Extreme resentment over mental load

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The posters suggesting to not not barely celebrate Christmas or birthdays aren’t very helpful.

You’re also not taking the rest of life into consideration. I can live in a $2 million dollar house, employ a cleaning lady, work a demanding job, exercise etc - but I’m going to drop the ball on Christmas and/or a birthday for my mental health?

Someone who is not celebrating Christmas for their child (assuming you’re Christian) is practically homeless or suffering from severe mental illness.

This post sounds like mental illness. What on earth?

+1! Figure out what "celebrating Christmas" means to you. If it means spending 10,000 hours decorating and buying gifts, and you don't have 10,000 hours to spend, you'll either need to take time from other things, outsource, or not spend 10,000 hours on Christmas. This isn't rocket science. My parents had demanding jobs and we had no other family, so they spend 2 hours decorating and gave my sibling and I one gift each, but that still counted as Christmas because we were celebrating together.

My parents were immigrants who worked themselves to the bone. We'd haul down the plastic Christmas tree from the attic, my brother and I would wrap the lights and tinsel, hang the few ornaments while my dad ran to the toy store to get a He-Man action figure for my brother and a My Little Pony for me. My mom would wrap them and stick them under the tree, and call it a day. Good times, and great memories.

Sounds to me like both of your parents participated.
I think OP is resentful because she has to do everything alone.

OP is not doing everything alone, though. If OP was the mom in the above example, she would be whining about having to remind her DH that it was time to haul the tree down from the attic and ask him to run to the store for the gifts. Her DH does participate. She is whining about her “mental load” which is not really a thing if your actual concern is the kids.

Okay. I literally don’t know anyone who whines because their husband immediately does the thing they asked as soon as they ask and with enthusiasm.
This would be like a man complaining that he always has to initiate sex, but every time he does, his wife gives him an enthusiastic blowjob.

What women complain about is more the equivalent of a man complaining that he has to initiate sex, and every time he does, she will lay there like a starfish and ask how much longer it’s going to take.

But that’s *literally* what this thread is about. Move the goalposts all you want, you’re still wrong.

Even in a modern marriage with men actively participating, it’s almost always up to the DW to assign tasks and make all household decisions. Yet my DH can manage a complex job with many direct reports. I don’t believe he can’t manage buying teacher gifts or signing up for aftercare. Instead, he doesn’t care and knows I’ll do it. What this means is that I have an extra burden he doesn’t have - all the admin work. We both have FT jobs and present for the kids and then I have an admin job on top of it all.

Men are great at prioritizing themselves and their careers.

And you knew this when you married him. How was his father? Did you think he was magically going to be different from the way you and he were brought up? You chose to marry him and accept this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The posters suggesting to not not barely celebrate Christmas or birthdays aren’t very helpful.

You’re also not taking the rest of life into consideration. I can live in a $2 million dollar house, employ a cleaning lady, work a demanding job, exercise etc - but I’m going to drop the ball on Christmas and/or a birthday for my mental health?

Someone who is not celebrating Christmas for their child (assuming you’re Christian) is practically homeless or suffering from severe mental illness.

This post sounds like mental illness. What on earth?

+1! Figure out what "celebrating Christmas" means to you. If it means spending 10,000 hours decorating and buying gifts, and you don't have 10,000 hours to spend, you'll either need to take time from other things, outsource, or not spend 10,000 hours on Christmas. This isn't rocket science. My parents had demanding jobs and we had no other family, so they spend 2 hours decorating and gave my sibling and I one gift each, but that still counted as Christmas because we were celebrating together.

My parents were immigrants who worked themselves to the bone. We'd haul down the plastic Christmas tree from the attic, my brother and I would wrap the lights and tinsel, hang the few ornaments while my dad ran to the toy store to get a He-Man action figure for my brother and a My Little Pony for me. My mom would wrap them and stick them under the tree, and call it a day. Good times, and great memories.

Sounds to me like both of your parents participated.
I think OP is resentful because she has to do everything alone.

Would OP be satisfied if all her DH did was a last minute Target run for action figures?

I think she would be satisfied if he volunteered to go and he knew what he wanted to get.

She said that she is upset that he didn’t volunteer to do anything.

We have no idea what happened behind the scenes with PP’s parents. We have no idea if her mother told him to go to Target and what to buy.

Action figure PP here. My dad definitely knew what to buy, because he would take the few minutes to notice us and the toys with which we played. That's why I have good memories. Christmas was that time they could take a break and show us that they did know who we were, even though they were normally away so much working. It didn't take a huge amount of time or money.

No offense, PP, but you probably have no idea about the Christmas conversations and delegating that may or may not have occurred between your parents. The point IMO is that they made it work in order to give you a good childhood and happy memories. Who CARES if Mom was the “project manager” or Dad was, or if they both magically manage to do exactly the right 50% with no reminders or delegating whatsoever?

What a strange response. You don’t think that as a kid I’d know if my dad knows what toys I play with? Kids aren’t dumb. Of course I wouldn’t have known all the conversations and delegations, but I would certainly notice if all the work is primarily done by one parent and the second has no clue what is going on. And I would definitely notice if the parent doing all the work resented the situation. That sort of thing is extremely obvious to kids because parents usually do a poor job of hiding it.

DP. The standards on fathers today are higher than our own fathers (as it should be). I doubt mothers who were raising kids in the He-man/Little Pony would be as resentful for the mental load. What would your mother say? I had to say - you go to Kmart and buy actions figures, I’ll finish dinner and wrap when you get home. He didn’t just volunteer? Or know which task to take? Would she resent that? Seems unlikely for that generation.

But that’s what we’re talking about today. Also - children are very naive about the behind the scenes discussions between parents.

My mother was an 80s housewife without a job. She DGAF if she had to buy Christmas presents and plan the vacation. That was her job. Now I have a FT job AND still have to manage the vacation and buy presents.

