Gaza War, Part 2

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:IDF has eliminated Hamas’ commander of naval forces (Gaza Brigade). Not totally clear, but the strike looks like it was on a structure that sat among a row of other structure: That’s a precision strike, but of course, there could be damage to an adjacent structure— like a block of, say, 10 houses and one is destroyed.

Hamas has “naval forces”? Wut?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:Ceasefire sounds well and good, but will not help get rid of Hamas because they don’t negotiate.

Hostage negotiatons were ongoing
This stopped when Israel started the bombing and ground operations

The hostage situation is terrible, which is what Hamas wants. "human leverage" right?

Nobody on this thread is pro Hamas. Some may be pro Palestinian. Nobody thinks the atrocities of Hamas are ok. The question is how do you deal with the reality of Hamas having de facto control over Gaza.

Some think Israel has to respond by treating Gaza as an independent nation that they are at war with. And that casualties are just something that happens in war. But this is not the situation. You are not dealing with a nation state with resources and responsibilities to its countrymen. You are dealing with a terrorist organization that has gone to ground in a part of your territory that houses an oppressed minority. In the end, you have a larger responsibility to the civilians you are killing.

Very nice. But ultimately says nothing about what Israel should do.

Answer me this. What is the Israeli government’s responsibility to the Palestinian people of Gaza as they try to root out terrorists? Is it the same as their responsibility to Jewish hostages taken captive by these terrorists?

dp. evacuation notices and acting within laws of war.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:IDF has eliminated Hamas’ commander of naval forces (Gaza Brigade). Not totally clear, but the strike looks like it was on a structure that sat among a row of other structure: That’s a precision strike, but of course, there could be damage to an adjacent structure— like a block of, say, 10 houses and one is destroyed.

Hamas has “naval forces”? Wut?

Absolutely. Frogmen, boats, and other forces to infiltrate. Some were neutralized by the Israeli navy in an attempt to infiltrate Israel a few days ago.

[Anonymous]

donations
Edit
On January 24, 1996, Ma'ariv newspaper revealed a Magen David Adom policy that drew heavy criticism in Israel and worldwide.[73][74][75] According to the policy, which was not brought to the attention of the Israeli Ministry of Health or donors, blood donations received from Ethiopian immigrants and their offspring were secretly disposed of. A later public inquiry traced this back to a misinterpretation of a 1984 instruction to mark blood donations from Ethiopian immigrants due to a relatively high prevalence of HBsAg, indicative of Hepatitis B infections, in blood samples taken from this population.[76]

A few days after the expose, ten thousand Beta Israel demonstrated in front of the Office of the Prime Minister. The police force was surprised and unprepared for the violence that erupted, leading to policemen being injured by stones, sticks, and steel rods. The police repelled the demonstrators with rubber bullets, water cannons, and tear gas. 41 policemen and 20 demonstrators were injured, and 200 cars belonging to the employees of the Prime Minister's Office were damaged.

Tests conducted on 650 Ethiopian immigrants who immigrated to Israel in 1984–1990 and 5,200 Ethiopian immigrants who immigrated in 1990–1992 revealed no HIV carriers before July 1990. Nevertheless, among the 5,200 Ethiopian immigrants who immigrated during "Operation Solomon", there were 118 HIV carriers, who made up 2.3 percent of the test population.[77][78][79][80][81]

The public outcry led to his dismissal of the CEO of MDA, and the establishment of a commission of inquiry headed by former Israeli president Yitzhak Navon. After several months, the committee published its conclusions, calling for a change in policy. The Committee did not find evidence of racism, although some researchers have contested this.[73][82][83]

On November 6, 2006, hundreds of Ethiopians clashed with police when protesters attempted to block the entrance to Jerusalem in the wake of the Israeli Health Ministry's decision to continue the MDA policy of disposing of donations from high-risk groups.[84]

To date, the MDA prohibits the use of blood donations from natives of sub-Saharan Africa, except South Africa, natives of Southeast Asia, natives of the Caribbean and natives of countries which have been widely affected by the AIDS epidemic, including donations from the natives of Ethiopia. Since 1991, all immigrants from Ethiopia undergo mandatory HIV screenings, regardless of their intention to donate blood.[85][86][87]

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:IDF has eliminated Hamas’ commander of naval forces (Gaza Brigade). Not totally clear, but the strike looks like it was on a structure that sat among a row of other structure: That’s a precision strike, but of course, there could be damage to an adjacent structure— like a block of, say, 10 houses and one is destroyed.

Hamas has “naval forces”? Wut?

Wait but I thought Israel controlled the waters???!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:IDF has eliminated Hamas’ commander of naval forces (Gaza Brigade). Not totally clear, but the strike looks like it was on a structure that sat among a row of other structure: That’s a precision strike, but of course, there could be damage to an adjacent structure— like a block of, say, 10 houses and one is destroyed.

Hamas has “naval forces”? Wut?

Wait but I thought Israel controlled the waters???!

The IDF killed a few militants on fishing boats. Whatever.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I'd respect the pro-Palestinian contingent far more if they weren't so ignorant and didn't make this whole thing sound like a video game.

The saddest part is when I ask them what their alternative plan is to the current situation and they have nothing.

It’s all just feels. Which is fine, it’s right to feel sad and angry about the situation. I am. They just don’t know enough about the situation to really be able to engage substantively in a discussion about what’s next.

Which is frustrating. Listen, I hate it too. I hate Bibi. But I know enough to have an intelligent discussion about this. They clearly don’t, as they crumble in the face of questions.

