Sexless-ness is an acceptable negative outcome from marriage

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Guy here. A sexless marriage would be tough for me to accept. I do everything I can to make sure that doesn’t happen - I try to head off relationship issues before resentment builds, do housework and am an engaged parent. And when there’s an issue (such as sex) I talk to her about it.

But I think something thats important is to be someone that a woman would want to have sex in the first place: Stay fit, lift weights, eat healthy, get a good haircut, be fun to be around, and, when you are in bed, make sure you satisfy her.

Luckily, my spouse does the same things. It would be tougher if she didn’t.

Lastly, things are going to come up from time to time. We’ve been working from home with a teen in the house and its been impossible finding a time that works. We’ve resorted to doing it in the garage while he’s on Zoom calls! Lol. How long has it been since you’ve ripped each other’s clothes off and screwed on a weight bench and camping chair? Well it was a first for me and a funny connection builder that we both laugh about.

This right here. But a lot of men dont want to acknowledge this. They do nothing around the house, blow themselves up to 250 pounds, and act sullen and grumpy all the time and then wonder why their wife has zero attraction. Women are not sexual martyrs!

The place that this breaks down is if women don’t do the same. Body image issues can wreck a woman’s sex drive.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^stop with the alarmist scare tactics intended to pressure women into panic sex, creep.

The fact is most modern marriages, particularly among UMC and UC families, are not for love between two people anyway. They are essentially a structure intended to optimize the raising of children. So most people arent getting married because they are in some Romeo and Juliet mindset- they get married because they realize the person has desirable genes and a good disposition to be a good parent. So it would be ludicrous to get divorced when "the love is over". That's like quitting a job because you got bored or tired. Stupid and not considering of the long game

Where did I pressure women to have panic sex? Dead wrong! My only statement directed at wives who don't want sex is to get divorced. So you are now going to disagree with me on that? Really?

If you want to make the case that a sexless platonic marriage should continue, well guess what I agree! It make practical sense, especially with kids. Just agree with me that platonic room mates have no expectation of fidelity, and I think we are all square.

I dont agree. That wouldn't be a marriage. We're not animals, and we shouldn't be chained to our basest instincts. As an adult, you should have the self control to last through periods of "I'm not having sex when I want it!" there are plenty of dissatisfactions people have during a marriage, and you have to deal with it as an adult. Trying to pressure a person into sex acts they dont want is never okay, and is very regressive

A wife is "unsafe" (to the point of not wanting sex).. and you are telling this unsafe wife NOT to divorce? You want this unsafe wife to stay married, not have sex, AND expect her husbands to remain "faithful". Sorry that does not work. You cannot pick and choose the parts of a "marriage" you want to uphold.

I will go along with your plan that marriage need not be true-love-with-benefits ONLY IF you agree this relationship cannot be a monogamous one.

It does work. You are not the judge nor the jury on relationships. What has worked or not worked in your marriage is largely irrelevant, other than explaining your indignance. What you will "go along with" doesn't matter to a single soul on this planet other than perhaps your wife who I assume has already cut you off

You seem incapable of making any logical argument.
1) I repeatedly tell wives who don't want sex to NOT have sex... yet you keep accusing me of the opposite
2) You claim wives don't want sex because they feel unsafe and their husbands are lazy ass entitled losers... yet you protest my guidance to divorce that unsafe lazy ass loser husband
3) You happily redefine marriage not as "lovers" but as a practical structure to raise kids.... yet you screech about "sanctity of MARRIAGE" when I essentially agree with everything you said MINUS exclusivity
4) You tell one side to "just deal with dissatisfaction in a sexless marriage" yet call me indignant to ask the wife to "just deal with non-monogamy"

1) The "either have sex or I'll leave/have an affair" thing is clearly a manipulation tactic. Sorry, you're not fooling anyone.
2) Wives don't want sex for a variety of reasons. Doesn't really matter why.
3) Yep... and lots of experts have agreed with me. Welcome to the modern era. And there's also a long history of this attitude throughout the centuries.
4) Yes... because monogamy is considered an integral part of marriage. Stepping outside of the marriage bonds transforms it into something else. Whereas sexlessness is considered par for the course in most marriages (and in fact widely jokes about/acknowledged)

Sorry no one will sleep with you. But arguing on DCUM wont make your sad life any happier.

