My kid is in a class with a chair thrower

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:*you go private

You keep saying this but here’s the flaw with this logic: We are already losing too many teachers who don’t want to be abused. If all the regular kids leave too because of a few abusive classmates then you will be left with a place that NO parent would want to send their kids to. It doesn’t serve anyone’s interest to let things get to this point. There has to be more balance.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:*you go private

You keep saying this but here’s the flaw with this logic: We are already losing too many teachers who don’t want to be abused. If all the regular kids leave too because of a few abusive classmates then you will be left with a place that NO parent would want to send their kids to. It doesn’t serve anyone’s interest to let things get to this point. There has to be more balance.

Case in point: https://www.nbcwashington.com/news/local/prince-georges-county/prince-georges-county-teacher-pushes-for-classroom-safety-after-alleged-attack-by-students/3416353/?amp=1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:*you go private

You keep saying this but here’s the flaw with this logic: We are already losing too many teachers who don’t want to be abused. If all the regular kids leave too because of a few abusive classmates then you will be left with a place that NO parent would want to send their kids to. It doesn’t serve anyone’s interest to let things get to this point. There has to be more balance.

This has already happened.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People can just sue the county and then get the county to pay for their private school for their kid who isn’t doing
well being mainstreamed. This is happening — even for people who can afford the private on their own. The system is so broken — for all kids!

What a hollow victory to spend years fighting the school system while a kid languishes in a broken system. You don't get a do over once those years are lost.

way to miss the point. people sue because they *cannot afford or even access* the SN school. save your ire for the schools that don’t provide the proper services and placements.

Oh I guess you missed this part: even for people who can afford the private on their own
Those people are fools.

It’s a tiny, tiny percentage that can afford it. And as you have been told repeatedly- some of these schools don’t even take private pay. Even if they do, you still have to apply, and they may mot take your kid. and in many places the SN schools don’t even exist.

I know all you want is for SN kids to go away, but the problem is public schools failing to follow the law.

Not wanting my child in a class with a violent student =/= wanting SN kids to go away.

Blaming the parents, saying people who can’t afford 80k/year private schooling, arguing that public schools shouldn’t even exist, etc. sends a pretty clear message that you just want these kids gone and you don’t care where they go.

So, you are okay with violent children endangering others? In fact, you appear to be advocating for it. You think that other parents should just happily allow it because you won't take responsibility for your child's actions?

Omg talking to posters like you is like trying to get through to a brick wall.

Of course I’m not okay with it. And I don’t have a child throwing chairs so no, I don’t have any responsibility to take for this.

But I’m capable of carrying two thoughts in my head. I can both believe that the status quo isn’t working and *also* think we need to better serve these violent children without the need to blame the parents.

Why are you unable to manage complex thinking?

NP here, and the idea that parents are not responsible for the minors' actions is unreasonable.

I hope you have typically developing kids, or your kids will be abused by you.

I doubt he’d be able to stay around long enough to abuse them. He’d just abandon them, just as he’s proposing that schools and society do.

Parents need to know their kids and not put them in unsafe situations. It traumatizes both the kids and their classmates. Set them up to succeed, get them therapy, and do the right thing. In-person public school is a bad decision for many kids with behavior issues.

Even when it is a “bad decision,” it may be the best or only option. In many cases these are kids the school is capable of handling— the school may just not be willing to provide the necessary supports. And in cases where the school legitimately can’t handle them, the parents may be struggling to get the school to agree to an alternative placement.

Or, equally likely, the parents are actively fighting the school and refusing any sort of alternative placement, because they are dead set on the idea that their child would be fine if only everyone catered to them.

No, that’s not equally likely. The school district does not want to send kids to self-contained programs, partly because of LRE, but mostly because of cost and resources. And I don’t know anyone that’s fought a placement to a more supportive environment after attempts to bring in supports to the general education environment have failed. But many, many parents of kids with special needs can describe how hard it is to get the schools to provide those supports in the first place.

