Women whose partner's make enough for them to stay home, why do you prefer working?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My sole earner husband mostly works from home and is around and available as much as any working parent. The absentee-dad story is a myth that working moms tell. He will be retiring at 55.

OP started the thread because her husband was absent so there is that.

She didn’t say that in her OP at all. She said she found working and tending the home to be exhausting so she left.

She said it a few posts down from her OP. This thread started because OP doesn’t have a good husband or father to her children.

Yes, and she also said things like no man can be as involved a father as a woman can be a mother. She either has some backwards upbringing and values, or she has a really really terrible DH. Or both.

I suspect her DH isn’t all that different from any of the other DHs whose wives quit because things just ran so much better when they did.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Well said. I’m not raising my daughter to feel forced into maintaining employment if she doesn’t have to, simply for other hypothetical females. That’s not our family values and that’s not how I am raising her. If it works better for her to stay at home and they can afford it, then let that be their choice.

While we're at it, we should just drain the arctic oil reserves because my gas will be cheaper. We're so lucky to have that choice! It would be crazy not to take advantage of it simply to help other hypothetical humans in the future.

Oh sure! That’s exactly the same thing! If you want to work, then do so. My own mother would never have wanted to SAH. I get it. But please, don’t use my daughter as your excuse.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I used to work a high paid investment banking job in NYC. My teen knows how much I struggled and missed him when he was a baby, how I tried to get home before he went to sleep and usually missed his bedtime. He knows that his dad has a demanding job and how I was always the one to drive him to school and activities. He knows I stayed home with his little brother and sister.

OMG how do you not get it? The few of us to whom this thread was actually directed are saying that one of the reasons we work is so that your kids -- all three of them -- don't have to struggle like you did. So that one spouse being in "a demanding job" doesn't mean missing bedtimes or that that same spouse can't drive their kid to school most days and be there for activities. The cycle perpetuated by women electing to be the spouse to SAH over 95% of the time is creating preconceived expectations for your daughter AND your sons all of them will have to conform to or battle against. Those who think they are fortunate to have "choice" and "autonomy" to make that decision are blind to the systemic reasons leading to that choice and of the effect of their choice on the whole.

And as an aside, to PP who said men are much more sympathetic and understanding as to why women choose to stay home, you need to think long and hard about the incentives at play.

You know what else makes things hard for women in the workforce? Repeated pregnancies and maternal leave. Regardless of whether the woman returns, that can perpetuate negative stereotypes about career women and force extra work on the coworkers left behind. Would you also suggest that because those are problematic for the workforce and how women are judged, we should avoid having second/third/fourth babies?

Look, whether male or female, we have to make reproductive and lifestyle decisions based on what works for our individual marriages and lives. If my third pregnancy negatively impacts my coworker, oh well. If my leaving to stay at home for a few years negatively impacts how women in my career are viewed, well oh well, yet again.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'll go. DH and I both come from generational wealth and have worked for approx. 20 years (we are 43 and 45). I will continue to work for a million reasons but the highlights are:
- Genuinely love my job (big 4 consulting; I like the subject matter, my clients, and the substantive work).
- Continuing to build nest egg for my kids and not being the generation that drops the ball. Although I recognize that family money got us to where we are today (paid for education), I'd be embarrassed to be living on what we inherited rather than what we earn.
- The biggest one: my daughters and, to a lesser extent, my young female colleagues. I am beyond disappointed by my friends who are smarter, better educated, and (formerly) higher earning than their husbands but who have chosen to SAH. I fight the gender battle every. single. day. at work and I don't think these women appreciate the larger repercussions of their decisions. They make hiring, retention, and promotion SO much harder for their daughters when they embody the stereotypes/expectations that I am always fighting against. At this point most of my friends are no longer working or have "mom" jobs (self-employed consultants, tutors, etc.), and maybe I am crazy but I hate that my young daughters are growing up in a world where they see that, where they unconsciously internalize it and what it may mean about them, and where in the workforce they will have to battle expectations not that different from what my mom fought in the 80s. That is insane to me, and it is really difficult for me to understand how my friends don't see that and what sort of example/precedent they are setting.
- I hate cooking, gardening, and cleaning, and having a job gives me an excuse to outsource them.
- Prestige. This is probably a DC/NY/SF-specific thing, but it makes me very proud to tell people my job. I especially love watching men who completely underestimate me, and saying something snappy to the (typically older) women who rudely check in all the time to see if I am still working. They are ALL expecting that at some point I'm going to cave and join my friends, which I guess gets back to the point above about feeling like those of us working are trying to carry the mantle for our daughters.