You don't need a full time job. You want it. You don't need Christmas presents and vacation. You want them. You saw what it took for your parents to make marriage work but you decided you were smarter and better and could work miracles. Who did you model your marriage after? Some TV show couple? You are not superwoman, and your DH is not superman. Welcome to reality!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The posters suggesting to not not barely celebrate Christmas or birthdays aren’t very helpful.

You’re also not taking the rest of life into consideration. I can live in a $2 million dollar house, employ a cleaning lady, work a demanding job, exercise etc - but I’m going to drop the ball on Christmas and/or a birthday for my mental health?

Someone who is not celebrating Christmas for their child (assuming you’re Christian) is practically homeless or suffering from severe mental illness.

This post sounds like mental illness. What on earth?

+1! Figure out what "celebrating Christmas" means to you. If it means spending 10,000 hours decorating and buying gifts, and you don't have 10,000 hours to spend, you'll either need to take time from other things, outsource, or not spend 10,000 hours on Christmas. This isn't rocket science. My parents had demanding jobs and we had no other family, so they spend 2 hours decorating and gave my sibling and I one gift each, but that still counted as Christmas because we were celebrating together.

My parents were immigrants who worked themselves to the bone. We'd haul down the plastic Christmas tree from the attic, my brother and I would wrap the lights and tinsel, hang the few ornaments while my dad ran to the toy store to get a He-Man action figure for my brother and a My Little Pony for me. My mom would wrap them and stick them under the tree, and call it a day. Good times, and great memories.

Sounds to me like both of your parents participated.
I think OP is resentful because she has to do everything alone.

Would OP be satisfied if all her DH did was a last minute Target run for action figures?

I think she would be satisfied if he volunteered to go and he knew what he wanted to get.

She said that she is upset that he didn’t volunteer to do anything.

We have no idea what happened behind the scenes with PP’s parents. We have no idea if her mother told him to go to Target and what to buy.

Action figure PP here. My dad definitely knew what to buy, because he would take the few minutes to notice us and the toys with which we played. That's why I have good memories. Christmas was that time they could take a break and show us that they did know who we were, even though they were normally away so much working. It didn't take a huge amount of time or money.

No offense, PP, but you probably have no idea about the Christmas conversations and delegating that may or may not have occurred between your parents. The point IMO is that they made it work in order to give you a good childhood and happy memories. Who CARES if Mom was the “project manager” or Dad was, or if they both magically manage to do exactly the right 50% with no reminders or delegating whatsoever?

What a strange response. You don’t think that as a kid I’d know if my dad knows what toys I play with? Kids aren’t dumb. Of course I wouldn’t have known all the conversations and delegations, but I would certainly notice if all the work is primarily done by one parent and the second has no clue what is going on. And I would definitely notice if the parent doing all the work resented the situation. That sort of thing is extremely obvious to kids because parents usually do a poor job of hiding it.

DP. The standards on fathers today are higher than our own fathers (as it should be). I doubt mothers who were raising kids in the He-man/Little Pony would be as resentful for the mental load. What would your mother say? I had to say - you go to Kmart and buy actions figures, I’ll finish dinner and wrap when you get home. He didn’t just volunteer? Or know which task to take? Would she resent that? Seems unlikely for that generation.

But that’s what we’re talking about today. Also - children are very naive about the behind the scenes discussions between parents.

My mother was an 80s housewife without a job. She DGAF if she had to buy Christmas presents and plan the vacation. That was her job. Now I have a FT job AND still have to manage the vacation and buy presents.

You don't need a full time job. You want it. You don't need Christmas presents and vacation. You want them. You saw what it took for your parents to make marriage work but you decided you were smarter and better and could work miracles. Who did you model your marriage after? Some TV show couple? You are not superwoman, and your DH is not superman. Welcome to reality!

Uh, her parents had Christmas presents and vacation, too.

[Anonymous]

i've accepted that I carry all the mental labor while I am also the primary breadwinner. But I assign him all the stuff I dont want to do. At least that is one benefit!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The posters suggesting to not not barely celebrate Christmas or birthdays aren’t very helpful.

You’re also not taking the rest of life into consideration. I can live in a $2 million dollar house, employ a cleaning lady, work a demanding job, exercise etc - but I’m going to drop the ball on Christmas and/or a birthday for my mental health?

Someone who is not celebrating Christmas for their child (assuming you’re Christian) is practically homeless or suffering from severe mental illness.

This post sounds like mental illness. What on earth?

+1! Figure out what "celebrating Christmas" means to you. If it means spending 10,000 hours decorating and buying gifts, and you don't have 10,000 hours to spend, you'll either need to take time from other things, outsource, or not spend 10,000 hours on Christmas. This isn't rocket science. My parents had demanding jobs and we had no other family, so they spend 2 hours decorating and gave my sibling and I one gift each, but that still counted as Christmas because we were celebrating together.

My parents were immigrants who worked themselves to the bone. We'd haul down the plastic Christmas tree from the attic, my brother and I would wrap the lights and tinsel, hang the few ornaments while my dad ran to the toy store to get a He-Man action figure for my brother and a My Little Pony for me. My mom would wrap them and stick them under the tree, and call it a day. Good times, and great memories.

Sounds to me like both of your parents participated.
I think OP is resentful because she has to do everything alone.

Would OP be satisfied if all her DH did was a last minute Target run for action figures?

I think she would be satisfied if he volunteered to go and he knew what he wanted to get.

She said that she is upset that he didn’t volunteer to do anything.

We have no idea what happened behind the scenes with PP’s parents. We have no idea if her mother told him to go to Target and what to buy.

Action figure PP here. My dad definitely knew what to buy, because he would take the few minutes to notice us and the toys with which we played. That's why I have good memories. Christmas was that time they could take a break and show us that they did know who we were, even though they were normally away so much working. It didn't take a huge amount of time or money.