It’s still not equally likely, but there are some parents in denial about the situation and refuse assessments and special education services. And that’s a horrible situation for all the kids involved.

This routinely happens in top school districts. The parents, often well educated white collar workers, are in denial about the severity of their child’s condition. They don’t like the stigma, they don’t want their kids to be segregated, they are thinking about college admissions. Many believe with therapy and age they will “grow out of it”. It is mind boggling.

Liar. I’ve literally never heard of this. Read the SN board. It’s the opposite- parents fighting to get kids into Bridge or the high functioning Autism programs in MoCo.

Well, you have very limited knowledge. This happens routinely. In fact my neighbors, HHI $1M+, are paying 75k for top boarding school for their neurotypical kid and paid thousands to a lawyer to keep their SN, on the spectrum kid in public. Requested and got an Aide plus tons of other accommodations. A good private will not have the SN kid and the parents refuse spec ed school.

You have zero clue. Sounds like they did a good job getting what their kid needs.

You just proved my point. Almost all well to do parents of SN kids want a good public school with scaffolding. They are in denial and don’t want the stigma of segregated Sped Ed. You will say they know their kid better than me. Sure, but they also have a very biased perception.

Their daughter is in 8th grade and stims
a lot, sometimes throws tantrums. No clue how the other kids in her classes are coping.

Now I see you’re not even pretending this is about safety anymore.

[Anonymous]

There are 44 pages of fighting here, but the answer was in another thread about the “Quiet rooms.” Basically, school staff needs to be able to remove these kids so teaching can go on for the rest of the class. It would help the student in crisis to be removed and help the kids who have the right to learn in the classroom.

The ability of schools to take these kids out and go to a calm down room was removed because sometimes those rooms resulted in over punishment for some kids and a group of parents hated them and felt their child experienced abuse in them (Probably true in some cases).

I think those rooms are the solution still and the issues parents had with them need to be addressed rather than just taking all other kids out of the classroom. If a parent doesn’t want their kid in a quiet room, THEN the parent needs to pick the kid up and they can seek another placement. Having a quiet or calm down room is very important for kids with emotional regulation issues.

I think if you are a parent with a typical kid and don’t like what is happening currently with the class leaving, start advocating for the use of calm down rooms again.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There are 44 pages of fighting here, but the answer was in another thread about the “Quiet rooms.” Basically, school staff needs to be able to remove these kids so teaching can go on for the rest of the class. It would help the student in crisis to be removed and help the kids who have the right to learn in the classroom.

The ability of schools to take these kids out and go to a calm down room was removed because sometimes those rooms resulted in over punishment for some kids and a group of parents hated them and felt their child experienced abuse in them (Probably true in some cases).

I think those rooms are the solution still and the issues parents had with them need to be addressed rather than just taking all other kids out of the classroom. If a parent doesn’t want their kid in a quiet room, THEN the parent needs to pick the kid up and they can seek another placement. Having a quiet or calm down room is very important for kids with emotional regulation issues.

I think if you are a parent with a typical kid and don’t like what is happening currently with the class leaving, start advocating for the use of calm down rooms again.

Quiet rooms are absolutely allowed. They just can’t lock a kid in a room by themselves.

I don't think you understand what was going on.

[Anonymous]

I thought quiet rooms were currently not allowed in FFX due to a court case. They exist in MCPS. The problem often is the ability to remove the violent child. No adult wants to get hurt or hurt a child. The key is to catch the behaviors before they escalate to a meltdown so a child can calmly walk to a calm down area. It’s really hard for 1 adult to catch the nuances of an impending meltdown if they have to teach and supervise 25 kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There are 44 pages of fighting here, but the answer was in another thread about the “Quiet rooms.” Basically, school staff needs to be able to remove these kids so teaching can go on for the rest of the class. It would help the student in crisis to be removed and help the kids who have the right to learn in the classroom.

