New TJ Lawsuit Filed 3/10/21 by Pacific Legal Foundation

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Assuming arguendo plaintiffs “win” in district court, the Fourth Circuit is locked down liberal. So it would be reversed. Gets to Supreme Court. 5-4 Fourth Circuit upheld. FCPS wins. Long game.

If that happens, then that would be institutionalizing racism, and we would literally be confirming that we are now a socialist country.

With the amount of actual racism that Asians face in this country, you'd think they would be able to interpret what is and is not racism. The removal of a standardized exam as a metric is antiracist.

Their reason for doing it is to reduce the number of Asians.

This is true in the same sense that when colleges decided to start admitting women, they were doing it to reduce the number of men.

Which is to say, you can read it that way if you want, and there will definitely be an impact on the number of Asians because they are so profoundly dominant at the school currently - but really, that's not why they're doing it.

Remember once upon a time we as a society believed that women were less capable of doing well in higher education.

This is not a good analogy because they didn't lower standards to let women in. Women weren't allowed in on a systemic basis, and then policy changed to allow them in. Standards of excellence didn't change. In the TJ situation, there is no prohibition against any race. All races have an opportunity to gain entrance, on a race blind basis. In order to change the racial composition, standards are being lowered. That is the rub.

Barriers are being lowered and standards are being updated. What they are looking for is fundamentally changing, but you insist on referring to it as "lowered" because it suits your superiority narrative, as though being good at taking tests is somehow a worthwhile skill set.

do you honestly think that people who are admitted to engineering, medical, veterinary, and law schools, etc are just good at taking tests? You don't think high intelligence might be a factor?

Remember, the entire point of intensive test prep is to make students appear to be smarter than they are because exam performance has been historically used as a proxy for intelligence. Or to keep up with other students and families that are doing the same.

What a brilliant insight. And we are to assume that by eliminating objective assessments the hapless bureaucrats in FCPS, whose ineptitude has been abundantly on display for the past year, will magically acquire the skills to discern "real" merit?

You just want racial quotas, as the judge essentially noted at the recent hearing.

you're defining objective in a manner that you choose that benefits your argument. If you define objective as a measure inherent to the kid that can be used to evaluate them relative to other applicants, then the tests cease being objective if some kids can afford to prep (heavily and with success) and other either can't afford it or aren't aware that prepping for it even exists

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Assuming arguendo plaintiffs “win” in district court, the Fourth Circuit is locked down liberal. So it would be reversed. Gets to Supreme Court. 5-4 Fourth Circuit upheld. FCPS wins. Long game.

If that happens, then that would be institutionalizing racism, and we would literally be confirming that we are now a socialist country.

With the amount of actual racism that Asians face in this country, you'd think they would be able to interpret what is and is not racism. The removal of a standardized exam as a metric is antiracist.

Their reason for doing it is to reduce the number of Asians.

This is true in the same sense that when colleges decided to start admitting women, they were doing it to reduce the number of men.

Which is to say, you can read it that way if you want, and there will definitely be an impact on the number of Asians because they are so profoundly dominant at the school currently - but really, that's not why they're doing it.

Remember once upon a time we as a society believed that women were less capable of doing well in higher education.

This is not a good analogy because they didn't lower standards to let women in. Women weren't allowed in on a systemic basis, and then policy changed to allow them in. Standards of excellence didn't change. In the TJ situation, there is no prohibition against any race. All races have an opportunity to gain entrance, on a race blind basis. In order to change the racial composition, standards are being lowered. That is the rub.

Barriers are being lowered and standards are being updated. What they are looking for is fundamentally changing, but you insist on referring to it as "lowered" because it suits your superiority narrative, as though being good at taking tests is somehow a worthwhile skill set.

do you honestly think that people who are admitted to engineering, medical, veterinary, and law schools, etc are just good at taking tests? You don't think high intelligence might be a factor?

Remember, the entire point of intensive test prep is to make students appear to be smarter than they are because exam performance has been historically used as a proxy for intelligence. Or to keep up with other students and families that are doing the same.

What a brilliant insight. And we are to assume that by eliminating objective assessments the hapless bureaucrats in FCPS, whose ineptitude has been abundantly on display for the past year, will magically acquire the skills to discern "real" merit?

You just want racial quotas, as the judge essentially noted at the recent hearing.

The School Board is what it is, and I don't argue that. The Admissions Office knows what they're doing and will be absolutely fine this year.

Honestly, what I want to see more than anything else is an increase in applications across all demographics. It's inexcusable, given the population boom in Northern Virginia over the last 20 years, that we have 20% fewer applications to TJ now than we had back then.

