When friends’ views on money/life diverge . . . .

[Anonymous]

You are going to drift apart. I am like OPs friend. I make a good living with DH but we have been friends with IB’s and big law couples and other Richie rich’s. In the past year we have somewhat drifted apart bc I can’t keep up with the new Chanel’s and LVs and the trips and cars and houses. The ones who do have basically have started their own clique. I’m sick of trying to measure up and always feeling worthless. So we have decided to drop them

[Anonymous]

OP – often (not always) when people leave a corporate type of job and go into a non profit type of job furthering a certain mission, they become ALL about that mission. Often they had some reason why they already believed in that mission and now working in that space, it becomes their “purpose.” This is different from the people who leave biglaw because they’ve made their money or because the job provides the work life balance/hours they’re looking for. Sounds like your friend is one of these people who REALLY believes in what she’s doing which sounds it’s in the social justice/racial equality space. So she talks about it all the time because she cares and at some level she doesn’t get how everyone doesn’t care. She isn’t saying it, but she doesn’t get why you don’t care and probably is internally rolling her eyes at the things she considers “trite” – fancy homes, cars, luxury hotels – when there are so many people in her world being treated unfairly, living with income inequality etc.
I’m not saying she’s right or you’re wrong. It’s just that your views on the world have totally diverged and IDK if they’ll ever converge again the way they did when you were 25 or 28 in the same type of job. Doesn’t mean you cut off the friendship, but maybe you guys pull back to preserve the friendship to some extent – or else you’ll irritate each other so much that it’ll be irreparable. Maybe it should just be invites to events or parties or with groups for a little while, rather than the sit and talk type of friendship.

[Anonymous]

You had me til you presented two stark choices: walk around sub freezing temps in tattered clothing OR spend $300 on a coat. Surely you know a coat can easily be replaced at a consignment store for $30ish. A nice coat, even. Maybe your friend is trying to teach you the value of money.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Friendships change over time. Money is just one reason why, though often a big reason. If it's valuable to you, then even though it isn't really fair -- you will avoid the issues she's insecure about -- things; cars; vacations; etc. Like the PPs above, if you want to continue to be friends focus on ideas, events, etc. not who is going where/how cool it would be to live here or drive there because clearly that's hurting her feelings even though you aren't bragging about your OWN trips or commenting on where she should live.

OP doesn’t have any ideas. All her conversation in the first post about cars, house, etc. Who wants boring friends?

OP here -- somehow I've survived 3+ decades of my life with no ideas. Don't know how I've managed really.

Reality is -- the ideas I have she doesn't care about; I read about and think about business, finance, the markets, interesting small businesses etc. Her ideas -- prison reform, black people being punished more severely, black lives matter, school to prison issues (she isn't black). Frankly I don't care about her ideas as much as she doesn't care about mine. Before this non profit job, she NEVER talked about social justice and now it's what she's into. I think the dr. above is right. The friendship is running its course and sadly may evolve into one where we see each other 4x a year at BBQs and parties, not one where the two of us grab dinner and talk.

You still don't talk about ideas. You are talking about money and about jobs. What is your hobby? Where do you travel? What book have you recently read? Did you run some cool race? Do you have a life outside your work and your paycheck?

I have no doubt that you survived so far. But your life sounds very bland -- so far, I have not seen anything interesting about you other than your job.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Friendships change over time. Money is just one reason why, though often a big reason. If it's valuable to you, then even though it isn't really fair -- you will avoid the issues she's insecure about -- things; cars; vacations; etc. Like the PPs above, if you want to continue to be friends focus on ideas, events, etc. not who is going where/how cool it would be to live here or drive there because clearly that's hurting her feelings even though you aren't bragging about your OWN trips or commenting on where she should live.