The ability of schools to take these kids out and go to a calm down room was removed because sometimes those rooms resulted in over punishment for some kids and a group of parents hated them and felt their child experienced abuse in them (Probably true in some cases).

I think those rooms are the solution still and the issues parents had with them need to be addressed rather than just taking all other kids out of the classroom. If a parent doesn’t want their kid in a quiet room, THEN the parent needs to pick the kid up and they can seek another placement. Having a quiet or calm down room is very important for kids with emotional regulation issues.

I think if you are a parent with a typical kid and don’t like what is happening currently with the class leaving, start advocating for the use of calm down rooms again.

No, forcibly restraining and secluding kids is not the solution. It doesn’t help long term.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People can just sue the county and then get the county to pay for their private school for their kid who isn’t doing well being mainstreamed. This is happening — even for people who can afford the private on their own. The system is so broken — for all kids!

What a hollow victory to spend years fighting the school system while a kid languishes in a broken system. You don't get a do over once those years are lost.

way to miss the point. people sue because they *cannot afford or even access* the SN school. save your ire for the schools that don’t provide the proper services and placements.

Oh I guess you missed this part: even for people who can afford the private on their own
Those people are fools.

It’s a tiny, tiny percentage that can afford it. And as you have been told repeatedly- some of these schools don’t even take private pay. Even if they do, you still have to apply, and they may mot take your kid. and in many places the SN schools don’t even exist.

I know all you want is for SN kids to go away, but the problem is public schools failing to follow the law.

Not wanting my child in a class with a violent student =/= wanting SN kids to go away.

Blaming the parents, saying people who can’t afford 80k/year private schooling, arguing that public schools shouldn’t even exist, etc. sends a pretty clear message that you just want these kids gone and you don’t care where they go.

So, you are okay with violent children endangering others? In fact, you appear to be advocating for it. You think that other parents should just happily allow it because you won't take responsibility for your child's actions?

Omg talking to posters like you is like trying to get through to a brick wall.

Of course I’m not okay with it. And I don’t have a child throwing chairs so no, I don’t have any responsibility to take for this.

But I’m capable of carrying two thoughts in my head. I can both believe that the status quo isn’t working and *also* think we need to better serve these violent children without the need to blame the parents.

Why are you unable to manage complex thinking?

NP here, and the idea that parents are not responsible for the minors' actions is unreasonable.

I hope you have typically developing kids, or your kids will be abused by you.

I doubt he’d be able to stay around long enough to abuse them. He’d just abandon them, just as he’s proposing that schools and society do.

Parents need to know their kids and not put them in unsafe situations. It traumatizes both the kids and their classmates. Set them up to succeed, get them therapy, and do the right thing. In-person public school is a bad decision for many kids with behavior issues.

Even when it is a “bad decision,” it may be the best or only option. In many cases these are kids the school is capable of handling— the school may just not be willing to provide the necessary supports. And in cases where the school legitimately can’t handle them, the parents may be struggling to get the school to agree to an alternative placement.

Or, equally likely, the parents are actively fighting the school and refusing any sort of alternative placement, because they are dead set on the idea that their child would be fine if only everyone catered to them.

You think there’s an abundance of parents out there being offered special classroom placement and they’re fighting against that placement?

You’re so clearly out of touch with the SN community. I promise you school districts are not easily doling out alternative placements. If anything, parents are jumping through hoops to have their child placed. I don’t understand why you’re so obstinately obsessed with these kids and their families to the point of making false statements on an anonymous forum. It’s honestly getting a little creepy.

The flaw in your thinking is that these parents don't consider themselves part of the SN community and therefore don't participate in it. It's naive of you to think these parents don't exist. Teachers talk about it pretty frequently here. There are parents of special needs students who refuse to accept the label and fight against any alternative placement.

