My kid is in a class with a chair thrower

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are 44 pages of fighting here, but the answer was in another thread about the “Quiet rooms.” Basically, school staff needs to be able to remove these kids so teaching can go on for the rest of the class. It would help the student in crisis to be removed and help the kids who have the right to learn in the classroom.

The ability of schools to take these kids out and go to a calm down room was removed because sometimes those rooms resulted in over punishment for some kids and a group of parents hated them and felt their child experienced abuse in them (Probably true in some cases).

I think those rooms are the solution still and the issues parents had with them need to be addressed rather than just taking all other kids out of the classroom. If a parent doesn’t want their kid in a quiet room, THEN the parent needs to pick the kid up and they can seek another placement. Having a quiet or calm down room is very important for kids with emotional regulation issues.

I think if you are a parent with a typical kid and don’t like what is happening currently with the class leaving, start advocating for the use of calm down rooms again.

No, forcibly restraining and secluding kids is not the solution. It doesn’t help long term.

Yes, taking emotionally out of control students out of the classroom to calm down does help. It also allows sped kids to process and regroup before being hit with the environmental stimuli of the classroom again.

It also helps the kids who are more typical to stay in the classroom and allows the teacher to remained focused on the lesson.

And no, at least in the school district where my kids go, they don’t have calm down rooms. IN MCPS where I taught years ago, the calm down rooms were also not allowed anymore. I believe there was a lawsuit and you couldn’t restrain or touch a kid anymore to have them leave.

Do you have data to support you? There is a LOT of research in favor of sensory spaces/calm down corners, and rooms. It doesn’t have to be a punishment, but it is necessary for these kids to leave if learning for all is to continue. I think the problem lies in the fact that people picture a “rubber room” and not a space where there are bubble lamps, platform covered tables, bean bags etc. Let the kid tear that apart, not the classroom.

If they’re letting them tear the room apart, then they’re doing it wrong. If you’re going to remove a child from a room, then someone needs to be with them to help them deal with their feelings.

My kid’s MCPS elementary school has resource rooms either attached to each classroom or available in each corridor where the special educators and paraeducators will occasionally lead kids that need some time. But they don’t lock them in there alone.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are 44 pages of fighting here, but the answer was in another thread about the “Quiet rooms.” Basically, school staff needs to be able to remove these kids so teaching can go on for the rest of the class. It would help the student in crisis to be removed and help the kids who have the right to learn in the classroom.

The ability of schools to take these kids out and go to a calm down room was removed because sometimes those rooms resulted in over punishment for some kids and a group of parents hated them and felt their child experienced abuse in them (Probably true in some cases).

I think those rooms are the solution still and the issues parents had with them need to be addressed rather than just taking all other kids out of the classroom. If a parent doesn’t want their kid in a quiet room, THEN the parent needs to pick the kid up and they can seek another placement. Having a quiet or calm down room is very important for kids with emotional regulation issues.

I think if you are a parent with a typical kid and don’t like what is happening currently with the class leaving, start advocating for the use of calm down rooms again.

No, forcibly restraining and secluding kids is not the solution. It doesn’t help long term.

Yes, taking emotionally out of control students out of the classroom to calm down does help. It also allows sped kids to process and regroup before being hit with the environmental stimuli of the classroom again.

It also helps the kids who are more typical to stay in the classroom and allows the teacher to remained focused on the lesson.

And no, at least in the school district where my kids go, they don’t have calm down rooms. IN MCPS where I taught years ago, the calm down rooms were also not allowed anymore. I believe there was a lawsuit and you couldn’t restrain or touch a kid anymore to have them leave.

Do you have data to support you? There is a LOT of research in favor of sensory spaces/calm down corners, and rooms. It doesn’t have to be a punishment, but it is necessary for these kids to leave if learning for all is to continue. I think the problem lies in the fact that people picture a “rubber room” and not a space where there are bubble lamps, platform covered tables, bean bags etc. Let the kid tear that apart, not the classroom.