Thank the heavens we have intelligent folks like you here to occupy the adult table. Do you even read aloud what you type? People here have endured your inane perseveration re: “to what end” and already Mutombo’d the shit out of it with ideas. Others have ignored you because they know YOUR endgame is to stifle any real discussion because in the long run, you’re pleased as punch with the status quo.

No one has given reasonable ideas, or in fact any ideas.

You use the word reasonable to tip your hand that you’re not willing to change ANYTHING, but you expect not to be laughed at or ignored. OK.

I never said that. But when the only idea is one that would guarantee 7 million Israeli Jews are under the rule of Palestinians, without getting rid of Hamas, well then that’s not so reasonable now is it?

That’s not a solution ANYONE has floated, nor one that I would support. Both sides deserve to live in peaceful co-existence with one another. Anything that threatens that, like Hamas militants / terrorists or parents that teach their children to dehumanize the other side or Bibi or settler militants / terrorists or politicians on both sides who dehumanize the other side or displaced Palestinians who can’t get onboard with a new plan … they can all F off, as far as I’m concerned.

So I have to explain it again:

One state means Palestinians rule because there are more of them. That places all Israeli Jews at risk, especially if Hamas is still around.

Many on this thread have proposed one state.

The West Bank is the one state solution of Israeli and Arabs living side by side and even though it is majority Palestinians but they don’t rule. The ones at risk are not the Israelis in the West Bank. It’s the Palestinians.

Jeez, I really do have to spell it all out for you all.

If ALL Palestinians were incorporated into Israel as one state, they would outnumber Jews and thus run the government.

But that’s… democracy. That’s how a democratic country works. Artificially holding people on land and giving them no citizenship is apartheid. I live in a democracy, I do not support an apartheid state.

And if Hamas is still around, they would infiltrate that government and kill Jews en masse.

Ok with you?

But I thought Israel is destroying Hamas by razing Gaza and killing thousands of children. No?

Hamas will be around for quite awhile. So you can’t hurt conveniently pretend they’re gone.

Then why is Israel razing Gaza? What are they accomplishing and how long is that supposed to take?

Well, when you’re trying to get rid of a wealthy terrorist group that has ruled a place for 20 years, it takes awhile.

Ask the US about Afghanistan and how that went.

So if that is your analogy, are you saying that Israel will actually never defeat Hamas and the organisation will just bounce back? Then why are they killing so many civilians? What is being accomplished?

So we’re back again to my original question: what’s your alternative strategy?

You can’t answer a question with a question. Do you believe that Israel has a strategy and is pursuing a course of action that will succeed, or don’t you? And if so, why would they then have to worry about Hamas infilitrating the Palestinian population? THEN you can give me a question.

I think they’re dealing with an insane death cult and there are no good options.

But I assume you have ingenious ideas.

Why is razing Gaza, a place that is 50% children, and killing thousands upon thousands of innocent people the best of their bad options?

What’s your plan?

Why do I have to have a plan? I am just a civilian without an army and intelligence service at my disposal. You would think with everything Israel has, they would be able to come up with a plan that someone, anyone, can believe in. I guess they just drank their own kool aid for too long. Even YOU don’t think they will succeed as you try to defend their tactics. They are just taking Hamas’ bait.

Sometimes when you make a series of awful decisions you go down a path that will end badly no matter what you do next, and it is no one’s fault but your own. Israel is going down that path.

So easy when you’re sitting in your Bethesda house. So goddamn easy.

So mean and nasty with the "Bethesda house" line.

Once they run out of talking points they get mad and call names. At least I am not anti-Semitic, I’ve just committed the cardinal sin of potentially living in Bethesda.

No, you’re just a charlatan who pretends to care about humanity when really you’re willing to throw the lives of Israeli Jews away.

Who said ANYTHING about throwing the lives of Israeli Jews away? YOU are the one who essentially conceded that THOUSANDS of Palestinian lives are being thrown away in a futile effort to eliminate Hamas, and YOU are the one who seems ok with that. It’s not a hypothetical- people are dying for no reason, by your own admission, and you are TOTALLY OK with it.

I NEVER SAID I AM OK WITH IT.

I have said that many times.

I have explained how withdrawing US support would result in Israel vs much of the region.

I have explained how a one state solution without getting rid of Hamas puts Israeli Jews in danger.

People have said “I don’t care.”

So if Hamas is a threat to Israel, couldn’t Israel absorb the Palestinians in the West Bank and give them citizenship? They never voted for Hamas. Then Israel would get all the territory it wants in the West Bank.

You guys act like they’re just pets. I’ve yet to meet a Palestinian who thought they’d be safe in Israel. They’d be targeted, harassed, or murdered. I’d never want to subject myself to that much oppression, though really they’re not safe from Israel now either

And how many Palestinians have you asked? 20% of Israel’s population is Arab, so at least those Palestinians feel safe.

I’ve actually met a Palestinian academic who very passionately believes that it is time for a one state solution.

And that 20% are treated like second class citizens. Israel is a deeply racist country. Every Palestinian I know feels that way. I know zero who think otherwise. And same for my extended family in other Arab countries. We talk about this a lot

Do you believe Israel has a right to exist?

Oh god. Here you pro-apartheid folks go again. We must have a mandatory preamble to everything. How about all you pro-apartheid era start with whether you believe ethnic cleansing is justified by Israel and whether “never again “ only applies to European Jews, huh?