You’re so full of crap. If these parents don’t think their child has SN then the kid won’t have an IEP or anyone advocating for accommodations. Which means the school would be free to handle things as a disciplinary matter and could suspend or take other options that aren’t available for kids with IEPs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People can just sue the county and then get the county to pay for their private school for their kid who isn’t doing
well being mainstreamed. This is happening — even for people who can afford the private on their own. The system is so broken — for all kids!

What a hollow victory to spend years fighting the school system while a kid languishes in a broken system. You don't get a do over once those years are lost.

way to miss the point. people sue because they *cannot afford or even access* the SN school. save your ire for the schools that don’t provide the proper services and placements.

Oh I guess you missed this part: even for people who can afford the private on their own
Those people are fools.

It’s a tiny, tiny percentage that can afford it. And as you have been told repeatedly- some of these schools don’t even take private pay. Even if they do, you still have to apply, and they may mot take your kid. and in many places the SN schools don’t even exist.

I know all you want is for SN kids to go away, but the problem is public schools failing to follow the law.

Not wanting my child in a class with a violent student =/= wanting SN kids to go away.

Blaming the parents, saying people who can’t afford 80k/year private schooling, arguing that public schools shouldn’t even exist, etc. sends a pretty clear message that you just want these kids gone and you don’t care where they go.

So, you are okay with violent children endangering others? In fact, you appear to be advocating for it. You think that other parents should just happily allow it because you won't take responsibility for your child's actions?

Omg talking to posters like you is like trying to get through to a brick wall.

Of course I’m not okay with it. And I don’t have a child throwing chairs so no, I don’t have any responsibility to take for this.

But I’m capable of carrying two thoughts in my head. I can both believe that the status quo isn’t working and *also* think we need to better serve these violent children without the need to blame the parents.

Why are you unable to manage complex thinking?

NP here, and the idea that parents are not responsible for the minors' actions is unreasonable.

I hope you have typically developing kids, or your kids will be abused by you.

I doubt he’d be able to stay around long enough to abuse them. He’d just abandon them, just as he’s proposing that schools and society do.

Parents need to know their kids and not put them in unsafe situations. It traumatizes both the kids and their classmates. Set them up to succeed, get them therapy, and do the right thing. In-person public school is a bad decision for many kids with behavior issues.

Even when it is a “bad decision,” it may be the best or only option. In many cases these are kids the school is capable of handling— the school may just not be willing to provide the necessary supports. And in cases where the school legitimately can’t handle them, the parents may be struggling to get the school to agree to an alternative placement.

Or, equally likely, the parents are actively fighting the school and refusing any sort of alternative placement, because they are dead set on the idea that their child would be fine if only everyone catered to them.

No, that’s not equally likely. The school district does not want to send kids to self-contained programs, partly because of LRE, but mostly because of cost and resources. And I don’t know anyone that’s fought a placement to a more supportive environment after attempts to bring in supports to the general education environment have failed. But many, many parents of kids with special needs can describe how hard it is to get the schools to provide those supports in the first place.

It’s still not equally likely, but there are some parents in denial about the situation and refuse assessments and special education services. And that’s a horrible situation for all the kids involved.

This routinely happens in top school districts. The parents, often well educated white collar workers, are in denial about the severity of their child’s condition. They don’t like the stigma, they don’t want their kids to be segregated, they are thinking about college admissions. Many believe with therapy and age they will “grow out of it”. It is mind boggling.

Liar. I’ve literally never heard of this. Read the SN board. It’s the opposite- parents fighting to get kids into Bridge or the high functioning Autism programs in MoCo.

Well, you have very limited knowledge. This happens routinely. In fact my neighbors, HHI $1M+, are paying 75k for top boarding school for their neurotypical kid and paid thousands to a lawyer to keep their SN, on the spectrum kid in public. Requested and got an Aide plus tons of other accommodations. A good private will not have the SN kid and the parents refuse spec ed school.

