Help me understand Republican women in their 30s and 40s

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I am an atheist feminist who is married to a Democrat man. I am independent but leaning more and more conservative these days. Issues where I lean more to the conservative side include: crime, immigration, women’s sex-based rights, ideological capture of elite institutions, education, and free speech.

It is worth recognizing that historically women trend more conservative and more religious than men. I have my own theories about why this has changed over the past several decades.

As much as democrats might believe, abortion in and of itself, does not outweigh all of the issues you listed in the minds of many women. Women who are in their late-30s and 40s aren't focused on abortion as much as they are those issues. On crime, they want to keep their families and communities safe. On women's sex-based rights, if they have girls they want them to have fairness in sports. On ideological capture of elite institutions, they want a good education for their kids that will allow them to get jobs to afford the same lifestyles they grew up with. On education and free speech, they want to have differing viewpoints available, even if they don't agree with them.

I would vote for the two of you PPs. Well said.

Except that the current crop of conservative GOP politicians won't actually help you with any of these things. They won't. They just use things like trans women to stoke your emotions.

And BTW, all women, regardless of political party, want to keep their families and communities safe. Every one. They all want good education for their kids and for their kids to find good jobs. All of them. Do you believe otherwise?

Republican women have delusions of superiority. And yet so unaware of reality. The GOP has been dismantling the education system for decades. They don't give a fig about your kids. Wake up.

Well, a whole bunch of women voters learned in the pandemic that the Democrats don’t give a fig about their kids, either, so that threat doesn’t really work for Democrats any more.

Does yelling at women that they are delusional in an effort to persuade them often work for you? It seems ineffective to me, but you do you.

The shut down of schools was the most anti-woman event of my lifetime. It set back an unbelievable number of careers for working moms.

All the more reason that women should be pushing harder for things like remote work, for affordable childcare and so on, along with better educational infrastructure. The only remote work and affordable childcare Republicans care about is you barefoot and pregnant in the kitchen obediently making your husband a sandwich.

Also, many teachers are working moms, too - Republicans hate admitting and acknowledging that early on, schools were one of the top places associated with spread in covid contact tracing data (especially since young kids are snot factories and touch everything) and that many teachers found themselves on the front lines of covid getting sick, with a number of teachers dying in the early days of the pandemic.

Teachers are essential workers, as essential as grocery store workers. Critical to the functioning of society.

We should have prioritized keeping elementary school aged kids in school. Remote learning was not developmentally appropriate. We shouldn't have demonizing parents for saying so. The teachers unions shouldn't have set teachers as adversarial against our young children.

Teachers, if you actually cared you should have been willing to die for my child.

It wasn't about YOUR child, it was about everyone's children AND the teachers.

And the proper answer would have been to keep the schools open.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I am an atheist feminist who is married to a Democrat man. I am independent but leaning more and more conservative these days. Issues where I lean more to the conservative side include: crime, immigration, women’s sex-based rights, ideological capture of elite institutions, education, and free speech.

It is worth recognizing that historically women trend more conservative and more religious than men. I have my own theories about why this has changed over the past several decades.

As much as democrats might believe, abortion in and of itself, does not outweigh all of the issues you listed in the minds of many women. Women who are in their late-30s and 40s aren't focused on abortion as much as they are those issues. On crime, they want to keep their families and communities safe. On women's sex-based rights, if they have girls they want them to have fairness in sports. On ideological capture of elite institutions, they want a good education for their kids that will allow them to get jobs to afford the same lifestyles they grew up with. On education and free speech, they want to have differing viewpoints available, even if they don't agree with them.

I would vote for the two of you PPs. Well said.

Except that the current crop of conservative GOP politicians won't actually help you with any of these things. They won't. They just use things like trans women to stoke your emotions.

And BTW, all women, regardless of political party, want to keep their families and communities safe. Every one. They all want good education for their kids and for their kids to find good jobs. All of them. Do you believe otherwise?

Republican women have delusions of superiority. And yet so unaware of reality. The GOP has been dismantling the education system for decades. They don't give a fig about your kids. Wake up.

Well, a whole bunch of women voters learned in the pandemic that the Democrats don’t give a fig about their kids, either, so that threat doesn’t really work for Democrats any more.

Does yelling at women that they are delusional in an effort to persuade them often work for you? It seems ineffective to me, but you do you.

The shut down of schools was the most anti-woman event of my lifetime. It set back an unbelievable number of careers for working moms.

All the more reason that women should be pushing harder for things like remote work, for affordable childcare and so on, along with better educational infrastructure. The only remote work and affordable childcare Republicans care about is you barefoot and pregnant in the kitchen obediently making your husband a sandwich.

Also, many teachers are working moms, too - Republicans hate admitting and acknowledging that early on, schools were one of the top places associated with spread in covid contact tracing data (especially since young kids are snot factories and touch everything) and that many teachers found themselves on the front lines of covid getting sick, with a number of teachers dying in the early days of the pandemic.

Teachers are essential workers, as essential as grocery store workers. Critical to the functioning of society.

We should have prioritized keeping elementary school aged kids in school. Remote learning was not developmentally appropriate. We shouldn't have demonizing parents for saying so. The teachers unions shouldn't have set teachers as adversarial against our young children.

Prioritize elementary school teaching how, exactly? What did Republicans propose to mitigate the spread? (and again, contact tracing data showed that schools were one of the places where the highest amount of spread was happening) - oh that's right, they did nothing. Or, worse than nothing - They spread falsehoods, claimed it was a hoax, claimed it was no worse than a cold, peddled phony cures and other nonsense that actually got even more people sick and worsened the pandemic.

I personally think the biggest problem with the pandemic wasn't so much how the schools failed kids as much as it was how it ripped away the veil of how parents were failing their kids. Many of the elementary school kids who were struggling were struggling because their parents are uninvolved and don't spend the needed quality time with them to read to them and other things that reinforce teaching.

This just shows you are a classist, ableist jerk, and should be kept far away from children.

I have multiple kids. Most did fine in the pandemic and remote learning because I could teach them, at great career cost, but I did it. The one who did not do fine has severe dyslexia, and had an IEP starting from first grade. I literally do not possess the training and skills to teach a child with severe dyslexia.

That child is okay now, but you know why? Because we can spend over $50k/year on private school tuition. We saw the writing on the wall early in the pandemic and saw that the public schools were going to fail disabled children. But how was a severely dyslexic child whose parents made less than $50k a year supposed to fare? I mean you obviously hate those kids so I know your answer, but the teachers unions and Democrats made it clear that they also hated those kids.

If there are any veils that have been ripped, it’s the veil showing how much Democrats truly despise women and vulnerable children. You are just one more example.

Remember that Republicans want to eliminate public schools and balkanize the school system into privately-run charters, which would have a whole incoherent and inconsistent patchwork of policies where it comes to what they would do in a pandemic. Also never mind that many privately-run charters are actually worse than the private schools. Also, Republicans don't support IDEA and funding services and support that special needs kids need. Republicans would also water down science-based curricula and instead promote things like abstinence-only sex ed (a proven fail), and would push history education full of distortion and revisionism that whitewashes slavery, rather than teaching true history. Republicans truly despise children and reality.