No offense, PP, but you probably have no idea about the Christmas conversations and delegating that may or may not have occurred between your parents. The point IMO is that they made it work in order to give you a good childhood and happy memories. Who CARES if Mom was the “project manager” or Dad was, or if they both magically manage to do exactly the right 50% with no reminders or delegating whatsoever?

What a strange response. You don’t think that as a kid I’d know if my dad knows what toys I play with? Kids aren’t dumb. Of course I wouldn’t have known all the conversations and delegations, but I would certainly notice if all the work is primarily done by one parent and the second has no clue what is going on. And I would definitely notice if the parent doing all the work resented the situation. That sort of thing is extremely obvious to kids because parents usually do a poor job of hiding it.

DP. The standards on fathers today are higher than our own fathers (as it should be). I doubt mothers who were raising kids in the He-man/Little Pony would be as resentful for the mental load. What would your mother say? I had to say - you go to Kmart and buy actions figures, I’ll finish dinner and wrap when you get home. He didn’t just volunteer? Or know which task to take? Would she resent that? Seems unlikely for that generation.

But that’s what we’re talking about today. Also - children are very naive about the behind the scenes discussions between parents.

My mother was an 80s housewife without a job. She DGAF if she had to buy Christmas presents and plan the vacation. That was her job. Now I have a FT job AND still have to manage the vacation and buy presents.

You don't need a full time job. You want it. You don't need Christmas presents and vacation. You want them. You saw what it took for your parents to make marriage work but you decided you were smarter and better and could work miracles. Who did you model your marriage after? Some TV show couple? You are not superwoman, and your DH is not superman. Welcome to reality!

I'm with you on the agency argument, for the most part, but honestly? If you want to have kids and own a home in DC, either your spouse has to be crazy wealthy, or you both have to work. The diminished mental load from working part-time vs. full is negligible, as you still have to coordinate schedules, budget for work-related expenses, etc. The alternative is not working outside the home at all and staying home as an "80s housewife" or the like. It's not "without a job" but it's without paid employment and the financial options and self-esteem that go with having a salary of your own.

In short, there still isn't a great option for women. We need financial incentives and benefits for staying at home to raise our children ourselves. Never gonna happen.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The posters suggesting to not not barely celebrate Christmas or birthdays aren’t very helpful.

You’re also not taking the rest of life into consideration. I can live in a $2 million dollar house, employ a cleaning lady, work a demanding job, exercise etc - but I’m going to drop the ball on Christmas and/or a birthday for my mental health?

Someone who is not celebrating Christmas for their child (assuming you’re Christian) is practically homeless or suffering from severe mental illness.

This post sounds like mental illness. What on earth?

+1! Figure out what "celebrating Christmas" means to you. If it means spending 10,000 hours decorating and buying gifts, and you don't have 10,000 hours to spend, you'll either need to take time from other things, outsource, or not spend 10,000 hours on Christmas. This isn't rocket science. My parents had demanding jobs and we had no other family, so they spend 2 hours decorating and gave my sibling and I one gift each, but that still counted as Christmas because we were celebrating together.

My parents were immigrants who worked themselves to the bone. We'd haul down the plastic Christmas tree from the attic, my brother and I would wrap the lights and tinsel, hang the few ornaments while my dad ran to the toy store to get a He-Man action figure for my brother and a My Little Pony for me. My mom would wrap them and stick them under the tree, and call it a day. Good times, and great memories.

Sounds to me like both of your parents participated.
I think OP is resentful because she has to do everything alone.

Would OP be satisfied if all her DH did was a last minute Target run for action figures?

I think she would be satisfied if he volunteered to go and he knew what he wanted to get.

She said that she is upset that he didn’t volunteer to do anything.

We have no idea what happened behind the scenes with PP’s parents. We have no idea if her mother told him to go to Target and what to buy.

Action figure PP here. My dad definitely knew what to buy, because he would take the few minutes to notice us and the toys with which we played. That's why I have good memories. Christmas was that time they could take a break and show us that they did know who we were, even though they were normally away so much working. It didn't take a huge amount of time or money.

No offense, PP, but you probably have no idea about the Christmas conversations and delegating that may or may not have occurred between your parents. The point IMO is that they made it work in order to give you a good childhood and happy memories. Who CARES if Mom was the “project manager” or Dad was, or if they both magically manage to do exactly the right 50% with no reminders or delegating whatsoever?

What a strange response. You don’t think that as a kid I’d know if my dad knows what toys I play with? Kids aren’t dumb. Of course I wouldn’t have known all the conversations and delegations, but I would certainly notice if all the work is primarily done by one parent and the second has no clue what is going on. And I would definitely notice if the parent doing all the work resented the situation. That sort of thing is extremely obvious to kids because parents usually do a poor job of hiding it.

DP. The standards on fathers today are higher than our own fathers (as it should be). I doubt mothers who were raising kids in the He-man/Little Pony would be as resentful for the mental load. What would your mother say? I had to say - you go to Kmart and buy actions figures, I’ll finish dinner and wrap when you get home. He didn’t just volunteer? Or know which task to take? Would she resent that? Seems unlikely for that generation.

But that’s what we’re talking about today. Also - children are very naive about the behind the scenes discussions between parents.

My mother was an 80s housewife without a job. She DGAF if she had to buy Christmas presents and plan the vacation. That was her job. Now I have a FT job AND still have to manage the vacation and buy presents.

You don't need a full time job. You want it. You don't need Christmas presents and vacation. You want them. You saw what it took for your parents to make marriage work but you decided you were smarter and better and could work miracles. Who did you model your marriage after? Some TV show couple? You are not superwoman, and your DH is not superman. Welcome to reality!

Uh, her parents had Christmas presents and vacation, too.