If they’re letting them tear the room apart, then they’re doing it wrong. If you’re going to remove a child from a room, then someone needs to be with them to help them deal with their feelings.

My kid’s MCPS elementary school has resource rooms either attached to each classroom or available in each corridor where the special educators and paraeducators will occasionally lead kids that need some time. But they don’t lock them in there alone.

Agreed. There needs to be people in the room with the kid- probably the same people who removed the kid. Some kids melt down from the time the teacher sees the signal to when the team can come get the kid, so the kid may end up ranting in the room. But yes, there should still be someone in there. Resource rooms are great, but we can’t rebuild all the elementary schools to have attached resource rooms.
We COULD have teams of people ready to remove kids who are out of control and stay with them in calm down rooms.

Correct me if I am wrong but in both MCPS and FCPS this is not allowed for different reasons. (MCPS no removing kids, FCPS no calm down rooms). THAT is where people need to focus their energies. FIXING that problem, not blaming kids, parents, teachers and whatever else happened on this thread.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are 44 pages of fighting here, but the answer was in another thread about the “Quiet rooms.” Basically, school staff needs to be able to remove these kids so teaching can go on for the rest of the class. It would help the student in crisis to be removed and help the kids who have the right to learn in the classroom.

The ability of schools to take these kids out and go to a calm down room was removed because sometimes those rooms resulted in over punishment for some kids and a group of parents hated them and felt their child experienced abuse in them (Probably true in some cases).

I think those rooms are the solution still and the issues parents had with them need to be addressed rather than just taking all other kids out of the classroom. If a parent doesn’t want their kid in a quiet room, THEN the parent needs to pick the kid up and they can seek another placement. Having a quiet or calm down room is very important for kids with emotional regulation issues.

I think if you are a parent with a typical kid and don’t like what is happening currently with the class leaving, start advocating for the use of calm down rooms again.

No, forcibly restraining and secluding kids is not the solution. It doesn’t help long term.

Removing a dangerous child to a quiet room helps the other students who would otherwise be unsafe or have their education disrupted. But you have made it clear you don't care about them.

and you have made it clear you have no idea how to handle these issues. btw - quiet/seclusion rooms are most commonly used in self-contained programs, not general ed classrooms.

I haven't heard anything about how anyone should handle violent SN students. Can't restrain them. Can't punish them. Can't put them in self contained classes. Can't remove them from the classroom. Can't suspend or expel them. The only suggestion seems to be "total inclusion with no consequences or completely pay for my private school."

Right.

So, what is the solution then? What the hell is everyone else supposed to do while the kid throws chairs? Can anyone answer that?

Is everyone else just supposed to clear out? I guess the interruption to their day doesn't matter. What about the kid who is scared to go to school because Billy threw a chair yesterday?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:*you go private

You keep saying this but here’s the flaw with this logic: We are already losing too many teachers who don’t want to be abused. If all the regular kids leave too because of a few abusive classmates then you will be left with a place that NO parent would want to send their kids to. It doesn’t serve anyone’s interest to let things get to this point. There has to be more balance.

all the “regular kids” are not going to leave. because you are exaggerating what’s actually going on.

“According to the results of a Washington Teachers’ Union survey released in August, 30% of participating teachers said they had been assaulted by students. Forty-two percent of teachers surveyed said they had been slapped, punched or kicked.”

Uh no this is not an exaggeration, we are bleeding teachers in every county. Have you had your head in the sand? Why would anyone stay in a job where they are assaulted by kids?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Counties hide behind LRE to act like it’s the legal requirement for a certain child. In reality mainstream classes are just cheaper. Self-contained is way more expensive so they try to keep anyone they can mainstream. Even if the classroom teacher and the sped teacher and the parents agree the placement is not working, the county will fight it. I’ve seen it happen.

Private schools are failing because of this. Parents will not use them and vote to defund them. It is a death spiral.

You know what is also expensive? TJ. But the school board finds the money to help the advanced kids get even more advanced. They found the money for that. So the kids who are just normal are in the classroom with the disruptive kids and the majority go downhill because they don't have the same advocacy power.

