Really Difficult First Grade Girl

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How was your daughter as a toddler? My daughter exhibits ALL these behaviors exactly and she’s 4. It started at 2. We were in OT which was helping and I was planning to do a social skills group before covid-19 happened. We met with a neuropysch who said it’s possible she has very high functioning autism and could even fall off the curve in the future but if she’s improving with OT then we should wait to do testing. Life at home is hard many many days. Hugs.

So, beyond diagnosis what are you doing to change things at home to make things better?

We give 2 “really good choices” to avoid meltdowns and remain in control. We never use the word “no” but say things like we can’t do xyz but how about this? Constant reminder to focus on herself. When she is mean to friends we were told not to say that’s mean but redirect and make a huge deal about something the other kid said. Example would be a kid says I’m super tall and have long hair!” My daughter will say “I’m taller than you! Haha”. I step in and say “oh my goodness Anna your hair is long! You must love to style your hair. Did you know Amy loves to do Elsa braids?” My daughter is crazy competitive even over the most ridiculous stuff and it’s because she’s insecure. At 4 kids are already pulling away from her because of her behavior and she lashes out in retaliation. She’s so sweet it’s just like she’s socially awkward. Like others said you don’t need to ignore the bad behavior but seriously react to the good behavior and discuss it again and again in calm situations. We’re also working with a childhood behaviorist who did a home study and school study and she had some great ideas.

OP, maybe it's time to try some "no." You have let this get too far out of control.

I’m not the OP. I was advised by a neuropsych and child behavior specialist not to say the actual word no. Believe me my kid is still told no without me using the word. It’s actually been super helpful for the past 6 months we have been following these directions.

[Anonymous]

OP again, the the Pp above who suggested we use the word "no"-- that comment you highlighted was not mine. We do use the word "no".

To the person who suggested I just wanted a diagnosis-- I would love nothing more than to *not* have a diagnosis. I would love nothing more than to be told I'm crazy, and my kid is normal. If, though, she has something going on, I want to help her, and my instinct is that she is more difficult than her peers. I asked for advice here because I realize it isn't always easy to understand what is normal and what isn't regarding you own kid's behavior.

Lastly, for the person who asked-- she has a younger sibling with whom she is absolutely fantastic. My husband and I comment almost daily about how surprised we are that she is incredibly kind and caring with her sibling-- much moreso than with friends. They play beautifully together, she is careful, and they seldom fight. It's almost weird, but great, and the best part of parenting, for me.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How was your daughter as a toddler? My daughter exhibits ALL these behaviors exactly and she’s 4. It started at 2. We were in OT which was helping and I was planning to do a social skills group before covid-19 happened. We met with a neuropysch who said it’s possible she has very high functioning autism and could even fall off the curve in the future but if she’s improving with OT then we should wait to do testing. Life at home is hard many many days. Hugs.

So, beyond diagnosis what are you doing to change things at home to make things better?

We give 2 “really good choices” to avoid meltdowns and remain in control. We never use the word “no” but say things like we can’t do xyz but how about this? Constant reminder to focus on herself. When she is mean to friends we were told not to say that’s mean but redirect and make a huge deal about something the other kid said. Example would be a kid says I’m super tall and have long hair!” My daughter will say “I’m taller than you! Haha”. I step in and say “oh my goodness Anna your hair is long! You must love to style your hair. Did you know Amy loves to do Elsa braids?” My daughter is crazy competitive even over the most ridiculous stuff and it’s because she’s insecure. At 4 kids are already pulling away from her because of her behavior and she lashes out in retaliation. She’s so sweet it’s just like she’s socially awkward. Like others said you don’t need to ignore the bad behavior but seriously react to the good behavior and discuss it again and again in calm situations. We’re also working with a childhood behaviorist who did a home study and school study and she had some great ideas.

OP, maybe it's time to try some "no." You have let this get too far out of control.

I’m not the OP. I was advised by a neuropsych and child behavior specialist not to say the actual word no. Believe me my kid is still told no without me using the word. It’s actually been super helpful for the past 6 months we have been following these directions.

Okay. Watch the kids keep pulling away from her, though.

