What makes a guy a loser?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP you sound immature. So does the tux douche-bag poster.

In any event, now that most of our circle is in their 40s, i think i can use hindsight to see what traits at 29 took friends down the loser versus not loser path.

The ONLY things i think the "non loser" men had in common 20 years ago is:

- Hardworking
- Kind

Seriously. That's it.

I look at our circle of successful marriages (happy partnerships, still love each other, limited resentment, no real financial worries (anywhere from middle class to super rich)) and i can think of guys who, twenty years ago:
- were student poor
- were minimum wage poor
- "only" made $50k
- didn't go to college
- played video games (they all did)
- slept in (they all did)
- didn't tend to appointments (common)
- didn't have a tux (horror!)
- slept in late (this is also really common. DH and i were always 10:30am on weekends in our 20s!)
- don't read (DH still doesn't read books!)
- don't eat well (ahh to be 20 again and eat like shit)
- didn't have married friends (most of our circle went to grad school, which really pushes off guy's marrying age to their 30s)
- didn't keep their apartment clean or lived in dirty group houses

None of these are red flags at 29. Age 29 is a time when a lot of people are still in their life-building years and making sacrifices for the future.

But if i were a guy and knew OP were keeping checklists like this, I would think she was a major loser.

PS on the mom thing, i don't think that makes him a loser. But it is a red flag to be aware of if you are considering marriage. That mom will always be hovering.

I completely agree.

Me too. Now that I'm of an age where so many friends are going through their first divorces, it seems really petty to dismiss a person who doesn't have a passport in their 20s. You want a partner for life, not a partner for now. There are more difficult situations in life to navigate than black tie events and brunch, and if you can take a look far into the future, you'll want a good communicator who is kind, emotionally available, and hard-working.

[Anonymous]

Loser flags for me
1. Doesn’t have a job, can’t keep a job, doesn’t have a vision of what they want to do with their career. Salary doesn’t matter to me, it’s about purpose, passion, and work ethic.
2. Doesn’t know how to “adult” once they have been out of college 2-3 years. An adult goes to the dentist twice a year, keeps their car maintained and registered, gets haircuts regularly, buys their own clothes, can buy groceries and cook some basic meals, can manage a budget, etc.

I don’t think being close to your family of origin makes you a loser. If that is important to him and you don’t see yourself fitting into that dynamic, then you are not a good fit. I’m not close like that to my family, but I wouldn’t think of less of people that are close knit with their family.

[Anonymous]

A loser to me is a guy who is married and "half-jokingly" propositions a neighbor/friend, under the guise of being drunk.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Loser flags for me
1. Doesn’t have a job, can’t keep a job, doesn’t have a vision of what they want to do with their career. Salary doesn’t matter to me, it’s about purpose, passion, and work ethic.
2. Doesn’t know how to “adult” once they have been out of college 2-3 years. An adult goes to the dentist twice a year, keeps their car maintained and registered, gets haircuts regularly, buys their own clothes, can buy groceries and cook some basic meals, can manage a budget, etc.

I don’t think being close to your family of origin makes you a loser. If that is important to him and you don’t see yourself fitting into that dynamic, then you are not a good fit. I’m not close like that to my family, but I wouldn’t think of less of people that are close knit with their family.

I would be curious to tease #1 out, especially the part of having a vision of where they want to go in life. I am a guy, make good money but have no aspirations to being in the rat race and elevating to executive level. I am happy to have a flexible job that provides me ample PTO during the year and gives me the flexibility to leave early to pick kids up, go to dr appts, etc. I work hard at work and have reached a good level at a company. Basically, my life outside of work defines me - not work.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Loser flags for me
1. Doesn’t have a job, can’t keep a job, doesn’t have a vision of what they want to do with their career. Salary doesn’t matter to me, it’s about purpose, passion, and work ethic.
2. Doesn’t know how to “adult” once they have been out of college 2-3 years. An adult goes to the dentist twice a year, keeps their car maintained and registered, gets haircuts regularly, buys their own clothes, can buy groceries and cook some basic meals, can manage a budget, etc.

