How to Cope - school asking that child be held back one year

[Anonymous]

OP here. I'm overwhelmed by the outpouring of advice and suggestions. I take them seriously. I truly appreciate people taking the time to respond. Have no idea what we will do. Our choices are: 1) convince the school to let him go on to the next grade with a shadow/assistant 2) homeschool 3) put him on alternative meds that have no side effects and watch to see how he does on these while we work on the core issues simultaneously.

Again, I didn't mean to imply Mclean, Lab, Lowell were for 'affected' children only. Likely they are not for affected children at all. They're fine schools that provide excellent programs for all children.

Would I consider meds - no, probably not. His ADHD, while it does affect school, is considered mild. Meds are not going to fix the core issue and we are trying out a program that is supposed to fix the core issue. When meds are removed, the attention issues return right? So I would like to avoid that lifelong dependency on meds. I don't think there is anything wrong with putting children on meds. It s simply a different choice of treatment. We just decided not to, thats all, and thats okay too.

[Anonymous]

OP, I am a PP. We've worked with the Greenspans too and I hear where you are coming from. We did not have this particular issue with the school but I really feel for you. Have you talked with Dr. Greenspan since they made the request? Can he perhaps put you in touch with an ADD coach who can work with DS's teacher or is the school not open to that? I have many friends who have worked with him and he was very helpful to them regarding schools. I would definitely reach out to him if you have not done so already.

I think that someone like Suzie Blattner or another consultant could really help you take your best shot at your first option. I talked with her about possibly homeschooling for a year and she can really help you think through how that choice is likely to impact future applications, how best to frame it, etc. Just be aware that it is likely that with a less than stellar rec from his current school and a year of homeschooling, it is really likely that your only option will be public. Schools will imagine that the problems are significant no matter what you say, unfortunately.

Since you are already thinking about options like homeschooling I'd take a look at Kelly Dorfman's site. Some kids are really helped by supplements nd

[Anonymous]

oops

and yours may be one of them.

Good luck to you OP, you must be feeling so beseiged.

[Anonymous]

ADHD meds do not cause lifelong dependency. In fact, a sizable number of kids outgrow ADHD. And while they can cause side effects, there are so many different varieties out there, one should be able to find drugs that don't. I have two children with ADHD, both on different meds with no side effects (except that they don't have to work so hard to keep it together so they can actually excel at school and socially).

You have a lost of misconceptions about meds. I won't push this point except to reenforce the overwhelmingly recognized phenomenon that kids with ADHD that are not treated have an increased chance of drug and alcohol abuse. Google that and you will see.

My daughter is also "mild". She could probably do OK without meds. But before she went on meds she was so unhappy, would break down when she came home from school, felt bad about herself. As a mother, why would I withhold treatment that could help her? She is now a straight A student at a big 3 school and, most of all, a happy kid.

[Anonymous]

I'm not sure that having a shadow is less stigmatizing than repeating a grade. I've only known of that option being used for kids on the spectrum, typically in preschool. It could be that the use of stimulants for kids is so prevalent in this area that it doesn't get to that point for older kids with ADHD diagnoses. Did the school request the shadow?

It is so hard to have a child who does not have severe special needs but who has problems in a typical educational environment. My heart goes out to you, OP. I hope that things get better soon.

[Anonymous]

To the PP who suggested that it might be boredom, one of the hallmarks of ADD is that it impacts a person in a variety of areas, so in this case at school and socially. If he has less ability to attend, then his social interactions aren't the same. He is more likely to go from thing to thing than to engage in the same way as a peer might. It's a matter of degree.

Let's put the ADD diagnosis aside: OP, it sounds like your DC may not necessarily be bored but that the quality of his interactions are diminished, leading him to flit from activity to activity in a vain attempt to recapture each activitiy's initial intensity. I'm a PP and, again, I would recommend that you set aside the academic concerns and focus on his core behavioural problems. If DC is really bright and your home environment is as enriching as you indicate, he is not going to lose pace with his peers. A lot of kids read early, but most of their "late reading" classmates close the gap by second or third grade in terms of comprehension and proficiency; however, DCs do not necessarily learn the social skills mastered in early elementary as easily in 4th, 5th, etc. This is when the social stigma of not being able to make friends, play and learn well in groups become even more apparent.

