The Woke Police Mom

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Using the term "wokeness" means you lose all credibilty.

Go back to your hole. You are an idiot. And get yourself a dictionary before posting again.

Dicitionary.com is easy to read.

lol yikes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Does she correct you about other stuff too, or just this?

she does this with other things too- all related to race/gender/sexuality issues. Another example: Another neighbor was in the middle of a very compelling story and slipped and said "Master Bedroom". My friend interrupted him and said "Don't you mean primary?!" and proceeded to explain a very long-winded explanation of why that was offensive to say. She totally derailed the story. The story-teller was very gracious and replied with something like "Of course. I am still getting used to switching that. Thank you." and moved right along. But later, she whispered to me "I can't believe he said that." indicated that she was totally appalled. As if 3 years ago, she wasn't using that term herself.

We are all on this journey together and we all WANT to learn and grow. I don't see the benefit in constantly schooling each other. Doesn't seem productive.

She sounds exhausting. No one likes being constantly corrected. Can you or others call her on it? “look, Larlx, I think you know I love and support your child. I also think you know it’s important to me to be an ally and use supportive language. It’s also important to me to feel like I can have a conversation with my friends without being corrected mid-sentence for assuming the gender of a ladybug. That correction wasn’t productive.” Or, “what were you hoping to accomplish when you chastised me about the ladybug?” Then listen. Then let her know whether she’s meeting her goals or having the opposite effect.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’d treat it with kindness, and maybe try to see things from their side. It’s obviously a very challenging time in her life, and what she’s saying isn’t wrong - you are using assumptive gender language to describe things. What makes a fabric feminine and why isn’t it just pink fabric with graceful yellow flowers and silver thread?

So, maybe without the judgment about her “wokeness”, challenge yourself own ideas about gender and language. Times are changing, whether you want them to or not, so utilize your friends knowledge and guidance to help get you caught up.

Her point is that sometimes her friend is wrong. Like with the ladybug. It isn't a Theybug.

OP here- no, my point is more that I think thoughtful discussion surrounding these issues can be really beneficial to all in helping them grow. But correcting/scolding/interrupting/harping on trivial details is not a way to help people grow or be better humans- which is kind of the point!

[Anonymous]

She's right about the feminine fabric. Sometimes people can be irritating but I always take a moment to really listen to what they're saying before I reject it out of hand.

Also: having a non-conforming child is hard as hell. We are close to a family who is struggling with this now and they are trying to be supportive but it is extremely difficult for everyone--including the child themselves who is navigating their feelings and the normal intense emotions of puberty at the same time. This is not the time for me to be a b-tch about their complete overhaul of their attitudes and language.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’d treat it with kindness, and maybe try to see things from their side. It’s obviously a very challenging time in her life, and what she’s saying isn’t wrong - you are using assumptive gender language to describe things. What makes a fabric feminine and why isn’t it just pink fabric with graceful yellow flowers and silver thread?

So, maybe without the judgment about her “wokeness”, challenge yourself own ideas about gender and language. Times are changing, whether you want them to or not, so utilize your friends knowledge and guidance to help get you caught up.

Her point is that sometimes her friend is wrong. Like with the ladybug. It isn't a Theybug.

OP here- no, my point is more that I think thoughtful discussion surrounding these issues can be really beneficial to all in helping them grow. But correcting/scolding/interrupting/harping on trivial details is not a way to help people grow or be better humans- which is kind of the point!

...and sometimes your friend is actually harping on something about which she is mistaken.

[Anonymous]

Two excellent new terms have come out of this thread:. Larlx and Theybug.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’d treat it with kindness, and maybe try to see things from their side. It’s obviously a very challenging time in her life, and what she’s saying isn’t wrong - you are using assumptive gender language to describe things. What makes a fabric feminine and why isn’t it just pink fabric with graceful yellow flowers and silver thread?

So, maybe without the judgment about her “wokeness”, challenge yourself own ideas about gender and language. Times are changing, whether you want them to or not, so utilize your friends knowledge and guidance to help get you caught up.

Her point is that sometimes her friend is wrong. Like with the ladybug. It isn't a Theybug.

OP here- no, my point is more that I think thoughtful discussion surrounding these issues can be really beneficial to all in helping them grow. But correcting/scolding/interrupting/harping on trivial details is not a way to help people grow or be better humans- which is kind of the point!

I think this might be sort of what you say to them, OP. "Larlx, I hope it goes without saying that we are all trying to do better with our language. But the way that you correct some of us, it feels like scolding and comes across as more accusatory than supportive."

Personally, I don't see it as innocuously as you do. I'm happy to use someone's preferred pronouns but the idea that you need to be corrected for mis-gendering an insect or describing a "feminine" floral print is really just performative. But if you do want to try to act in the way your friend is nudging you towards, it would probably help you all if you told her how it's coming across to someone who is trying to get it right.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:She does it because she can. Why does she call herself mom and not parent? Will she have a gender for her non gender conforming child once child makes up mind?

Trans people very sexist with their definition of gender. They tell you how a girl or boy should be defined based on what they want to be.

They need lots support, love, understanding, but got stop dictating everyone else what think.

It's care-giver, not parent.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Two excellent new terms have come out of this thread:. Larlx and Theybug.