So you’re taking this one family whose demographics are far outside the norm (HHI of $1m + and ability to pay for boarding school) and extrapolating that as some sort of trend in an attempt to gaslight parents of SN kids.

Geeze you are exhausting lady.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:*you go private

You keep saying this but here’s the flaw with this logic: We are already losing too many teachers who don’t want to be abused. If all the regular kids leave too because of a few abusive classmates then you will be left with a place that NO parent would want to send their kids to. It doesn’t serve anyone’s interest to let things get to this point. There has to be more balance.

all the “regular kids” are not going to leave. because you are exaggerating what’s actually going on.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People can just sue the county and then get the county to pay for their private school for their kid who isn’t doing well being mainstreamed. This is happening — even for people who can afford the private on their own. The system is so broken — for all kids!

What a hollow victory to spend years fighting the school system while a kid languishes in a broken system. You don't get a do over once those years are lost.

way to miss the point. people sue because they *cannot afford or even access* the SN school. save your ire for the schools that don’t provide the proper services and placements.

Oh I guess you missed this part: even for people who can afford the private on their own
Those people are fools.

It’s a tiny, tiny percentage that can afford it. And as you have been told repeatedly- some of these schools don’t even take private pay. Even if they do, you still have to apply, and they may mot take your kid. and in many places the SN schools don’t even exist.

I know all you want is for SN kids to go away, but the problem is public schools failing to follow the law.

Not wanting my child in a class with a violent student =/= wanting SN kids to go away.

Blaming the parents, saying people who can’t afford 80k/year private schooling, arguing that public schools shouldn’t even exist, etc. sends a pretty clear message that you just want these kids gone and you don’t care where they go.

So, you are okay with violent children endangering others? In fact, you appear to be advocating for it. You think that other parents should just happily allow it because you won't take responsibility for your child's actions?

Omg talking to posters like you is like trying to get through to a brick wall.

Of course I’m not okay with it. And I don’t have a child throwing chairs so no, I don’t have any responsibility to take for this.

But I’m capable of carrying two thoughts in my head. I can both believe that the status quo isn’t working and *also* think we need to better serve these violent children without the need to blame the parents.

Why are you unable to manage complex thinking?

NP here, and the idea that parents are not responsible for the minors' actions is unreasonable.

I hope you have typically developing kids, or your kids will be abused by you.

I doubt he’d be able to stay around long enough to abuse them. He’d just abandon them, just as he’s proposing that schools and society do.

Parents need to know their kids and not put them in unsafe situations. It traumatizes both the kids and their classmates. Set them up to succeed, get them therapy, and do the right thing. In-person public school is a bad decision for many kids with behavior issues.

Even when it is a “bad decision,” it may be the best or only option. In many cases these are kids the school is capable of handling— the school may just not be willing to provide the necessary supports. And in cases where the school legitimately can’t handle them, the parents may be struggling to get the school to agree to an alternative placement.

Or, equally likely, the parents are actively fighting the school and refusing any sort of alternative placement, because they are dead set on the idea that their child would be fine if only everyone catered to them.

You think there’s an abundance of parents out there being offered special classroom placement and they’re fighting against that placement?

You’re so clearly out of touch with the SN community. I promise you school districts are not easily doling out alternative placements. If anything, parents are jumping through hoops to have their child placed. I don’t understand why you’re so obstinately obsessed with these kids and their families to the point of making false statements on an anonymous forum. It’s honestly getting a little creepy.

The flaw in your thinking is that these parents don't consider themselves part of the SN community and therefore don't participate in it. It's naive of you to think these parents don't exist. Teachers talk about it pretty frequently here. There are parents of special needs students who refuse to accept the label and fight against any alternative placement.