What mainstreaming does is turn regular classrooms into special education classrooms, but it is the wrong fit for everyone.

+1

Schools need SPED rooms, but the SPED parents fight it.

Do you know many SPED parents? I have a SN child (non-violent) and have gotten to know a number of parents over the years with kids with issues like absconding from the classroom, violent outbursts, meltdowns, etc. and know multiple families who have fought for special placements for their kids. It’s a battle. It’s frustrating and heartbreaking.

I know 2 families who finally after YEARS got their kids placed in a private school like a PP mentioned. And 2 others who ended up leaving public and footing the bill for a private school on their own (which they’ve admitted they are lucky they can do). But not every family can afford this.

The only parents I know who don’t want special SPED rooms are those whose kids can absolutely be in a mainstream classroom. We shouldn’t be sending kids out of the regular classroom because of minor issues like stimming or difficulty paying attention. Also, SN are so varied that just dumping all the kids with and IEP in a class together makes no sense. One of my kids has speech issues … would you relegate him to a SPED classroom?

Why is there such resistance to pay for private school on their own? Why is the school on the hook for it? Plenty of people choose private schools over public and there's no expectation that someone else foot the bill. Kids only get one shot at school why waste time dithering if you can afford it but are too cheap to pay for the best school your child needs? It's messed up.

You obviously have no idea how much SPED-focused schools cost, and likely grew up in relative wealth. The vast majority of people could never dream of paying for these schools.

Isn’t is crazy that people having kids couldn’t even afford to pay for their school unless it is free.

You are so out of touch.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are 44 pages of fighting here, but the answer was in another thread about the “Quiet rooms.” Basically, school staff needs to be able to remove these kids so teaching can go on for the rest of the class. It would help the student in crisis to be removed and help the kids who have the right to learn in the classroom.

The ability of schools to take these kids out and go to a calm down room was removed because sometimes those rooms resulted in over punishment for some kids and a group of parents hated them and felt their child experienced abuse in them (Probably true in some cases).

I think those rooms are the solution still and the issues parents had with them need to be addressed rather than just taking all other kids out of the classroom. If a parent doesn’t want their kid in a quiet room, THEN the parent needs to pick the kid up and they can seek another placement. Having a quiet or calm down room is very important for kids with emotional regulation issues.

I think if you are a parent with a typical kid and don’t like what is happening currently with the class leaving, start advocating for the use of calm down rooms again.

No, forcibly restraining and secluding kids is not the solution. It doesn’t help long term.

Yes, taking emotionally out of control students out of the classroom to calm down does help. It also allows sped kids to process and regroup before being hit with the environmental stimuli of the classroom again.

It also helps the kids who are more typical to stay in the classroom and allows the teacher to remained focused on the lesson.

And no, at least in the school district where my kids go, they don’t have calm down rooms. IN MCPS where I taught years ago, the calm down rooms were also not allowed anymore. I believe there was a lawsuit and you couldn’t restrain or touch a kid anymore to have them leave.

Do you have data to support you? There is a LOT of research in favor of sensory spaces/calm down corners, and rooms. It doesn’t have to be a punishment, but it is necessary for these kids to leave if learning for all is to continue. I think the problem lies in the fact that people picture a “rubber room” and not a space where there are bubble lamps, platform covered tables, bean bags etc. Let the kid tear that apart, not the classroom.

If they’re letting them tear the room apart, then they’re doing it wrong. If you’re going to remove a child from a room, then someone needs to be with them to help them deal with their feelings.

My kid’s MCPS elementary school has resource rooms either attached to each classroom or available in each corridor where the special educators and paraeducators will occasionally lead kids that need some time. But they don’t lock them in there alone.

Agreed. There needs to be people in the room with the kid- probably the same people who removed the kid. Some kids melt down from the time the teacher sees the signal to when the team can come get the kid, so the kid may end up ranting in the room. But yes, there should still be someone in there. Resource rooms are great, but we can’t rebuild all the elementary schools to have attached resource rooms.
We COULD have teams of people ready to remove kids who are out of control and stay with them in calm down rooms.