Answer that and lead with it every time

I asked you a question first. Stop deflecting.

Your question is BS pro apartheid censorship. When you don’t have a point, you pivot and demand that everyone swear allegiance to Israel. It’s fascist tactics and I’m over it. You guys have been exposed

Do you support genocide as long as the dead are brown?

Arabs aren’t brown, dumbass.

You clearly don’t know any Arabs from your home in Maryland. My family all disagree with you, but rich white ladies csll the shots, right?

I’m not white, but nice try.

Palestinian Arabs and Israeli Jews look nearly identical.

Sure, Jan. I’ve been hearing all week how Amy Schumer is an oppressed POC. Must’ve been hard for her. Plenty of police profiling. And with only a Senate Majority Leader cousin to help her out? So hard

Does anyone else remember in 1964 when 2 Jewish civil rights activists named Andrew Goodman and Michael Schwerner (along with James Chaney, a Black civil rights activist) were stopped by the police in Mississippi, harassed and arrested and then basically turned over to the KKK who murdered them. Are you telling me the police and the KKk didn’t target that group because they were composed of Black and Jewish people? If that’s not oppression I don’t know what is.

Are you for real? They were targeted for supporting black people, not for being Jewish.

DP. Jews worked tirelessly in efforts to secure civil rights for others.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:IDF has eliminated Hamas’ commander of naval forces (Gaza Brigade). Not totally clear, but the strike looks like it was on a structure that sat among a row of other structure: That’s a precision strike, but of course, there could be damage to an adjacent structure— like a block of, say, 10 houses and one is destroyed.

Hamas has “naval forces”? Wut?

Wait but I thought Israel controlled the waters???!

The IDF killed a few militants on fishing boats. Whatever.

There is impressive footage from October 7.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:IDF has eliminated Hamas’ commander of naval forces (Gaza Brigade). Not totally clear, but the strike looks like it was on a structure that sat among a row of other structure: That’s a precision strike, but of course, there could be damage to an adjacent structure— like a block of, say, 10 houses and one is destroyed.

Hamas has “naval forces”? Wut?

Wait but I thought Israel controlled the waters???!

The IDF killed a few militants on fishing boats. Whatever.

lol keep telling yourself Hamas is these poor freedom fighters. Delusional.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I'd respect the pro-Palestinian contingent far more if they weren't so ignorant and didn't make this whole thing sound like a video game.

The saddest part is when I ask them what their alternative plan is to the current situation and they have nothing.

It’s all just feels. Which is fine, it’s right to feel sad and angry about the situation. I am. They just don’t know enough about the situation to really be able to engage substantively in a discussion about what’s next.

Which is frustrating. Listen, I hate it too. I hate Bibi. But I know enough to have an intelligent discussion about this. They clearly don’t, as they crumble in the face of questions.

Thank the heavens we have intelligent folks like you here to occupy the adult table. Do you even read aloud what you type? People here have endured your inane perseveration re: “to what end” and already Mutombo’d the shit out of it with ideas. Others have ignored you because they know YOUR endgame is to stifle any real discussion because in the long run, you’re pleased as punch with the status quo.

No one has given reasonable ideas, or in fact any ideas.

You use the word reasonable to tip your hand that you’re not willing to change ANYTHING, but you expect not to be laughed at or ignored. OK.

I never said that. But when the only idea is one that would guarantee 7 million Israeli Jews are under the rule of Palestinians, without getting rid of Hamas, well then that’s not so reasonable now is it?

That’s not a solution ANYONE has floated, nor one that I would support. Both sides deserve to live in peaceful co-existence with one another. Anything that threatens that, like Hamas militants / terrorists or parents that teach their children to dehumanize the other side or Bibi or settler militants / terrorists or politicians on both sides who dehumanize the other side or displaced Palestinians who can’t get onboard with a new plan … they can all F off, as far as I’m concerned.

So I have to explain it again:

One state means Palestinians rule because there are more of them. That places all Israeli Jews at risk, especially if Hamas is still around.

Many on this thread have proposed one state.

The West Bank is the one state solution of Israeli and Arabs living side by side and even though it is majority Palestinians but they don’t rule. The ones at risk are not the Israelis in the West Bank. It’s the Palestinians.

Jeez, I really do have to spell it all out for you all.

If ALL Palestinians were incorporated into Israel as one state, they would outnumber Jews and thus run the government.

But that’s… democracy. That’s how a democratic country works. Artificially holding people on land and giving them no citizenship is apartheid. I live in a democracy, I do not support an apartheid state.

And if Hamas is still around, they would infiltrate that government and kill Jews en masse.

Ok with you?

But I thought Israel is destroying Hamas by razing Gaza and killing thousands of children. No?

Hamas will be around for quite awhile. So you can’t hurt conveniently pretend they’re gone.

Then why is Israel razing Gaza? What are they accomplishing and how long is that supposed to take?

Well, when you’re trying to get rid of a wealthy terrorist group that has ruled a place for 20 years, it takes awhile.

Ask the US about Afghanistan and how that went.

So if that is your analogy, are you saying that Israel will actually never defeat Hamas and the organisation will just bounce back? Then why are they killing so many civilians? What is being accomplished?

So we’re back again to my original question: what’s your alternative strategy?

You can’t answer a question with a question. Do you believe that Israel has a strategy and is pursuing a course of action that will succeed, or don’t you? And if so, why would they then have to worry about Hamas infilitrating the Palestinian population? THEN you can give me a question.