This, though I would leave out the stuff about it not being fair to OP. I grew up enough wealthier than most of my friends (who were also UMC, but my parents both had high-paying jobs), and my parents were also wealthier than my aunts and uncles. I guess because of that, I grew up my whole life knowing how/when to talk about money-related things. And, yes, talking about how cool an expensive car or condo building is when you can afford it and the person you're with can't *is* talking about money. And even if it weren't, you obviously don't have the same taste in places to live...so why would you expect a discussion about whether a building is cool or not to go well with her. I don't like sports cars, even the ones I can afford. So my brother, who does like them, doesn't waste a lot of his time talking about them with me...it wouldn't be an interesting discussion.

If you value the friendship, talk about the things you have in common. I was a grad student for almost a decade while some of my college friends were making loads of money as investment bankers. Guess what? They planned activities with me that I could afford, even though I knew they otherwise spent a lot more on dinner etc. And they talked to me about things that we continued to have in common. It's really not that hard.

+1.

And I recently reconnected with my college best friend. Was VERY reluctant to do so, but he insisted so I did. I felt we'd have NOTHING to talk about and he and his wife look down on me the entire time because he is a hedge fund PM, routinely named in top 40 under 40 in hedge funds, easily makes 10mil+ per year and just bought a Manhattan pad costing no less than 10mil while I am a government lawyer making 150k who was on a business trip to NYC for 2 nights. And guess what -- we ordered takeout Chinese, sat around and talked about old times, my business trip, our families, sports, and lord knows what else. At no time did he suggest that I should buy myself a pad in NYC or what 5 star in London is the best -- and we DID talk about how much all of us love London --the city, the sights, the shows -- NOT the hotels.

I have friends like that, including big law partner. We are millions of dollars apart, but I love to talk to him about books we read, shows we've seen. He is super down to earth and never in a million years you would know how rich he is. He is genuinely interested in my kids, my projects, my family. I truly admire people like that because not only they were able to make a lot of money, but they were able to remain very humble.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Lol at all the holier than thous picking on OP for being honest about noticing and wanting the nicer things, when 99% of them are always on this board lamenting how you can barely get by and scrape into the middle class at 350k.

No one is picking on OP for wanting to make money and have nice things.

But in the same post she goes on to diss her friend "at 40...who the hell wants to live in a crummy ass Harlem building..."

That's not cool or being a friend.

Crummy ass Harlem buildings to for $2M+.

I suspect she has a high net worth and is just speaking her values.

Next time you hang out, so something fabulous and free, like take the early ferry to Governors Island.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Just got together with a friend this week and realized our views on life and money are so different that I don’t know how to say anything in front of her for fear she’ll jump all over me.

Known each other for 13 years. Both from immigrant families. I grew up in NJ, middle/slightly UMC, parents came here from an eastern culture that values stability and wealth. Parents encouraged us kids to go into the $$$ professions like finance, law, med. Not much encouragement required for me bc while we had a nice life growing up, I wanted all the things we didn’t have – luxury cars, vacations etc. Ended up in i-banking for a few yrs and then went to law school, did the big law thing for 9-10 yrs and then 2-3 yrs ago switched over to in house.

Friend – also immigrant parents (different culture). Grew up in Harlem – middle/lower middle class. Both of us ended up in biglaw though it isn’t a colleague situation – friends for 13 yrs, hang out together outside of work all the time, some travel together etc. She stayed in biglaw for ~4 yrs and then went to a non profit.

Got together this week in NYC and it’s amazing to me how much she harped on – money doesn’t matter/is no object (and no there isn’t a DH who is providing or family money). I have no problem with service to others/taking a pay cut for work life balance etc. IF you have taken care of yourself financially first – solid standard of living, investments etc. Yet whenever we talk and when we got together she has a way of “talking down” or saying "no big deal" to anything nice that I mention -- whether a new car (not even luxury) or a 5 star hotel. It’s not like I’m the type who is boasting about jetting off to Monaco or a new Porsche yearly, or even talking about things that I personally have/am buying. I’m just talking a regular nice UMC life where you mention – oh saw that new condo building, it looks cool and she goes – ugh no one needs that, they’re ugly, it’s not worth it, what are you really getting living there as compared to a building built in 1900 with no central AC, AC doesn't matter etc.