Correct me if I am wrong but in both MCPS and FCPS this is not allowed for different reasons. (MCPS no removing kids, FCPS no calm down rooms). THAT is where people need to focus their energies. FIXING that problem, not blaming kids, parents, teachers and whatever else happened on this thread.

No. MCPS policy forbids “seclusion," which is when a child is locked in a room alone and not allowed to leave.

It does not exclude "exclusion." Per the policy:

"Exclusion is the removal of a student from the classroom to a supervised area for a limited period of time during which the student has an opportunity to regain selfcontrol, and the student is not receiving instruction, including special education, related services, or support. A “time-out” is a behavior management technique that is part of an approved program, involves the monitored separation of the student in a non-locked setting, and is implemented for the purpose of calming. A time-out (which sometimes take the form of an office referral) constitutes a form of exclusion. A time-out is not a form of seclusion. "

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Counties hide behind LRE to act like it’s the legal requirement for a certain child. In reality mainstream classes are just cheaper. Self-contained is way more expensive so they try to keep anyone they can mainstream. Even if the classroom teacher and the sped teacher and the parents agree the placement is not working, the county will fight it. I’ve seen it happen.

Private schools are failing because of this. Parents will not use them and vote to defund them. It is a death spiral.

You know what is also expensive? TJ. But the school board finds the money to help the advanced kids get even more advanced. They found the money for that. So the kids who are just normal are in the classroom with the disruptive kids and the majority go downhill because they don't have the same advocacy power.

What mainstreaming does is turn regular classrooms into special education classrooms, but it is the wrong fit for everyone.

+1

Schools need SPED rooms, but the SPED parents fight it.

Do you know many SPED parents? I have a SN child (non-violent) and have gotten to know a number of parents over the years with kids with issues like absconding from the classroom, violent outbursts, meltdowns, etc. and know multiple families who have fought for special placements for their kids. It’s a battle. It’s frustrating and heartbreaking.

I know 2 families who finally after YEARS got their kids placed in a private school like a PP mentioned. And 2 others who ended up leaving public and footing the bill for a private school on their own (which they’ve admitted they are lucky they can do). But not every family can afford this.

The only parents I know who don’t want special SPED rooms are those whose kids can absolutely be in a mainstream classroom. We shouldn’t be sending kids out of the regular classroom because of minor issues like stimming or difficulty paying attention. Also, SN are so varied that just dumping all the kids with and IEP in a class together makes no sense. One of my kids has speech issues … would you relegate him to a SPED classroom?

Why is there such resistance to pay for private school on their own? Why is the school on the hook for it? Plenty of people choose private schools over public and there's no expectation that someone else foot the bill. Kids only get one shot at school why waste time dithering if you can afford it but are too cheap to pay for the best school your child needs? It's messed up.

You obviously have no idea how much SPED-focused schools cost, and likely grew up in relative wealth. The vast majority of people could never dream of paying for these schools.

Isn’t is crazy that people having kids couldn’t even afford to pay for their school unless it is free.

You are so out of touch.

godforbid we expect people to pay for their kids needs

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are 44 pages of fighting here, but the answer was in another thread about the “Quiet rooms.” Basically, school staff needs to be able to remove these kids so teaching can go on for the rest of the class. It would help the student in crisis to be removed and help the kids who have the right to learn in the classroom.

The ability of schools to take these kids out and go to a calm down room was removed because sometimes those rooms resulted in over punishment for some kids and a group of parents hated them and felt their child experienced abuse in them (Probably true in some cases).

I think those rooms are the solution still and the issues parents had with them need to be addressed rather than just taking all other kids out of the classroom. If a parent doesn’t want their kid in a quiet room, THEN the parent needs to pick the kid up and they can seek another placement. Having a quiet or calm down room is very important for kids with emotional regulation issues.

I think if you are a parent with a typical kid and don’t like what is happening currently with the class leaving, start advocating for the use of calm down rooms again.