I think they’re dealing with an insane death cult and there are no good options.

But I assume you have ingenious ideas.

Why is razing Gaza, a place that is 50% children, and killing thousands upon thousands of innocent people the best of their bad options?

What’s your plan?

Why do I have to have a plan? I am just a civilian without an army and intelligence service at my disposal. You would think with everything Israel has, they would be able to come up with a plan that someone, anyone, can believe in. I guess they just drank their own kool aid for too long. Even YOU don’t think they will succeed as you try to defend their tactics. They are just taking Hamas’ bait.

Sometimes when you make a series of awful decisions you go down a path that will end badly no matter what you do next, and it is no one’s fault but your own. Israel is going down that path.

So easy when you’re sitting in your Bethesda house. So goddamn easy.

So mean and nasty with the "Bethesda house" line.

Once they run out of talking points they get mad and call names. At least I am not anti-Semitic, I’ve just committed the cardinal sin of potentially living in Bethesda.

No, you’re just a charlatan who pretends to care about humanity when really you’re willing to throw the lives of Israeli Jews away.

Who said ANYTHING about throwing the lives of Israeli Jews away? YOU are the one who essentially conceded that THOUSANDS of Palestinian lives are being thrown away in a futile effort to eliminate Hamas, and YOU are the one who seems ok with that. It’s not a hypothetical- people are dying for no reason, by your own admission, and you are TOTALLY OK with it.

I NEVER SAID I AM OK WITH IT.

I have said that many times.

I have explained how withdrawing US support would result in Israel vs much of the region.

I have explained how a one state solution without getting rid of Hamas puts Israeli Jews in danger.

People have said “I don’t care.”

So if Hamas is a threat to Israel, couldn’t Israel absorb the Palestinians in the West Bank and give them citizenship? They never voted for Hamas. Then Israel would get all the territory it wants in the West Bank.

You guys act like they’re just pets. I’ve yet to meet a Palestinian who thought they’d be safe in Israel. They’d be targeted, harassed, or murdered. I’d never want to subject myself to that much oppression, though really they’re not safe from Israel now either

And how many Palestinians have you asked? 20% of Israel’s population is Arab, so at least those Palestinians feel safe.

I’ve actually met a Palestinian academic who very passionately believes that it is time for a one state solution.

And that 20% are treated like second class citizens. Israel is a deeply racist country. Every Palestinian I know feels that way. I know zero who think otherwise. And same for my extended family in other Arab countries. We talk about this a lot

Do you believe Israel has a right to exist?

Oh god. Here you pro-apartheid folks go again. We must have a mandatory preamble to everything. How about all you pro-apartheid era start with whether you believe ethnic cleansing is justified by Israel and whether “never again “ only applies to European Jews, huh?

Answer that and lead with it every time

I asked you a question first. Stop deflecting.

Your question is BS pro apartheid censorship. When you don’t have a point, you pivot and demand that everyone swear allegiance to Israel. It’s fascist tactics and I’m over it. You guys have been exposed

Do you support genocide as long as the dead are brown?

Arabs aren’t brown, dumbass.

You clearly don’t know any Arabs from your home in Maryland. My family all disagree with you, but rich white ladies csll the shots, right?

I’m not white, but nice try.

Palestinian Arabs and Israeli Jews look nearly identical.

Sure, Jan. I’ve been hearing all week how Amy Schumer is an oppressed POC. Must’ve been hard for her. Plenty of police profiling. And with only a Senate Majority Leader cousin to help her out? So hard

Does anyone else remember in 1964 when 2 Jewish civil rights activists named Andrew Goodman and Michael Schwerner (along with James Chaney, a Black civil rights activist) were stopped by the police in Mississippi, harassed and arrested and then basically turned over to the KKK who murdered them. Are you telling me the police and the KKk didn’t target that group because they were composed of Black and Jewish people? If that’s not oppression I don’t know what is.

Are you for real? They were targeted for supporting black people, not for being Jewish.

DP. Jews worked tirelessly in efforts to secure civil rights for others.

Jews helped found the NAACP.

[Anonymous]

IDF states that 150 underground targets were destroyed by “bunker buster” munitions overnight.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I'd respect the pro-Palestinian contingent far more if they weren't so ignorant and didn't make this whole thing sound like a video game.

The saddest part is when I ask them what their alternative plan is to the current situation and they have nothing.

It’s all just feels. Which is fine, it’s right to feel sad and angry about the situation. I am. They just don’t know enough about the situation to really be able to engage substantively in a discussion about what’s next.

Which is frustrating. Listen, I hate it too. I hate Bibi. But I know enough to have an intelligent discussion about this. They clearly don’t, as they crumble in the face of questions.

Thank the heavens we have intelligent folks like you here to occupy the adult table. Do you even read aloud what you type? People here have endured your inane perseveration re: “to what end” and already Mutombo’d the shit out of it with ideas. Others have ignored you because they know YOUR endgame is to stifle any real discussion because in the long run, you’re pleased as punch with the status quo.

No one has given reasonable ideas, or in fact any ideas.

You use the word reasonable to tip your hand that you’re not willing to change ANYTHING, but you expect not to be laughed at or ignored. OK.

I never said that. But when the only idea is one that would guarantee 7 million Israeli Jews are under the rule of Palestinians, without getting rid of Hamas, well then that’s not so reasonable now is it?

