can afford and stay in places they want to stay. I don't even mention if I'm going to say...Switzerland for a week, I just go and if they want to discuss it or sign on for a girl's trip up the coast when I get back I say yes.

Don't be an asshole.

[Anonymous]

She’s too good for you, OP. You should find yourself some Joneses to keep up with.

[Anonymous]

It sounds like she is hearing bragging/or judgement in your comments about property, vacations, cars even if that isn't your intent. You can either decide you aren't a good friend match anymore, or you can focus on the stuff you do have in common and like about her.

[Anonymous]

OP had this same situation come up in my friend group. One friend went down the non profit road, rest of us stayed in biglaw or in house. Those of us in biglaw and in house aren't doing anything over the top - we're not jetting off to Monaco like you say. But compared to the friend making non profit money, even our "regular" things are a lot -- even though we don't discuss specifics. After a while we noticed that friend started to act a lot like yours -- almost acting insecure about her choice to go into a job making 100k or less and then going on about how it was so important to serve the world (the implication being, that we were lesser humans for taking care of ourselves first).

Reality is no one wants to be backhandedly criticized for the way they live. She wouldn't stand for it if you said -- OMG why can't you just go buy a new suit. Well then you don't have to stand for it when she constantly tells you everything you like is dumb.

Our group is still friends with that friend but it's cooled significantly because no one wants to be judged all the time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It sounds like she is hearing bragging/or judgement in your comments about property, vacations, cars even if that isn't your intent. You can either decide you aren't a good friend match anymore, or you can focus on the stuff you do have in common and like about her.

THIS. My sense is that you aren't talking about YOUR property, car, vacations, or house. My sense is that you're saying -- oh such and such new hotel or vacation spot sounds great. She's hearing it/choosing to hear it as judgment because she assumes that you will go to said place and because she likely can't (or can't without great planning/sacrifice), she's reacting with -- oh that sounds dumb, what's the big deal about a 5 star resort, you're not sitting in the room all day etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP had this same situation come up in my friend group. One friend went down the non profit road, rest of us stayed in biglaw or in house. Those of us in biglaw and in house aren't doing anything over the top - we're not jetting off to Monaco like you say. But compared to the friend making non profit money, even our "regular" things are a lot -- even though we don't discuss specifics. After a while we noticed that friend started to act a lot like yours -- almost acting insecure about her choice to go into a job making 100k or less and then going on about how it was so important to serve the world (the implication being, that we were lesser humans for taking care of ourselves first).

Reality is no one wants to be backhandedly criticized for the way they live. She wouldn't stand for it if you said -- OMG why can't you just go buy a new suit. Well then you don't have to stand for it when she constantly tells you everything you like is dumb.

Our group is still friends with that friend but it's cooled significantly because no one wants to be judged all the time.

Oh, a group of biglaw assholes! How unique! Hahahaha.

You are being super defensive. You guys brag about your big luxuries, she says she prefers her nonprofit goal, you feel judged and drop her. Well, she is right.

At least we know how you roll. It is OK but you need to own it and not feel insecure.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You ARE a brat if you brag about staying in 5 star hotels when you know your friend makes $75k in NYC. I hope she drops you. You don’t deserve her.

Also, even having a car in NYC is a huge luxury. My investment banker BIL and SIL don’t have one, rental parking spaces are out of her reach. You are so tone deaf.

It’s not like I’m the type who is boasting about jetting off to Monaco or a new Porsche yearly, or even talking about things that I personally have/am buying. I’m just talking a regular nice UMC life where you mention – oh saw that new condo building, it looks cool and she goes – ugh no one needs that, they’re ugly, it’s not worth it, what are you really getting living there as compared to a building built in 1900 with no central AC, AC doesn't matter etc.


NOT talking about things I personally have or am buying. Literally any mention of anything nice gets a reaction. I am NOT saying one should have a car in NYC -- I certainly didn't. But I don't see what's soooo terrible about saying -- said car or said condo building look cool -- with no implication that either of us should buy it. Yet it gets a reaction of -- OMG that's so dumb and unnecessary.

[Anonymous]

I think you're both guilty of the same behavior on opposite sides of the spectrum.

You seem defensive and a bit materialistic and judgy about her poorer lifestyle.

She seems defensive and a bit insecure and judgy about your more lavish lifestyle.

You're friends. Talk about it. Talk less about wealth and more about substance. You seem to tie value to those things - and she may tie value to not making things a priority in life.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP had this same situation come up in my friend group. One friend went down the non profit road, rest of us stayed in biglaw or in house. Those of us in biglaw and in house aren't doing anything over the top - we're not jetting off to Monaco like you say. But compared to the friend making non profit money, even our "regular" things are a lot -- even though we don't discuss specifics. After a while we noticed that friend started to act a lot like yours -- almost acting insecure about her choice to go into a job making 100k or less and then going on about how it was so important to serve the world (the implication being, that we were lesser humans for taking care of ourselves first).

Reality is no one wants to be backhandedly criticized for the way they live. She wouldn't stand for it if you said -- OMG why can't you just go buy a new suit. Well then you don't have to stand for it when she constantly tells you everything you like is dumb.

Our group is still friends with that friend but it's cooled significantly because no one wants to be judged all the time.

Oh, a group of biglaw assholes! How unique! Hahahaha.

You are being super defensive. You guys brag about your big luxuries, she says she prefers her nonprofit goal, you feel judged and drop her. Well, she is right.

At least we know how you roll. It is OK but you need to own it and not feel insecure.

Think what you want but LOL at a 700k shit shack or going to the Outer Banks being a BIG luxury. I'm not defensive about it. I like OP have the view -- very openly -- that I need to take care of me and my family first. If others want to sacrifice $$ to serve others, God bless them, but it isn't for me right now until I feel totally financially secure. As for judging -- she's the one telling us everything we say or do is dumb; we have never said that to her -- if she wants to serve, that's great, we don't sit there and criticize her.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think you're both guilty of the same behavior on opposite sides of the spectrum.

You seem defensive and a bit materialistic and judgy about her poorer lifestyle.

She seems defensive and a bit insecure and judgy about your more lavish lifestyle.

You're friends. Talk about it. Talk less about wealth and more about substance. You seem to tie value to those things - and she may tie value to not making things a priority in life.

THIS. She may actually not be meaning to say that every condo or car or whatever is dumb. She may actually be saying that it has no value to HER -- i.e. if you want it, go ahead but she doesn't get why anyone would spend $$ on it when they could take the subway or live in an older building or whatever. You grew up with stars in your eyes for the nicer things (I'm not judging -- I did too), she 100% may NOT have grown up like that and truly may not get why someone desires a Mercedes or a Ritz Carlton when a Toyota and a Holiday Inn do the same job in her book.

[Anonymous]

Lol at all the holier than thous picking on OP for being honest about noticing and wanting the nicer things, when 99% of them are always on this board lamenting how you can barely get by and scrape into the middle class at 350k.

[Anonymous]

I don't see how you can still be friends with the terrible attitude you have, OP.