I can tell you that 0% of men in this world agree with your absurdly hypocritical definition of the SaNcTiTy oF mOdErN MaRrIaGe.
And I think you are irresponsibly dangerous telling unsafe wives to remain married.
My sex life is quite satisfying, thank you for your concern, and have a great day.

Oh, suddenly Mr. Logical isn't doing the bullet points anymore, and instead is reverting to Gen Z twitter meme-speak. Interesting. Wonder why that is

It's "dangerous" to tell wives to stay married now... more absurd alarmist nonsense from you. I dont think it's a particularly effective argumentation tactic, as no one is going to believe these women are "dangerous" to anyone whatsoever, but hey... you do you.

NP. I agree with PP that said bitter sexless man’s “argumentation” is based on a false premise of a personal opinion. I challenge the accuracy of the statement of “fact” that marriages “especially” in certain socioeconomic structures, are for money only. That is a lie. We aren’t living in a country with dowry’s where they stay together because of an imbalance of economic empowerment. I agree that the “don’t have sex if you don’t want to” argument is a manipulation of his own interest.


It doesn’t matter if you’re a man or a woman in the position of the abandoned spouse. It’s neglect it is cruel, and it is a dereliction of duty. If you can no longer fulfill the responsibility, you seek remedy, or you allow the choice for the other party to decide without harm. You don’t just manipulate the contract of marriage for selfish intent — economic security. Cause your ass is broke and can’t afford all the extra you didn’t deserve to keep.

Bitter man. He’s angry and lashing out here. Why don’t you get back to work so you can catch up on the thousands of child support that you have in arrears? Or focus on work so you can contribute to medical, dental, tuition, and everything else you’ve neglected the past 12 years? Pathetic, brow beating women in a parenting forum.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Guy here. A sexless marriage would be tough for me to accept. I do everything I can to make sure that doesn’t happen - I try to head off relationship issues before resentment builds, do housework and am an engaged parent. And when there’s an issue (such as sex) I talk to her about it.

But I think something thats important is to be someone that a woman would want to have sex in the first place: Stay fit, lift weights, eat healthy, get a good haircut, be fun to be around, and, when you are in bed, make sure you satisfy her.

Luckily, my spouse does the same things. It would be tougher if she didn’t.

Lastly, things are going to come up from time to time. We’ve been working from home with a teen in the house and its been impossible finding a time that works. We’ve resorted to doing it in the garage while he’s on Zoom calls! Lol. How long has it been since you’ve ripped each other’s clothes off and screwed on a weight bench and camping chair? Well it was a first for me and a funny connection builder that we both laugh about.

This right here. But a lot of men dont want to acknowledge this. They do nothing around the house, blow themselves up to 250 pounds, and act sullen and grumpy all the time and then wonder why their wife has zero attraction. Women are not sexual martyrs!

The place that this breaks down is if women don’t do the same. Body image issues can wreck a woman’s sex drive.

^^ “Body image issues”. My ex was never fit or athletic. Ever. Yet I loved him. I have always been comfortable and confident, in a healthy way. I dealt with insecurity as a child, and overcame that before marriage. But in my eventual sexless marriage, the constant faithfulness to a man that would not look at me in any sexual way, nor do the basics that the original PP bolded above — everything imploded. Everything. I could completely hear my ex making this stupid argument deflecting and tossing shit around like it is truth.

In my first marriage, I WAS a sexual martyr. Faithfulness and complete fidelity until the end. Even when he was all up in every woman from his past’s DM with “innocent flirting”. So gross that you’re here. Move on. We all know you screwed up but this is just humiliating to make more of a fool out of yourself. There is a sea full of women waiting for you to partner for friendship if you want it that bad. But even a roommate expects an equal contribution to the upkeep and responsibility of a house.