That’s not a solution ANYONE has floated, nor one that I would support. Both sides deserve to live in peaceful co-existence with one another. Anything that threatens that, like Hamas militants / terrorists or parents that teach their children to dehumanize the other side or Bibi or settler militants / terrorists or politicians on both sides who dehumanize the other side or displaced Palestinians who can’t get onboard with a new plan … they can all F off, as far as I’m concerned.

So I have to explain it again:

One state means Palestinians rule because there are more of them. That places all Israeli Jews at risk, especially if Hamas is still around.

Many on this thread have proposed one state.

The West Bank is the one state solution of Israeli and Arabs living side by side and even though it is majority Palestinians but they don’t rule. The ones at risk are not the Israelis in the West Bank. It’s the Palestinians.

Jeez, I really do have to spell it all out for you all.

If ALL Palestinians were incorporated into Israel as one state, they would outnumber Jews and thus run the government.

But that’s… democracy. That’s how a democratic country works. Artificially holding people on land and giving them no citizenship is apartheid. I live in a democracy, I do not support an apartheid state.

And if Hamas is still around, they would infiltrate that government and kill Jews en masse.

Ok with you?

But I thought Israel is destroying Hamas by razing Gaza and killing thousands of children. No?

Hamas will be around for quite awhile. So you can’t hurt conveniently pretend they’re gone.

Then why is Israel razing Gaza? What are they accomplishing and how long is that supposed to take?

Well, when you’re trying to get rid of a wealthy terrorist group that has ruled a place for 20 years, it takes awhile.

Ask the US about Afghanistan and how that went.

So if that is your analogy, are you saying that Israel will actually never defeat Hamas and the organisation will just bounce back? Then why are they killing so many civilians? What is being accomplished?

So we’re back again to my original question: what’s your alternative strategy?

You can’t answer a question with a question. Do you believe that Israel has a strategy and is pursuing a course of action that will succeed, or don’t you? And if so, why would they then have to worry about Hamas infilitrating the Palestinian population? THEN you can give me a question.

I think they’re dealing with an insane death cult and there are no good options.

But I assume you have ingenious ideas.

Why is razing Gaza, a place that is 50% children, and killing thousands upon thousands of innocent people the best of their bad options?

What’s your plan?

Why do I have to have a plan? I am just a civilian without an army and intelligence service at my disposal. You would think with everything Israel has, they would be able to come up with a plan that someone, anyone, can believe in. I guess they just drank their own kool aid for too long. Even YOU don’t think they will succeed as you try to defend their tactics. They are just taking Hamas’ bait.

Sometimes when you make a series of awful decisions you go down a path that will end badly no matter what you do next, and it is no one’s fault but your own. Israel is going down that path.

So easy when you’re sitting in your Bethesda house. So goddamn easy.

So mean and nasty with the "Bethesda house" line.

Once they run out of talking points they get mad and call names. At least I am not anti-Semitic, I’ve just committed the cardinal sin of potentially living in Bethesda.

No, you’re just a charlatan who pretends to care about humanity when really you’re willing to throw the lives of Israeli Jews away.

Who said ANYTHING about throwing the lives of Israeli Jews away? YOU are the one who essentially conceded that THOUSANDS of Palestinian lives are being thrown away in a futile effort to eliminate Hamas, and YOU are the one who seems ok with that. It’s not a hypothetical- people are dying for no reason, by your own admission, and you are TOTALLY OK with it.

I NEVER SAID I AM OK WITH IT.

I have said that many times.

I have explained how withdrawing US support would result in Israel vs much of the region.

I have explained how a one state solution without getting rid of Hamas puts Israeli Jews in danger.

People have said “I don’t care.”

So if Hamas is a threat to Israel, couldn’t Israel absorb the Palestinians in the West Bank and give them citizenship? They never voted for Hamas. Then Israel would get all the territory it wants in the West Bank.

You guys act like they’re just pets. I’ve yet to meet a Palestinian who thought they’d be safe in Israel. They’d be targeted, harassed, or murdered. I’d never want to subject myself to that much oppression, though really they’re not safe from Israel now either

And how many Palestinians have you asked? 20% of Israel’s population is Arab, so at least those Palestinians feel safe.

I’ve actually met a Palestinian academic who very passionately believes that it is time for a one state solution.

And that 20% are treated like second class citizens. Israel is a deeply racist country. Every Palestinian I know feels that way. I know zero who think otherwise. And same for my extended family in other Arab countries. We talk about this a lot

Do you believe Israel has a right to exist?

Oh god. Here you pro-apartheid folks go again. We must have a mandatory preamble to everything. How about all you pro-apartheid era start with whether you believe ethnic cleansing is justified by Israel and whether “never again “ only applies to European Jews, huh?

Answer that and lead with it every time

I asked you a question first. Stop deflecting.

Your question is BS pro apartheid censorship. When you don’t have a point, you pivot and demand that everyone swear allegiance to Israel. It’s fascist tactics and I’m over it. You guys have been exposed

Do you support genocide as long as the dead are brown?

Arabs aren’t brown, dumbass.

You clearly don’t know any Arabs from your home in Maryland. My family all disagree with you, but rich white ladies csll the shots, right?

I’m not white, but nice try.

Palestinian Arabs and Israeli Jews look nearly identical.