Absolute nonsense. My kid is in public and I’m a supportive PTA mom. Get outside your bubble.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Republican women in the age range you mentioned are by and large intelligent, articulate, understand the role of government and are carrying concealed weapons to ward off criminals and rapists.

They have conservative views, are willing to compromise on abortion, with laws similar to what exists in Europe. They want a secure border and support giving people a hand up without providing perpetual handouts.

In other words typical normal people that lean a little right of center who are never going to support the extreme views of the progressive wing no matter how loudly they shout.

You must be a smug idiot to think women can just ward off rapists.

Aren’t you one of the people that think it’s fine for imprisoned women to be cell mates with convicted rapists and male sex offenders? Don’t you believe the imprisoned women can just ward off the rapists who now identify as women and share their cells? Why would this be any different? At least the PP has a gun.

Time to stop drinking and get out of mommy's basement.

So yes, you believe women prisoners should be imprisoned with convicted male rapists who now identify as women. Got it.

Moron. No one wrote that.

Yep. Seems like some angry right winger is hard at work strawmanning and sock puppeting tonight.

We are still waiting for the PP who resorted to name-calling (“Moron.”) to come out and state that he fully opposes housing biological female prisoners with transwomen convicted of rape or sexual assault, and that he is opposed to the political party that is supporting that policy.

No one is answering you, because this is a non issue that you made up. Part of the "Dem platform"? Absolute BS.

It doesn't matter how many times you post utter BS, it remains utter BS.

Do you think it’s not happening? Or that democrats don’t support it? Because that’s just not true. It is happening, and it’s being pushed forward by democrats.

In NY: https://jimowles.org/news/hochul-wants-transgender-inmates-to-choose-where-theyre-housed-in-prisons

In NJ: https://www.npr.org/2021/06/29/1011181718/new-jersey-prisoners-will-be-placed-based-on-gender-identity-under-a-new-policy

In CA: https://apnews.com/article/us-news-laws-gavin-newsom-ca-state-wire-lifestyle-14cd954b06360d21349b77233318369e

In CT: https://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/389512-aclu-praises-connecticut-for-passing-most-protective-transgender/damp/?nxs-test=damp

From your first link,

"In 2014, the city created a special housing unit on Rikers Island for transgender inmates — those who were born male but identify as female."

Do you even know what a SHU is? It's SEPARATE housing. The trans prisoners are SEPARATED from the general population. That's very very different from your disingenuous narrative about how the libs want big hairy guys with swinging dicks loping freely through prisons raping female prisoners.

That was in 2014. In 2022 a woman in Rikers in NY was raped by a man in shared prison housing. It sounds like you agree that persons with male genitalia should not be housed with women in prison. I look forward to your opposition to these laws that require prison placement by gender identity instead of sex.

https://nypost.com/2024/01/24/metro/man-posing-as-trans-woman-raped-female-prisoner-at-rikers-lawsuit/amp/

Don't take that haughty "well I see that you agree" tone with me. On this thread, I have consistently said from the start that they should be housed separately. Trans prisoners may be the victimizers in shared prison environments are also far more likely to be the targets of abuse as well. And that also trashes your narrative about how Dems are all just these narrow minded "followers" who say you have to vote on the basis of your ovaries and who care about abortion and abortion only. Also, the prison issue does not in any way dissuade me from continuing to vote Dem, because there is a much bigger range of issues at stake.

You really need to start leaving your narrow and ill-informed viewpoints at the door because every attempt of your to push a narrative about what Dems and liberals are about seems to be a wild swing and a miss.

DP

I’m not the PP but here is what you and many other Democrats do not get about your constant dismissal of issues related to trans rights and the superseding of women’s rights. The constant response is exactly like what you wrote above, where the instances where women are victimized are picked apart as rarities, and presented in isolation. Oh, only a few women are raped in prison by transwomen. Oh, only a few of your daughters lose to trans girls in sports, and why do your daughters even have ambition in sport anyhow? They should be happy to let boys win; that’s “being kind” anyhow and sports ambition in girls is ugly. Oh, transwomen just want to pee and only a few male predators will take advantage of the new inability to remove creepy men from restrooms. Oh, the transwomen sending rape threats to JK Rowling and other women who stand up for women’s rights are rare and they are autistic anyhow so you should be kind and understand that their rape threats are acceptable because they struggle emotionally. Oh, you should be happy being referred to as an “front hole,” because that’s more inclusive. And so on, across individual events and issues.

You don’t understand that many, many women don’t view and won’t view all these events in isolation. They see this as a constellation, all these indicators of how Democrats value women and girls. You want to minimize into discrete events precisely so you can hide the overall picture. But women are too smart for that.

In the end, this is where we are: The Democrats see women as public emotional support animals for men and boys. The Republicans see women as private reproductive chattel. We are living Andrea Dworkin’s observation that conservative men see women as private property and liberal men see women as public property.

So, if both parties equally dehumanize women, women voters who choose to still participate in the political system are going to probably start voting for other reasons: education, immigration, crime, etc. They are also going to start disassociating with either party (which is already happening; women are increasingly registering as independent).

You can scream at them about how they are wrong and you are right, you can gaslight them and insult them, you can use racist and sexist words to describe women who pick a different path than you, but none of that will (a) work to change minds and (b) matter at all.

This isn’t a pie - women don’t lose rights because trans people are gaining rights.

When a woman is raped because a man declared his right to share a prison cell with her due to his gender identity, she has lost rights.

When a girl stands on the second step of a podium because a boy who said he is a girl is on the first step, she has lost rights.

When a woman is in a locker room and finds her naked self in front of a naked man and nothing can be done about it because he says he’s a woman, she has lost rights.

Both men and women are victims of prison rape. There's an underlying problem that goes beyond any gender identity issue.

Regarding locker rooms: Trans women are women. They would be more out of place in a men's locker room than in a women's locker room. Just like trans men are men. Do you really want them in the women's locker room?

Of the three points you make, I find the one regarding trans women participating in women's sports the most compelling. I don't know what a solution might be - create a separate division for trans women? But...it's sports. Most people I know will base their choice at the ballot box on something other than sports.

Just stop it with that garbage. It is such a silly statement. They aren’t women anymore than they are sea otters. Stop trying to gaslight America

Call it silly, but gender reassignment surgery is a thing. If a woman has the same parts as you do, what is the big deal?

Gender and sex are different things, and laws protecting women are based on their sex.

Just so we're on the same page, what determines someone's sex...their birth certificate?

Now you’re confused about gender vs sex?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I am an atheist feminist who is married to a Democrat man. I am independent but leaning more and more conservative these days. Issues where I lean more to the conservative side include: crime, immigration, women’s sex-based rights, ideological capture of elite institutions, education, and free speech.

It is worth recognizing that historically women trend more conservative and more religious than men. I have my own theories about why this has changed over the past several decades.

As much as democrats might believe, abortion in and of itself, does not outweigh all of the issues you listed in the minds of many women. Women who are in their late-30s and 40s aren't focused on abortion as much as they are those issues. On crime, they want to keep their families and communities safe. On women's sex-based rights, if they have girls they want them to have fairness in sports. On ideological capture of elite institutions, they want a good education for their kids that will allow them to get jobs to afford the same lifestyles they grew up with. On education and free speech, they want to have differing viewpoints available, even if they don't agree with them.

I would vote for the two of you PPs. Well said.