I’m biased, and triggered. I didn’t have shame, he did and projected it onto me. I had no body image issue, he did, and has believed that lie to soothe his very wounded soul. Every soul deserves healing. But this is not the path for it. Probably best that I step out of this thread. It ain’t worth an increase in blood pressure. Or the waste in time sharing perspective on deaf ears and blind eyes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Unfortunately we’re socialized to believe that men are entitled to sex (every woman I know has put out on a date because she felt obliged, not because she wanted to).

Wut. How come I’ve never met any of these women?

I’ve never heard of this either.

Those of us that hold ourselves in higher esteem usually don’t run in circles with others who don’t want to. A leopard doesn’t change his spots, and not everyone is a chameleon that can try to blend in with the surroundings.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^stop with the alarmist scare tactics intended to pressure women into panic sex, creep.

The fact is most modern marriages, particularly among UMC and UC families, are not for love between two people anyway. They are essentially a structure intended to optimize the raising of children. So most people arent getting married because they are in some Romeo and Juliet mindset- they get married because they realize the person has desirable genes and a good disposition to be a good parent. So it would be ludicrous to get divorced when "the love is over". That's like quitting a job because you got bored or tired. Stupid and not considering of the long game

Where did I pressure women to have panic sex? Dead wrong! My only statement directed at wives who don't want sex is to get divorced. So you are now going to disagree with me on that? Really?

If you want to make the case that a sexless platonic marriage should continue, well guess what I agree! It make practical sense, especially with kids. Just agree with me that platonic room mates have no expectation of fidelity, and I think we are all square.

I dont agree. That wouldn't be a marriage. We're not animals, and we shouldn't be chained to our basest instincts. As an adult, you should have the self control to last through periods of "I'm not having sex when I want it!" there are plenty of dissatisfactions people have during a marriage, and you have to deal with it as an adult. Trying to pressure a person into sex acts they dont want is never okay, and is very regressive

A wife is "unsafe" (to the point of not wanting sex).. and you are telling this unsafe wife NOT to divorce? You want this unsafe wife to stay married, not have sex, AND expect her husbands to remain "faithful". Sorry that does not work. You cannot pick and choose the parts of a "marriage" you want to uphold.

I will go along with your plan that marriage need not be true-love-with-benefits ONLY IF you agree this relationship cannot be a monogamous one.

It does work. You are not the judge nor the jury on relationships. What has worked or not worked in your marriage is largely irrelevant, other than explaining your indignance. What you will "go along with" doesn't matter to a single soul on this planet other than perhaps your wife who I assume has already cut you off

You seem incapable of making any logical argument.
1) I repeatedly tell wives who don't want sex to NOT have sex... yet you keep accusing me of the opposite
2) You claim wives don't want sex because they feel unsafe and their husbands are lazy ass entitled losers... yet you protest my guidance to divorce that unsafe lazy ass loser husband
3) You happily redefine marriage not as "lovers" but as a practical structure to raise kids.... yet you screech about "sanctity of MARRIAGE" when I essentially agree with everything you said MINUS exclusivity
4) You tell one side to "just deal with dissatisfaction in a sexless marriage" yet call me indignant to ask the wife to "just deal with non-monogamy"

1) The "either have sex or I'll leave/have an affair" thing is clearly a manipulation tactic. Sorry, you're not fooling anyone.
2) Wives don't want sex for a variety of reasons. Doesn't really matter why.
3) Yep... and lots of experts have agreed with me. Welcome to the modern era. And there's also a long history of this attitude throughout the centuries.
4) Yes... because monogamy is considered an integral part of marriage. Stepping outside of the marriage bonds transforms it into something else. Whereas sexlessness is considered par for the course in most marriages (and in fact widely jokes about/acknowledged)

Sorry no one will sleep with you. But arguing on DCUM wont make your sad life any happier.