Sure, Jan. I’ve been hearing all week how Amy Schumer is an oppressed POC. Must’ve been hard for her. Plenty of police profiling. And with only a Senate Majority Leader cousin to help her out? So hard

Does anyone else remember in 1964 when 2 Jewish civil rights activists named Andrew Goodman and Michael Schwerner (along with James Chaney, a Black civil rights activist) were stopped by the police in Mississippi, harassed and arrested and then basically turned over to the KKK who murdered them. Are you telling me the police and the KKk didn’t target that group because they were composed of Black and Jewish people? If that’s not oppression I don’t know what is.

Are you for real? They were targeted for supporting black people, not for being Jewish.

DP. Jews worked tirelessly in efforts to secure civil rights for others.

Jews helped found the NAACP.

And did so much more.

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Anonymous wrote:I'd respect the pro-Palestinian contingent far more if they weren't so ignorant and didn't make this whole thing sound like a video game.

The saddest part is when I ask them what their alternative plan is to the current situation and they have nothing.

It’s all just feels. Which is fine, it’s right to feel sad and angry about the situation. I am. They just don’t know enough about the situation to really be able to engage substantively in a discussion about what’s next.

Which is frustrating. Listen, I hate it too. I hate Bibi. But I know enough to have an intelligent discussion about this. They clearly don’t, as they crumble in the face of questions.

Thank the heavens we have intelligent folks like you here to occupy the adult table. Do you even read aloud what you type? People here have endured your inane perseveration re: “to what end” and already Mutombo’d the shit out of it with ideas. Others have ignored you because they know YOUR endgame is to stifle any real discussion because in the long run, you’re pleased as punch with the status quo.

No one has given reasonable ideas, or in fact any ideas.

You use the word reasonable to tip your hand that you’re not willing to change ANYTHING, but you expect not to be laughed at or ignored. OK.

I never said that. But when the only idea is one that would guarantee 7 million Israeli Jews are under the rule of Palestinians, without getting rid of Hamas, well then that’s not so reasonable now is it?

That’s not a solution ANYONE has floated, nor one that I would support. Both sides deserve to live in peaceful co-existence with one another. Anything that threatens that, like Hamas militants / terrorists or parents that teach their children to dehumanize the other side or Bibi or settler militants / terrorists or politicians on both sides who dehumanize the other side or displaced Palestinians who can’t get onboard with a new plan … they can all F off, as far as I’m concerned.

So I have to explain it again:

One state means Palestinians rule because there are more of them. That places all Israeli Jews at risk, especially if Hamas is still around.

Many on this thread have proposed one state.

The West Bank is the one state solution of Israeli and Arabs living side by side and even though it is majority Palestinians but they don’t rule. The ones at risk are not the Israelis in the West Bank. It’s the Palestinians.

Jeez, I really do have to spell it all out for you all.

If ALL Palestinians were incorporated into Israel as one state, they would outnumber Jews and thus run the government.

But that’s… democracy. That’s how a democratic country works. Artificially holding people on land and giving them no citizenship is apartheid. I live in a democracy, I do not support an apartheid state.

And if Hamas is still around, they would infiltrate that government and kill Jews en masse.

Ok with you?

But I thought Israel is destroying Hamas by razing Gaza and killing thousands of children. No?

Hamas will be around for quite awhile. So you can’t hurt conveniently pretend they’re gone.

Then why is Israel razing Gaza? What are they accomplishing and how long is that supposed to take?

Well, when you’re trying to get rid of a wealthy terrorist group that has ruled a place for 20 years, it takes awhile.

Ask the US about Afghanistan and how that went.

So if that is your analogy, are you saying that Israel will actually never defeat Hamas and the organisation will just bounce back? Then why are they killing so many civilians? What is being accomplished?

So we’re back again to my original question: what’s your alternative strategy?

You can’t answer a question with a question. Do you believe that Israel has a strategy and is pursuing a course of action that will succeed, or don’t you? And if so, why would they then have to worry about Hamas infilitrating the Palestinian population? THEN you can give me a question.

I think they’re dealing with an insane death cult and there are no good options.

But I assume you have ingenious ideas.

Why is razing Gaza, a place that is 50% children, and killing thousands upon thousands of innocent people the best of their bad options?

What’s your plan?

Why do I have to have a plan? I am just a civilian without an army and intelligence service at my disposal. You would think with everything Israel has, they would be able to come up with a plan that someone, anyone, can believe in. I guess they just drank their own kool aid for too long. Even YOU don’t think they will succeed as you try to defend their tactics. They are just taking Hamas’ bait.

Sometimes when you make a series of awful decisions you go down a path that will end badly no matter what you do next, and it is no one’s fault but your own. Israel is going down that path.

So easy when you’re sitting in your Bethesda house. So goddamn easy.

So mean and nasty with the "Bethesda house" line.

Once they run out of talking points they get mad and call names. At least I am not anti-Semitic, I’ve just committed the cardinal sin of potentially living in Bethesda.

No, you’re just a charlatan who pretends to care about humanity when really you’re willing to throw the lives of Israeli Jews away.

Who said ANYTHING about throwing the lives of Israeli Jews away? YOU are the one who essentially conceded that THOUSANDS of Palestinian lives are being thrown away in a futile effort to eliminate Hamas, and YOU are the one who seems ok with that. It’s not a hypothetical- people are dying for no reason, by your own admission, and you are TOTALLY OK with it.

I NEVER SAID I AM OK WITH IT.

I have said that many times.

I have explained how withdrawing US support would result in Israel vs much of the region.

I have explained how a one state solution without getting rid of Hamas puts Israeli Jews in danger.

People have said “I don’t care.”