[Anonymous]

A slightly different perspective OP. My daughter, now in 2nd grade, has also had social difficulties, though more on the other side of the spectrum, i.e. she is very withdrawn and anxious, with a tentative diagnosis of selective mutism. I say all this because it led us to ask and be allowed to be present at preschool/K, etc. to observe, and her therapist did at several junctures too... and OMG, the idea that 5-7 year old girls are "sweet" and "docile" could not be further from the truth. My daughter is no peach, very withdrawn and sometimes prickly. But I'd say less that 25% of girls in this range were consistently "nice"--they excluded constantly, ganged up on each other, drama every week, zero compromising among the socially dominant on games, choices, etc. It was an eyeopener! It sounds less like your daughter is an outlier, and more that she does not know how to "play to the audience"--i.e. kids vs. teachers v. parents. So agree with PPs that it sounds more like social deficits than a character that is simply "difficult" or "mean."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How was your daughter as a toddler? My daughter exhibits ALL these behaviors exactly and she’s 4. It started at 2. We were in OT which was helping and I was planning to do a social skills group before covid-19 happened. We met with a neuropysch who said it’s possible she has very high functioning autism and could even fall off the curve in the future but if she’s improving with OT then we should wait to do testing. Life at home is hard many many days. Hugs.

So, beyond diagnosis what are you doing to change things at home to make things better?

We give 2 “really good choices” to avoid meltdowns and remain in control. We never use the word “no” but say things like we can’t do xyz but how about this? Constant reminder to focus on herself. When she is mean to friends we were told not to say that’s mean but redirect and make a huge deal about something the other kid said. Example would be a kid says I’m super tall and have long hair!” My daughter will say “I’m taller than you! Haha”. I step in and say “oh my goodness Anna your hair is long! You must love to style your hair. Did you know Amy loves to do Elsa braids?” My daughter is crazy competitive even over the most ridiculous stuff and it’s because she’s insecure. At 4 kids are already pulling away from her because of her behavior and she lashes out in retaliation. She’s so sweet it’s just like she’s socially awkward. Like others said you don’t need to ignore the bad behavior but seriously react to the good behavior and discuss it again and again in calm situations. We’re also working with a childhood behaviorist who did a home study and school study and she had some great ideas.

OP, maybe it's time to try some "no." You have let this get too far out of control.

I’m not the OP. I was advised by a neuropsych and child behavior specialist not to say the actual word no. Believe me my kid is still told no without me using the word. It’s actually been super helpful for the past 6 months we have been following these directions.

Okay. Watch the kids keep pulling away from her, though.

What do you suggest?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP again, the the Pp above who suggested we use the word "no"-- that comment you highlighted was not mine. We do use the word "no".

To the person who suggested I just wanted a diagnosis-- I would love nothing more than to *not* have a diagnosis. I would love nothing more than to be told I'm crazy, and my kid is normal. If, though, she has something going on, I want to help her, and my instinct is that she is more difficult than her peers. I asked for advice here because I realize it isn't always easy to understand what is normal and what isn't regarding you own kid's behavior.

Lastly, for the person who asked-- she has a younger sibling with whom she is absolutely fantastic. My husband and I comment almost daily about how surprised we are that she is incredibly kind and caring with her sibling-- much moreso than with friends. They play beautifully together, she is careful, and they seldom fight. It's almost weird, but great, and the best part of parenting, for me.

I spend a lot of time on the special needs forum because I have a DS with a diagnosed SN, but to add perspective, it’s been mentioned before that most parents only look for a diagnosis when they are spent trying to help DC themselves.

[Anonymous]

OP, your DD sounds a lot like my DD. She was diagnosed ADHD and I suspect anxiety as well. Even with a diagnosis and therapy, there is no easy fix. We’re considering medication at this point. She is improving with age though.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, your DD sounds a lot like my DD. She was diagnosed ADHD and I suspect anxiety as well. Even with a diagnosis and therapy, there is no easy fix. We’re considering medication at this point. She is improving with age though.

OP here. Thanks for this. If you don't mind: What age did you first notice symptoms, what age was she diagnosed, and what age is she now?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, your DD sounds a lot like my DD. She was diagnosed ADHD and I suspect anxiety as well. Even with a diagnosis and therapy, there is no easy fix. We’re considering medication at this point. She is improving with age though.

OP here. Thanks for this. If you don't mind: What age did you first notice symptoms, what age was she diagnosed, and what age is she now?

She’s always been high energy with big emotions but it started to appear out of the norm at 4 years old. She had a couple big meltdowns at camp that made us realize she needed more help. Diagnosed at 5 and is now 7.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A slightly different perspective. My daughter has a friend like your daughter. I feel bad about it, but I absolutely do not let my daughter play with her outside of school. I don’t want her to be negatively influenced. Really listen to previous posters, get her help so it doesn’t affect her long term.

NP- this is so unhelpful. OP is trying to help her daughter, that's why she's asking. Also maybe you should be teaching your daughter about compassion and how it's important to play with people who have issues sometimes.

This is nuts. You want me to teach my kid to hang out with jerks and allow herself to be treated badly regularly? No. I’m teaching my daughter that she deserves to be treated kindly and she should seek out people who treat her that way. I’m not going to set my daughter up to be abused.