I can tell you that 0% of men in this world agree with your absurdly hypocritical definition of the SaNcTiTy oF mOdErN MaRrIaGe.
And I think you are irresponsibly dangerous telling unsafe wives to remain married.
My sex life is quite satisfying, thank you for your concern, and have a great day.

Oh, suddenly Mr. Logical isn't doing the bullet points anymore, and instead is reverting to Gen Z twitter meme-speak. Interesting. Wonder why that is

It's "dangerous" to tell wives to stay married now... more absurd alarmist nonsense from you. I dont think it's a particularly effective argumentation tactic, as no one is going to believe these women are "dangerous" to anyone whatsoever, but hey... you do you.

Ok since you want to persist with a logical discussion let's go:

1) There is zero manipulation telling somebody (who has themselves already redefined the marriage) your honest requirements to stay "together", allowing them the freedom to make an informed choice to stay (accepting the terms) or end it.
2) The PP where I first replied made a solid argument about "wives don't want sex because they feel unsafe and he is a useless father/husband" and I agreed 100% with all of it... the only sane conclusion is to DIVORCE this unsafe loser !!
3) Show citations of experts who describe your version of modern marriage as sexless room mates .... who must uphold a pledge of fidelity (meaning celibacy)
4) Wait so it's not OK to redefine the modern marriage? We need to uphold the marital traditions? Which ones must be upheld, which can be discarded?

1) There is manipulation when you're trying to force someone into behavior they don't want to engage in, especially something as personal as sex. Sexual coercion is not okay, whether it's taking place during a marriage or not. Again, the "Do what I want or I'm taking my toys home" thing is clearly a manipulation tactic and very obvious at that
2) Agreed that all DWs should divorce the plethora of loser DHs in this world- it's probably why women file for 70% of divorces. However, there can be plenty of reasons why women dont want to have sex, including feeling unsafe emotionally, but not unsafe to a level that would necessitate a divorce. Either way, it doesn't really matter.. her reasons for not having sex are valid, whatever they are. It's all okay.
3) https://qz.com/880084/love-based-marriage-is-not-the-best-model-for-raising-children/
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/contemplating-divorce/201601/you-divorce-why-not-try-parenting-marriage
4) No one is redefining he modern marriage... as I said, sexlessness and prioritization of children in marriage has been accepted for a long, long, long, long time. Expectation of non-monogomy never has. Nor has expectation of constant sex, really. That's some new Playboy fantasy modern, coddled men have adapted for themselves.

1) For the 100th time I am NOT asking any wife to have unwanted sex!!! Nor am I saying the wife must accept open marriage terms. She may freely decide to exit the marriage.
2) Good to hear: she should divorce. But if she doesn't divorce, it means she accepts the redefined definition of marriage (the one without any fidelity clause).
3) Your citations literally prove MY point! Here is a direct quote: "Tina’s only request was that he did not bring women home to the house"
4) Are we (finally) agreeing then that modern sexless marriage cannot expect monogamy?

[Anonymous]

smh.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Guy here. A sexless marriage would be tough for me to accept. I do everything I can to make sure that doesn’t happen - I try to head off relationship issues before resentment builds, do housework and am an engaged parent. And when there’s an issue (such as sex) I talk to her about it.

But I think something thats important is to be someone that a woman would want to have sex in the first place: Stay fit, lift weights, eat healthy, get a good haircut, be fun to be around, and, when you are in bed, make sure you satisfy her.

Luckily, my spouse does the same things. It would be tougher if she didn’t.

Lastly, things are going to come up from time to time. We’ve been working from home with a teen in the house and its been impossible finding a time that works. We’ve resorted to doing it in the garage while he’s on Zoom calls! Lol. How long has it been since you’ve ripped each other’s clothes off and screwed on a weight bench and camping chair? Well it was a first for me and a funny connection builder that we both laugh about.

This right here. But a lot of men dont want to acknowledge this. They do nothing around the house, blow themselves up to 250 pounds, and act sullen and grumpy all the time and then wonder why their wife has zero attraction. Women are not sexual martyrs!

The place that this breaks down is if women don’t do the same. Body image issues can wreck a woman’s sex drive.

