Really Difficult First Grade Girl

[Anonymous]

Anxiety. I would talk to a therapist. She is lashing out, why? How much are you correcting her? How much do you hug her and spend time with her? Is she reassured that you love her? So you basically think she is a bully? Ok, why? What's behind it? Something is always behind it. It might be her, you, dad, kids, insecurity, thinking she is not smart, being always in trouble no matter how much she tries, but you still criticize her. Even being praised too much, do you excuse her behavior? I mean how much punishing is going on exactly? There is another sibling in the picture, right? Sounds like there is another kid in the family? How is that kid's behavior?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Could she have 'oppositional defiance'? Is her character like that of anyone in your family? I totally agree with the PP who said that "some things cannot be punished away." However, in interacting with kids like this I make clear my rules as in, "No, we don't use that kind of language in this house." I have quite often seen children who yell at their own parents behave in totally different way in my home because they know I will not invite them back if they do not. They also know that I have cancelled playdates if my own kids break my rules. As a teacher I have walked into a class of misbehaving kids and had them all quiet within 2 minutes. We all make mistakes but children these days have no incentive to try their best because they lose nothing by refusing to control themselves. I have a daughter who can be rude and obstinate and speak disrespectfully. "Is your behavior appropriate? No, it's not. Where is your phone? Thank you. You will not be seeing it again for six weeks." Before I took a harsh approach I would confirm with a professional that there are not other issues.

ODD isn’t in the DSM any longer. Kids were likely to be on the spectrum, have adhd or other learning or mental health difficulties. That said, op, read the kazdin method. It an evidence based way to help behavior change through positive reinforcement. The initial cohort were kids diagnosed with odd. Mansuedo also uses kazdin for ocd.

The big emotions and meltdown are related to executive functioning—how to regulate. Being “defiant” is related to flexible thinking. The last key piece to EF is working memory. If you have adhd or autism or whatever, and you get upset or stressed, information you could access in your working memory, might go out the window.

If you look in the sn forum, there’s group doing a virtual social skills group.

Op, I don’t think you’re hunting for a diagnosis but you seem to be rather judgemental of your DD. Please keep foremost in your mind the great things about her. The fact she’s great with her sibling is fantastic. Go with your gut b/c no one can diagnose your kid over the internet, sign her up to have a full neuropsychological evaluation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, your DD sounds a lot like my DD. She was diagnosed ADHD and I suspect anxiety as well. Even with a diagnosis and therapy, there is no easy fix. We’re considering medication at this point. She is improving with age though.

OP here. Thanks for this. If you don't mind: What age did you first notice symptoms, what age was she diagnosed, and what age is she now?

She’s always been high energy with big emotions but it started to appear out of the norm at 4 years old. She had a couple big meltdowns at camp that made us realize she needed more help. Diagnosed at 5 and is now 7.

So many girls with autism are misdiagnosed as having adhd and anxiety.

I’m the PP and that’s definitely something I think about. Especially when I read about Pathological Demand Avoidance. I honestly don’t think it matters what the diagnosis is though. Strategies are so child-specific.

[Anonymous]

My DD in first grade was diagnosed with ADHD this year. She had some signs of HFA but they don’t think that’s it. She does well in school but has a terrible time with transitions. She sets herself often, which is common with ADHD so I hear. She is not mean at all, she comes across as much younger and imature. No problems with play dates though she can play by herself for a long time. Sometimes ADHD is alongside other things though, so might not want to rule it out.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP again, the the Pp above who suggested we use the word "no"-- that comment you highlighted was not mine. We do use the word "no".

To the person who suggested I just wanted a diagnosis-- I would love nothing more than to *not* have a diagnosis. I would love nothing more than to be told I'm crazy, and my kid is normal. If, though, she has something going on, I want to help her, and my instinct is that she is more difficult than her peers. I asked for advice here because I realize it isn't always easy to understand what is normal and what isn't regarding you own kid's behavior.

Lastly, for the person who asked-- she has a younger sibling with whom she is absolutely fantastic. My husband and I comment almost daily about how surprised we are that she is incredibly kind and caring with her sibling-- much moreso than with friends. They play beautifully together, she is careful, and they seldom fight. It's almost weird, but great, and the best part of parenting, for me.

Hi, OP; new poster here. Your language above jumped out at me because that is how I often feel about my DD. She is 10, issues started emerging in early elementary, and she has anxiety, ADHD and now a HFA diagnosis too. So I feel like we're loaded up on diagnoses. BUT, most of our family and our friends would say she is "normal" - they don't see the hard stuff because she is bright, verbal, funny, & compensates really well, especially around adults. (Now, particularly, because we do medicate at low doses for the anxiety and ADHD.) But it can all fall to pieces at home, and friendships are hard. All that to say, these things are not mutually exclusive.

So, you have to parent the kid you have, whether or not you have any labels to apply to what is going on. I find that the diagnoses are so broad that while useful for providing a framework for interventions, they don't really capture my child. She is herself, wonderfully and maddeningly so. What has worked for us is talk therapy (for her, and for us), doing the Unstuck curriculum when she was older (helps with rigidity, engaging in non-preferred activities, and perspective taking), and now starting to think about social skills interventions. At your child's age, you might look up some resources at https://www.socialthinking.com/ (bonus - having a sale now!) to start talking about interacting with others and better understanding how her own choices affect others' feelings and behaviors towards her. I also liked the American Girls Smart Girls Guides at that age (Friendship and What to Say books are good). You will also find a lot of kind support and helpful suggestions over on the Kids with Special Needs forum.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So my daughter, who as far as we know is neurotypical, is very difficult. She is incredibly impulsive, and when she is upset, she makes rash decisions that result in unkind and defiant behavior. She has friends, but doesn't always treat them well. I worry constantly when in social situations with her (obviously not an issue now) that she will be unkind, actively not listen, or be the ring leader of unwanted behavior. She absolutely does not care at all about consequences. We also notice that the more strict and severe we are, the worse her behavior gets. We don't want to ignore bad behavior though, either. She is very smart, does well academically, makes friends, but playdates aren't reciprocated and I fear that her terrible attitude is catching up with her. Home life is generally quite happy, despite her difficult personality.