And her mom stayed home.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The posters suggesting to not not barely celebrate Christmas or birthdays aren’t very helpful.

You’re also not taking the rest of life into consideration. I can live in a $2 million dollar house, employ a cleaning lady, work a demanding job, exercise etc - but I’m going to drop the ball on Christmas and/or a birthday for my mental health?

Someone who is not celebrating Christmas for their child (assuming you’re Christian) is practically homeless or suffering from severe mental illness.

This post sounds like mental illness. What on earth?

+1! Figure out what "celebrating Christmas" means to you. If it means spending 10,000 hours decorating and buying gifts, and you don't have 10,000 hours to spend, you'll either need to take time from other things, outsource, or not spend 10,000 hours on Christmas. This isn't rocket science. My parents had demanding jobs and we had no other family, so they spend 2 hours decorating and gave my sibling and I one gift each, but that still counted as Christmas because we were celebrating together.

My parents were immigrants who worked themselves to the bone. We'd haul down the plastic Christmas tree from the attic, my brother and I would wrap the lights and tinsel, hang the few ornaments while my dad ran to the toy store to get a He-Man action figure for my brother and a My Little Pony for me. My mom would wrap them and stick them under the tree, and call it a day. Good times, and great memories.

Sounds to me like both of your parents participated.
I think OP is resentful because she has to do everything alone.

Would OP be satisfied if all her DH did was a last minute Target run for action figures?

I think she would be satisfied if he volunteered to go and he knew what he wanted to get.

She said that she is upset that he didn’t volunteer to do anything.

We have no idea what happened behind the scenes with PP’s parents. We have no idea if her mother told him to go to Target and what to buy.

Action figure PP here. My dad definitely knew what to buy, because he would take the few minutes to notice us and the toys with which we played. That's why I have good memories. Christmas was that time they could take a break and show us that they did know who we were, even though they were normally away so much working. It didn't take a huge amount of time or money.

No offense, PP, but you probably have no idea about the Christmas conversations and delegating that may or may not have occurred between your parents. The point IMO is that they made it work in order to give you a good childhood and happy memories. Who CARES if Mom was the “project manager” or Dad was, or if they both magically manage to do exactly the right 50% with no reminders or delegating whatsoever?

What a strange response. You don’t think that as a kid I’d know if my dad knows what toys I play with? Kids aren’t dumb. Of course I wouldn’t have known all the conversations and delegations, but I would certainly notice if all the work is primarily done by one parent and the second has no clue what is going on. And I would definitely notice if the parent doing all the work resented the situation. That sort of thing is extremely obvious to kids because parents usually do a poor job of hiding it.

No one said that, dummy. I’m saying as a kid you wouldn’t know if your mom had to say to your dad, every single year, hey go to the store and get the kids some Christmas presents.

OP isn’t talking about doing all the work. She’s talking about the “mental load” of delegating half the work to her husband. And no, kids wouldn’t notice that.

Your response isn’t strange, it’s painfully stupid. Or just disingenuous.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The posters suggesting to not not barely celebrate Christmas or birthdays aren’t very helpful.

You’re also not taking the rest of life into consideration. I can live in a $2 million dollar house, employ a cleaning lady, work a demanding job, exercise etc - but I’m going to drop the ball on Christmas and/or a birthday for my mental health?

Someone who is not celebrating Christmas for their child (assuming you’re Christian) is practically homeless or suffering from severe mental illness.

This post sounds like mental illness. What on earth?

+1! Figure out what "celebrating Christmas" means to you. If it means spending 10,000 hours decorating and buying gifts, and you don't have 10,000 hours to spend, you'll either need to take time from other things, outsource, or not spend 10,000 hours on Christmas. This isn't rocket science. My parents had demanding jobs and we had no other family, so they spend 2 hours decorating and gave my sibling and I one gift each, but that still counted as Christmas because we were celebrating together.

My parents were immigrants who worked themselves to the bone. We'd haul down the plastic Christmas tree from the attic, my brother and I would wrap the lights and tinsel, hang the few ornaments while my dad ran to the toy store to get a He-Man action figure for my brother and a My Little Pony for me. My mom would wrap them and stick them under the tree, and call it a day. Good times, and great memories.

Sounds to me like both of your parents participated.
I think OP is resentful because she has to do everything alone.

OP is not doing everything alone, though. If OP was the mom in the above example, she would be whining about having to remind her DH that it was time to haul the tree down from the attic and ask him to run to the store for the gifts. Her DH does participate. She is whining about her “mental load” which is not really a thing if your actual concern is the kids.

Okay. I literally don’t know anyone who whines because their husband immediately does the thing they asked as soon as they ask and with enthusiasm.
This would be like a man complaining that he always has to initiate sex, but every time he does, his wife gives him an enthusiastic blowjob.

What women complain about is more the equivalent of a man complaining that he has to initiate sex, and every time he does, she will lay there like a starfish and ask how much longer it’s going to take.

But that’s *literally* what this thread is about. Move the goalposts all you want, you’re still wrong.

Even in a modern marriage with men actively participating, it’s almost always up to the DW to assign tasks and make all household decisions. Yet my DH can manage a complex job with many direct reports. I don’t believe he can’t manage buying teacher gifts or signing up for aftercare. Instead, he doesn’t care and knows I’ll do it. What this means is that I have an extra burden he doesn’t have - all the admin work. We both have FT jobs and present for the kids and then I have an admin job on top of it all.

Men are great at prioritizing themselves and their careers.

What’s your source for this claim? If it’s just unhappy shrews whining on the internet about how hard thinking is, be advised that you have a biased sample.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The posters suggesting to not not barely celebrate Christmas or birthdays aren’t very helpful.

You’re also not taking the rest of life into consideration. I can live in a $2 million dollar house, employ a cleaning lady, work a demanding job, exercise etc - but I’m going to drop the ball on Christmas and/or a birthday for my mental health?