So if Hamas is a threat to Israel, couldn’t Israel absorb the Palestinians in the West Bank and give them citizenship? They never voted for Hamas. Then Israel would get all the territory it wants in the West Bank.

You guys act like they’re just pets. I’ve yet to meet a Palestinian who thought they’d be safe in Israel. They’d be targeted, harassed, or murdered. I’d never want to subject myself to that much oppression, though really they’re not safe from Israel now either

And how many Palestinians have you asked? 20% of Israel’s population is Arab, so at least those Palestinians feel safe.

I’ve actually met a Palestinian academic who very passionately believes that it is time for a one state solution.

And that 20% are treated like second class citizens. Israel is a deeply racist country. Every Palestinian I know feels that way. I know zero who think otherwise. And same for my extended family in other Arab countries. We talk about this a lot

Do you believe Israel has a right to exist?

Oh god. Here you pro-apartheid folks go again. We must have a mandatory preamble to everything. How about all you pro-apartheid era start with whether you believe ethnic cleansing is justified by Israel and whether “never again “ only applies to European Jews, huh?

Answer that and lead with it every time

I asked you a question first. Stop deflecting.

Your question is BS pro apartheid censorship. When you don’t have a point, you pivot and demand that everyone swear allegiance to Israel. It’s fascist tactics and I’m over it. You guys have been exposed

Do you support genocide as long as the dead are brown?

Arabs aren’t brown, dumbass.

You clearly don’t know any Arabs from your home in Maryland. My family all disagree with you, but rich white ladies csll the shots, right?

I’m not white, but nice try.

Palestinian Arabs and Israeli Jews look nearly identical.

Israel is being controlled and operated by European Jews who survived the European genocide not Sephardic Jews.

80% of all Jews are Ashkenazi. That’s what you mean with your pejorative “European.” We are half European, half Middle Eastern.

Yes. The middle eastern half is closely genetically related to Palestinians. And the European half is bc of inter-breeding with European countries. What does this mean to you? To me it means that Palestinians have ancient historical ties to the land that Israel sits on today. I’m not saying Israel shouldn’t exist. But I am saying that Palestinians have a right to exist as well. Do I know how to achieve this - no. But I do know that co tinier bombing and killing people with a right to live where they are living is not the answer.

And Jews don’t have historical ties to the land? What BS that you acknowledge one but not the other.

Please read my post again. That is not what o wrote. I said “I’m not saying Israel shouldn’t exist. But I am saying that Palestinians have a right to exist also.” In other words. I’m acknowledging both have rights and both populations are closely genetically related (except the Jewish half that left and interbred). It seems you are the one acknowledging one and not the other of you mean that Palestinians don’t have a right to the land but Jews do?

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Anonymous wrote:IDF has eliminated Hamas’ commander of naval forces (Gaza Brigade). Not totally clear, but the strike looks like it was on a structure that sat among a row of other structure: That’s a precision strike, but of course, there could be damage to an adjacent structure— like a block of, say, 10 houses and one is destroyed.

Hamas has “naval forces”? Wut?

Wait but I thought Israel controlled the waters???!

The IDF killed a few militants on fishing boats. Whatever.

lol keep telling yourself Hamas is these poor freedom fighters. Delusional.

Heavily armed terrorists on speed boats seeking entry to Israel to slaughter Jews. It’s not like Israel is just going to shrug it off.

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Anonymous wrote:I'd respect the pro-Palestinian contingent far more if they weren't so ignorant and didn't make this whole thing sound like a video game.

The saddest part is when I ask them what their alternative plan is to the current situation and they have nothing.

It’s all just feels. Which is fine, it’s right to feel sad and angry about the situation. I am. They just don’t know enough about the situation to really be able to engage substantively in a discussion about what’s next.

Which is frustrating. Listen, I hate it too. I hate Bibi. But I know enough to have an intelligent discussion about this. They clearly don’t, as they crumble in the face of questions.

Thank the heavens we have intelligent folks like you here to occupy the adult table. Do you even read aloud what you type? People here have endured your inane perseveration re: “to what end” and already Mutombo’d the shit out of it with ideas. Others have ignored you because they know YOUR endgame is to stifle any real discussion because in the long run, you’re pleased as punch with the status quo.

No one has given reasonable ideas, or in fact any ideas.

You use the word reasonable to tip your hand that you’re not willing to change ANYTHING, but you expect not to be laughed at or ignored. OK.

I never said that. But when the only idea is one that would guarantee 7 million Israeli Jews are under the rule of Palestinians, without getting rid of Hamas, well then that’s not so reasonable now is it?

That’s not a solution ANYONE has floated, nor one that I would support. Both sides deserve to live in peaceful co-existence with one another. Anything that threatens that, like Hamas militants / terrorists or parents that teach their children to dehumanize the other side or Bibi or settler militants / terrorists or politicians on both sides who dehumanize the other side or displaced Palestinians who can’t get onboard with a new plan … they can all F off, as far as I’m concerned.

So I have to explain it again:

One state means Palestinians rule because there are more of them. That places all Israeli Jews at risk, especially if Hamas is still around.

Many on this thread have proposed one state.

The West Bank is the one state solution of Israeli and Arabs living side by side and even though it is majority Palestinians but they don’t rule. The ones at risk are not the Israelis in the West Bank. It’s the Palestinians.

Jeez, I really do have to spell it all out for you all.

If ALL Palestinians were incorporated into Israel as one state, they would outnumber Jews and thus run the government.