We would have a significantly better TJ if we had a greater applicant pool.

bUt tJ iS tHe NuMbEr OnE sChOoL iN tHe CoUnTrY iTs PeRfEcT

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
Honestly, what I want to see more than anything else is an increase in applications across all demographics. It's inexcusable, given the population boom in Northern Virginia over the last 20 years, that we have 20% fewer applications to TJ now than we had back then.

We would have a significantly better TJ if we had a greater applicant pool.

Many kids who would succeed at TJ don't want to go. They'd rather be at the top of their base high school with less effort than it would take to be in the middle of the pack at TJ. Even if TJ were made easier, kids in the bottom half will receive worse college admission offers, and there's nothing FCPS can do to fix that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote: Even if TJ were made easier, kids in the bottom half will receive worse college admission offers, and there's nothing FCPS can do to fix that.

What is the evidence for this?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Honestly, what I want to see more than anything else is an increase in applications across all demographics. It's inexcusable, given the population boom in Northern Virginia over the last 20 years, that we have 20% fewer applications to TJ now than we had back then.

We would have a significantly better TJ if we had a greater applicant pool.

Many kids who would succeed at TJ don't want to go. They'd rather be at the top of their base high school with less effort than it would take to be in the middle of the pack at TJ. Even if TJ were made easier, kids in the bottom half will receive worse college admission offers, and there's nothing FCPS can do to fix that.

And many kids who are currently at TJ don't want to go. Those kids are not at issue here. Save the deflections.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Colleges do not have max quotas per school. It is one thing to have a minimum quota for each school then a number of at large seats. But they have made it where the schools with lots of Asians are limited to 5 spots, regardless of how many at large spots there are.

This is absolutely false. Schools like Carson and Longfellow will pick up the vast majority of the at-large spaces, of which there will be plenty because many Loudoun and PW (and even a couple of Fairfax) schools will not have enough qualified applicants to reach their school-based quotas.

OK. Loudoun implemented a max quota as well. It appears Fairfax is different.

There is indeed a max quota for how many students can attend TJ from Loudoun County, as there has always been. But that max quota does not apply to individual schools, as it would appear it does for AOS. That's kind of crappy for AOS, to be honest.

This would substantially reduce the Asian numbers in Loudoun for AOS. The minimum quota does as well, but not as much, especially with Asian parents gaming the system and moving to a school to get an automatic seat.

[Anonymous]

Do you have evidence of this claim?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: Even if TJ were made easier, kids in the bottom half will receive worse college admission offers, and there's nothing FCPS can do to fix that.

What is the evidence for this?

Colleges don't want too many kids from the same school and have some degree of school and regional caps. VA state schools have school based caps as well. It's pretty well established that being in the top 10% at your base high school will lead to better college acceptance than being in the bottom half of TJ.

FCPS has no say in how colleges choose to admit people.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Assuming arguendo plaintiffs “win” in district court, the Fourth Circuit is locked down liberal. So it would be reversed. Gets to Supreme Court. 5-4 Fourth Circuit upheld. FCPS wins. Long game.

If that happens, then that would be institutionalizing racism, and we would literally be confirming that we are now a socialist country.

With the amount of actual racism that Asians face in this country, you'd think they would be able to interpret what is and is not racism. The removal of a standardized exam as a metric is antiracist.

Their reason for doing it is to reduce the number of Asians.

This is true in the same sense that when colleges decided to start admitting women, they were doing it to reduce the number of men.

Which is to say, you can read it that way if you want, and there will definitely be an impact on the number of Asians because they are so profoundly dominant at the school currently - but really, that's not why they're doing it.

Remember once upon a time we as a society believed that women were less capable of doing well in higher education.

This is not a good analogy because they didn't lower standards to let women in. Women weren't allowed in on a systemic basis, and then policy changed to allow them in. Standards of excellence didn't change. In the TJ situation, there is no prohibition against any race. All races have an opportunity to gain entrance, on a race blind basis. In order to change the racial composition, standards are being lowered. That is the rub.

Barriers are being lowered and standards are being updated. What they are looking for is fundamentally changing, but you insist on referring to it as "lowered" because it suits your superiority narrative, as though being good at taking tests is somehow a worthwhile skill set.

do you honestly think that people who are admitted to engineering, medical, veterinary, and law schools, etc are just good at taking tests? You don't think high intelligence might be a factor?

Remember, the entire point of intensive test prep is to make students appear to be smarter than they are because exam performance has been historically used as a proxy for intelligence. Or to keep up with other students and families that are doing the same.