I don’t think being close to your family of origin makes you a loser. If that is important to him and you don’t see yourself fitting into that dynamic, then you are not a good fit. I’m not close like that to my family, but I wouldn’t think of less of people that are close knit with their family.

I would be curious to tease #1 out, especially the part of having a vision of where they want to go in life. I am a guy, make good money but have no aspirations to being in the rat race and elevating to executive level. I am happy to have a flexible job that provides me ample PTO during the year and gives me the flexibility to leave early to pick kids up, go to dr appts, etc. I work hard at work and have reached a good level at a company. Basically, my life outside of work defines me - not work.

As someone married to a largely-absent workaholic, this would be fine with me.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Loser flags for me
1. Doesn’t have a job, can’t keep a job, doesn’t have a vision of what they want to do with their career. Salary doesn’t matter to me, it’s about purpose, passion, and work ethic.
2. Doesn’t know how to “adult” once they have been out of college 2-3 years. An adult goes to the dentist twice a year, keeps their car maintained and registered, gets haircuts regularly, buys their own clothes, can buy groceries and cook some basic meals, can manage a budget, etc.

I don’t think being close to your family of origin makes you a loser. If that is important to him and you don’t see yourself fitting into that dynamic, then you are not a good fit. I’m not close like that to my family, but I wouldn’t think of less of people that are close knit with their family.

I would be curious to tease #1 out, especially the part of having a vision of where they want to go in life. I am a guy, make good money but have no aspirations to being in the rat race and elevating to executive level. I am happy to have a flexible job that provides me ample PTO during the year and gives me the flexibility to leave early to pick kids up, go to dr appts, etc. I work hard at work and have reached a good level at a company. Basically, my life outside of work defines me - not work.

As someone married to a largely-absent workaholic, this would be fine with me.

There really is a balance. My DH, now retired, was very ambitious but he was great at focusing and keeping things simple at work. This was great for his career because he accomplished a lot. But it was also great for us because he was always home by 7 or 7:30 and did not work at home in the evenings or on weekends. Many people are workaholics because they are trying to do everything without focusing on the right things. I think it also helped that he knew how much we all loved him and wanted him around.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Loser flags for me
1. Doesn’t have a job, can’t keep a job, doesn’t have a vision of what they want to do with their career. Salary doesn’t matter to me, it’s about purpose, passion, and work ethic.
2. Doesn’t know how to “adult” once they have been out of college 2-3 years. An adult goes to the dentist twice a year, keeps their car maintained and registered, gets haircuts regularly, buys their own clothes, can buy groceries and cook some basic meals, can manage a budget, etc.

I don’t think being close to your family of origin makes you a loser. If that is important to him and you don’t see yourself fitting into that dynamic, then you are not a good fit. I’m not close like that to my family, but I wouldn’t think of less of people that are close knit with their family.

I would be curious to tease #1 out, especially the part of having a vision of where they want to go in life. I am a guy, make good money but have no aspirations to being in the rat race and elevating to executive level. I am happy to have a flexible job that provides me ample PTO during the year and gives me the flexibility to leave early to pick kids up, go to dr appts, etc. I work hard at work and have reached a good level at a company. Basically, my life outside of work defines me - not work.

As someone married to a largely-absent workaholic, this would be fine with me.

There really is a balance. My DH, now retired, was very ambitious but he was great at focusing and keeping things simple at work. This was great for his career because he accomplished a lot. But it was also great for us because he was always home by 7 or 7:30 and did not work at home in the evenings or on weekends. Many people are workaholics because they are trying to do everything without focusing on the right things. I think it also helped that he knew how much we all loved him and wanted him around.

