The Woke Police Mom

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I’d treat it with kindness, and maybe try to see things from their side. It’s obviously a very challenging time in her life, and what she’s saying isn’t wrong - you are using assumptive gender language to describe things. What makes a fabric feminine and why isn’t it just pink fabric with graceful yellow flowers and silver thread?

So, maybe without the judgment about her “wokeness”, challenge yourself own ideas about gender and language. Times are changing, whether you want them to or not, so utilize your friends knowledge and guidance to help get you caught up.

Woke hypocrisy is astounding. Which is why times might not be changing.

[Anonymous]

Wokeness is exhausting
-keeping up with all the things you are and are not allowed to say is a chore.
-making sure that you monitor those around you, constantly, to ensure that they too are keeping up to date on what the are and are not allowed to say.

I mean, it's easier to just not interact withe the world, or EVER speak out loud.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Floral fabric IS feminine.

If anyone disagrees, fine, but I'm avoiding future contact. My feminine world won't be erased by anyone. If I am the last female on earth, with the last feminine pink floral poof, so be it. I will be that feminist warrior.

+1.

The central irony is that the most prominent way in recent years that we've seen that masculinity and femininity can be important, valued, definable characteristics is through the experiences of trans people. Not to lump trans and woke and gender-is-but-a-construct all together, but when someone assigned female at birth says that they don't feel at home in that body, we don't say, "oh, but gender is just a social construct, it's meaningless, so tsk tsk for you wanting to 'identify' as something that's a made-up construct." Instead we (hopefully, at least) embrace it and support their transition.

It's okay for things to be perceived as masculine and feminine; it's not okay to think that one is universally better or universally worse. But you wouldn't know that from knee-jerk people who say, "oh flowers are delicate and feminine!? Why can't they be tough, resilient, and masculine!?" Like, if that's your reaction to someone using the term, you're the one applying a value judgment.

I hear you but why is that word so triggering? Where do we draw the line between thoughtfully selecting our own choice of words and controlling the language of others? If something is overtly racist or offensive, that is one thing. But a more nuanced choice of words...why not just let it go and decide that you would word that differently?

Because it's so difficult to live like that. To constantly self-censor your word choices of relatively non-controversial things. Why do people take such "offense" to these things, especially if it's not intended to be judgmental or offensive? Pink has been considered a "feminine" color because it was marketed that way in the early 20th century. Before that, it was generally considered masculine. To acknowledge that, should not be considered offensive. In fact, using any gendered pronouns shouldn't be offensive. The Romance languages are built on this distinction for peet's sake. I'm all for supporting transgender rights and freedoms and trying to be inclusive. However, there's a huge difference between denigrating someone or refusing them bathroom access or bullying and simply using a culturally accepted construct that has been with us for multiple generations. Culture changes slowly. To expect everyone to immediately conform to the latest social justice issue is not only unreasonable, but counterproductive. It pisses off the people that would otherwise be your allies and it makes one an insufferable blowhard wedded to the latest dogma.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Wait, "Master Bedroom" is now no bueno? It's so hard to keep up.

It’s now Primary bedroom

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Floral fabric IS feminine.

If anyone disagrees, fine, but I'm avoiding future contact. My feminine world won't be erased by anyone. If I am the last female on earth, with the last feminine pink floral poof, so be it. I will be that feminist warrior.

+1.

The central irony is that the most prominent way in recent years that we've seen that masculinity and femininity can be important, valued, definable characteristics is through the experiences of trans people. Not to lump trans and woke and gender-is-but-a-construct all together, but when someone assigned female at birth says that they don't feel at home in that body, we don't say, "oh, but gender is just a social construct, it's meaningless, so tsk tsk for you wanting to 'identify' as something that's a made-up construct." Instead we (hopefully, at least) embrace it and support their transition.

It's okay for things to be perceived as masculine and feminine; it's not okay to think that one is universally better or universally worse. But you wouldn't know that from knee-jerk people who say, "oh flowers are delicate and feminine!? Why can't they be tough, resilient, and masculine!?" Like, if that's your reaction to someone using the term, you're the one applying a value judgment.

I hear you but why is that word so triggering? Where do we draw the line between thoughtfully selecting our own choice of words and controlling the language of others? If something is overtly racist or offensive, that is one thing. But a more nuanced choice of words...why not just let it go and decide that you would word that differently?

Because it's so difficult to live like that. To constantly self-censor your word choices of relatively non-controversial things. Why do people take such "offense" to these things, especially if it's not intended to be judgmental or offensive? Pink has been considered a "feminine" color because it was marketed that way in the early 20th century. Before that, it was generally considered masculine. To acknowledge that, should not be considered offensive. In fact, using any gendered pronouns shouldn't be offensive. The Romance languages are built on this distinction for peet's sake. I'm all for supporting transgender rights and freedoms and trying to be inclusive. However, there's a huge difference between denigrating someone or refusing them bathroom access or bullying and simply using a culturally accepted construct that has been with us for multiple generations. Culture changes slowly. To expect everyone to immediately conform to the latest social justice issue is not only unreasonable, but counterproductive. It pisses off the people that would otherwise be your allies and it makes one an insufferable blowhard wedded to the latest dogma.