What a brilliant insight. And we are to assume that by eliminating objective assessments the hapless bureaucrats in FCPS, whose ineptitude has been abundantly on display for the past year, will magically acquire the skills to discern "real" merit?

You just want racial quotas, as the judge essentially noted at the recent hearing.

you're defining objective in a manner that you choose that benefits your argument. If you define objective as a measure inherent to the kid that can be used to evaluate them relative to other applicants, then the tests cease being objective if some kids can afford to prep (heavily and with success) and other either can't afford it or aren't aware that prepping for it even exists

Kids who want to make the effort can prepare. TJ shouldn't be dumped in their lap. And even if one accepted your POV, what FCPS has done would just substitute one flawed system with a worse one. All so they can reduce the number of Asian kids. Disgusting.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Honestly, what I want to see more than anything else is an increase in applications across all demographics. It's inexcusable, given the population boom in Northern Virginia over the last 20 years, that we have 20% fewer applications to TJ now than we had back then.

We would have a significantly better TJ if we had a greater applicant pool.

Many kids who would succeed at TJ don't want to go. They'd rather be at the top of their base high school with less effort than it would take to be in the middle of the pack at TJ. Even if TJ were made easier, kids in the bottom half will receive worse college admission offers, and there's nothing FCPS can do to fix that.

And many kids who are currently at TJ don't want to go. Those kids are not at issue here. Save the deflections.

It's not a deflection. You and FCPS are operating on the assumption that qualified kids are not applying to TJ because they're being shut out of the process or due to racism. I'm saying that many qualified kids have legitimate reasons for not wanting to attend TJ. If FCPS wants a broader, more representative TJ, then they need to figure out precisely why so many qualified kids don't want to go. It is legitimate for kids to prefer their base school for better college admissions, more time for sports/extracurriculars, no long bus ride, etc. That's not something FCPS can or even ought to fix.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Assuming arguendo plaintiffs “win” in district court, the Fourth Circuit is locked down liberal. So it would be reversed. Gets to Supreme Court. 5-4 Fourth Circuit upheld. FCPS wins. Long game.

If that happens, then that would be institutionalizing racism, and we would literally be confirming that we are now a socialist country.

With the amount of actual racism that Asians face in this country, you'd think they would be able to interpret what is and is not racism. The removal of a standardized exam as a metric is antiracist.

Their reason for doing it is to reduce the number of Asians.

This is true in the same sense that when colleges decided to start admitting women, they were doing it to reduce the number of men.

Which is to say, you can read it that way if you want, and there will definitely be an impact on the number of Asians because they are so profoundly dominant at the school currently - but really, that's not why they're doing it.

Remember once upon a time we as a society believed that women were less capable of doing well in higher education.

This is not a good analogy because they didn't lower standards to let women in. Women weren't allowed in on a systemic basis, and then policy changed to allow them in. Standards of excellence didn't change. In the TJ situation, there is no prohibition against any race. All races have an opportunity to gain entrance, on a race blind basis. In order to change the racial composition, standards are being lowered. That is the rub.

Barriers are being lowered and standards are being updated. What they are looking for is fundamentally changing, but you insist on referring to it as "lowered" because it suits your superiority narrative, as though being good at taking tests is somehow a worthwhile skill set.

do you honestly think that people who are admitted to engineering, medical, veterinary, and law schools, etc are just good at taking tests? You don't think high intelligence might be a factor?

Remember, the entire point of intensive test prep is to make students appear to be smarter than they are because exam performance has been historically used as a proxy for intelligence. Or to keep up with other students and families that are doing the same.

What a brilliant insight. And we are to assume that by eliminating objective assessments the hapless bureaucrats in FCPS, whose ineptitude has been abundantly on display for the past year, will magically acquire the skills to discern "real" merit?

You just want racial quotas, as the judge essentially noted at the recent hearing.

you're defining objective in a manner that you choose that benefits your argument. If you define objective as a measure inherent to the kid that can be used to evaluate them relative to other applicants, then the tests cease being objective if some kids can afford to prep (heavily and with success) and other either can't afford it or aren't aware that prepping for it even exists

Kids who want to make the effort can prepare. TJ shouldn't be dumped in their lap. And even if one accepted your POV, what FCPS has done would just substitute one flawed system with a worse one. All so they can reduce the number of Asian kids. Disgusting.

can a farms kid who wants to prepare do so as effictivly as a kid attending Curie?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Honestly, what I want to see more than anything else is an increase in applications across all demographics. It's inexcusable, given the population boom in Northern Virginia over the last 20 years, that we have 20% fewer applications to TJ now than we had back then.

We would have a significantly better TJ if we had a greater applicant pool.