Someone who is not celebrating Christmas for their child (assuming you’re Christian) is practically homeless or suffering from severe mental illness.

This post sounds like mental illness. What on earth?

+1! Figure out what "celebrating Christmas" means to you. If it means spending 10,000 hours decorating and buying gifts, and you don't have 10,000 hours to spend, you'll either need to take time from other things, outsource, or not spend 10,000 hours on Christmas. This isn't rocket science. My parents had demanding jobs and we had no other family, so they spend 2 hours decorating and gave my sibling and I one gift each, but that still counted as Christmas because we were celebrating together.

My parents were immigrants who worked themselves to the bone. We'd haul down the plastic Christmas tree from the attic, my brother and I would wrap the lights and tinsel, hang the few ornaments while my dad ran to the toy store to get a He-Man action figure for my brother and a My Little Pony for me. My mom would wrap them and stick them under the tree, and call it a day. Good times, and great memories.

Sounds to me like both of your parents participated.
I think OP is resentful because she has to do everything alone.

Would OP be satisfied if all her DH did was a last minute Target run for action figures?

I think she would be satisfied if he volunteered to go and he knew what he wanted to get.

She said that she is upset that he didn’t volunteer to do anything.

We have no idea what happened behind the scenes with PP’s parents. We have no idea if her mother told him to go to Target and what to buy.

Action figure PP here. My dad definitely knew what to buy, because he would take the few minutes to notice us and the toys with which we played. That's why I have good memories. Christmas was that time they could take a break and show us that they did know who we were, even though they were normally away so much working. It didn't take a huge amount of time or money.

No offense, PP, but you probably have no idea about the Christmas conversations and delegating that may or may not have occurred between your parents. The point IMO is that they made it work in order to give you a good childhood and happy memories. Who CARES if Mom was the “project manager” or Dad was, or if they both magically manage to do exactly the right 50% with no reminders or delegating whatsoever?

What a strange response. You don’t think that as a kid I’d know if my dad knows what toys I play with? Kids aren’t dumb. Of course I wouldn’t have known all the conversations and delegations, but I would certainly notice if all the work is primarily done by one parent and the second has no clue what is going on. And I would definitely notice if the parent doing all the work resented the situation. That sort of thing is extremely obvious to kids because parents usually do a poor job of hiding it.

DP. The standards on fathers today are higher than our own fathers (as it should be). I doubt mothers who were raising kids in the He-man/Little Pony would be as resentful for the mental load. What would your mother say? I had to say - you go to Kmart and buy actions figures, I’ll finish dinner and wrap when you get home. He didn’t just volunteer? Or know which task to take? Would she resent that? Seems unlikely for that generation.

But that’s what we’re talking about today. Also - children are very naive about the behind the scenes discussions between parents.

My mother was an 80s housewife without a job. She DGAF if she had to buy Christmas presents and plan the vacation. That was her job. Now I have a FT job AND still have to manage the vacation and buy presents.

You don't need a full time job. You want it. You don't need Christmas presents and vacation. You want them. You saw what it took for your parents to make marriage work but you decided you were smarter and better and could work miracles. Who did you model your marriage after? Some TV show couple? You are not superwoman, and your DH is not superman. Welcome to reality!

I'm with you on the agency argument, for the most part, but honestly? If you want to have kids and own a home in DC, either your spouse has to be crazy wealthy, or you both have to work. The diminished mental load from working part-time vs. full is negligible, as you still have to coordinate schedules, budget for work-related expenses, etc. The alternative is not working outside the home at all and staying home as an "80s housewife" or the like. It's not "without a job" but it's without paid employment and the financial options and self-esteem that go with having a salary of your own.

In short, there still isn't a great option for women. We need financial incentives and benefits for staying at home to raise our children ourselves. Never gonna happen.

Glad you acknowledged that these are all wants. You do not have to stay in DC. You do not need to have children. We can negotiate better financial incentives and benefits with our spouses in prenups, but we chose not to because we are desperate to get married and repeat cycles that we know were disadvantageous to our mothers.

For example, women can negotiate prenups stipulating that men give them 100k in a separate non- premarital account before each child is born so they have some independence while staying home at the early stages of child development. Options like this are rarely considered because women have chosen to be delusional about the reality of raising children in a capitalist society. It is easier to pretend that love will conquer all instead of negotiating marriage like the contract that it is.

Additionally, the price of housing in DC and other big cities is high because there is a demand at that price. If many families had only one working spouse, few will be able to pay those prices, and the prices will go down.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The posters suggesting to not not barely celebrate Christmas or birthdays aren’t very helpful.

You’re also not taking the rest of life into consideration. I can live in a $2 million dollar house, employ a cleaning lady, work a demanding job, exercise etc - but I’m going to drop the ball on Christmas and/or a birthday for my mental health?

Someone who is not celebrating Christmas for their child (assuming you’re Christian) is practically homeless or suffering from severe mental illness.

This post sounds like mental illness. What on earth?

+1! Figure out what "celebrating Christmas" means to you. If it means spending 10,000 hours decorating and buying gifts, and you don't have 10,000 hours to spend, you'll either need to take time from other things, outsource, or not spend 10,000 hours on Christmas. This isn't rocket science. My parents had demanding jobs and we had no other family, so they spend 2 hours decorating and gave my sibling and I one gift each, but that still counted as Christmas because we were celebrating together.

My parents were immigrants who worked themselves to the bone. We'd haul down the plastic Christmas tree from the attic, my brother and I would wrap the lights and tinsel, hang the few ornaments while my dad ran to the toy store to get a He-Man action figure for my brother and a My Little Pony for me. My mom would wrap them and stick them under the tree, and call it a day. Good times, and great memories.

Sounds to me like both of your parents participated.
I think OP is resentful because she has to do everything alone.