Very well put!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:She's right about the feminine fabric. Sometimes people can be irritating but I always take a moment to really listen to what they're saying before I reject it out of hand.

Also: having a non-conforming child is hard as hell. We are close to a family who is struggling with this now and they are trying to be supportive but it is extremely difficult for everyone--including the child themselves who is navigating their feelings and the normal intense emotions of puberty at the same time. This is not the time for me to be a b-tch about their complete overhaul of their attitudes and language.

I disagree about the fabric. Floral fabric is feminine because femininity is a social construct that we've assigned certain qualities, and the fabric embodies those qualities. That doesn't mean that only a girl or woman (and definitely not only people assigned as female at birth) can wear or enjoy that fabric. It doesn't meant that at all. It means that the fabric embraces the qualities of femininity, which is a real concept we have developed in our culture and use to tell stories about the world we live in. It's fun and interesting to explore ideas of femininity and masculinity, to ask what assumptions we make, and to ask who owns those ideas (I'd argue no one does).

I would also be interested in hearing the friend explain, specifically, why the fabric isn't feminine, and maybe she'd have arguments that would persuade me to change my thinking.

But if she just told me "no, you are not allowed to use that adjective to describe something," I'd push back because that's not how communication works. You don't get to just redefine words and then dictate how I use them.

OP here- I get it. Floral fabric doesn't necessarily need to be genderized. But the point of my story had nothing to do with the floral fabric. It was a very minor detail of a much longer comment. That is what I find so irritating. I would probably more amenable if she let me finish my story and brought it up late. ("Hey, I thought of this when you commented on a fabric being feminine. The work we have been doing in our family has made me really thinking about how I use words like that. What do you think?")

I get it. It's more about her being so damn obnoxious about it. I couldn't socialize with that hanging over my head all the time. Not even allowed to say master bedroom? Ladybug? LOL...too much time on some people's hands.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Two excellent new terms have come out of this thread:. Larlx and Theybug.

Aahahahahahhhhhahaha. True! My tuesday has been made.

Agree I love Larlx.

Yes, those were both brilliant.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wait, "Master Bedroom" is now no bueno? It's so hard to keep up.

It’s now Primary bedroom

Umm, why?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wait, "Master Bedroom" is now no bueno? It's so hard to keep up.

It’s now Primary bedroom

Is it Primary bathroom now, too? Because that doesn't make any sense.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wait, "Master Bedroom" is now no bueno? It's so hard to keep up.

It’s now Primary bedroom

Umm, why?

Where you do you think that term originates from? (Master = master of slaves)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Two excellent new terms have come out of this thread:. Larlx and Theybug.

Missed opportunity for "Theydybug" though. (Theydeebug?)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wait, "Master Bedroom" is now no bueno? It's so hard to keep up.

It’s now Primary bedroom

Umm, why?

Where you do you think that term originates from? (Master = master of slaves)

Or Foxhounds. Dog abuse!

[Anonymous]

I had a conversation with a coworker about this subject. I have been a staunch supporter of gay/trans rights since my early teens (early 90s). Basically, since I could formulate coherent reasons for it. I will continue to be an ally and a supporter of everyone's rights but especially those who are being discriminated against. That being said, my company has decided that this is the year of D&I. They are literally drowning us in training and meeting after meeting, after meeting about mostly LGBTQ issues. I have zero problems with the sentiment and agree with it wholeheartedly. However, the message and the intensity is starting to achieve the opposite effect. Instead of gaining more supposed they are browbeating us into putting our pronouns in our signature lines, having a rainbow flag as background during Teams meetings, etc. Quite frankly I'm getting a little tired of it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wait, "Master Bedroom" is now no bueno? It's so hard to keep up.

It’s now Primary bedroom

Umm, why?

Where you do you think that term originates from? (Master = master of slaves)

That’s actually not the origin of the term as it relates to bedrooms/bathrooms. “Slave master” is a secondary meaning of the word, but reality doesn’t mean much these days when there’s an opportunity to be offended.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I had a conversation with a coworker about this subject. I have been a staunch supporter of gay/trans rights since my early teens (early 90s). Basically, since I could formulate coherent reasons for it. I will continue to be an ally and a supporter of everyone's rights but especially those who are being discriminated against. That being said, my company has decided that this is the year of D&I. They are literally drowning us in training and meeting after meeting, after meeting about mostly LGBTQ issues. I have zero problems with the sentiment and agree with it wholeheartedly. However, the message and the intensity is starting to achieve the opposite effect. Instead of gaining more supposed they are browbeating us into putting our pronouns in our signature lines, having a rainbow flag as background during Teams meetings, etc. Quite frankly I'm getting a little tired of it.

I don’t get the point of leading with someone’s sexuality in the workplace. It’s seems like the opposite of what we should be doing.