Many kids who would succeed at TJ don't want to go. They'd rather be at the top of their base high school with less effort than it would take to be in the middle of the pack at TJ. Even if TJ were made easier, kids in the bottom half will receive worse college admission offers, and there's nothing FCPS can do to fix that.

And many kids who are currently at TJ don't want to go. Those kids are not at issue here. Save the deflections.

It's not a deflection. You and FCPS are operating on the assumption that qualified kids are not applying to TJ because they're being shut out of the process or due to racism. I'm saying that many qualified kids have legitimate reasons for not wanting to attend TJ. If FCPS wants a broader, more representative TJ, then they need to figure out precisely why so many qualified kids don't want to go. It is legitimate for kids to prefer their base school for better college admissions, more time for sports/extracurriculars, no long bus ride, etc. That's not something FCPS can or even ought to fix.

I mean, both things can be and are true:

1) There are students who are qualified who do not want to apply to TJ for perfectly legitimate reasons;

2) There are other students who absolutely would apply if they felt like they had any shot to get in/were encouraged to try

and even

3) There are still other students who don't apply because of misperceptions they have about the school and the experience of being a student there - or who are correct in their beliefs but wouldn't be if the demographic were different

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Assuming arguendo plaintiffs “win” in district court, the Fourth Circuit is locked down liberal. So it would be reversed. Gets to Supreme Court. 5-4 Fourth Circuit upheld. FCPS wins. Long game.

If that happens, then that would be institutionalizing racism, and we would literally be confirming that we are now a socialist country.

With the amount of actual racism that Asians face in this country, you'd think they would be able to interpret what is and is not racism. The removal of a standardized exam as a metric is antiracist.

Their reason for doing it is to reduce the number of Asians.

This is true in the same sense that when colleges decided to start admitting women, they were doing it to reduce the number of men.

Which is to say, you can read it that way if you want, and there will definitely be an impact on the number of Asians because they are so profoundly dominant at the school currently - but really, that's not why they're doing it.

Remember once upon a time we as a society believed that women were less capable of doing well in higher education.

This is not a good analogy because they didn't lower standards to let women in. Women weren't allowed in on a systemic basis, and then policy changed to allow them in. Standards of excellence didn't change. In the TJ situation, there is no prohibition against any race. All races have an opportunity to gain entrance, on a race blind basis. In order to change the racial composition, standards are being lowered. That is the rub.

Barriers are being lowered and standards are being updated. What they are looking for is fundamentally changing, but you insist on referring to it as "lowered" because it suits your superiority narrative, as though being good at taking tests is somehow a worthwhile skill set.

do you honestly think that people who are admitted to engineering, medical, veterinary, and law schools, etc are just good at taking tests? You don't think high intelligence might be a factor?

Remember, the entire point of intensive test prep is to make students appear to be smarter than they are because exam performance has been historically used as a proxy for intelligence. Or to keep up with other students and families that are doing the same.

What a brilliant insight. And we are to assume that by eliminating objective assessments the hapless bureaucrats in FCPS, whose ineptitude has been abundantly on display for the past year, will magically acquire the skills to discern "real" merit?

You just want racial quotas, as the judge essentially noted at the recent hearing.

you're defining objective in a manner that you choose that benefits your argument. If you define objective as a measure inherent to the kid that can be used to evaluate them relative to other applicants, then the tests cease being objective if some kids can afford to prep (heavily and with success) and other either can't afford it or aren't aware that prepping for it even exists

Kids who want to make the effort can prepare. TJ shouldn't be dumped in their lap. And even if one accepted your POV, what FCPS has done would just substitute one flawed system with a worse one. All so they can reduce the number of Asian kids. Disgusting.

can a farms kid who wants to prepare do so as effictivly as a kid attending Curie?

Of course not. I imagine your question is rhetorical in nature, but the answer is quite obviously no.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Assuming arguendo plaintiffs “win” in district court, the Fourth Circuit is locked down liberal. So it would be reversed. Gets to Supreme Court. 5-4 Fourth Circuit upheld. FCPS wins. Long game.

If that happens, then that would be institutionalizing racism, and we would literally be confirming that we are now a socialist country.

With the amount of actual racism that Asians face in this country, you'd think they would be able to interpret what is and is not racism. The removal of a standardized exam as a metric is antiracist.

Their reason for doing it is to reduce the number of Asians.

This is true in the same sense that when colleges decided to start admitting women, they were doing it to reduce the number of men.

Which is to say, you can read it that way if you want, and there will definitely be an impact on the number of Asians because they are so profoundly dominant at the school currently - but really, that's not why they're doing it.