Except that the current crop of conservative GOP politicians won't actually help you with any of these things. They won't. They just use things like trans women to stoke your emotions.

And BTW, all women, regardless of political party, want to keep their families and communities safe. Every one. They all want good education for their kids and for their kids to find good jobs. All of them. Do you believe otherwise?

Republican women have delusions of superiority. And yet so unaware of reality. The GOP has been dismantling the education system for decades. They don't give a fig about your kids. Wake up.

Well, a whole bunch of women voters learned in the pandemic that the Democrats don’t give a fig about their kids, either, so that threat doesn’t really work for Democrats any more.

Does yelling at women that they are delusional in an effort to persuade them often work for you? It seems ineffective to me, but you do you.

The shut down of schools was the most anti-woman event of my lifetime. It set back an unbelievable number of careers for working moms.

All the more reason that women should be pushing harder for things like remote work, for affordable childcare and so on, along with better educational infrastructure. The only remote work and affordable childcare Republicans care about is you barefoot and pregnant in the kitchen obediently making your husband a sandwich.

Also, many teachers are working moms, too - Republicans hate admitting and acknowledging that early on, schools were one of the top places associated with spread in covid contact tracing data (especially since young kids are snot factories and touch everything) and that many teachers found themselves on the front lines of covid getting sick, with a number of teachers dying in the early days of the pandemic.

Teachers are essential workers, as essential as grocery store workers. Critical to the functioning of society.

We should have prioritized keeping elementary school aged kids in school. Remote learning was not developmentally appropriate. We shouldn't have demonizing parents for saying so. The teachers unions shouldn't have set teachers as adversarial against our young children.

Prioritize elementary school teaching how, exactly? What did Republicans propose to mitigate the spread? (and again, contact tracing data showed that schools were one of the places where the highest amount of spread was happening) - oh that's right, they did nothing. Or, worse than nothing - They spread falsehoods, claimed it was a hoax, claimed it was no worse than a cold, peddled phony cures and other nonsense that actually got even more people sick and worsened the pandemic.

I personally think the biggest problem with the pandemic wasn't so much how the schools failed kids as much as it was how it ripped away the veil of how parents were failing their kids. Many of the elementary school kids who were struggling were struggling because their parents are uninvolved and don't spend the needed quality time with them to read to them and other things that reinforce teaching.

Prioritize elementary schools the same way we prioritzed essential businesses like grocery stores. We didn't all starve to death during the pandemic. Grocery store staff worked.

Teachers of young children should have been in schools, performing the essential function of having children supervised and educated.

Instead we left families of young children completely on their own to cobble together whatever solution they could come up with, to shrill criticism when they didn't do a good job simultaneously teaching their kids while working their day jobs. People were even criticized for putting together the creative idea of pods because it wasn't "equitable" or isolated enough.

Complete failure by our public school system.

You have some kind of memory block. At every place that tried to reopen schools too soon the teachers got Covid, it spread among staff and students and parents and they had to return to virtual classes. It is just incredible how many people pretend that what happened did not happen and that there was no reason to isolate and take precautions.

Your memory is incorrect.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I am an atheist feminist who is married to a Democrat man. I am independent but leaning more and more conservative these days. Issues where I lean more to the conservative side include: crime, immigration, women’s sex-based rights, ideological capture of elite institutions, education, and free speech.

It is worth recognizing that historically women trend more conservative and more religious than men. I have my own theories about why this has changed over the past several decades.

As much as democrats might believe, abortion in and of itself, does not outweigh all of the issues you listed in the minds of many women. Women who are in their late-30s and 40s aren't focused on abortion as much as they are those issues. On crime, they want to keep their families and communities safe. On women's sex-based rights, if they have girls they want them to have fairness in sports. On ideological capture of elite institutions, they want a good education for their kids that will allow them to get jobs to afford the same lifestyles they grew up with. On education and free speech, they want to have differing viewpoints available, even if they don't agree with them.

I would vote for the two of you PPs. Well said.

Except that the current crop of conservative GOP politicians won't actually help you with any of these things. They won't. They just use things like trans women to stoke your emotions.

And BTW, all women, regardless of political party, want to keep their families and communities safe. Every one. They all want good education for their kids and for their kids to find good jobs. All of them. Do you believe otherwise?

Republican women have delusions of superiority. And yet so unaware of reality. The GOP has been dismantling the education system for decades. They don't give a fig about your kids. Wake up.

Well, a whole bunch of women voters learned in the pandemic that the Democrats don’t give a fig about their kids, either, so that threat doesn’t really work for Democrats any more.

Does yelling at women that they are delusional in an effort to persuade them often work for you? It seems ineffective to me, but you do you.

The shut down of schools was the most anti-woman event of my lifetime. It set back an unbelievable number of careers for working moms.

All the more reason that women should be pushing harder for things like remote work, for affordable childcare and so on, along with better educational infrastructure. The only remote work and affordable childcare Republicans care about is you barefoot and pregnant in the kitchen obediently making your husband a sandwich.

Also, many teachers are working moms, too - Republicans hate admitting and acknowledging that early on, schools were one of the top places associated with spread in covid contact tracing data (especially since young kids are snot factories and touch everything) and that many teachers found themselves on the front lines of covid getting sick, with a number of teachers dying in the early days of the pandemic.

Teachers are essential workers, as essential as grocery store workers. Critical to the functioning of society.

We should have prioritized keeping elementary school aged kids in school. Remote learning was not developmentally appropriate. We shouldn't have demonizing parents for saying so. The teachers unions shouldn't have set teachers as adversarial against our young children.

Teachers, if you actually cared you should have been willing to die for my child.

We knew from the early days of the pandemic that teachers were not at increased risk. It’s one of the reasons shutdowns in Europe were so limited. Kids were less likely to transmit and less likely to get serious illness. Covid is not the flu.

Even with the precautions that were put in place (and endlessly moaned about), at one point we were losing 5000/day in this country alone. It's amazing how people forget that fact just four short years later.

We knew, again, from the earliest states of the pandemic, that this was a virus that 99 percent people survived with the exception of those with specific risk factors - old age and obesity being the primary two.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:10-20% of pregnancies end in a known miscarriage. That’s not including all of the early unknown miscarriages.
That’s an uncomfortably high percentage of women facing denied healthcare in their red state due to draconian abortion bans. They want to force these laws on the entire nation with a federal ban.
That’s approximately a million women every year in the US at risk due to extreme laws enacted by “pro life” republicans.
How many years is a woman fertile? How many years does she play roulette with those laws?
I agree that men identifying as women should not be housed in prisons but the entire female prison population of the United States is approximately 90,000.
When I look at risk calculus I’m more immediately concerned for my daughter’s health.

This.
Having received a life-saving inmates. abortion (methotrexate to treat an ectopic pregnancy) and conceived one of my DDs via IVF, I'm all too keenly aware of how the red-states' reactions to the overturning of RvW threatens the health and life of women. To say nothing of the current risks to availability of contraception posed by some in the GOP. Birth control pills are used by millions of women to manage and treat symptoms of conditions like PCOS, endometriosis, etc. Threats to contraception impact more than just those trying to avoid pregnancy.
I consider those far more impactful to the vast majority of women than a few trans athletes or inmates. Why should my DDs have less of a right to health care and bodily autonomy than their grandmothers??