You’re so full of crap. If these parents don’t think their child has SN then the kid won’t have an IEP or anyone advocating for accommodations. Which means the school would be free to handle things as a disciplinary matter and could suspend or take other options that aren’t available for kids with IEPs.

this. and as well - schools CAN put alternative placements and IEPs into place even against parent’s wishes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:*you go private

You keep saying this but here’s the flaw with this logic: We are already losing too many teachers who don’t want to be abused. If all the regular kids leave too because of a few abusive classmates then you will be left with a place that NO parent would want to send their kids to. It doesn’t serve anyone’s interest to let things get to this point. There has to be more balance.

all the “regular kids” are not going to leave. because you are exaggerating what’s actually going on.

The ones who can afford it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People can just sue the county and then get the county to pay for their private school for their kid who isn’t doing well being mainstreamed. This is happening — even for people who can afford the private on their own. The system is so broken — for all kids!

What a hollow victory to spend years fighting the school system while a kid languishes in a broken system. You don't get a do over once those years are lost.

way to miss the point. people sue because they *cannot afford or even access* the SN school. save your ire for the schools that don’t provide the proper services and placements.

Oh I guess you missed this part: even for people who can afford the private on their own
Those people are fools.

It’s a tiny, tiny percentage that can afford it. And as you have been told repeatedly- some of these schools don’t even take private pay. Even if they do, you still have to apply, and they may mot take your kid. and in many places the SN schools don’t even exist.

I know all you want is for SN kids to go away, but the problem is public schools failing to follow the law.

Hilarious as my kid is one of those SN kids. But the public is a joke so we don't go there.

Does your kid have major externalizing behaviors?

No, so my kid is not a threat to others but can get extremely distracted when there is chaos in the background and can't focus or be in a position to learn. There is a kid in their class now with an aide and that child also doesn't act out in a major distracting violent way. So it's just avoiding SN kids but seeking out an appropriate environment so they can succeed as well without being ignored or lost in the shuffle. You get what you pay for.

my point is that it is not possible and/or affordable to find a private school for a SN kid with behaviors. not sure why that is so hard for you to understand.

My point which you will not understand is for wealthy people with options then need to exercise those options. We can talk past each other all day long because we're not talking about the same thing which you can't accept for some reason.

Why the f do you think it is relevant to post about how the super wealthy should handle SN? You may as well post about how we should all have magic fairies come teach our kids to behave.

And FWIW this stuff isn’t simple for rich people. You actually can’t always throw money at it. And it can be a trap too - there are schools that are happy to take your money and abuse your kid (like Paris Hilton).

Because someone posted pages back about wealthy parents fighting the schools about supports, aides, etc etc when they could meet their kids needs on their own but refuse to because of the flimsy "free and appropriate" promise. I wouldn't play games with my kids education like that. I think that's a waste of time and resources and arguing with me back and forth about what middle class people do instead is really wasting your time. I said what I said about wealthy people and their resources.

We get it! You have a bone to pick with some particular wealthy people you know and have decided to spend literal PAGES derailing this discussion.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are 44 pages of fighting here, but the answer was in another thread about the “Quiet rooms.” Basically, school staff needs to be able to remove these kids so teaching can go on for the rest of the class. It would help the student in crisis to be removed and help the kids who have the right to learn in the classroom.

The ability of schools to take these kids out and go to a calm down room was removed because sometimes those rooms resulted in over punishment for some kids and a group of parents hated them and felt their child experienced abuse in them (Probably true in some cases).

I think those rooms are the solution still and the issues parents had with them need to be addressed rather than just taking all other kids out of the classroom. If a parent doesn’t want their kid in a quiet room, THEN the parent needs to pick the kid up and they can seek another placement. Having a quiet or calm down room is very important for kids with emotional regulation issues.

I think if you are a parent with a typical kid and don’t like what is happening currently with the class leaving, start advocating for the use of calm down rooms again.

No, forcibly restraining and secluding kids is not the solution. It doesn’t help long term.

Removing a dangerous child to a quiet room helps the other students who would otherwise be unsafe or have their education disrupted. But you have made it clear you don't care about them.