She harped on how money is NBD and she left biglaw making like 250k (some yrs ago) and her non profit job pays like ~75k and it's perfectly fine. I bit my tongue while thinking – yeah but at nearly 40 with higher education, not everyone WANTS to live in Harlem (and I don’t mean one of the new fancy construction buildings in Harlem); or deny themselves cabs/ubers if they don’t feel like walking home; or have to even think twice when they need a few new sweaters or suits or a toaster. All of these are examples that have come up. And yet she has this way of acting like I’m being a brat for having the view of – I’ve worked hard for a lot of years, I want a nice life and I don’t want to be in a position where my winter coat rips and I try to get by in 30 degree temps rather than just going to a store and spending $300 on a new coat.

Ever have this happen? Did the friendship survive?

You sound absolutely insufferable. Just more proof that women are the worst people on earth.

PS---nobody gives a shit how much you make.

[Anonymous]

OP you sound INSANELY annoying / tone-deaf. And like not a very happy person

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Friendships change over time. Money is just one reason why, though often a big reason. If it's valuable to you, then even though it isn't really fair -- you will avoid the issues she's insecure about -- things; cars; vacations; etc. Like the PPs above, if you want to continue to be friends focus on ideas, events, etc. not who is going where/how cool it would be to live here or drive there because clearly that's hurting her feelings even though you aren't bragging about your OWN trips or commenting on where she should live.

OP doesn’t have any ideas. All her conversation in the first post about cars, house, etc. Who wants boring friends?

OP here -- somehow I've survived 3+ decades of my life with no ideas. Don't know how I've managed really.

Reality is -- the ideas I have she doesn't care about; I read about and think about business, finance, the markets, interesting small businesses etc. Her ideas -- prison reform, black people being punished more severely, black lives matter, school to prison issues (she isn't black). Frankly I don't care about her ideas as much as she doesn't care about mine. Before this non profit job, she NEVER talked about social justice and now it's what she's into. I think the dr. above is right. The friendship is running its course and sadly may evolve into one where we see each other 4x a year at BBQs and parties, not one where the two of us grab dinner and talk.

You still don't talk about ideas. You are talking about money and about jobs. What is your hobby? Where do you travel? What book have you recently read? Did you run some cool race? Do you have a life outside your work and your paycheck?

I have no doubt that you survived so far. But your life sounds very bland -- so far, I have not seen anything interesting about you other than your job.

+1 When you are the kind of person who defines yourself by your money (which OP clearly is), it becomes clear that you are simply boring. You are two-dimensional and uninteresting, not to mention tiresome.

You yourself admit that she could have what you "have" - she has chosen not to. Good for her

[Anonymous]

OP, we drifted apart with a friend like you. She went to big law. Always was into "things", especially designers clothes, cars. She purchased her older kid brand new german car as soon as kid got a license. She paid for the kid summer courses in Columbia, Harvard, etc. and bragged that the kid will go only to Ivy. She spent a fortune on SAT prep courses, tutors. The kid ended up going to the state school, not even top one.

I worked like you friend, for meager $60k a year. Kids went to good public, no prep courses, both got admitted to Ivy schools and got full financial aid. My friend no longer talking to me.

[Anonymous]

Your friend has the “new school” view of biglaw. It used to be that people like you would come and stay for as long as they could bc the goals were building up a solid net worth, investments, and living in fancy homes, luxury hotels etc. and they were willing to work long hours for that; in your opinion – why on earth would anyone let that lifestyle slip away?

Yet I’ve been in the industry since 2000 and in the last 18 years, there are many more associates coming in with no desire to be there for more than 2-4 years, no matter what they are paid. And most often they do NOT have family wealth or rich spouses. They get the firm name on their resume, pay off/pay down their debt to manageable levels, and move on to what they REALLY want to do. They don’t see the money as enough to keep them from doing what they really want, which in your friend’s case is social justice – no chance that she would ever have gotten 1 single second of that work in biglaw ever.