Unless you are a Republican, this is irrelevant. This post is about the viewpoints of GOP women of a certain age, not why you feel more impacted by abortion. If you feel that way, vote Dem as you seem to do.

I'm the PP. Born and raised Republican. Considered myself "conservative" based on fiscal beliefs and support of military, but have always been more "middle of the road" on social issues (and I believe I still am).
Started voting split ticket in 2016 because I couldn't bring myself to vote for Trump. I refuse to vote for any Republican who supported the overturning of RvW, so I now consider myself independent.
The GOP is losing women like me.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Republican women in the age range you mentioned are by and large intelligent, articulate, understand the role of government and are carrying concealed weapons to ward off criminals and rapists.

They have conservative views, are willing to compromise on abortion, with laws similar to what exists in Europe. They want a secure border and support giving people a hand up without providing perpetual handouts.

In other words typical normal people that lean a little right of center who are never going to support the extreme views of the progressive wing no matter how loudly they shout.

You must be a smug idiot to think women can just ward off rapists.

Aren’t you one of the people that think it’s fine for imprisoned women to be cell mates with convicted rapists and male sex offenders? Don’t you believe the imprisoned women can just ward off the rapists who now identify as women and share their cells? Why would this be any different? At least the PP has a gun.

Time to stop drinking and get out of mommy's basement.

So yes, you believe women prisoners should be imprisoned with convicted male rapists who now identify as women. Got it.

Moron. No one wrote that.

Yep. Seems like some angry right winger is hard at work strawmanning and sock puppeting tonight.

We are still waiting for the PP who resorted to name-calling (“Moron.”) to come out and state that he fully opposes housing biological female prisoners with transwomen convicted of rape or sexual assault, and that he is opposed to the political party that is supporting that policy.

No one is answering you, because this is a non issue that you made up. Part of the "Dem platform"? Absolute BS.

It doesn't matter how many times you post utter BS, it remains utter BS.

Do you think it’s not happening? Or that democrats don’t support it? Because that’s just not true. It is happening, and it’s being pushed forward by democrats.

In NY: https://jimowles.org/news/hochul-wants-transgender-inmates-to-choose-where-theyre-housed-in-prisons

In NJ: https://www.npr.org/2021/06/29/1011181718/new-jersey-prisoners-will-be-placed-based-on-gender-identity-under-a-new-policy

In CA: https://apnews.com/article/us-news-laws-gavin-newsom-ca-state-wire-lifestyle-14cd954b06360d21349b77233318369e

In CT: https://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/389512-aclu-praises-connecticut-for-passing-most-protective-transgender/damp/?nxs-test=damp

From your first link,

"In 2014, the city created a special housing unit on Rikers Island for transgender inmates — those who were born male but identify as female."

Do you even know what a SHU is? It's SEPARATE housing. The trans prisoners are SEPARATED from the general population. That's very very different from your disingenuous narrative about how the libs want big hairy guys with swinging dicks loping freely through prisons raping female prisoners.

That was in 2014. In 2022 a woman in Rikers in NY was raped by a man in shared prison housing. It sounds like you agree that persons with male genitalia should not be housed with women in prison. I look forward to your opposition to these laws that require prison placement by gender identity instead of sex.

https://nypost.com/2024/01/24/metro/man-posing-as-trans-woman-raped-female-prisoner-at-rikers-lawsuit/amp/

Don't take that haughty "well I see that you agree" tone with me. On this thread, I have consistently said from the start that they should be housed separately. Trans prisoners may be the victimizers in shared prison environments are also far more likely to be the targets of abuse as well. And that also trashes your narrative about how Dems are all just these narrow minded "followers" who say you have to vote on the basis of your ovaries and who care about abortion and abortion only. Also, the prison issue does not in any way dissuade me from continuing to vote Dem, because there is a much bigger range of issues at stake.

You really need to start leaving your narrow and ill-informed viewpoints at the door because every attempt of your to push a narrative about what Dems and liberals are about seems to be a wild swing and a miss.

DP

I’m not the PP but here is what you and many other Democrats do not get about your constant dismissal of issues related to trans rights and the superseding of women’s rights. The constant response is exactly like what you wrote above, where the instances where women are victimized are picked apart as rarities, and presented in isolation. Oh, only a few women are raped in prison by transwomen. Oh, only a few of your daughters lose to trans girls in sports, and why do your daughters even have ambition in sport anyhow? They should be happy to let boys win; that’s “being kind” anyhow and sports ambition in girls is ugly. Oh, transwomen just want to pee and only a few male predators will take advantage of the new inability to remove creepy men from restrooms. Oh, the transwomen sending rape threats to JK Rowling and other women who stand up for women’s rights are rare and they are autistic anyhow so you should be kind and understand that their rape threats are acceptable because they struggle emotionally. Oh, you should be happy being referred to as an “front hole,” because that’s more inclusive. And so on, across individual events and issues.

You don’t understand that many, many women don’t view and won’t view all these events in isolation. They see this as a constellation, all these indicators of how Democrats value women and girls. You want to minimize into discrete events precisely so you can hide the overall picture. But women are too smart for that.

In the end, this is where we are: The Democrats see women as public emotional support animals for men and boys. The Republicans see women as private reproductive chattel. We are living Andrea Dworkin’s observation that conservative men see women as private property and liberal men see women as public property.

So, if both parties equally dehumanize women, women voters who choose to still participate in the political system are going to probably start voting for other reasons: education, immigration, crime, etc. They are also going to start disassociating with either party (which is already happening; women are increasingly registering as independent).

You can scream at them about how they are wrong and you are right, you can gaslight them and insult them, you can use racist and sexist words to describe women who pick a different path than you, but none of that will (a) work to change minds and (b) matter at all.

This isn’t a pie - women don’t lose rights because trans people are gaining rights.

When a woman is raped because a man declared his right to share a prison cell with her due to his gender identity, she has lost rights.

When a girl stands on the second step of a podium because a boy who said he is a girl is on the first step, she has lost rights.

When a woman is in a locker room and finds her naked self in front of a naked man and nothing can be done about it because he says he’s a woman, she has lost rights.

Both men and women are victims of prison rape. There's an underlying problem that goes beyond any gender identity issue.

Regarding locker rooms: Trans women are women. They would be more out of place in a men's locker room than in a women's locker room. Just like trans men are men. Do you really want them in the women's locker room?

Of the three points you make, I find the one regarding trans women participating in women's sports the most compelling. I don't know what a solution might be - create a separate division for trans women? But...it's sports. Most people I know will base their choice at the ballot box on something other than sports.

Just stop it with that garbage. It is such a silly statement. They aren’t women anymore than they are sea otters. Stop trying to gaslight America

Call it silly, but gender reassignment surgery is a thing. If a woman has the same parts as you do, what is the big deal?

Gender and sex are different things, and laws protecting women are based on their sex.

Just so we're on the same page, what determines someone's sex...their birth certificate?

Now you’re confused about gender vs sex?

I'm just asking what you consider somebody's sex so we're not talking past each other.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:I am an atheist feminist who is married to a Democrat man. I am independent but leaning more and more conservative these days. Issues where I lean more to the conservative side include: crime, immigration, women’s sex-based rights, ideological capture of elite institutions, education, and free speech.