Remember once upon a time we as a society believed that women were less capable of doing well in higher education.

This is not a good analogy because they didn't lower standards to let women in. Women weren't allowed in on a systemic basis, and then policy changed to allow them in. Standards of excellence didn't change. In the TJ situation, there is no prohibition against any race. All races have an opportunity to gain entrance, on a race blind basis. In order to change the racial composition, standards are being lowered. That is the rub.

Barriers are being lowered and standards are being updated. What they are looking for is fundamentally changing, but you insist on referring to it as "lowered" because it suits your superiority narrative, as though being good at taking tests is somehow a worthwhile skill set.

do you honestly think that people who are admitted to engineering, medical, veterinary, and law schools, etc are just good at taking tests? You don't think high intelligence might be a factor?

Remember, the entire point of intensive test prep is to make students appear to be smarter than they are because exam performance has been historically used as a proxy for intelligence. Or to keep up with other students and families that are doing the same.

What a brilliant insight. And we are to assume that by eliminating objective assessments the hapless bureaucrats in FCPS, whose ineptitude has been abundantly on display for the past year, will magically acquire the skills to discern "real" merit?

You just want racial quotas, as the judge essentially noted at the recent hearing.

you're defining objective in a manner that you choose that benefits your argument. If you define objective as a measure inherent to the kid that can be used to evaluate them relative to other applicants, then the tests cease being objective if some kids can afford to prep (heavily and with success) and other either can't afford it or aren't aware that prepping for it even exists

Kids who want to make the effort can prepare. TJ shouldn't be dumped in their lap. And even if one accepted your POV, what FCPS has done would just substitute one flawed system with a worse one. All so they can reduce the number of Asian kids. Disgusting.

can a farms kid who wants to prepare do so as effictivly as a kid attending Curie?

They had 28% of all of the kids who got into TJ in the Class of 2024. Every single one of them is of South Asian descent. Every. Single. One.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Assuming arguendo plaintiffs “win” in district court, the Fourth Circuit is locked down liberal. So it would be reversed. Gets to Supreme Court. 5-4 Fourth Circuit upheld. FCPS wins. Long game.

If that happens, then that would be institutionalizing racism, and we would literally be confirming that we are now a socialist country.

With the amount of actual racism that Asians face in this country, you'd think they would be able to interpret what is and is not racism. The removal of a standardized exam as a metric is antiracist.

Their reason for doing it is to reduce the number of Asians.

This is true in the same sense that when colleges decided to start admitting women, they were doing it to reduce the number of men.

Which is to say, you can read it that way if you want, and there will definitely be an impact on the number of Asians because they are so profoundly dominant at the school currently - but really, that's not why they're doing it.

Remember once upon a time we as a society believed that women were less capable of doing well in higher education.

This is not a good analogy because they didn't lower standards to let women in. Women weren't allowed in on a systemic basis, and then policy changed to allow them in. Standards of excellence didn't change. In the TJ situation, there is no prohibition against any race. All races have an opportunity to gain entrance, on a race blind basis. In order to change the racial composition, standards are being lowered. That is the rub.

Barriers are being lowered and standards are being updated. What they are looking for is fundamentally changing, but you insist on referring to it as "lowered" because it suits your superiority narrative, as though being good at taking tests is somehow a worthwhile skill set.

do you honestly think that people who are admitted to engineering, medical, veterinary, and law schools, etc are just good at taking tests? You don't think high intelligence might be a factor?

Remember, the entire point of intensive test prep is to make students appear to be smarter than they are because exam performance has been historically used as a proxy for intelligence. Or to keep up with other students and families that are doing the same.

What a brilliant insight. And we are to assume that by eliminating objective assessments the hapless bureaucrats in FCPS, whose ineptitude has been abundantly on display for the past year, will magically acquire the skills to discern "real" merit?

You just want racial quotas, as the judge essentially noted at the recent hearing.

you're defining objective in a manner that you choose that benefits your argument. If you define objective as a measure inherent to the kid that can be used to evaluate them relative to other applicants, then the tests cease being objective if some kids can afford to prep (heavily and with success) and other either can't afford it or aren't aware that prepping for it even exists

Kids who want to make the effort can prepare. TJ shouldn't be dumped in their lap. And even if one accepted your POV, what FCPS has done would just substitute one flawed system with a worse one. All so they can reduce the number of Asian kids. Disgusting.

can a farms kid who wants to prepare do so as effictivly as a kid attending Curie?

They had 28% of all of the kids who got into TJ in the Class of 2024. Every single one of them is of South Asian descent. Every. Single. One.

More Asian bashing. Shame on you.