Not for a woman who is being sexually satisfied, which is part of what is bolded. A good PIV-O (which many women don’t experience, there was an old thread about this that has good discussion), along with all of the other points bolded above, can cover a multitude of sins. Honestly, think about it. He listed the least common denominator of what a man must to do have the highest probability of a healthy sex life with his spouse. If a man consistently does that, even if you do have a body image issue, the man that loves you will tell you he doesn’t care and show you that he doesn’t care. Voilà! Body image issue is irrelevant when you’re sexually satisfied, laughing, and adulting together.

[Anonymous]

Liken it to Idris Elba doing all the above and tell me what woman is going to go sexless with him.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP Here. Thanks for the responses. As a single woman, I meet divorced men from sexless marriages.

I meant to add that many are really emotionally damaged from being in sexless marriages.

I used to think that way before I was married. Poor guys! It’s not fair they were denied sex, sex is awesome!

Then I got married and I understand it now. It’s not that these women are secretly horny and denying their husbands as punishment, or that they consciously flip the off switch.

Sex is just as much of a biological drive for women as it is for men - but works the opposite as it does in men since the consequences (pregnancy) are much greater. For most of human history, women who got pregnant from men who were poor partners couldn’t care for the child alone, and the child would die. Several months or years of a woman’s fertile years would then be wasted, while a man could impregnate dozens of women in that time, and odds are one child would survive.

So the female brain looks for reasons NOT to have sex. It pays to be very picky about who you sleep with. Even though we now have birth control and resources for single moms, our biology is still the same.

Every single woman I know who lost interest in sex (including me) did so because their body recognized it wasn’t safe. Their husbands were poor fathers, emotionally unavailable (which makes the bonding aspect of sex painful), abusive, entitled, etc. Once they get out of that relationship and into a good one, sex drive comes roaring back.

When I dated divorced men after my own divorce, every time a man has mentioned his wife lost interest, I could immediately see why. Most left their kids to pursue their career or lifestyle (seriously....one guy abandoned his kids so he could live somewhere with snowboarding). Or they let most of the childcare fall on their wives and couldn’t even feed a toddler. Or they didn’t respect boundaries, or had a drinking problem, or couldn’t control their temper.

Unfortunately we’re socialized to believe that men are entitled to sex (every woman I know has put out on a date because she felt obliged, not because she wanted to). But we’re not taught that it’s a two way street, and that men need to meet women’s needs as well. If you talked to those men’s’ wives, you’d find that the men contributed very little to the health of their marriage.

FYI....I’d be very cautious dating a man who blames his ex wife for the end of their marriage, and especially any man who claims to be emotionally damaged. Healthy people recognize the role they played in ending their marriage and they address their emotional issues in therapy. It’s not your job to heal their wounds.

I am not going to disagree with anything you've just said. In fact I will double down and say you are 100% correct on all points.
My sole criticism is that you stopped without saying what it means once the sex stops: it means get out because the marriage itself is over!

Wives who do not want sex: file for divorce immediately.
Men whose wives don't want sex ... yet there you are STILL MARRIED: your wife, knowing the marriage is over, has chosen not to divorce and wants to stay together as platonic room mates, which means you are free to date and pursue sex elsewhere.

PP here. I don't agree that everyone should jump to divorce/affairs immediately, but I agree in principle. Ideally both partners would tackle their relationship issues head on with counseling, and the problems (both sexlessness and the underlying problems that cause them) would be resolved. In my own marriage, I spent 2-3 years in individual and marital counseling before filing. That felt right to me. Any sooner and I would have always wondered if things could have been fixed (not to mention the intense pressure I got from everyone that divorce was wrong, even after they witnessed how terrible my xH treated me).

In my experience, most men are very resistant to the idea that they need to change their behavior if they want sex. Which kind of boggles my mind - obviously most understand that if they want sex with a woman they just started dating, they need to have acceptable behavior. That seems to go out the window once they're married.