No, forcibly restraining and secluding kids is not the solution. It doesn’t help long term.

Yes, taking emotionally out of control students out of the classroom to calm down does help. It also allows sped kids to process and regroup before being hit with the environmental stimuli of the classroom again.

It also helps the kids who are more typical to stay in the classroom and allows the teacher to remained focused on the lesson.

And no, at least in the school district where my kids go, they don’t have calm down rooms. IN MCPS where I taught years ago, the calm down rooms were also not allowed anymore. I believe there was a lawsuit and you couldn’t restrain or touch a kid anymore to have them leave.

Do you have data to support you? There is a LOT of research in favor of sensory spaces/calm down corners, and rooms. It doesn’t have to be a punishment, but it is necessary for these kids to leave if learning for all is to continue. I think the problem lies in the fact that people picture a “rubber room” and not a space where there are bubble lamps, platform covered tables, bean bags etc. Let the kid tear that apart, not the classroom.

If they’re letting them tear the room apart, then they’re doing it wrong. If you’re going to remove a child from a room, then someone needs to be with them to help them deal with their feelings.

My kid’s MCPS elementary school has resource rooms either attached to each classroom or available in each corridor where the special educators and paraeducators will occasionally lead kids that need some time. But they don’t lock them in there alone.

Agreed. There needs to be people in the room with the kid- probably the same people who removed the kid. Some kids melt down from the time the teacher sees the signal to when the team can come get the kid, so the kid may end up ranting in the room. But yes, there should still be someone in there. Resource rooms are great, but we can’t rebuild all the elementary schools to have attached resource rooms.
We COULD have teams of people ready to remove kids who are out of control and stay with them in calm down rooms.

Correct me if I am wrong but in both MCPS and FCPS this is not allowed for different reasons. (MCPS no removing kids, FCPS no calm down rooms). THAT is where people need to focus their energies. FIXING that problem, not blaming kids, parents, teachers and whatever else happened on this thread.

Some FCPS buildings have calm down rooms. There is one at my child's ES.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Counties hide behind LRE to act like it’s the legal requirement for a certain child. In reality mainstream classes are just cheaper. Self-contained is way more expensive so they try to keep anyone they can mainstream. Even if the classroom teacher and the sped teacher and the parents agree the placement is not working, the county will fight it. I’ve seen it happen.

Private schools are failing because of this. Parents will not use them and vote to defund them. It is a death spiral.

You know what is also expensive? TJ. But the school board finds the money to help the advanced kids get even more advanced. They found the money for that. So the kids who are just normal are in the classroom with the disruptive kids and the majority go downhill because they don't have the same advocacy power.

What mainstreaming does is turn regular classrooms into special education classrooms, but it is the wrong fit for everyone.

+1

Schools need SPED rooms, but the SPED parents fight it.

Do you know many SPED parents? I have a SN child (non-violent) and have gotten to know a number of parents over the years with kids with issues like absconding from the classroom, violent outbursts, meltdowns, etc. and know multiple families who have fought for special placements for their kids. It’s a battle. It’s frustrating and heartbreaking.

I know 2 families who finally after YEARS got their kids placed in a private school like a PP mentioned. And 2 others who ended up leaving public and footing the bill for a private school on their own (which they’ve admitted they are lucky they can do). But not every family can afford this.

The only parents I know who don’t want special SPED rooms are those whose kids can absolutely be in a mainstream classroom. We shouldn’t be sending kids out of the regular classroom because of minor issues like stimming or difficulty paying attention. Also, SN are so varied that just dumping all the kids with and IEP in a class together makes no sense. One of my kids has speech issues … would you relegate him to a SPED classroom?

Why is there such resistance to pay for private school on their own? Why is the school on the hook for it? Plenty of people choose private schools over public and there's no expectation that someone else foot the bill. Kids only get one shot at school why waste time dithering if you can afford it but are too cheap to pay for the best school your child needs? It's messed up.