It is worth recognizing that historically women trend more conservative and more religious than men. I have my own theories about why this has changed over the past several decades.

As much as democrats might believe, abortion in and of itself, does not outweigh all of the issues you listed in the minds of many women. Women who are in their late-30s and 40s aren't focused on abortion as much as they are those issues. On crime, they want to keep their families and communities safe. On women's sex-based rights, if they have girls they want them to have fairness in sports. On ideological capture of elite institutions, they want a good education for their kids that will allow them to get jobs to afford the same lifestyles they grew up with. On education and free speech, they want to have differing viewpoints available, even if they don't agree with them.

I would vote for the two of you PPs. Well said.

Except that the current crop of conservative GOP politicians won't actually help you with any of these things. They won't. They just use things like trans women to stoke your emotions.

And BTW, all women, regardless of political party, want to keep their families and communities safe. Every one. They all want good education for their kids and for their kids to find good jobs. All of them. Do you believe otherwise?

Republican women have delusions of superiority. And yet so unaware of reality. The GOP has been dismantling the education system for decades. They don't give a fig about your kids. Wake up.

Well, a whole bunch of women voters learned in the pandemic that the Democrats don’t give a fig about their kids, either, so that threat doesn’t really work for Democrats any more.

Does yelling at women that they are delusional in an effort to persuade them often work for you? It seems ineffective to me, but you do you.

The shut down of schools was the most anti-woman event of my lifetime. It set back an unbelievable number of careers for working moms.

All the more reason that women should be pushing harder for things like remote work, for affordable childcare and so on, along with better educational infrastructure. The only remote work and affordable childcare Republicans care about is you barefoot and pregnant in the kitchen obediently making your husband a sandwich.

Also, many teachers are working moms, too - Republicans hate admitting and acknowledging that early on, schools were one of the top places associated with spread in covid contact tracing data (especially since young kids are snot factories and touch everything) and that many teachers found themselves on the front lines of covid getting sick, with a number of teachers dying in the early days of the pandemic.

Teachers are essential workers, as essential as grocery store workers. Critical to the functioning of society.

We should have prioritized keeping elementary school aged kids in school. Remote learning was not developmentally appropriate. We shouldn't have demonizing parents for saying so. The teachers unions shouldn't have set teachers as adversarial against our young children.

Teachers, if you actually cared you should have been willing to die for my child.

We knew from the early days of the pandemic that teachers were not at increased risk. It’s one of the reasons shutdowns in Europe were so limited. Kids were less likely to transmit and less likely to get serious illness. Covid is not the flu.

Even with the precautions that were put in place (and endlessly moaned about), at one point we were losing 5000/day in this country alone. It's amazing how people forget that fact just four short years later.

We knew, again, from the earliest states of the pandemic, that this was a virus that 99 percent people survived with the exception of those with specific risk factors - old age and obesity being the primary two.

And who cares about them, amirite????

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am an atheist feminist who is married to a Democrat man. I am independent but leaning more and more conservative these days. Issues where I lean more to the conservative side include: crime, immigration, women’s sex-based rights, ideological capture of elite institutions, education, and free speech.

It is worth recognizing that historically women trend more conservative and more religious than men. I have my own theories about why this has changed over the past several decades.

As much as democrats might believe, abortion in and of itself, does not outweigh all of the issues you listed in the minds of many women. Women who are in their late-30s and 40s aren't focused on abortion as much as they are those issues. On crime, they want to keep their families and communities safe. On women's sex-based rights, if they have girls they want them to have fairness in sports. On ideological capture of elite institutions, they want a good education for their kids that will allow them to get jobs to afford the same lifestyles they grew up with. On education and free speech, they want to have differing viewpoints available, even if they don't agree with them.

I would vote for the two of you PPs. Well said.

Except that the current crop of conservative GOP politicians won't actually help you with any of these things. They won't. They just use things like trans women to stoke your emotions.

And BTW, all women, regardless of political party, want to keep their families and communities safe. Every one. They all want good education for their kids and for their kids to find good jobs. All of them. Do you believe otherwise?

Republican women have delusions of superiority. And yet so unaware of reality. The GOP has been dismantling the education system for decades. They don't give a fig about your kids. Wake up.

Well, a whole bunch of women voters learned in the pandemic that the Democrats don’t give a fig about their kids, either, so that threat doesn’t really work for Democrats any more.

Does yelling at women that they are delusional in an effort to persuade them often work for you? It seems ineffective to me, but you do you.

The shut down of schools was the most anti-woman event of my lifetime. It set back an unbelievable number of careers for working moms.

All the more reason that women should be pushing harder for things like remote work, for affordable childcare and so on, along with better educational infrastructure. The only remote work and affordable childcare Republicans care about is you barefoot and pregnant in the kitchen obediently making your husband a sandwich.

Also, many teachers are working moms, too - Republicans hate admitting and acknowledging that early on, schools were one of the top places associated with spread in covid contact tracing data (especially since young kids are snot factories and touch everything) and that many teachers found themselves on the front lines of covid getting sick, with a number of teachers dying in the early days of the pandemic.

Teachers are essential workers, as essential as grocery store workers. Critical to the functioning of society.

We should have prioritized keeping elementary school aged kids in school. Remote learning was not developmentally appropriate. We shouldn't have demonizing parents for saying so. The teachers unions shouldn't have set teachers as adversarial against our young children.

Teachers, if you actually cared you should have been willing to die for my child.

We knew from the early days of the pandemic that teachers were not at increased risk. It’s one of the reasons shutdowns in Europe were so limited. Kids were less likely to transmit and less likely to get serious illness. Covid is not the flu.

Even with the precautions that were put in place (and endlessly moaned about), at one point we were losing 5000/day in this country alone. It's amazing how people forget that fact just four short years later.

We knew, again, from the earliest states of the pandemic, that this was a virus that 99 percent people survived with the exception of those with specific risk factors - old age and obesity being the primary two.

And who cares about them, amirite????

We had never had a government shutdown isolating the healthy and young and we know now it was pointless. The answer was always to get the vaccine to those who needed it - primarily the elderly - and isolate the most vulnerable. NOT to shut down schools and decrease medical access for screening and other health needs like cardiac and cancer.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Republican women in the age range you mentioned are by and large intelligent, articulate, understand the role of government and are carrying concealed weapons to ward off criminals and rapists.

They have conservative views, are willing to compromise on abortion, with laws similar to what exists in Europe. They want a secure border and support giving people a hand up without providing perpetual handouts.

In other words typical normal people that lean a little right of center who are never going to support the extreme views of the progressive wing no matter how loudly they shout.

You must be a smug idiot to think women can just ward off rapists.

Aren’t you one of the people that think it’s fine for imprisoned women to be cell mates with convicted rapists and male sex offenders? Don’t you believe the imprisoned women can just ward off the rapists who now identify as women and share their cells? Why would this be any different? At least the PP has a gun.

Time to stop drinking and get out of mommy's basement.

So yes, you believe women prisoners should be imprisoned with convicted male rapists who now identify as women. Got it.

Moron. No one wrote that.

Yep. Seems like some angry right winger is hard at work strawmanning and sock puppeting tonight.

We are still waiting for the PP who resorted to name-calling (“Moron.”) to come out and state that he fully opposes housing biological female prisoners with transwomen convicted of rape or sexual assault, and that he is opposed to the political party that is supporting that policy.