I would think that it's way easier to just alter your behavior in your marriage, rather than go through a divorce, lose money/assets, lose time with your kids, and likely face a reality that other women don't want to have sex with you, either. Either way, you'll have to start behaving in a way that's attractive to women, so why not just do it within your own marriage?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Liken it to Idris Elba doing all the above and tell me what woman is going to go sexless with him.

I read that he’s rather large downstairs so most women probably wouldn’t be interested.

[Anonymous]

In my experience, most men are very resistant to the idea that they need to change their behavior if they want sex. Which kind of boggles my mind - obviously most understand that if they want sex with a woman they just started dating, they need to have acceptable behavior. That seems to go out the window once they're married.

I would think that it's way easier to just alter your behavior in your marriage, rather than go through a divorce, lose money/assets, lose time with your kids, and likely face a reality that other women don't want to have sex with you, either. Either way, you'll have to start behaving in a way that's attractive to women, so why not just do it within your own marriage.

When a woman decides she is no longer attracted to you, you are done. This won’t change no matter what you do. Get in shape, buy better clothes - she won’t even notice.

In fact, if your goal is sex, it is way easier to get a divorce and date other women than to try and regain the interest of a wife who got bored with you. “face a reality that other women don't want to have sex with you, either” is not a reality at all. Just the opposite. Most divorced men discover that it is incredibly easy to find women who want to have sex with them even if they don’t change their behavior much at all. Ask me how I know!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think men just tend to believe the world revolves around them and cant understand how a woman has the audacity not to cater to them when THEY WANT TO HAVE SEX!!!!!! It's an entitlement, petulant child thing. But anyway...just ignore.

Yeah, imagine the nerve of these guys, agreeing to sexual exclusivity, then not getting any sex, then getting mad about it. 🙄🙄🙄

Right. Sexual exclusivity is not "sex whenever I want it". That's not what exclusive means.

Who is talking about “sex whenever I want it” because I must have missed that post.
Agree exclusivity is NOT “whenever” but it IS “frequent enough to meet normal needs”.
If you can’t commit to that you better be flexible on that exclusivity part.

You aren't committing to eternal sex in marriage. You are committing to a person, for better or worse. Sometimes "worse" means they no longer have a sex drive or that part of the body stops working. Are you still committed to your spouse or not? If not, you should not get married, because for the vast majority of people this will happen eventually -- and it may be you who's bits stops working.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think men just tend to believe the world revolves around them and cant understand how a woman has the audacity not to cater to them when THEY WANT TO HAVE SEX!!!!!! It's an entitlement, petulant child thing. But anyway...just ignore.

Yeah, imagine the nerve of these guys, agreeing to sexual exclusivity, then not getting any sex, then getting mad about it. 🙄🙄🙄

Right. Sexual exclusivity is not "sex whenever I want it". That's not what exclusive means.

Who is talking about “sex whenever I want it” because I must have missed that post.
Agree exclusivity is NOT “whenever” but it IS “frequent enough to meet normal needs”.
If you can’t commit to that you better be flexible on that exclusivity part.

You aren't committing to eternal sex in marriage. You are committing to a person, for better or worse. Sometimes "worse" means they no longer have a sex drive or that part of the body stops working. Are you still committed to your spouse or not? If not, you should not get married, because for the vast majority of people this will happen eventually -- and it may be you who's bits stops working.

But how many people, both men and women, would commit to a sexless marriage? Who would still get engaged and walk down the aisle knowing a sexless marriage was on the other end? Probably very few.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP Here. Thanks for the responses. As a single woman, I meet divorced men from sexless marriages.

I meant to add that many are really emotionally damaged from being in sexless marriages.

I used to think that way before I was married. Poor guys! It’s not fair they were denied sex, sex is awesome!

Then I got married and I understand it now. It’s not that these women are secretly horny and denying their husbands as punishment, or that they consciously flip the off switch.