You obviously have no idea how much SPED-focused schools cost, and likely grew up in relative wealth. The vast majority of people could never dream of paying for these schools.

Isn’t is crazy that people having kids couldn’t even afford to pay for their school unless it is free.

You are so out of touch.

godforbid we expect people to pay for their kids needs

Exactly. We should get rid of public schools. Why should your elderly, childless neighbor’s taxes fund your child’s school? Everyone should be forced to privately educate. Don’t have children you can’t afford

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Counties hide behind LRE to act like it’s the legal requirement for a certain child. In reality mainstream classes are just cheaper. Self-contained is way more expensive so they try to keep anyone they can mainstream. Even if the classroom teacher and the sped teacher and the parents agree the placement is not working, the county will fight it. I’ve seen it happen.

Private schools are failing because of this. Parents will not use them and vote to defund them. It is a death spiral.

You know what is also expensive? TJ. But the school board finds the money to help the advanced kids get even more advanced. They found the money for that. So the kids who are just normal are in the classroom with the disruptive kids and the majority go downhill because they don't have the same advocacy power.

What mainstreaming does is turn regular classrooms into special education classrooms, but it is the wrong fit for everyone.

+1

Schools need SPED rooms, but the SPED parents fight it.

Do you know many SPED parents? I have a SN child (non-violent) and have gotten to know a number of parents over the years with kids with issues like absconding from the classroom, violent outbursts, meltdowns, etc. and know multiple families who have fought for special placements for their kids. It’s a battle. It’s frustrating and heartbreaking.

I know 2 families who finally after YEARS got their kids placed in a private school like a PP mentioned. And 2 others who ended up leaving public and footing the bill for a private school on their own (which they’ve admitted they are lucky they can do). But not every family can afford this.

The only parents I know who don’t want special SPED rooms are those whose kids can absolutely be in a mainstream classroom. We shouldn’t be sending kids out of the regular classroom because of minor issues like stimming or difficulty paying attention. Also, SN are so varied that just dumping all the kids with and IEP in a class together makes no sense. One of my kids has speech issues … would you relegate him to a SPED classroom?

Why is there such resistance to pay for private school on their own? Why is the school on the hook for it? Plenty of people choose private schools over public and there's no expectation that someone else foot the bill. Kids only get one shot at school why waste time dithering if you can afford it but are too cheap to pay for the best school your child needs? It's messed up.

You obviously have no idea how much SPED-focused schools cost, and likely grew up in relative wealth. The vast majority of people could never dream of paying for these schools.

Isn’t is crazy that people having kids couldn’t even afford to pay for their school unless it is free.

You are so out of touch.

godforbid we expect people to pay for their kids needs

Nancy Nurse and Fred Firefighter have a baby, Larlo. When he gets to kindergarten, he's diagnosed with ADHD or anxiety or ASD or a number of other possibilities. BTW, none of these are caused by bad parenting and all can result in emotional dysregulation. Tell me, please, how this blue collar, average income family is supposed to suddenly be able to pay hundreds of thousands of medical and private school bills.

[Anonymous]

My kid was in a class with a kid like this. In elementary. He’s in 9th grade now and everything is fine. He’s probably better off socially for having been in class with the kid.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Counties hide behind LRE to act like it’s the legal requirement for a certain child. In reality mainstream classes are just cheaper. Self-contained is way more expensive so they try to keep anyone they can mainstream. Even if the classroom teacher and the sped teacher and the parents agree the placement is not working, the county will fight it. I’ve seen it happen.

Private schools are failing because of this. Parents will not use them and vote to defund them. It is a death spiral.

You know what is also expensive? TJ. But the school board finds the money to help the advanced kids get even more advanced. They found the money for that. So the kids who are just normal are in the classroom with the disruptive kids and the majority go downhill because they don't have the same advocacy power.

What mainstreaming does is turn regular classrooms into special education classrooms, but it is the wrong fit for everyone.

+1

Schools need SPED rooms, but the SPED parents fight it.