I get that in a Barbie world, it would be liberating for women to have the choice whether to remain in or leave the workforce. But men aren't doing it; so until they are, all the women doing it -- even those who feel like they have "earned it" or like it is temporary or for their kids -- disappoint me. And don't get me started on the women who are staying at home to raise the next female CEO/president -- unless they are idiots, they are lying to themselves if they don't see that this is a self-perpetuating cycle.

Lol. You’re working so…your daughters and her friends might not internalize that they too can make choice to stay at home? How about recognizing the autonomy of your fellow women to make the best choices for her and for her family? I hate when feminism gets twisted into the morality of mandatory paid employment. Gross.

Until men start becoming a SAHD, it’s not the choice and autonomy you say it is.

It absolutely is a choice if both spouses in the marriage can make the finances work, and yes, I’ve had close friends who are SAHDs. It’s unusual but they exist. Where have you been??

Nothing you said contradicts what I said. Yes I know SAHDs. My husband was one when our kids were younger. That means I was (and am) the breadwinner and I worked with plenty of resentful dudes who absolutely did not think they had the same choices as their wives.

You wrote “until men start becoming a SAHD.” That’s been happening for well over a decade now. How does that not contradict you? People make different choices. Might not be one you would make, but don’t discount the ability of others to weigh the pros and cons and make those calls for themselves in a perfectly educated and competent way.

You can find exceptions to everything. You said it yourself SAHDs are rare. So rare that it says that men don’t have meaningful choice. (Maybe you didn’t read when you said that my husband was a SAHD?) Maybe you think because we can each identify a few that means men have meaningful choice? I disagree with that.

That’s not at all what “rare” implies. Men and women are different and make different choices. We see that in choices of majors/careers, and we see that in lifestyle decisions as well.

They make different choices, in part, because society and families expect that. Not true free choice.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

You have sophomoric understanding of economics and history with respect to the workforce and inflation and psychology for that matter.

Well thank goodness there are experts among us... I thought this was an opinion site. What I know is that there has been a cultural shift during my lifetime, completing devaluing the work I did for a decade as a SAHM. Most friends say they cannot afford NOT to work, and many people wish they could stay at home longer with young children. Why shouldn' they have that choice? It is nice to have a job again so people don't just write me off...and so my kids see they have choices & options. But it is going to be on my terms if we don't need the income. Some of the PP are using themselves & their kids as martyrs to pave a path forward that features women being "successful" in what they consider "high-powered" jobs -- male-dominated industries that operate according to all the old rules. That's what I think feminism has done. And that would be fine if we were DINKS. Enjoy that grind if you like it, but don't be a martyr on my girls' account. I want them to know it is perfectly OK to opt out of the paid workforce to care for others, if that works best family-wise, and then step back in as they see fit. This craziness where everyone works FT b/c of their high earning potential and everything kid-related is hired out? Not something I want to model for my kiddos.