My daughter has special needs children in her class and is very kind to them and plays with them. It is important for kids to play with all types of people and to have compassion. But she does not have to put up with continual unkind behavior.

[Anonymous]

Could she have 'oppositional defiance'? Is her character like that of anyone in your family? I totally agree with the PP who said that "some things cannot be punished away." However, in interacting with kids like this I make clear my rules as in, "No, we don't use that kind of language in this house." I have quite often seen children who yell at their own parents behave in totally different way in my home because they know I will not invite them back if they do not. They also know that I have cancelled playdates if my own kids break my rules. As a teacher I have walked into a class of misbehaving kids and had them all quiet within 2 minutes. We all make mistakes but children these days have no incentive to try their best because they lose nothing by refusing to control themselves. I have a daughter who can be rude and obstinate and speak disrespectfully. "Is your behavior appropriate? No, it's not. Where is your phone? Thank you. You will not be seeing it again for six weeks." Before I took a harsh approach I would confirm with a professional that there are not other issues.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A slightly different perspective. My daughter has a friend like your daughter. I feel bad about it, but I absolutely do not let my daughter play with her outside of school. I don’t want her to be negatively influenced. Really listen to previous posters, get her help so it doesn’t affect her long term.

NP- this is so unhelpful. OP is trying to help her daughter, that's why she's asking. Also maybe you should be teaching your daughter about compassion and how it's important to play with people who have issues sometimes.

This is nuts. You want me to teach my kid to hang out with jerks and allow herself to be treated badly regularly? No. I’m teaching my daughter that she deserves to be treated kindly and she should seek out people who treat her that way. I’m not going to set my daughter up to be abused.

My daughter has special needs children in her class and is very kind to them and plays with them. It is important for kids to play with all types of people and to have compassion. But she does not have to put up with continual unkind behavior.

This is controlling. Maybe someday you'll see that. Hopefully soon enough to have a good relationship with your DC.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So my daughter, who as far as we know is neurotypical, is very difficult. She is incredibly impulsive, and when she is upset, she makes rash decisions that result in unkind and defiant behavior. She has friends, but doesn't always treat them well. I worry constantly when in social situations with her (obviously not an issue now) that she will be unkind, actively not listen, or be the ring leader of unwanted behavior. She absolutely does not care at all about consequences. We also notice that the more strict and severe we are, the worse her behavior gets. We don't want to ignore bad behavior though, either. She is very smart, does well academically, makes friends, but playdates aren't reciprocated and I fear that her terrible attitude is catching up with her. Home life is generally quite happy, despite her difficult personality.

I see other sweet, kind first grade girls and worry about why my daughter is like this. She has not always been this way-- but it's been about a year and a half or so. It makes me sad that I find her so challenging and I worry for her in the future. Do tough first graders turn into impossible teenagers? What do I do about this?

You defined her as neurotypical and then when on to describe her as not neurotypical

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, your DD sounds a lot like my DD. She was diagnosed ADHD and I suspect anxiety as well. Even with a diagnosis and therapy, there is no easy fix. We’re considering medication at this point. She is improving with age though.

OP here. Thanks for this. If you don't mind: What age did you first notice symptoms, what age was she diagnosed, and what age is she now?

She’s always been high energy with big emotions but it started to appear out of the norm at 4 years old. She had a couple big meltdowns at camp that made us realize she needed more help. Diagnosed at 5 and is now 7.

So many girls with autism are misdiagnosed as having adhd and anxiety.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here. So we were planning to start a social skills group when the pandemic started. We considered trying to start with a therapist online, but I don't really think my daughter would connect with someone over Zoom and we are going to wait until we can have in-person sessions.

For Pp who asked, she was a "normal" toddler and preschooler, we first saw signs of this behavior in kindergarten.

I have also considered ADHD because she is a class clown and she is so impulsive, but she is also 6.5 and is actually very focused when it comes to schoolwork. I realize that does not rule out ADHD, but I figured we could speak to a counselor about this once the pandemic passes. Her school has not brought up ADHD or other testing, and they would if they thought it might be a concern. Perhaps she is still too young to seriously consider that possibility.

As far as consequences, they just don't work with her-- behavior spirals with her, and if we start giving consequences, she doubles down until we find ourselves in a deep power struggle. Positive praise does work, and we try to focus on that. Charts help initially, but their effect wears off with time.

I guess what I'm hoping to hear is that in not doomed to have a challenging kid for the next 20 years, and that there is still hope that she will grow out of this. I also really wonder why this started in kindergarten, with no previous signs of this kind of behavior. It's hard to have negative feelings about your own kid.

One thing that is never said about autism is that many of them have issues doing things outside of their preferred activity. That's one of the reasons school is so hard for them.