Do you know many SPED parents? I have a SN child (non-violent) and have gotten to know a number of parents over the years with kids with issues like absconding from the classroom, violent outbursts, meltdowns, etc. and know multiple families who have fought for special placements for their kids. It’s a battle. It’s frustrating and heartbreaking.

I know 2 families who finally after YEARS got their kids placed in a private school like a PP mentioned. And 2 others who ended up leaving public and footing the bill for a private school on their own (which they’ve admitted they are lucky they can do). But not every family can afford this.

The only parents I know who don’t want special SPED rooms are those whose kids can absolutely be in a mainstream classroom. We shouldn’t be sending kids out of the regular classroom because of minor issues like stimming or difficulty paying attention. Also, SN are so varied that just dumping all the kids with and IEP in a class together makes no sense. One of my kids has speech issues … would you relegate him to a SPED classroom?

Why is there such resistance to pay for private school on their own? Why is the school on the hook for it? Plenty of people choose private schools over public and there's no expectation that someone else foot the bill. Kids only get one shot at school why waste time dithering if you can afford it but are too cheap to pay for the best school your child needs? It's messed up.

You obviously have no idea how much SPED-focused schools cost, and likely grew up in relative wealth. The vast majority of people could never dream of paying for these schools.

Isn’t is crazy that people having kids couldn’t even afford to pay for their school unless it is free.

You are so out of touch.

godforbid we expect people to pay for their kids needs

Nancy Nurse and Fred Firefighter have a baby, Larlo. When he gets to kindergarten, he's diagnosed with ADHD or anxiety or ASD or a number of other possibilities. BTW, none of these are caused by bad parenting and all can result in emotional dysregulation. Tell me, please, how this blue collar, average income family is supposed to suddenly be able to pay hundreds of thousands of medical and private school bills.

Only people making 7 figures should have kids, obviously.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As one who is retired from working many years in special ed with students who have severe behavior issues, with a variety of causes, and also interacting with their parents, it is painful to me to read all this speculation about how things ought to work and what everybody is doing wrong, as if the average DCUM person has any idea what the "answer" is.

I kind of wish Jeff would shut this thread down and make it disappear because it's mostly so ludicrous, but I will acknowledge that it may serve a purpose for parents to vent their thoughts and frustration on this topic even though most have way too little knowledge or information about what they are talking about.

Why post at all if you don’t want to share anything helpful?

Good question, I too wonder why those with experience, training, and education on this issue bother to post at all since 90% of the comments are from parents who are inexperienced, uninformed and uneducated about this topic but yet they think they are experts and know better than everybody what the simple solution is.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Counties hide behind LRE to act like it’s the legal requirement for a certain child. In reality mainstream classes are just cheaper. Self-contained is way more expensive so they try to keep anyone they can mainstream. Even if the classroom teacher and the sped teacher and the parents agree the placement is not working, the county will fight it. I’ve seen it happen.

Private schools are failing because of this. Parents will not use them and vote to defund them. It is a death spiral.

You know what is also expensive? TJ. But the school board finds the money to help the advanced kids get even more advanced. They found the money for that. So the kids who are just normal are in the classroom with the disruptive kids and the majority go downhill because they don't have the same advocacy power.

What mainstreaming does is turn regular classrooms into special education classrooms, but it is the wrong fit for everyone.

+1

Schools need SPED rooms, but the SPED parents fight it.

Do you know many SPED parents? I have a SN child (non-violent) and have gotten to know a number of parents over the years with kids with issues like absconding from the classroom, violent outbursts, meltdowns, etc. and know multiple families who have fought for special placements for their kids. It’s a battle. It’s frustrating and heartbreaking.

I know 2 families who finally after YEARS got their kids placed in a private school like a PP mentioned. And 2 others who ended up leaving public and footing the bill for a private school on their own (which they’ve admitted they are lucky they can do). But not every family can afford this.

The only parents I know who don’t want special SPED rooms are those whose kids can absolutely be in a mainstream classroom. We shouldn’t be sending kids out of the regular classroom because of minor issues like stimming or difficulty paying attention. Also, SN are so varied that just dumping all the kids with and IEP in a class together makes no sense. One of my kids has speech issues … would you relegate him to a SPED classroom?