I see other sweet, kind first grade girls and worry about why my daughter is like this. She has not always been this way-- but it's been about a year and a half or so. It makes me sad that I find her so challenging and I worry for her in the future. Do tough first graders turn into impossible teenagers? What do I do about this?

Op,

This is a moment for intersection. It’s been over a month since your Dd has interacted with peers and several more months at least before she does again, yet most of your post is about your worries about her social interactions. Honestly, I have no idea why your daughter is so “difficult” but you need to look at your own anxiety before you consult anyone for your kid.

Hate autocorrect. Innerspection.

Innerspection is not a word

PP clearly meant introspection.

[Anonymous]

sounds similar to one of our children. We found out later that he has ADHD. Please get professional support. It helps alot.
Good luck.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Could she have 'oppositional defiance'? Is her character like that of anyone in your family? I totally agree with the PP who said that "some things cannot be punished away." However, in interacting with kids like this I make clear my rules as in, "No, we don't use that kind of language in this house." I have quite often seen children who yell at their own parents behave in totally different way in my home because they know I will not invite them back if they do not. They also know that I have cancelled playdates if my own kids break my rules. As a teacher I have walked into a class of misbehaving kids and had them all quiet within 2 minutes. We all make mistakes but children these days have no incentive to try their best because they lose nothing by refusing to control themselves. I have a daughter who can be rude and obstinate and speak disrespectfully. "Is your behavior appropriate? No, it's not. Where is your phone? Thank you. You will not be seeing it again for six weeks." Before I took a harsh approach I would confirm with a professional that there are not other issues.

ODD isn’t in the DSM any longer. Kids were likely to be on the spectrum, have adhd or other learning or mental health difficulties. That said, op, read the kazdin method. It an evidence based way to help behavior change through positive reinforcement. The initial cohort were kids diagnosed with odd. Mansuedo also uses kazdin for ocd.

The big emotions and meltdown are related to executive functioning—how to regulate. Being “defiant” is related to flexible thinking. The last key piece to EF is working memory. If you have adhd or autism or whatever, and you get upset or stressed, information you could access in your working memory, might go out the window.

If you look in the sn forum, there’s group doing a virtual social skills group.

Op, I don’t think you’re hunting for a diagnosis but you seem to be rather judgemental of your DD. Please keep foremost in your mind the great things about her. The fact she’s great with her sibling is fantastic. Go with your gut b/c no one can diagnose your kid over the internet, sign her up to have a full neuropsychological evaluation.

This.
Also, I think a diagnosis is important because there are key differences between any "disorder." How you guide her as a parent does depend on an understanding of where she's coming from. Imo.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Could she have 'oppositional defiance'? Is her character like that of anyone in your family? I totally agree with the PP who said that "some things cannot be punished away." However, in interacting with kids like this I make clear my rules as in, "No, we don't use that kind of language in this house." I have quite often seen children who yell at their own parents behave in totally different way in my home because they know I will not invite them back if they do not. They also know that I have cancelled playdates if my own kids break my rules. As a teacher I have walked into a class of misbehaving kids and had them all quiet within 2 minutes. We all make mistakes but children these days have no incentive to try their best because they lose nothing by refusing to control themselves. I have a daughter who can be rude and obstinate and speak disrespectfully. "Is your behavior appropriate? No, it's not. Where is your phone? Thank you. You will not be seeing it again for six weeks." Before I took a harsh approach I would confirm with a professional that there are not other issues.

ODD isn’t in the DSM any longer. Kids were likely to be on the spectrum, have adhd or other learning or mental health difficulties. That said, op, read the kazdin method. It an evidence based way to help behavior change through positive reinforcement. The initial cohort were kids diagnosed with odd. Mansuedo also uses kazdin for ocd.

The big emotions and meltdown are related to executive functioning—how to regulate. Being “defiant” is related to flexible thinking. The last key piece to EF is working memory. If you have adhd or autism or whatever, and you get upset or stressed, information you could access in your working memory, might go out the window.

If you look in the sn forum, there’s group doing a virtual social skills group.

Op, I don’t think you’re hunting for a diagnosis but you seem to be rather judgemental of your DD. Please keep foremost in your mind the great things about her. The fact she’s great with her sibling is fantastic. Go with your gut b/c no one can diagnose your kid over the internet, sign her up to have a full neuropsychological evaluation.

OP here. Thank you for this. We have been in touch with some therapists for an evaluation, but are waiting to do so in person. We would like to start a social skills group, but I don't think a virtual one will help much.

I appreciate your insight on being judgmental. I have moments of frustration (one during which I wrote this original post) when I feel a fairly hopeless. Other times I have moments when I think things are fine. Our daughter's behavior is definitely a source of stress in our family, though, so we need to address it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here. So we were planning to start a social skills group when the pandemic started. We considered trying to start with a therapist online, but I don't really think my daughter would connect with someone over Zoom and we are going to wait until we can have in-person sessions.

NP- The therapy isn’t for her, it’s for you. I get weekly parenting coaching via tele health. The therapist and I discuss DS’s behavior from the week, and she gives my a customized plan for the week ahead. Total game changer for our family dynamic.

[Anonymous]

K as the trigger, fine during the summer, worse again once school started is highly suggestive of something triggered either by her particular school or by a formal schooling environment. I’d try to get to the bottom of which.