Good luck on this journey.

[Anonymous]

It seems odd to me that you are worried about what would happen when the meds are taken away, but not as much when the homeschooling is taken away, when your DC has to join the larger world. Sometimes homeschooling is a necessary option, for children who really cannot function in a school environment, even with interventions and the right school. But I have seen home schooling go disasterously wrong. It is a difficult task, done right, and the lack of socialization is a real problem as well as maintaining structure. I have seen families who homeschool miss developmental difficulties for too long to benefit from early intervention. At home, the challenges can be avoided, but they can't be avoided forever.

If your DC's school does not have experience with shadows that could be a disaster as well. Shadows need to be invisible, extra hands in the classroom but no one, particularly the other students, should know the shadow is dedicated to your child. With more profoundly disabled children, that can't always be done. But with a child like your's who blends in otherwise, handling the shadow badly could have consequences. The other downside of a shadow is that sometimes the teacher then thinks she doesn't have to develop a teaching relationship with your child, that the shadow will take care of it. I would be particularly concerned about this dynamic in an unsupportive school.

Again, it seems like you are looking at labor-intensive, round-about, likely inadequate solutions because of your attitude towards meds. At the very least, i think it is really important that you find a supportive school.

[Anonymous]

OP, What are alternative meds?

I really think that it would help to talk with an educational consultant about all this. They know what accomodations different schools have been willing to make, the likely impact of different choices at this point, etc.

If you add a shadow people are likely to think that your son has been given an Asperger's diagnosis and it is likely to impact him tremendously socially. You understandably worry about the impact of holding him back in school but are now considering taking him out of school altogether. I worry that the stress and anxiety you must be experiencing is causing you to take really polarized views of things and you might make decisions you may later regret. Did either you or your husband have attention issues as a child? I'm wondering if emotions from that may be driving some of this?

I think for most people the 3 obvious choices are:
1) Try medication and keep doing other things in the meantime, then try to taper, 2) Repeat K if otherwise happy at current school, or 3) Move to a school with smaller classes and teachers with experience with ADHA if possible.

McLean does a beautiful job coaching executive functions with older kids, not as familiar with their lower school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:[i]however, DCs do not necessarily learn the social skills mastered in early elementary as easily in 4th, 5th, etc. This is when the social stigma of not being able to make friends, play and learn well in groups become even more apparent.

This is what you might gain from repeating K, where the focus really is on social skills to an extent. But only if the underlying issues are effectively addressed in a timely way so he can use the "extra" time to catch up. IMHO those are the kids who do benefit from redshirting (as well as kids close to the cutoff who are actually neurotypical and just immature). Are you and your husband in agreement about this?

His issues may be "mild" but the combo of his current teacher, his current school, his issues and your not likely to pay dividends in the short term approach are a disaster. You don't want to put him in a school which may be more equipped to deal with him but are considering taking him out of school entirely or adding a shadow? You realize that if you pull him to homeschool you will not be likely to be admitted to another private, right? You realize that adding a shadow will have at least some ramifications too, right?

If Dr. Greenspan suggested that meds might me a possibility in 6 months, what does he say now that you can't wait that long? Are you resisting talking about it with him due to your resistance to what he might say?

OP, I could be totally off base but you strike me as someone who has been in denial about all of this for some time. Did you do OT or any other intervention when DS was younger? Was it only when the school forced your hand that you went to Dr. Greenspan? You need to deal with your emotions around these issues, you need to make some good and serious decisions very quicly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, I am a PP. We've worked with the Greenspans too and I hear where you are coming from. We did not have this particular issue with the school but I really feel for you. Have you talked with Dr. Greenspan since they made the request? Can he perhaps put you in touch with an ADD coach who can work with DS's teacher or is the school not open to that? I have many friends who have worked with him and he was very helpful to them regarding schools. I would definitely reach out to him if you have not done so already.