+1. All of this

Well said. I’m not raising my daughter to feel forced into maintaining employment if she doesn’t have to, simply for other hypothetical females. That’s not our family values and that’s not how I am raising her. If it works better for her to stay at home and they can afford it, then let that be their choice.
Another one who just does not get it. How do you think girls and women have ended up having a "choice"? You think that this choice just magically appeared one day in history because a bunch of dads decided, hey, girls ought to have the same educational opportunities as boys? You think that things like paid parental leave happened because some fairy magically changed company policies? What about company health insurance that covers women's birth control? You think that this benefit just typed itself up?
And if you believe that these rights that women fought for and continue to fight for are permanent and that you have benefitted from and that you assume that your daughter will inherit, think again. Look at what's happening to our country with regard to reproductive rights. This is not some slippery slope argument or thought experiment. The rights of girls and women in this country are diminishing as we speak. If women ran half of the Fortune 500 companies and held most of the wealth in this country, none of these rights would be taken away from us.
It is more imperative than ever that women who have the ability, talent, money, and education to hold positions of power do so. And cooking hot meals for your man, volunteering to run the bake sale for the PSA, and making sure you have the right interior decorator all the while relying on your man to support you into old age, frankly, these activities can be done in addition to your career.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I used to work a high paid investment banking job in NYC. My teen knows how much I struggled and missed him when he was a baby, how I tried to get home before he went to sleep and usually missed his bedtime. He knows that his dad has a demanding job and how I was always the one to drive him to school and activities. He knows I stayed home with his little brother and sister.

OMG how do you not get it? The few of us to whom this thread was actually directed are saying that one of the reasons we work is so that your kids -- all three of them -- don't have to struggle like you did. So that one spouse being in "a demanding job" doesn't mean missing bedtimes or that that same spouse can't drive their kid to school most days and be there for activities. The cycle perpetuated by women electing to be the spouse to SAH over 95% of the time is creating preconceived expectations for your daughter AND your sons all of them will have to conform to or battle against. Those who think they are fortunate to have "choice" and "autonomy" to make that decision are blind to the systemic reasons leading to that choice and of the effect of their choice on the whole.

And as an aside, to PP who said men are much more sympathetic and understanding as to why women choose to stay home, you need to think long and hard about the incentives at play.

You know what else makes things hard for women in the workforce? Repeated pregnancies and maternal leave. Regardless of whether the woman returns, that can perpetuate negative stereotypes about career women and force extra work on the coworkers left behind. Would you also suggest that because those are problematic for the workforce and how women are judged, we should avoid having second/third/fourth babies?

Look, whether male or female, we have to make reproductive and lifestyle decisions based on what works for our individual marriages and lives. If my third pregnancy negatively impacts my coworker, oh well. If my leaving to stay at home for a few years negatively impacts how women in my career are viewed, well oh well, yet again.

You should tell that to your daughter and daughter-in-law right after they have their first child.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'll go. DH and I both come from generational wealth and have worked for approx. 20 years (we are 43 and 45). I will continue to work for a million reasons but the highlights are:
- Genuinely love my job (big 4 consulting; I like the subject matter, my clients, and the substantive work).
- Continuing to build nest egg for my kids and not being the generation that drops the ball. Although I recognize that family money got us to where we are today (paid for education), I'd be embarrassed to be living on what we inherited rather than what we earn.
- The biggest one: my daughters and, to a lesser extent, my young female colleagues. I am beyond disappointed by my friends who are smarter, better educated, and (formerly) higher earning than their husbands but who have chosen to SAH. I fight the gender battle every. single. day. at work and I don't think these women appreciate the larger repercussions of their decisions. They make hiring, retention, and promotion SO much harder for their daughters when they embody the stereotypes/expectations that I am always fighting against. At this point most of my friends are no longer working or have "mom" jobs (self-employed consultants, tutors, etc.), and maybe I am crazy but I hate that my young daughters are growing up in a world where they see that, where they unconsciously internalize it and what it may mean about them, and where in the workforce they will have to battle expectations not that different from what my mom fought in the 80s. That is insane to me, and it is really difficult for me to understand how my friends don't see that and what sort of example/precedent they are setting.
- I hate cooking, gardening, and cleaning, and having a job gives me an excuse to outsource them.
- Prestige. This is probably a DC/NY/SF-specific thing, but it makes me very proud to tell people my job. I especially love watching men who completely underestimate me, and saying something snappy to the (typically older) women who rudely check in all the time to see if I am still working. They are ALL expecting that at some point I'm going to cave and join my friends, which I guess gets back to the point above about feeling like those of us working are trying to carry the mantle for our daughters.