Why is there such resistance to pay for private school on their own? Why is the school on the hook for it? Plenty of people choose private schools over public and there's no expectation that someone else foot the bill. Kids only get one shot at school why waste time dithering if you can afford it but are too cheap to pay for the best school your child needs? It's messed up.

You obviously have no idea how much SPED-focused schools cost, and likely grew up in relative wealth. The vast majority of people could never dream of paying for these schools.

Isn’t is crazy that people having kids couldn’t even afford to pay for their school unless it is free.

You are so out of touch.

godforbid we expect people to pay for their kids needs

Nancy Nurse and Fred Firefighter have a baby, Larlo. When he gets to kindergarten, he's diagnosed with ADHD or anxiety or ASD or a number of other possibilities. BTW, none of these are caused by bad parenting and all can result in emotional dysregulation. Tell me, please, how this blue collar, average income family is supposed to suddenly be able to pay hundreds of thousands of medical and private school bills.

I’m pretty sure the PPs you’re responding to would prefer if the “poors” don’t have children. And by “poors” I mean anyone with under $1m HHI. Having a family should be a luxury only for the wealthy.

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Anonymous wrote:Counties hide behind LRE to act like it’s the legal requirement for a certain child. In reality mainstream classes are just cheaper. Self-contained is way more expensive so they try to keep anyone they can mainstream. Even if the classroom teacher and the sped teacher and the parents agree the placement is not working, the county will fight it. I’ve seen it happen.

Private schools are failing because of this. Parents will not use them and vote to defund them. It is a death spiral.

You know what is also expensive? TJ. But the school board finds the money to help the advanced kids get even more advanced. They found the money for that. So the kids who are just normal are in the classroom with the disruptive kids and the majority go downhill because they don't have the same advocacy power.

What mainstreaming does is turn regular classrooms into special education classrooms, but it is the wrong fit for everyone.

+1

Schools need SPED rooms, but the SPED parents fight it.

Do you know many SPED parents? I have a SN child (non-violent) and have gotten to know a number of parents over the years with kids with issues like absconding from the classroom, violent outbursts, meltdowns, etc. and know multiple families who have fought for special placements for their kids. It’s a battle. It’s frustrating and heartbreaking.

I know 2 families who finally after YEARS got their kids placed in a private school like a PP mentioned. And 2 others who ended up leaving public and footing the bill for a private school on their own (which they’ve admitted they are lucky they can do). But not every family can afford this.

The only parents I know who don’t want special SPED rooms are those whose kids can absolutely be in a mainstream classroom. We shouldn’t be sending kids out of the regular classroom because of minor issues like stimming or difficulty paying attention. Also, SN are so varied that just dumping all the kids with and IEP in a class together makes no sense. One of my kids has speech issues … would you relegate him to a SPED classroom?

Why is there such resistance to pay for private school on their own? Why is the school on the hook for it? Plenty of people choose private schools over public and there's no expectation that someone else foot the bill. Kids only get one shot at school why waste time dithering if you can afford it but are too cheap to pay for the best school your child needs? It's messed up.

You obviously have no idea how much SPED-focused schools cost, and likely grew up in relative wealth. The vast majority of people could never dream of paying for these schools.

Isn’t is crazy that people having kids couldn’t even afford to pay for their school unless it is free.

You are so out of touch.

godforbid we expect people to pay for their kids needs

Nancy Nurse and Fred Firefighter have a baby, Larlo. When he gets to kindergarten, he's diagnosed with ADHD or anxiety or ASD or a number of other possibilities. BTW, none of these are caused by bad parenting and all can result in emotional dysregulation. Tell me, please, how this blue collar, average income family is supposed to suddenly be able to pay hundreds of thousands of medical and private school bills.

Obviously the only answer is to write them a blank check. We don't and won't provide medical care and private schooling to anyone else, but people with special needs children deserve it because...reasons!