I think that someone like Suzie Blattner or another consultant could really help you take your best shot at your first option. I talked with her about possibly homeschooling for a year and she can really help you think through how that choice is likely to impact future applications, how best to frame it, etc. Just be aware that it is likely that with a less than stellar rec from his current school and a year of homeschooling, it is really likely that your only option will be public. Schools will imagine that the problems are significant no matter what you say, unfortunately.

Since you are already thinking about options like homeschooling I'd take a look at Kelly Dorfman's site. Some kids are really helped by supplements nd

It's so hard to see Dr. Greenspan. Appts are scheduled weeks or months in advance. And I need help pretty quickly. I would love an ADHD/ADD coach to speak to our school. I can email his office and try to ask for one.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:ADHD meds do not cause lifelong dependency. In fact, a sizable number of kids outgrow ADHD. And while they can cause side effects, there are so many different varieties out there, one should be able to find drugs that don't. I have two children with ADHD, both on different meds with no side effects (except that they don't have to work so hard to keep it together so they can actually excel at school and socially).

You have a lost of misconceptions about meds. I won't push this point except to reenforce the overwhelmingly recognized phenomenon that kids with ADHD that are not treated have an increased chance of drug and alcohol abuse. Google that and you will see.

My daughter is also "mild". She could probably do OK without meds. But before she went on meds she was so unhappy, would break down when she came home from school, felt bad about herself. As a mother, why would I withhold treatment that could help her? She is now a straight A student at a big 3 school and, most of all, a happy kid.

OP here. Sorry, did not mean to imply ADHD meds themselves cause lifelong medical dependency. I know they absolutely create no dependencies. What I meant to say is that I worry that my son will want to rely on the meds to function optimally for a long period of time rather than taking the longer route. I just want to look for something that will go to treating the cause of the problem. I, too, had ADHD I think as a child but it went undiagnosed. I, too, outgrew it eventually but it took many years. MY son seems a bit more impacted though. His attention issues are just a bit bigger than mine were. Yes, I'm also aware that some ADHD kids grow up to have alcohol/drug problems too. It could happen with DS. But I'm not worried about that at this stage because there are still other options for us to try out that may work. He has a very strong self esteem, at least right now, and we are religious too. So he will likely learn to rely on his faith too. Hopefully this will help protect him from this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:To the PP who suggested that it might be boredom, one of the hallmarks of ADD is that it impacts a person in a variety of areas, so in this case at school and socially. If he has less ability to attend, then his social interactions aren't the same. He is more likely to go from thing to thing than to engage in the same way as a peer might. It's a matter of degree.

Let's put the ADD diagnosis aside: OP, it sounds like your DC may not necessarily be bored but that the quality of his interactions are diminished, leading him to flit from activity to activity in a vain attempt to recapture each activitiy's initial intensity. I'm a PP and, again, I would recommend that you set aside the academic concerns and focus on his core behavioural problems. If DC is really bright and your home environment is as enriching as you indicate, he is not going to lose pace with his peers. A lot of kids read early, but most of their "late reading" classmates close the gap by second or third grade in terms of comprehension and proficiency; however, DCs do not necessarily learn the social skills mastered in early elementary as easily in 4th, 5th, etc. This is when the social stigma of not being able to make friends, play and learn well in groups become even more apparent.

Good luck on this journey.

Yes, I did hear that early readers don't necessarily keep that lead advantage as they get older. Much of early learning is dependent on memorization and so early readers and precocious children with a big vocabulary are perceived highly intelligent. But these skills don't necessarily prepare them for more higher level, abstract thinking required in higher level coursework when they are older. DC is just advanced in the skills that his particular school looks at right now for kindergarteners. As for social skills, he has social skills. He interacts well with children. He is very polite, sweet with them. He asks what they want to play. If somebody is upset, he tries to find compromises and tries to comfort them. He intuitively knows what it means to respect personal space. What he is lacking is focus and attention on play for extended periods of time. He gets distracted.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It seems odd to me that you are worried about what would happen when the meds are taken away, but not as much when the homeschooling is taken away, when your DC has to join the larger world. Sometimes homeschooling is a necessary option, for children who really cannot function in a school environment, even with interventions and the right school. But I have seen home schooling go disasterously wrong. It is a difficult task, done right, and the lack of socialization is a real problem as well as maintaining structure. I have seen families who homeschool miss developmental difficulties for too long to benefit from early intervention. At home, the challenges can be avoided, but they can't be avoided forever.