I get that in a Barbie world, it would be liberating for women to have the choice whether to remain in or leave the workforce. But men aren't doing it; so until they are, all the women doing it -- even those who feel like they have "earned it" or like it is temporary or for their kids -- disappoint me. And don't get me started on the women who are staying at home to raise the next female CEO/president -- unless they are idiots, they are lying to themselves if they don't see that this is a self-perpetuating cycle.

Lol. You’re working so…your daughters and her friends might not internalize that they too can make choice to stay at home? How about recognizing the autonomy of your fellow women to make the best choices for her and for her family? I hate when feminism gets twisted into the morality of mandatory paid employment. Gross.

Perhaps PP is extreme, but we have teenagers and you would be shocked when teenagers say their SAHM is "unemployed" or "doesn't have a job". I don't know if they realize their mom was some high-powered whatever, but it comes across as pretty demeaning.

Why would I have a problem with my teen saying I don’t have a job? How is that demeaning? It’s the truth. Other teens don’t need to hear about my prior career.

It's embarrassing once your kids are past elementary school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I used to work a high paid investment banking job in NYC. My teen knows how much I struggled and missed him when he was a baby, how I tried to get home before he went to sleep and usually missed his bedtime. He knows that his dad has a demanding job and how I was always the one to drive him to school and activities. He knows I stayed home with his little brother and sister.

OMG how do you not get it? The few of us to whom this thread was actually directed are saying that one of the reasons we work is so that your kids -- all three of them -- don't have to struggle like you did. So that one spouse being in "a demanding job" doesn't mean missing bedtimes or that that same spouse can't drive their kid to school most days and be there for activities. The cycle perpetuated by women electing to be the spouse to SAH over 95% of the time is creating preconceived expectations for your daughter AND your sons all of them will have to conform to or battle against. Those who think they are fortunate to have "choice" and "autonomy" to make that decision are blind to the systemic reasons leading to that choice and of the effect of their choice on the whole.

And as an aside, to PP who said men are much more sympathetic and understanding as to why women choose to stay home, you need to think long and hard about the incentives at play.

You know what else makes things hard for women in the workforce? Repeated pregnancies and maternal leave. Regardless of whether the woman returns, that can perpetuate negative stereotypes about career women and force extra work on the coworkers left behind. Would you also suggest that because those are problematic for the workforce and how women are judged, we should avoid having second/third/fourth babies?

Look, whether male or female, we have to make reproductive and lifestyle decisions based on what works for our individual marriages and lives. If my third pregnancy negatively impacts my coworker, oh well. If my leaving to stay at home for a few years negatively impacts how women in my career are viewed, well oh well, yet again.

You know who can actually improve workplace conditions so moms can re-enter the workforce after taking care of their babies? Other women who stayed in the workforce. Workplace policies for working moms don't improve if all moms decide to permanently leave the workforce.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'll go. DH and I both come from generational wealth and have worked for approx. 20 years (we are 43 and 45). I will continue to work for a million reasons but the highlights are:
- Genuinely love my job (big 4 consulting; I like the subject matter, my clients, and the substantive work).
- Continuing to build nest egg for my kids and not being the generation that drops the ball. Although I recognize that family money got us to where we are today (paid for education), I'd be embarrassed to be living on what we inherited rather than what we earn.
- The biggest one: my daughters and, to a lesser extent, my young female colleagues. I am beyond disappointed by my friends who are smarter, better educated, and (formerly) higher earning than their husbands but who have chosen to SAH. I fight the gender battle every. single. day. at work and I don't think these women appreciate the larger repercussions of their decisions. They make hiring, retention, and promotion SO much harder for their daughters when they embody the stereotypes/expectations that I am always fighting against. At this point most of my friends are no longer working or have "mom" jobs (self-employed consultants, tutors, etc.), and maybe I am crazy but I hate that my young daughters are growing up in a world where they see that, where they unconsciously internalize it and what it may mean about them, and where in the workforce they will have to battle expectations not that different from what my mom fought in the 80s. That is insane to me, and it is really difficult for me to understand how my friends don't see that and what sort of example/precedent they are setting.
- I hate cooking, gardening, and cleaning, and having a job gives me an excuse to outsource them.
- Prestige. This is probably a DC/NY/SF-specific thing, but it makes me very proud to tell people my job. I especially love watching men who completely underestimate me, and saying something snappy to the (typically older) women who rudely check in all the time to see if I am still working. They are ALL expecting that at some point I'm going to cave and join my friends, which I guess gets back to the point above about feeling like those of us working are trying to carry the mantle for our daughters.