Aahahahahahhhhhahaha. True! My tuesday has been made.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’d treat it with kindness, and maybe try to see things from their side. It’s obviously a very challenging time in her life, and what she’s saying isn’t wrong - you are using assumptive gender language to describe things. What makes a fabric feminine and why isn’t it just pink fabric with graceful yellow flowers and silver thread?

So, maybe without the judgment about her “wokeness”, challenge yourself own ideas about gender and language. Times are changing, whether you want them to or not, so utilize your friends knowledge and guidance to help get you caught up.

Her point is that sometimes her friend is wrong. Like with the ladybug. It isn't a Theybug.

OP here- no, my point is more that I think thoughtful discussion surrounding these issues can be really beneficial to all in helping them grow. But correcting/scolding/interrupting/harping on trivial details is not a way to help people grow or be better humans- which is kind of the point!

+1

[Anonymous]

I would be direct and push back. Like for something like the ladybug thing, I'd say, "In this case, I feel certain the ladybug doesn't mind. But I work hard not to misgender people. I think those things are different, don't you?" I might also point out to my friend that even with people, it's complicated. There are people who would be offended by being called "they" because they feel their gender should be obvious. Shouldn't we also respect their desire to be called "she" or "he"? "They" can be a form of misgendering as well.

And the same with the fabric pattern. Your friend is assuming that if we just adopt genderless language, that will solve the problem. But it doesn't -- some people are trans, some people are non-binary, but what about someone who is femme or butch? Their gender presentation matters to them. The concept of "feminine" and "masculine" matters to them. And yes, a floral pattern is feminine, not masculine. That doesn't mean only a woman may wear it or like it. It means that's the gendered association our culture has with it. You can have a conversation about why, if you like, that could be interesting.

But your friend is actually wrong. She can and should be very strong about making sure people don't misgender her child and asserting her child's right to define their gender for themselves. No issues there. But your friend doesn't get to dictate the elimination of all gendered language from your lives -- that's not realistic and it's actually not respectful of people for whom gender is actually a really important part of their identity, which includes many trans and others LGBTQ+ people. The idea that we are heading for a genderless, neutral future is false and not actually a very open minded attitude. We should talk about and celebrate and explore gender, not try to eliminate it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:She's right about the feminine fabric. Sometimes people can be irritating but I always take a moment to really listen to what they're saying before I reject it out of hand.

Also: having a non-conforming child is hard as hell. We are close to a family who is struggling with this now and they are trying to be supportive but it is extremely difficult for everyone--including the child themselves who is navigating their feelings and the normal intense emotions of puberty at the same time. This is not the time for me to be a b-tch about their complete overhaul of their attitudes and language.

I disagree about the fabric. Floral fabric is feminine because femininity is a social construct that we've assigned certain qualities, and the fabric embodies those qualities. That doesn't mean that only a girl or woman (and definitely not only people assigned as female at birth) can wear or enjoy that fabric. It doesn't meant that at all. It means that the fabric embraces the qualities of femininity, which is a real concept we have developed in our culture and use to tell stories about the world we live in. It's fun and interesting to explore ideas of femininity and masculinity, to ask what assumptions we make, and to ask who owns those ideas (I'd argue no one does).

I would also be interested in hearing the friend explain, specifically, why the fabric isn't feminine, and maybe she'd have arguments that would persuade me to change my thinking.

But if she just told me "no, you are not allowed to use that adjective to describe something," I'd push back because that's not how communication works. You don't get to just redefine words and then dictate how I use them.

[Anonymous]

Avoid her. Because what will she nit pick next.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:She's right about the feminine fabric. Sometimes people can be irritating but I always take a moment to really listen to what they're saying before I reject it out of hand.

Also: having a non-conforming child is hard as hell. We are close to a family who is struggling with this now and they are trying to be supportive but it is extremely difficult for everyone--including the child themselves who is navigating their feelings and the normal intense emotions of puberty at the same time. This is not the time for me to be a b-tch about their complete overhaul of their attitudes and language.

I disagree about the fabric. Floral fabric is feminine because femininity is a social construct that we've assigned certain qualities, and the fabric embodies those qualities. That doesn't mean that only a girl or woman (and definitely not only people assigned as female at birth) can wear or enjoy that fabric. It doesn't meant that at all. It means that the fabric embraces the qualities of femininity, which is a real concept we have developed in our culture and use to tell stories about the world we live in. It's fun and interesting to explore ideas of femininity and masculinity, to ask what assumptions we make, and to ask who owns those ideas (I'd argue no one does).

I would also be interested in hearing the friend explain, specifically, why the fabric isn't feminine, and maybe she'd have arguments that would persuade me to change my thinking.

But if she just told me "no, you are not allowed to use that adjective to describe something," I'd push back because that's not how communication works. You don't get to just redefine words and then dictate how I use them.

OP here- I get it. Floral fabric doesn't necessarily need to be genderized. But the point of my story had nothing to do with the floral fabric. It was a very minor detail of a much longer comment. That is what I find so irritating. I would probably more amenable if she let me finish my story and brought it up late. ("Hey, I thought of this when you commented on a fabric being feminine. The work we have been doing in our family has made me really thinking about how I use words like that. What do you think?")

[Anonymous]

Floral fabric IS feminine.

If anyone disagrees, fine, but I'm avoiding future contact. My feminine world won't be erased by anyone. If I am the last female on earth, with the last feminine pink floral poof, so be it. I will be that feminist warrior.