Would OP be satisfied if all her DH did was a last minute Target run for action figures?

I think she would be satisfied if he volunteered to go and he knew what he wanted to get.

She said that she is upset that he didn’t volunteer to do anything.

We have no idea what happened behind the scenes with PP’s parents. We have no idea if her mother told him to go to Target and what to buy.

Action figure PP here. My dad definitely knew what to buy, because he would take the few minutes to notice us and the toys with which we played. That's why I have good memories. Christmas was that time they could take a break and show us that they did know who we were, even though they were normally away so much working. It didn't take a huge amount of time or money.

No offense, PP, but you probably have no idea about the Christmas conversations and delegating that may or may not have occurred between your parents. The point IMO is that they made it work in order to give you a good childhood and happy memories. Who CARES if Mom was the “project manager” or Dad was, or if they both magically manage to do exactly the right 50% with no reminders or delegating whatsoever?

What a strange response. You don’t think that as a kid I’d know if my dad knows what toys I play with? Kids aren’t dumb. Of course I wouldn’t have known all the conversations and delegations, but I would certainly notice if all the work is primarily done by one parent and the second has no clue what is going on. And I would definitely notice if the parent doing all the work resented the situation. That sort of thing is extremely obvious to kids because parents usually do a poor job of hiding it.

DP. The standards on fathers today are higher than our own fathers (as it should be). I doubt mothers who were raising kids in the He-man/Little Pony would be as resentful for the mental load. What would your mother say? I had to say - you go to Kmart and buy actions figures, I’ll finish dinner and wrap when you get home. He didn’t just volunteer? Or know which task to take? Would she resent that? Seems unlikely for that generation.

But that’s what we’re talking about today. Also - children are very naive about the behind the scenes discussions between parents.

My mother was an 80s housewife without a job. She DGAF if she had to buy Christmas presents and plan the vacation. That was her job. Now I have a FT job AND still have to manage the vacation and buy presents.

You don't need a full time job. You want it. You don't need Christmas presents and vacation. You want them. You saw what it took for your parents to make marriage work but you decided you were smarter and better and could work miracles. Who did you model your marriage after? Some TV show couple? You are not superwoman, and your DH is not superman. Welcome to reality!

I'm with you on the agency argument, for the most part, but honestly? If you want to have kids and own a home in DC, either your spouse has to be crazy wealthy, or you both have to work. The diminished mental load from working part-time vs. full is negligible, as you still have to coordinate schedules, budget for work-related expenses, etc. The alternative is not working outside the home at all and staying home as an "80s housewife" or the like. It's not "without a job" but it's without paid employment and the financial options and self-esteem that go with having a salary of your own.

In short, there still isn't a great option for women. We need financial incentives and benefits for staying at home to raise our children ourselves. Never gonna happen.

Glad you acknowledged that these are all wants. You do not have to stay in DC. You do not need to have children. We can negotiate better financial incentives and benefits with our spouses in prenups, but we chose not to because we are desperate to get married and repeat cycles that we know were disadvantageous to our mothers.

For example, women can negotiate prenups stipulating that men give them 100k in a separate non- premarital account before each child is born so they have some independence while staying home at the early stages of child development. Options like this are rarely considered because women have chosen to be delusional about the reality of raising children in a capitalist society. It is easier to pretend that love will conquer all instead of negotiating marriage like the contract that it is.

Additionally, the price of housing in DC and other big cities is high because there is a demand at that price. If many families had only one working spouse, few will be able to pay those prices, and the prices will go down.

This may oversimplify things a bit, but I don't disagree. And women can also negotiate post-nups if they're in a situation already and want it to change. There's a lot of victim mentality "it can't be helped" attitude on this thread, which is nonsense. Change it or leave. There are still options. Staying uhappy and complaining is a choice.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The posters suggesting to not not barely celebrate Christmas or birthdays aren’t very helpful.

You’re also not taking the rest of life into consideration. I can live in a $2 million dollar house, employ a cleaning lady, work a demanding job, exercise etc - but I’m going to drop the ball on Christmas and/or a birthday for my mental health?

Someone who is not celebrating Christmas for their child (assuming you’re Christian) is practically homeless or suffering from severe mental illness.

This post sounds like mental illness. What on earth?

+1! Figure out what "celebrating Christmas" means to you. If it means spending 10,000 hours decorating and buying gifts, and you don't have 10,000 hours to spend, you'll either need to take time from other things, outsource, or not spend 10,000 hours on Christmas. This isn't rocket science. My parents had demanding jobs and we had no other family, so they spend 2 hours decorating and gave my sibling and I one gift each, but that still counted as Christmas because we were celebrating together.

My parents were immigrants who worked themselves to the bone. We'd haul down the plastic Christmas tree from the attic, my brother and I would wrap the lights and tinsel, hang the few ornaments while my dad ran to the toy store to get a He-Man action figure for my brother and a My Little Pony for me. My mom would wrap them and stick them under the tree, and call it a day. Good times, and great memories.

Sounds to me like both of your parents participated.
I think OP is resentful because she has to do everything alone.

Would OP be satisfied if all her DH did was a last minute Target run for action figures?

I think she would be satisfied if he volunteered to go and he knew what he wanted to get.

She said that she is upset that he didn’t volunteer to do anything.

We have no idea what happened behind the scenes with PP’s parents. We have no idea if her mother told him to go to Target and what to buy.

Action figure PP here. My dad definitely knew what to buy, because he would take the few minutes to notice us and the toys with which we played. That's why I have good memories. Christmas was that time they could take a break and show us that they did know who we were, even though they were normally away so much working. It didn't take a huge amount of time or money.

No offense, PP, but you probably have no idea about the Christmas conversations and delegating that may or may not have occurred between your parents. The point IMO is that they made it work in order to give you a good childhood and happy memories. Who CARES if Mom was the “project manager” or Dad was, or if they both magically manage to do exactly the right 50% with no reminders or delegating whatsoever?