I get that in a Barbie world, it would be liberating for women to have the choice whether to remain in or leave the workforce. But men aren't doing it; so until they are, all the women doing it -- even those who feel like they have "earned it" or like it is temporary or for their kids -- disappoint me. And don't get me started on the women who are staying at home to raise the next female CEO/president -- unless they are idiots, they are lying to themselves if they don't see that this is a self-perpetuating cycle.

Lol. You’re working so…your daughters and her friends might not internalize that they too can make choice to stay at home? How about recognizing the autonomy of your fellow women to make the best choices for her and for her family? I hate when feminism gets twisted into the morality of mandatory paid employment. Gross.

Perhaps PP is extreme, but we have teenagers and you would be shocked when teenagers say their SAHM is "unemployed" or "doesn't have a job". I don't know if they realize their mom was some high-powered whatever, but it comes across as pretty demeaning.

Why would I have a problem with my teen saying I don’t have a job? How is that demeaning? It’s the truth. Other teens don’t need to hear about my prior career.

Great...I hope you are also fine if your DH describes you as "unemployed" to his friends as well. No problem, right? It's the truth, right?

BTW, I assume you make casual conversation with your teen and their friends, no? This isn't being said to other teens, it's said to everyone.

I used to work a high paid investment banking job in NYC. My teen knows how much I struggled and missed him when he was a baby, how I tried to get home before he went to sleep and usually missed his bedtime. He knows that his dad has a demanding job and how I was always the one to drive him to school and activities. He knows I stayed home with his little brother and sister.

This is my point. I doubt when your kid is asked about you, that he says you are unemployed. He probably says my mom used to be a Badass banker, but she minted $$$s and decided to stay home with us.

I guess I will spell it out for the the PP. If your teen describes you as unemployed to their friend or friend's parents...they think you are a loser. Sorry, that is the truth. They aren't just stating a factual accuracy (BTW, unemployed really is a term to describe someone who currently does not have a job, but is actively seeking a job and as of yet can't land one).

[Anonymous]

Is my area/circle of acquaintances/neighborhood the only one where being a sahm is very rare? I can think of 2 true sahms. Posting here it feels like it might be flipped in other areas?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My sole earner husband mostly works from home and is around and available as much as any working parent. The absentee-dad story is a myth that working moms tell. He will be retiring at 55.

How can he be available if he is working? The work from home people are not working in fact.

I said he is as available as any working parent. He’s done before dinner every night and doesn’t work weekends. He can flex during the day if needs to go to a performance or meeting for the kids, etc. He has all the flexibility the working moms brag about. He coaches and does bedtimes. He’s not remotely absentee. I know that’s disappointing for some posters who want him to be checked out.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Is my area/circle of acquaintances/neighborhood the only one where being a sahm is very rare? I can think of 2 true sahms. Posting here it feels like it might be flipped in other areas?

Probably, not...only 25% of all households have a SAHP...and it is actually more prevalent in lower income households where you would lose money with both spouses working. In other words, the cost of child care is more than the after-tax earnings of one of the spouse.

Of course, maybe it is also flipped in super HNW areas too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
You know what else makes things hard for women in the workforce? Repeated pregnancies and maternal leave. Regardless of whether the woman returns, that can perpetuate negative stereotypes about career women and force extra work on the coworkers left behind. Would you also suggest that because those are problematic for the workforce and how women are judged, we should avoid having second/third/fourth babies?