When you become friends with people when you’re young and in a common setting, you assume that person will turn out to have the same wants as you (similar to the dr. above who made friends with med school friends at 22 only to find much later they look down on his passion for lower paid research and they’re fine working in private practice urology dealing with ED all day bc it affords them the Four Seasons Hawaii 2x/yr). This friend didn’t turn out like you, and now you can’t fathom why anyone would walk away from a 300k job for a 75k job. Well your friend isn’t bothered by making only 75k. Bet you she is totally content living in a prewar Harlem walk up and [gasp] clipping coupons, bringing her lunch to work, and cleaning her own home, while your views is – I went to Harvard (or wherever) and worked long and hard to NOT have to do those things and to be able to pay a cleaning service, splurge on cabs when I don’t feel like walking, buy a $300 coat every time I walk by one in a store window I like, and spend $1500 on a 3 day weekend any time. Different values. Neither is right or wrong (frankly I’m more like you), but you have to get that your friend just does NOT care about these things and she’d rather clip coupons if it means her days are spent working with individuals who were discriminated against or whatever.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, we drifted apart with a friend like you. She went to big law. Always was into "things", especially designers clothes, cars. She purchased her older kid brand new german car as soon as kid got a license. She paid for the kid summer courses in Columbia, Harvard, etc. and bragged that the kid will go only to Ivy. She spent a fortune on SAT prep courses, tutors. The kid ended up going to the state school, not even top one.

I worked like you friend, for meager $60k a year. Kids went to good public, no prep courses, both got admitted to Ivy schools and got full financial aid. My friend no longer talking to me.

OP here -- Ok well your friend is dumb. I see nothing wrong with designer things, buying a german car (though for me/DH, not for a kid -- they can buy their own when they earn), paying for ivy summer programs, SAT classes etc., but bragging the kid will ONLY go to an ivy before he's admitted -- LOL. I don't think you can guarantee your kid going to any place with a sub 5 or 7% acceptance rate until after the acceptance letter is in hand and your money (unless you truly are Bill Gates which biglaw partners aren't) isn't going to get your kid in. If your kid can't cut it, he can't; if kids from families making 60k can get in, they will, regardless of their parents' jobs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Friendships change over time. Money is just one reason why, though often a big reason. If it's valuable to you, then even though it isn't really fair -- you will avoid the issues she's insecure about -- things; cars; vacations; etc. Like the PPs above, if you want to continue to be friends focus on ideas, events, etc. not who is going where/how cool it would be to live here or drive there because clearly that's hurting her feelings even though you aren't bragging about your OWN trips or commenting on where she should live.

OP doesn’t have any ideas. All her conversation in the first post about cars, house, etc. Who wants boring friends?

THIS. I've long had a lot more money than almost everyone I associate with and I never talk about those things. They're meaningless and boring.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Friendships change over time. Money is just one reason why, though often a big reason. If it's valuable to you, then even though it isn't really fair -- you will avoid the issues she's insecure about -- things; cars; vacations; etc. Like the PPs above, if you want to continue to be friends focus on ideas, events, etc. not who is going where/how cool it would be to live here or drive there because clearly that's hurting her feelings even though you aren't bragging about your OWN trips or commenting on where she should live.

OP doesn’t have any ideas. All her conversation in the first post about cars, house, etc. Who wants boring friends?

THIS. I've long had a lot more money than almost everyone I associate with and I never talk about those things. They're meaningless and boring.

OP here -- ok well I don't find architecture and construction boring -- it's my other passion other than the market/business/finance. I think people think I'm sitting around saying -- wow that condo listed for 2.2mil. I'm not. I'm commenting on the actual construction, views, design. Sorry that bores you so.

[Anonymous]

She's happy living in her Harlem walk up. You'll never get it because you know she can do better. I don't get it either TBH. Just leave it alone and let the friendship fade.