What a strange response. You don’t think that as a kid I’d know if my dad knows what toys I play with? Kids aren’t dumb. Of course I wouldn’t have known all the conversations and delegations, but I would certainly notice if all the work is primarily done by one parent and the second has no clue what is going on. And I would definitely notice if the parent doing all the work resented the situation. That sort of thing is extremely obvious to kids because parents usually do a poor job of hiding it.

DP. The standards on fathers today are higher than our own fathers (as it should be). I doubt mothers who were raising kids in the He-man/Little Pony would be as resentful for the mental load. What would your mother say? I had to say - you go to Kmart and buy actions figures, I’ll finish dinner and wrap when you get home. He didn’t just volunteer? Or know which task to take? Would she resent that? Seems unlikely for that generation.

But that’s what we’re talking about today. Also - children are very naive about the behind the scenes discussions between parents.

My mother was an 80s housewife without a job. She DGAF if she had to buy Christmas presents and plan the vacation. That was her job. Now I have a FT job AND still have to manage the vacation and buy presents.

You don't need a full time job. You want it. You don't need Christmas presents and vacation. You want them. You saw what it took for your parents to make marriage work but you decided you were smarter and better and could work miracles. Who did you model your marriage after? Some TV show couple? You are not superwoman, and your DH is not superman. Welcome to reality!

The husband doesn’t *need* a full time job either. He merely wants it.

He doesn’t need a wife or kids either. He merely wants that image with no effort.

Reality is he’s not marriage material nor a fully developed or even semi developed adult.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The posters suggesting to not not barely celebrate Christmas or birthdays aren’t very helpful.

You’re also not taking the rest of life into consideration. I can live in a $2 million dollar house, employ a cleaning lady, work a demanding job, exercise etc - but I’m going to drop the ball on Christmas and/or a birthday for my mental health?

Someone who is not celebrating Christmas for their child (assuming you’re Christian) is practically homeless or suffering from severe mental illness.

This post sounds like mental illness. What on earth?

+1! Figure out what "celebrating Christmas" means to you. If it means spending 10,000 hours decorating and buying gifts, and you don't have 10,000 hours to spend, you'll either need to take time from other things, outsource, or not spend 10,000 hours on Christmas. This isn't rocket science. My parents had demanding jobs and we had no other family, so they spend 2 hours decorating and gave my sibling and I one gift each, but that still counted as Christmas because we were celebrating together.

My parents were immigrants who worked themselves to the bone. We'd haul down the plastic Christmas tree from the attic, my brother and I would wrap the lights and tinsel, hang the few ornaments while my dad ran to the toy store to get a He-Man action figure for my brother and a My Little Pony for me. My mom would wrap them and stick them under the tree, and call it a day. Good times, and great memories.

Sounds to me like both of your parents participated.
I think OP is resentful because she has to do everything alone.

Would OP be satisfied if all her DH did was a last minute Target run for action figures?

I think she would be satisfied if he volunteered to go and he knew what he wanted to get.

She said that she is upset that he didn’t volunteer to do anything.

We have no idea what happened behind the scenes with PP’s parents. We have no idea if her mother told him to go to Target and what to buy.

Action figure PP here. My dad definitely knew what to buy, because he would take the few minutes to notice us and the toys with which we played. That's why I have good memories. Christmas was that time they could take a break and show us that they did know who we were, even though they were normally away so much working. It didn't take a huge amount of time or money.

No offense, PP, but you probably have no idea about the Christmas conversations and delegating that may or may not have occurred between your parents. The point IMO is that they made it work in order to give you a good childhood and happy memories. Who CARES if Mom was the “project manager” or Dad was, or if they both magically manage to do exactly the right 50% with no reminders or delegating whatsoever?

What a strange response. You don’t think that as a kid I’d know if my dad knows what toys I play with? Kids aren’t dumb. Of course I wouldn’t have known all the conversations and delegations, but I would certainly notice if all the work is primarily done by one parent and the second has no clue what is going on. And I would definitely notice if the parent doing all the work resented the situation. That sort of thing is extremely obvious to kids because parents usually do a poor job of hiding it.

No one said that, dummy. I’m saying as a kid you wouldn’t know if your mom had to say to your dad, every single year, hey go to the store and get the kids some Christmas presents.

OP isn’t talking about doing all the work. She’s talking about the “mental load” of delegating half the work to her husband. And no, kids wouldn’t notice that.

Your response isn’t strange, it’s painfully stupid. Or just disingenuous.

Kids don’t remember anything much.

They’ll have to grow up and set their own boundaries, after they realize one of their so called parents is utterly unreliable and ego centric. Hopefully by then they’ll grow out of lapping up the sparse attention they occasionally get from the neglectful selfish parent too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:i've accepted that I carry all the mental labor while I am also the primary breadwinner. But I assign him all the stuff I dont want to do. At least that is one benefit!

I’ve accepted that I do as well, and my husband and my children’s father is a failure.

Onward and upward!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The posters suggesting to not not barely celebrate Christmas or birthdays aren’t very helpful.

You’re also not taking the rest of life into consideration. I can live in a $2 million dollar house, employ a cleaning lady, work a demanding job, exercise etc - but I’m going to drop the ball on Christmas and/or a birthday for my mental health?

Someone who is not celebrating Christmas for their child (assuming you’re Christian) is practically homeless or suffering from severe mental illness.

This post sounds like mental illness. What on earth?

+1! Figure out what "celebrating Christmas" means to you. If it means spending 10,000 hours decorating and buying gifts, and you don't have 10,000 hours to spend, you'll either need to take time from other things, outsource, or not spend 10,000 hours on Christmas. This isn't rocket science. My parents had demanding jobs and we had no other family, so they spend 2 hours decorating and gave my sibling and I one gift each, but that still counted as Christmas because we were celebrating together.