Look, whether male or female, we have to make reproductive and lifestyle decisions based on what works for our individual marriages and lives. If my third pregnancy negatively impacts my coworker, oh well. If my leaving to stay at home for a few years negatively impacts how women in my career are viewed, well oh well, yet again.

Good lord, you are making our point. It takes two people to have a baby. Two people should be taking parental leave of identical duration, but that doesn't happen until women are holding the purse and are pervasive in the boardroom, in the C-suite, and in federal/state/local government. Some people would say it is a chicken-or-egg situation where the workforce needs to change before women are able to comfortably stay in droves, but as a PP said, history has shown us that it's not actually that complicated. It will take generations of us being uncomfortable and not making the "easy" choice. And those of us who have more than enough money to stay at home -- which is what this threat is about -- are also those uniquely positioned (either because of wealth, education, or position) to make significant headway.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I used to work a high paid investment banking job in NYC. My teen knows how much I struggled and missed him when he was a baby, how I tried to get home before he went to sleep and usually missed his bedtime. He knows that his dad has a demanding job and how I was always the one to drive him to school and activities. He knows I stayed home with his little brother and sister.

OMG how do you not get it? The few of us to whom this thread was actually directed are saying that one of the reasons we work is so that your kids -- all three of them -- don't have to struggle like you did. So that one spouse being in "a demanding job" doesn't mean missing bedtimes or that that same spouse can't drive their kid to school most days and be there for activities. The cycle perpetuated by women electing to be the spouse to SAH over 95% of the time is creating preconceived expectations for your daughter AND your sons all of them will have to conform to or battle against. Those who think they are fortunate to have "choice" and "autonomy" to make that decision are blind to the systemic reasons leading to that choice and of the effect of their choice on the whole.

And as an aside, to PP who said men are much more sympathetic and understanding as to why women choose to stay home, you need to think long and hard about the incentives at play.

You know what else makes things hard for women in the workforce? Repeated pregnancies and maternal leave. Regardless of whether the woman returns, that can perpetuate negative stereotypes about career women and force extra work on the coworkers left behind. Would you also suggest that because those are problematic for the workforce and how women are judged, we should avoid having second/third/fourth babies?

Look, whether male or female, we have to make reproductive and lifestyle decisions based on what works for our individual marriages and lives. If my third pregnancy negatively impacts my coworker, oh well. If my leaving to stay at home for a few years negatively impacts how women in my career are viewed, well oh well, yet again.

You know who can actually improve workplace conditions so moms can re-enter the workforce after taking care of their babies? Other women who stayed in the workforce. Workplace policies for working moms don't improve if all moms decide to permanently leave the workforce.

Actually, the people who can most directly improve workplace policies are those in the workplace, but these women are not. For example, I am currently a SAHM looking to get back to work. I have been at home for 5 years. Prior to that, I was an attorney for 15.

I just interviewed for an in-house position that turned out to be fully on-site with an expectation that it is “more than a 9-5 job.” Most of the people in the legal department are women (general counsel, my would be direct boss, other colleagues). I turned down that job because I would not see my kids during the week if I didn’t. So from my perspective it seems the women in the workplace are perpetuating the work around the clock lifestyle.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Good lord, you are making our point. It takes two people to have a baby. Two people should be taking parental leave of identical duration, but that doesn't happen until women are holding the purse and are pervasive in the boardroom, in the C-suite, and in federal/state/local government. Some people would say it is a chicken-or-egg situation where the workforce needs to change before women are able to comfortably stay in droves, but as a PP said, history has shown us that it's not actually that complicated. It will take generations of us being uncomfortable and not making the "easy" choice. And those of us who have more than enough money to stay at home -- which is what this threat is about -- are also those uniquely positioned (either because of wealth, education, or position) to make significant headway.

Misspoke: it takes two people to make a baby, and I get the nuances there re single parents. But the point stands for married and single parents alike -- all benefit from women staying and becoming leaders in the workplace.