No one is answering you, because this is a non issue that you made up. Part of the "Dem platform"? Absolute BS.

It doesn't matter how many times you post utter BS, it remains utter BS.

Do you think it’s not happening? Or that democrats don’t support it? Because that’s just not true. It is happening, and it’s being pushed forward by democrats.

In NY: https://jimowles.org/news/hochul-wants-transgender-inmates-to-choose-where-theyre-housed-in-prisons

In NJ: https://www.npr.org/2021/06/29/1011181718/new-jersey-prisoners-will-be-placed-based-on-gender-identity-under-a-new-policy

In CA: https://apnews.com/article/us-news-laws-gavin-newsom-ca-state-wire-lifestyle-14cd954b06360d21349b77233318369e

In CT: https://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/389512-aclu-praises-connecticut-for-passing-most-protective-transgender/damp/?nxs-test=damp

From your first link,

"In 2014, the city created a special housing unit on Rikers Island for transgender inmates — those who were born male but identify as female."

Do you even know what a SHU is? It's SEPARATE housing. The trans prisoners are SEPARATED from the general population. That's very very different from your disingenuous narrative about how the libs want big hairy guys with swinging dicks loping freely through prisons raping female prisoners.

That was in 2014. In 2022 a woman in Rikers in NY was raped by a man in shared prison housing. It sounds like you agree that persons with male genitalia should not be housed with women in prison. I look forward to your opposition to these laws that require prison placement by gender identity instead of sex.

https://nypost.com/2024/01/24/metro/man-posing-as-trans-woman-raped-female-prisoner-at-rikers-lawsuit/amp/

Don't take that haughty "well I see that you agree" tone with me. On this thread, I have consistently said from the start that they should be housed separately. Trans prisoners may be the victimizers in shared prison environments are also far more likely to be the targets of abuse as well. And that also trashes your narrative about how Dems are all just these narrow minded "followers" who say you have to vote on the basis of your ovaries and who care about abortion and abortion only. Also, the prison issue does not in any way dissuade me from continuing to vote Dem, because there is a much bigger range of issues at stake.

You really need to start leaving your narrow and ill-informed viewpoints at the door because every attempt of your to push a narrative about what Dems and liberals are about seems to be a wild swing and a miss.

DP

I’m not the PP but here is what you and many other Democrats do not get about your constant dismissal of issues related to trans rights and the superseding of women’s rights. The constant response is exactly like what you wrote above, where the instances where women are victimized are picked apart as rarities, and presented in isolation. Oh, only a few women are raped in prison by transwomen. Oh, only a few of your daughters lose to trans girls in sports, and why do your daughters even have ambition in sport anyhow? They should be happy to let boys win; that’s “being kind” anyhow and sports ambition in girls is ugly. Oh, transwomen just want to pee and only a few male predators will take advantage of the new inability to remove creepy men from restrooms. Oh, the transwomen sending rape threats to JK Rowling and other women who stand up for women’s rights are rare and they are autistic anyhow so you should be kind and understand that their rape threats are acceptable because they struggle emotionally. Oh, you should be happy being referred to as an “front hole,” because that’s more inclusive. And so on, across individual events and issues.

You don’t understand that many, many women don’t view and won’t view all these events in isolation. They see this as a constellation, all these indicators of how Democrats value women and girls. You want to minimize into discrete events precisely so you can hide the overall picture. But women are too smart for that.

In the end, this is where we are: The Democrats see women as public emotional support animals for men and boys. The Republicans see women as private reproductive chattel. We are living Andrea Dworkin’s observation that conservative men see women as private property and liberal men see women as public property.

So, if both parties equally dehumanize women, women voters who choose to still participate in the political system are going to probably start voting for other reasons: education, immigration, crime, etc. They are also going to start disassociating with either party (which is already happening; women are increasingly registering as independent).

You can scream at them about how they are wrong and you are right, you can gaslight them and insult them, you can use racist and sexist words to describe women who pick a different path than you, but none of that will (a) work to change minds and (b) matter at all.

This isn’t a pie - women don’t lose rights because trans people are gaining rights.

When a woman is raped because a man declared his right to share a prison cell with her due to his gender identity, she has lost rights.

When a girl stands on the second step of a podium because a boy who said he is a girl is on the first step, she has lost rights.

When a woman is in a locker room and finds her naked self in front of a naked man and nothing can be done about it because he says he’s a woman, she has lost rights.

Both men and women are victims of prison rape. There's an underlying problem that goes beyond any gender identity issue.

Regarding locker rooms: Trans women are women. They would be more out of place in a men's locker room than in a women's locker room. Just like trans men are men. Do you really want them in the women's locker room?

Of the three points you make, I find the one regarding trans women participating in women's sports the most compelling. I don't know what a solution might be - create a separate division for trans women? But...it's sports. Most people I know will base their choice at the ballot box on something other than sports.

Just stop it with that garbage. It is such a silly statement. They aren’t women anymore than they are sea otters. Stop trying to gaslight America

Call it silly, but gender reassignment surgery is a thing. If a woman has the same parts as you do, what is the big deal?

Gender and sex are different things, and laws protecting women are based on their sex.

Just so we're on the same page, what determines someone's sex...their birth certificate?

Now you’re confused about gender vs sex?

Here in Virginia anyway, they are interchangeable: https://www.vdh.virginia.gov/vital-records/what-is-the-procedure-to-update-a-virginia-birth-certificate-after-a-person-has-undergone-gender-transition/

So a trans woman can show up to a locker room carrying a birth certificate indicating they are a woman.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Republican women in the age range you mentioned are by and large intelligent, articulate, understand the role of government and are carrying concealed weapons to ward off criminals and rapists.

They have conservative views, are willing to compromise on abortion, with laws similar to what exists in Europe. They want a secure border and support giving people a hand up without providing perpetual handouts.

In other words typical normal people that lean a little right of center who are never going to support the extreme views of the progressive wing no matter how loudly they shout.

You must be a smug idiot to think women can just ward off rapists.

Aren’t you one of the people that think it’s fine for imprisoned women to be cell mates with convicted rapists and male sex offenders? Don’t you believe the imprisoned women can just ward off the rapists who now identify as women and share their cells? Why would this be any different? At least the PP has a gun.

Time to stop drinking and get out of mommy's basement.

So yes, you believe women prisoners should be imprisoned with convicted male rapists who now identify as women. Got it.

Moron. No one wrote that.

Yep. Seems like some angry right winger is hard at work strawmanning and sock puppeting tonight.

We are still waiting for the PP who resorted to name-calling (“Moron.”) to come out and state that he fully opposes housing biological female prisoners with transwomen convicted of rape or sexual assault, and that he is opposed to the political party that is supporting that policy.

No one is answering you, because this is a non issue that you made up. Part of the "Dem platform"? Absolute BS.

It doesn't matter how many times you post utter BS, it remains utter BS.

Do you think it’s not happening? Or that democrats don’t support it? Because that’s just not true. It is happening, and it’s being pushed forward by democrats.