Sex is just as much of a biological drive for women as it is for men - but works the opposite as it does in men since the consequences (pregnancy) are much greater. For most of human history, women who got pregnant from men who were poor partners couldn’t care for the child alone, and the child would die. Several months or years of a woman’s fertile years would then be wasted, while a man could impregnate dozens of women in that time, and odds are one child would survive.

So the female brain looks for reasons NOT to have sex. It pays to be very picky about who you sleep with. Even though we now have birth control and resources for single moms, our biology is still the same.

Every single woman I know who lost interest in sex (including me) did so because their body recognized it wasn’t safe. Their husbands were poor fathers, emotionally unavailable (which makes the bonding aspect of sex painful), abusive, entitled, etc. Once they get out of that relationship and into a good one, sex drive comes roaring back.

When I dated divorced men after my own divorce, every time a man has mentioned his wife lost interest, I could immediately see why. Most left their kids to pursue their career or lifestyle (seriously....one guy abandoned his kids so he could live somewhere with snowboarding). Or they let most of the childcare fall on their wives and couldn’t even feed a toddler. Or they didn’t respect boundaries, or had a drinking problem, or couldn’t control their temper.

Unfortunately we’re socialized to believe that men are entitled to sex (every woman I know has put out on a date because she felt obliged, not because she wanted to). But we’re not taught that it’s a two way street, and that men need to meet women’s needs as well. If you talked to those men’s’ wives, you’d find that the men contributed very little to the health of their marriage.

FYI....I’d be very cautious dating a man who blames his ex wife for the end of their marriage, and especially any man who claims to be emotionally damaged. Healthy people recognize the role they played in ending their marriage and they address their emotional issues in therapy. It’s not your job to heal their wounds.

I am not going to disagree with anything you've just said. In fact I will double down and say you are 100% correct on all points.
My sole criticism is that you stopped without saying what it means once the sex stops: it means get out because the marriage itself is over!

Wives who do not want sex: file for divorce immediately.
Men whose wives don't want sex ... yet there you are STILL MARRIED: your wife, knowing the marriage is over, has chosen not to divorce and wants to stay together as platonic room mates, which means you are free to date and pursue sex elsewhere.

PP here. I don't agree that everyone should jump to divorce/affairs immediately, but I agree in principle. Ideally both partners would tackle their relationship issues head on with counseling, and the problems (both sexlessness and the underlying problems that cause them) would be resolved. In my own marriage, I spent 2-3 years in individual and marital counseling before filing. That felt right to me. Any sooner and I would have always wondered if things could have been fixed (not to mention the intense pressure I got from everyone that divorce was wrong, even after they witnessed how terrible my xH treated me).

In my experience, most men are very resistant to the idea that they need to change their behavior if they want sex. Which kind of boggles my mind - obviously most understand that if they want sex with a woman they just started dating, they need to have acceptable behavior. That seems to go out the window once they're married.

I would think that it's way easier to just alter your behavior in your marriage, rather than go through a divorce, lose money/assets, lose time with your kids, and likely face a reality that other women don't want to have sex with you, either. Either way, you'll have to start behaving in a way that's attractive to women, so why not just do it within your own marriage?

Because, men.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

In my experience, most men are very resistant to the idea that they need to change their behavior if they want sex. Which kind of boggles my mind - obviously most understand that if they want sex with a woman they just started dating, they need to have acceptable behavior. That seems to go out the window once they're married.

I would think that it's way easier to just alter your behavior in your marriage, rather than go through a divorce, lose money/assets, lose time with your kids, and likely face a reality that other women don't want to have sex with you, either. Either way, you'll have to start behaving in a way that's attractive to women, so why not just do it within your own marriage.

When a woman decides she is no longer attracted to you, you are done. This won’t change no matter what you do. Get in shape, buy better clothes - she won’t even notice.

In fact, if your goal is sex, it is way easier to get a divorce and date other women than to try and regain the interest of a wife who got bored with you. “face a reality that other women don't want to have sex with you, either” is not a reality at all. Just the opposite. Most divorced men discover that it is incredibly easy to find women who want to have sex with them even if they don’t change their behavior much at all. Ask me how I know!

Because, men?