My parents were immigrants who worked themselves to the bone. We'd haul down the plastic Christmas tree from the attic, my brother and I would wrap the lights and tinsel, hang the few ornaments while my dad ran to the toy store to get a He-Man action figure for my brother and a My Little Pony for me. My mom would wrap them and stick them under the tree, and call it a day. Good times, and great memories.

Sounds to me like both of your parents participated.
I think OP is resentful because she has to do everything alone.

Would OP be satisfied if all her DH did was a last minute Target run for action figures?

I think she would be satisfied if he volunteered to go and he knew what he wanted to get.

She said that she is upset that he didn’t volunteer to do anything.

We have no idea what happened behind the scenes with PP’s parents. We have no idea if her mother told him to go to Target and what to buy.

Action figure PP here. My dad definitely knew what to buy, because he would take the few minutes to notice us and the toys with which we played. That's why I have good memories. Christmas was that time they could take a break and show us that they did know who we were, even though they were normally away so much working. It didn't take a huge amount of time or money.

No offense, PP, but you probably have no idea about the Christmas conversations and delegating that may or may not have occurred between your parents. The point IMO is that they made it work in order to give you a good childhood and happy memories. Who CARES if Mom was the “project manager” or Dad was, or if they both magically manage to do exactly the right 50% with no reminders or delegating whatsoever?

What a strange response. You don’t think that as a kid I’d know if my dad knows what toys I play with? Kids aren’t dumb. Of course I wouldn’t have known all the conversations and delegations, but I would certainly notice if all the work is primarily done by one parent and the second has no clue what is going on. And I would definitely notice if the parent doing all the work resented the situation. That sort of thing is extremely obvious to kids because parents usually do a poor job of hiding it.

DP. The standards on fathers today are higher than our own fathers (as it should be). I doubt mothers who were raising kids in the He-man/Little Pony would be as resentful for the mental load. What would your mother say? I had to say - you go to Kmart and buy actions figures, I’ll finish dinner and wrap when you get home. He didn’t just volunteer? Or know which task to take? Would she resent that? Seems unlikely for that generation.

But that’s what we’re talking about today. Also - children are very naive about the behind the scenes discussions between parents.

My mother was an 80s housewife without a job. She DGAF if she had to buy Christmas presents and plan the vacation. That was her job. Now I have a FT job AND still have to manage the vacation and buy presents.

You don't need a full time job. You want it. You don't need Christmas presents and vacation. You want them. You saw what it took for your parents to make marriage work but you decided you were smarter and better and could work miracles. Who did you model your marriage after? Some TV show couple? You are not superwoman, and your DH is not superman. Welcome to reality!

The husband doesn’t *need* a full time job either. He merely wants it.

He doesn’t need a wife or kids either. He merely wants that image with no effort.

Reality is he’s not marriage material nor a fully developed or even semi developed adult.

True. But she married him and is still with him. So he must have some value for her.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The posters suggesting to not not barely celebrate Christmas or birthdays aren’t very helpful.

You’re also not taking the rest of life into consideration. I can live in a $2 million dollar house, employ a cleaning lady, work a demanding job, exercise etc - but I’m going to drop the ball on Christmas and/or a birthday for my mental health?

Someone who is not celebrating Christmas for their child (assuming you’re Christian) is practically homeless or suffering from severe mental illness.

This post sounds like mental illness. What on earth?

+1! Figure out what "celebrating Christmas" means to you. If it means spending 10,000 hours decorating and buying gifts, and you don't have 10,000 hours to spend, you'll either need to take time from other things, outsource, or not spend 10,000 hours on Christmas. This isn't rocket science. My parents had demanding jobs and we had no other family, so they spend 2 hours decorating and gave my sibling and I one gift each, but that still counted as Christmas because we were celebrating together.

My parents were immigrants who worked themselves to the bone. We'd haul down the plastic Christmas tree from the attic, my brother and I would wrap the lights and tinsel, hang the few ornaments while my dad ran to the toy store to get a He-Man action figure for my brother and a My Little Pony for me. My mom would wrap them and stick them under the tree, and call it a day. Good times, and great memories.

Sounds to me like both of your parents participated.
I think OP is resentful because she has to do everything alone.

OP is not doing everything alone, though. If OP was the mom in the above example, she would be whining about having to remind her DH that it was time to haul the tree down from the attic and ask him to run to the store for the gifts. Her DH does participate. She is whining about her “mental load” which is not really a thing if your actual concern is the kids.

Okay. I literally don’t know anyone who whines because their husband immediately does the thing they asked as soon as they ask and with enthusiasm.
This would be like a man complaining that he always has to initiate sex, but every time he does, his wife gives him an enthusiastic blowjob.

What women complain about is more the equivalent of a man complaining that he has to initiate sex, and every time he does, she will lay there like a starfish and ask how much longer it’s going to take.

But that’s *literally* what this thread is about. Move the goalposts all you want, you’re still wrong.

Even in a modern marriage with men actively participating, it’s almost always up to the DW to assign tasks and make all household decisions. Yet my DH can manage a complex job with many direct reports. I don’t believe he can’t manage buying teacher gifts or signing up for aftercare. Instead, he doesn’t care and knows I’ll do it. What this means is that I have an extra burden he doesn’t have - all the admin work. We both have FT jobs and present for the kids and then I have an admin job on top of it all.

Men are great at prioritizing themselves and their careers.

And you knew this when you married him. How was his father? Did you think he was magically going to be different from the way you and he were brought up? You chose to marry him and accept this.

No, I didn’t. There wasn’t much at all to plan. Before we kids we didn’t need to contribute to holiday gifts, sign up for swim lessons so our child doesn’t drown, sign up for aftercare, etc. I’m handling 10-15 admin tasks each week related to kids. Pre kids we were equals.