In NY: https://jimowles.org/news/hochul-wants-transgender-inmates-to-choose-where-theyre-housed-in-prisons

In NJ: https://www.npr.org/2021/06/29/1011181718/new-jersey-prisoners-will-be-placed-based-on-gender-identity-under-a-new-policy

In CA: https://apnews.com/article/us-news-laws-gavin-newsom-ca-state-wire-lifestyle-14cd954b06360d21349b77233318369e

In CT: https://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/389512-aclu-praises-connecticut-for-passing-most-protective-transgender/damp/?nxs-test=damp

From your first link,

"In 2014, the city created a special housing unit on Rikers Island for transgender inmates — those who were born male but identify as female."

Do you even know what a SHU is? It's SEPARATE housing. The trans prisoners are SEPARATED from the general population. That's very very different from your disingenuous narrative about how the libs want big hairy guys with swinging dicks loping freely through prisons raping female prisoners.

That was in 2014. In 2022 a woman in Rikers in NY was raped by a man in shared prison housing. It sounds like you agree that persons with male genitalia should not be housed with women in prison. I look forward to your opposition to these laws that require prison placement by gender identity instead of sex.

https://nypost.com/2024/01/24/metro/man-posing-as-trans-woman-raped-female-prisoner-at-rikers-lawsuit/amp/

Don't take that haughty "well I see that you agree" tone with me. On this thread, I have consistently said from the start that they should be housed separately. Trans prisoners may be the victimizers in shared prison environments are also far more likely to be the targets of abuse as well. And that also trashes your narrative about how Dems are all just these narrow minded "followers" who say you have to vote on the basis of your ovaries and who care about abortion and abortion only. Also, the prison issue does not in any way dissuade me from continuing to vote Dem, because there is a much bigger range of issues at stake.

You really need to start leaving your narrow and ill-informed viewpoints at the door because every attempt of your to push a narrative about what Dems and liberals are about seems to be a wild swing and a miss.

DP

I’m not the PP but here is what you and many other Democrats do not get about your constant dismissal of issues related to trans rights and the superseding of women’s rights. The constant response is exactly like what you wrote above, where the instances where women are victimized are picked apart as rarities, and presented in isolation. Oh, only a few women are raped in prison by transwomen. Oh, only a few of your daughters lose to trans girls in sports, and why do your daughters even have ambition in sport anyhow? They should be happy to let boys win; that’s “being kind” anyhow and sports ambition in girls is ugly. Oh, transwomen just want to pee and only a few male predators will take advantage of the new inability to remove creepy men from restrooms. Oh, the transwomen sending rape threats to JK Rowling and other women who stand up for women’s rights are rare and they are autistic anyhow so you should be kind and understand that their rape threats are acceptable because they struggle emotionally. Oh, you should be happy being referred to as an “front hole,” because that’s more inclusive. And so on, across individual events and issues.

You don’t understand that many, many women don’t view and won’t view all these events in isolation. They see this as a constellation, all these indicators of how Democrats value women and girls. You want to minimize into discrete events precisely so you can hide the overall picture. But women are too smart for that.

In the end, this is where we are: The Democrats see women as public emotional support animals for men and boys. The Republicans see women as private reproductive chattel. We are living Andrea Dworkin’s observation that conservative men see women as private property and liberal men see women as public property.

So, if both parties equally dehumanize women, women voters who choose to still participate in the political system are going to probably start voting for other reasons: education, immigration, crime, etc. They are also going to start disassociating with either party (which is already happening; women are increasingly registering as independent).

You can scream at them about how they are wrong and you are right, you can gaslight them and insult them, you can use racist and sexist words to describe women who pick a different path than you, but none of that will (a) work to change minds and (b) matter at all.

This isn’t a pie - women don’t lose rights because trans people are gaining rights.

When a woman is raped because a man declared his right to share a prison cell with her due to his gender identity, she has lost rights.

When a girl stands on the second step of a podium because a boy who said he is a girl is on the first step, she has lost rights.

When a woman is in a locker room and finds her naked self in front of a naked man and nothing can be done about it because he says he’s a woman, she has lost rights.

Both men and women are victims of prison rape. There's an underlying problem that goes beyond any gender identity issue.

Regarding locker rooms: Trans women are women. They would be more out of place in a men's locker room than in a women's locker room. Just like trans men are men. Do you really want them in the women's locker room?

Of the three points you make, I find the one regarding trans women participating in women's sports the most compelling. I don't know what a solution might be - create a separate division for trans women? But...it's sports. Most people I know will base their choice at the ballot box on something other than sports.

Just stop it with that garbage. It is such a silly statement. They aren’t women anymore than they are sea otters. Stop trying to gaslight America

Call it silly, but gender reassignment surgery is a thing. If a woman has the same parts as you do, what is the big deal?

Gender and sex are different things, and laws protecting women are based on their sex.

Just so we're on the same page, what determines someone's sex...their birth certificate?

Now you’re confused about gender vs sex?

Here in Virginia anyway, they are interchangeable: https://www.vdh.virginia.gov/vital-records/what-is-the-procedure-to-update-a-virginia-birth-certificate-after-a-person-has-undergone-gender-transition/

So a trans woman can show up to a locker room carrying a birth certificate indicating they are a woman.

So because the paperwork changed, sex did too? And now gender and sex are indistinguishable, is this the argument of the left?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:10-20% of pregnancies end in a known miscarriage. That’s not including all of the early unknown miscarriages.
That’s an uncomfortably high percentage of women facing denied healthcare in their red state due to draconian abortion bans. They want to force these laws on the entire nation with a federal ban.
That’s approximately a million women every year in the US at risk due to extreme laws enacted by “pro life” republicans.
How many years is a woman fertile? How many years does she play roulette with those laws?
I agree that men identifying as women should not be housed in prisons but the entire female prison population of the United States is approximately 90,000.
When I look at risk calculus I’m more immediately concerned for my daughter’s health.

This.
Having received a life-saving inmates. abortion (methotrexate to treat an ectopic pregnancy) and conceived one of my DDs via IVF, I'm all too keenly aware of how the red-states' reactions to the overturning of RvW threatens the health and life of women. To say nothing of the current risks to availability of contraception posed by some in the GOP. Birth control pills are used by millions of women to manage and treat symptoms of conditions like PCOS, endometriosis, etc. Threats to contraception impact more than just those trying to avoid pregnancy.
I consider those far more impactful to the vast majority of women than a few trans athletes or inmates. Why should my DDs have less of a right to health care and bodily autonomy than their grandmothers??

Unless you are a Republican, this is irrelevant. This post is about the viewpoints of GOP women of a certain age, not why you feel more impacted by abortion. If you feel that way, vote Dem as you seem to do.

I'm the PP. Born and raised Republican. Considered myself "conservative" based on fiscal beliefs and support of military, but have always been more "middle of the road" on social issues (and I believe I still am).
Started voting split ticket in 2016 because I couldn't bring myself to vote for Trump. I refuse to vote for any Republican who supported the overturning of RvW, so I now consider myself independent.
The GOP is losing women like me.

It is hard to understand why the GOP has invested so much into crushing reproductive rights. There seem to be a few posters on here in favor of this position, but for the majority, it's such an extremely unpopular and repulsive position to take. Why is the GOP willing to lose so many voters over this issue that they keep arguing is not really that important?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:10-20% of pregnancies end in a known miscarriage. That’s not including all of the early unknown miscarriages.
That’s an uncomfortably high percentage of women facing denied healthcare in their red state due to draconian abortion bans. They want to force these laws on the entire nation with a federal ban.
That’s approximately a million women every year in the US at risk due to extreme laws enacted by “pro life” republicans.
How many years is a woman fertile? How many years does she play roulette with those laws?
I agree that men identifying as women should not be housed in prisons but the entire female prison population of the United States is approximately 90,000.
When I look at risk calculus I’m more immediately concerned for my daughter’s health.