But that’s… democracy. That’s how a democratic country works. Artificially holding people on land and giving them no citizenship is apartheid. I live in a democracy, I do not support an apartheid state.

And if Hamas is still around, they would infiltrate that government and kill Jews en masse.

Ok with you?

But I thought Israel is destroying Hamas by razing Gaza and killing thousands of children. No?

Hamas will be around for quite awhile. So you can’t hurt conveniently pretend they’re gone.

Then why is Israel razing Gaza? What are they accomplishing and how long is that supposed to take?

Well, when you’re trying to get rid of a wealthy terrorist group that has ruled a place for 20 years, it takes awhile.

Ask the US about Afghanistan and how that went.

So if that is your analogy, are you saying that Israel will actually never defeat Hamas and the organisation will just bounce back? Then why are they killing so many civilians? What is being accomplished?

So we’re back again to my original question: what’s your alternative strategy?

You can’t answer a question with a question. Do you believe that Israel has a strategy and is pursuing a course of action that will succeed, or don’t you? And if so, why would they then have to worry about Hamas infilitrating the Palestinian population? THEN you can give me a question.

I think they’re dealing with an insane death cult and there are no good options.

But I assume you have ingenious ideas.

Why is razing Gaza, a place that is 50% children, and killing thousands upon thousands of innocent people the best of their bad options?

What’s your plan?

Why do I have to have a plan? I am just a civilian without an army and intelligence service at my disposal. You would think with everything Israel has, they would be able to come up with a plan that someone, anyone, can believe in. I guess they just drank their own kool aid for too long. Even YOU don’t think they will succeed as you try to defend their tactics. They are just taking Hamas’ bait.

Sometimes when you make a series of awful decisions you go down a path that will end badly no matter what you do next, and it is no one’s fault but your own. Israel is going down that path.

So easy when you’re sitting in your Bethesda house. So goddamn easy.

So mean and nasty with the "Bethesda house" line.

Once they run out of talking points they get mad and call names. At least I am not anti-Semitic, I’ve just committed the cardinal sin of potentially living in Bethesda.

No, you’re just a charlatan who pretends to care about humanity when really you’re willing to throw the lives of Israeli Jews away.

Who said ANYTHING about throwing the lives of Israeli Jews away? YOU are the one who essentially conceded that THOUSANDS of Palestinian lives are being thrown away in a futile effort to eliminate Hamas, and YOU are the one who seems ok with that. It’s not a hypothetical- people are dying for no reason, by your own admission, and you are TOTALLY OK with it.

I NEVER SAID I AM OK WITH IT.

I have said that many times.

I have explained how withdrawing US support would result in Israel vs much of the region.

I have explained how a one state solution without getting rid of Hamas puts Israeli Jews in danger.

People have said “I don’t care.”

So if Hamas is a threat to Israel, couldn’t Israel absorb the Palestinians in the West Bank and give them citizenship? They never voted for Hamas. Then Israel would get all the territory it wants in the West Bank.

You guys act like they’re just pets. I’ve yet to meet a Palestinian who thought they’d be safe in Israel. They’d be targeted, harassed, or murdered. I’d never want to subject myself to that much oppression, though really they’re not safe from Israel now either

And how many Palestinians have you asked? 20% of Israel’s population is Arab, so at least those Palestinians feel safe.

I’ve actually met a Palestinian academic who very passionately believes that it is time for a one state solution.

And that 20% are treated like second class citizens. Israel is a deeply racist country. Every Palestinian I know feels that way. I know zero who think otherwise. And same for my extended family in other Arab countries. We talk about this a lot

Do you believe Israel has a right to exist?

Oh god. Here you pro-apartheid folks go again. We must have a mandatory preamble to everything. How about all you pro-apartheid era start with whether you believe ethnic cleansing is justified by Israel and whether “never again “ only applies to European Jews, huh?

Answer that and lead with it every time

I asked you a question first. Stop deflecting.

Your question is BS pro apartheid censorship. When you don’t have a point, you pivot and demand that everyone swear allegiance to Israel. It’s fascist tactics and I’m over it. You guys have been exposed

Do you support genocide as long as the dead are brown?

Arabs aren’t brown, dumbass.

You clearly don’t know any Arabs from your home in Maryland. My family all disagree with you, but rich white ladies csll the shots, right?

I’m not white, but nice try.

Palestinian Arabs and Israeli Jews look nearly identical.

Israel is being controlled and operated by European Jews who survived the European genocide not Sephardic Jews.

80% of all Jews are Ashkenazi. That’s what you mean with your pejorative “European.” We are half European, half Middle Eastern.

Yes. The middle eastern half is closely genetically related to Palestinians. And the European half is bc of inter-breeding with European countries. What does this mean to you? To me it means that Palestinians have ancient historical ties to the land that Israel sits on today. I’m not saying Israel shouldn’t exist. But I am saying that Palestinians have a right to exist as well. Do I know how to achieve this - no. But I do know that co tinier bombing and killing people with a right to live where they are living is not the answer.

And Jews don’t have historical ties to the land? What BS that you acknowledge one but not the other.

Please read my post again. That is not what o wrote. I said “I’m not saying Israel shouldn’t exist. But I am saying that Palestinians have a right to exist also.” In other words. I’m acknowledging both have rights and both populations are closely genetically related (except the Jewish half that left and interbred). It seems you are the one acknowledging one and not the other of you mean that Palestinians don’t have a right to the land but Jews do?

You accuse Jews of interbreeding?