If your DC's school does not have experience with shadows that could be a disaster as well. Shadows need to be invisible, extra hands in the classroom but no one, particularly the other students, should know the shadow is dedicated to your child. With more profoundly disabled children, that can't always be done. But with a child like your's who blends in otherwise, handling the shadow badly could have consequences. The other downside of a shadow is that sometimes the teacher then thinks she doesn't have to develop a teaching relationship with your child, that the shadow will take care of it. I would be particularly concerned about this dynamic in an unsupportive school.

Again, it seems like you are looking at labor-intensive, round-about, likely inadequate solutions because of your attitude towards meds. At the very least, i think it is really important that you find a supportive school.

Yes, this is precisely what we are thinking also, that the shadow must be seen as an extra pair of hands in the classroom. DC as well as the other children should not know the shadow is there for DC only.

[Anonymous]

OP, Is your son an actual, current patient of Dr. Greenspan? If so, have you tried calling his office? I think for something like this he would talk to you on the phone fairly soon. I wouldn't email about a tangental issue, I'd call and leave him a msg that current school X is insisting that your DC be held back because of his inattentive behavior and that you need help deciding what to do next. If you are not a current patient, who made the diagnosis?

Am I right in guessing that this convo with the school wasn't on Friday? After all, you have had time to look at all of those other schools, right? But you haven't called Greenspan, if your son is a patient. Why? And now you are thinking about emailing? About a coach? When your son might not even continue at the school? He can't help you if you don't give him good, complete information and if you don't convey a sense of urgency. Having read Playground Politics and knowing Dr. Greenspan, I am fairly sure that he'd appreciate the chance to weigh in on the options that you are considering. Repeating a grade, having a shadow or being homeschooled will all have a huge impact on DC. How were you planning to explain the shadow to DC? Has the school actually agreed to it? Did the school request it? Are you sure that the school is willing to have him return?

One other question - what is it that you are envisioning the shadow will do in the classroom? Constantly redirect? Won't the OTHER children find their presence distracting? How do you imagine other children and families would react? My child attended St. Columba's and I know that some families were resistant to having children who needed a shadow in the classroom with their child. A preschool with a special needs outreach is one thing. A very pricey private school is something else.

I know that you are feeling panicked but you don't seem to be thinking all that clearly. If you have access to someone like Greenspan, why not involve him, unless you think he may advocate a trial of meds?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:[i]however, DCs do not necessarily learn the social skills mastered in early elementary as easily in 4th, 5th, etc. This is when the social stigma of not being able to make friends, play and learn well in groups become even more apparent.

You realize that adding a shadow will have at least some ramifications too, right?

If Dr. Greenspan suggested that meds might me a possibility in 6 months, what does he say now that you can't wait that long? Are you resisting talking about it with him due to your resistance to what he might say?

OP, I could be totally off base but you strike me as someone who has been in denial about all of this for some time. Did you do OT or any other intervention when DS was younger? Was it only when the school forced your hand that you went to Dr. Greenspan? You need to deal with your emotions around these issues, you need to make some good and serious decisions very quicly.

He has been doing OT for over 2 years now, to improve muscle tone, balance, coordination, and to help him get over his sensory needs. he's now pretty relaxed and calm most of the time but of course we still do gym and other movement classes. He has been in Dr. Greenspans care for 2 yrs also. His attention issues were not so obvious to us until he turned about 5. Previous teachers said he was wiggly and fidgety but still within normal range. Now at age 5, it's clear that the expectations are increasing in school and he's having a harder time following the crowd. So now our attention and focus is on the ADHD symptoms he's exhbiting.