This.
Having received a life-saving inmates. abortion (methotrexate to treat an ectopic pregnancy) and conceived one of my DDs via IVF, I'm all too keenly aware of how the red-states' reactions to the overturning of RvW threatens the health and life of women. To say nothing of the current risks to availability of contraception posed by some in the GOP. Birth control pills are used by millions of women to manage and treat symptoms of conditions like PCOS, endometriosis, etc. Threats to contraception impact more than just those trying to avoid pregnancy.
I consider those far more impactful to the vast majority of women than a few trans athletes or inmates. Why should my DDs have less of a right to health care and bodily autonomy than their grandmothers??

Unless you are a Republican, this is irrelevant. This post is about the viewpoints of GOP women of a certain age, not why you feel more impacted by abortion. If you feel that way, vote Dem as you seem to do.

I'm the PP. Born and raised Republican. Considered myself "conservative" based on fiscal beliefs and support of military, but have always been more "middle of the road" on social issues (and I believe I still am).
Started voting split ticket in 2016 because I couldn't bring myself to vote for Trump. I refuse to vote for any Republican who supported the overturning of RvW, so I now consider myself independent.
The GOP is losing women like me.

It is hard to understand why the GOP has invested so much into crushing reproductive rights. There seem to be a few posters on here in favor of this position, but for the majority, it's such an extremely unpopular and repulsive position to take. Why is the GOP willing to lose so many voters over this issue that they keep arguing is not really that important?

Are you aware of what the number one issues are for voters right now? Hint, it’s not abortion. I think the more relevant question is why did Biden allow 1.3 million illegals in, in 2023 alone, given how many people list controlling the border as their number one issue?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:I am an atheist feminist who is married to a Democrat man. I am independent but leaning more and more conservative these days. Issues where I lean more to the conservative side include: crime, immigration, women’s sex-based rights, ideological capture of elite institutions, education, and free speech.

It is worth recognizing that historically women trend more conservative and more religious than men. I have my own theories about why this has changed over the past several decades.

As much as democrats might believe, abortion in and of itself, does not outweigh all of the issues you listed in the minds of many women. Women who are in their late-30s and 40s aren't focused on abortion as much as they are those issues. On crime, they want to keep their families and communities safe. On women's sex-based rights, if they have girls they want them to have fairness in sports. On ideological capture of elite institutions, they want a good education for their kids that will allow them to get jobs to afford the same lifestyles they grew up with. On education and free speech, they want to have differing viewpoints available, even if they don't agree with them.

I would vote for the two of you PPs. Well said.

Except that the current crop of conservative GOP politicians won't actually help you with any of these things. They won't. They just use things like trans women to stoke your emotions.

And BTW, all women, regardless of political party, want to keep their families and communities safe. Every one. They all want good education for their kids and for their kids to find good jobs. All of them. Do you believe otherwise?

Republican women have delusions of superiority. And yet so unaware of reality. The GOP has been dismantling the education system for decades. They don't give a fig about your kids. Wake up.

Well, a whole bunch of women voters learned in the pandemic that the Democrats don’t give a fig about their kids, either, so that threat doesn’t really work for Democrats any more.

Does yelling at women that they are delusional in an effort to persuade them often work for you? It seems ineffective to me, but you do you.

The shut down of schools was the most anti-woman event of my lifetime. It set back an unbelievable number of careers for working moms.

All the more reason that women should be pushing harder for things like remote work, for affordable childcare and so on, along with better educational infrastructure. The only remote work and affordable childcare Republicans care about is you barefoot and pregnant in the kitchen obediently making your husband a sandwich.

Also, many teachers are working moms, too - Republicans hate admitting and acknowledging that early on, schools were one of the top places associated with spread in covid contact tracing data (especially since young kids are snot factories and touch everything) and that many teachers found themselves on the front lines of covid getting sick, with a number of teachers dying in the early days of the pandemic.

Teachers are essential workers, as essential as grocery store workers. Critical to the functioning of society.

We should have prioritized keeping elementary school aged kids in school. Remote learning was not developmentally appropriate. We shouldn't have demonizing parents for saying so. The teachers unions shouldn't have set teachers as adversarial against our young children.

Teachers, if you actually cared you should have been willing to die for my child.

It wasn't about YOUR child, it was about everyone's children AND the teachers.

And the proper answer would have been to keep the schools open.

Some places did and then had to close them almost immediately because schools spread pandemics faster than anyplace except cruise ships and nursing homes. You must have slept through 2020 if you believe schools could have remained open.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:10-20% of pregnancies end in a known miscarriage. That’s not including all of the early unknown miscarriages.
That’s an uncomfortably high percentage of women facing denied healthcare in their red state due to draconian abortion bans. They want to force these laws on the entire nation with a federal ban.
That’s approximately a million women every year in the US at risk due to extreme laws enacted by “pro life” republicans.
How many years is a woman fertile? How many years does she play roulette with those laws?
I agree that men identifying as women should not be housed in prisons but the entire female prison population of the United States is approximately 90,000.
When I look at risk calculus I’m more immediately concerned for my daughter’s health.

This.
Having received a life-saving inmates. abortion (methotrexate to treat an ectopic pregnancy) and conceived one of my DDs via IVF, I'm all too keenly aware of how the red-states' reactions to the overturning of RvW threatens the health and life of women. To say nothing of the current risks to availability of contraception posed by some in the GOP. Birth control pills are used by millions of women to manage and treat symptoms of conditions like PCOS, endometriosis, etc. Threats to contraception impact more than just those trying to avoid pregnancy.
I consider those far more impactful to the vast majority of women than a few trans athletes or inmates. Why should my DDs have less of a right to health care and bodily autonomy than their grandmothers??

Unless you are a Republican, this is irrelevant. This post is about the viewpoints of GOP women of a certain age, not why you feel more impacted by abortion. If you feel that way, vote Dem as you seem to do.

I'm the PP. Born and raised Republican. Considered myself "conservative" based on fiscal beliefs and support of military, but have always been more "middle of the road" on social issues (and I believe I still am).
Started voting split ticket in 2016 because I couldn't bring myself to vote for Trump. I refuse to vote for any Republican who supported the overturning of RvW, so I now consider myself independent.
The GOP is losing women like me.

It is hard to understand why the GOP has invested so much into crushing reproductive rights. There seem to be a few posters on here in favor of this position, but for the majority, it's such an extremely unpopular and repulsive position to take. Why is the GOP willing to lose so many voters over this issue that they keep arguing is not really that important?

Are you aware of what the number one issues are for voters right now? Hint, it’s not abortion. I think the more relevant question is why did Biden allow 1.3 million illegals in, in 2023 alone, given how many people list controlling the border as their number one issue?

I am responding to the posters on here that saying it is a defining issue. In addition it has clearly resonated in every referendum election held since roe. The talking point that the voters don't care about it does not seem to match up with what is happening in the voting booth.