That's great. I'm PP who raised the question - I'm generally at work by 8:30 and leaving by 5:30. In between picking kids up, cooking, etc., this works for me and my household and have no interest in working beyond this due to the upheaval it would cost my personal life. Some people can manage it fine. If need be, I'll work in the evenings - no issues - but the reality is that I rarely do.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Loser flags for me
1. Doesn’t have a job, can’t keep a job, doesn’t have a vision of what they want to do with their career. Salary doesn’t matter to me, it’s about purpose, passion, and work ethic.
2. Doesn’t know how to “adult” once they have been out of college 2-3 years. An adult goes to the dentist twice a year, keeps their car maintained and registered, gets haircuts regularly, buys their own clothes, can buy groceries and cook some basic meals, can manage a budget, etc.

I don’t think being close to your family of origin makes you a loser. If that is important to him and you don’t see yourself fitting into that dynamic, then you are not a good fit. I’m not close like that to my family, but I wouldn’t think of less of people that are close knit with their family.

+1000

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Loser flags for me
1. Doesn’t have a job, can’t keep a job, doesn’t have a vision of what they want to do with their career. Salary doesn’t matter to me, it’s about purpose, passion, and work ethic.
2. Doesn’t know how to “adult” once they have been out of college 2-3 years. An adult goes to the dentist twice a year, keeps their car maintained and registered, gets haircuts regularly, buys their own clothes, can buy groceries and cook some basic meals, can manage a budget, etc.

I don’t think being close to your family of origin makes you a loser. If that is important to him and you don’t see yourself fitting into that dynamic, then you are not a good fit. I’m not close like that to my family, but I wouldn’t think of less of people that are close knit with their family.

I would be curious to tease #1 out, especially the part of having a vision of where they want to go in life. I am a guy, make good money but have no aspirations to being in the rat race and elevating to executive level. I am happy to have a flexible job that provides me ample PTO during the year and gives me the flexibility to leave early to pick kids up, go to dr appts, etc. I work hard at work and have reached a good level at a company. Basically, my life outside of work defines me - not work.

Fine it is both and very Adult as well.

My workaholic husband thinks his paycheck (same as mine but every so often he gets a larger bonus than me or vice versus) means he can leave messes all over the house and not parent his kids. We have them in private school just so I have a better “partner” raising them. If DH clenched jobs and was able to be more involved and focused on his wife, family, or house we’d do our good publics in a flash- but too much to navigate just myself plus my job. And I would never SAH for a dH that doesn’t appreciate anything going on in the homefront. He was very sheltered from “adulting” at home by his aDHD nutty professor father and SAH mom who further enabled them all.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Loser flags for me
1. Doesn’t have a job, can’t keep a job, doesn’t have a vision of what they want to do with their career. Salary doesn’t matter to me, it’s about purpose, passion, and work ethic.
2. Doesn’t know how to “adult” once they have been out of college 2-3 years. An adult goes to the dentist twice a year, keeps their car maintained and registered, gets haircuts regularly, buys their own clothes, can buy groceries and cook some basic meals, can manage a budget, etc.

I don’t think being close to your family of origin makes you a loser. If that is important to him and you don’t see yourself fitting into that dynamic, then you are not a good fit. I’m not close like that to my family, but I wouldn’t think of less of people that are close knit with their family.

So, DCUM moms, ask yourself this question - are you raising a loser? Do your sons know how to do all that stuff? Do they even know they should know how to do all that stuff?

The amount of high-intensity helicopter parenting that I see every day makes me wonder about the future self-reliance of these kids. They don't know how to do anything themselves, because mommy has always been there for them making things happen.

[Anonymous]

For me, a loser guy would be:
- has trouble staying employed
- has no friends or only 1-2 friends and can't keep friendships
- isn't at all financially stable at an age when he should be (I'm 46 - wouldn't date anyone much below 40, and by 40 I feel like you should basically have your financial stuff together, special circumstances notwithstanding)
- has a bunch of kids by a bunch of different people and maybe isn't a very good father
- can't hold a conversation (though that might be more of a "boring" guy)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:For me, a loser guy would be:
- has trouble staying employed
- has no friends or only 1-2 friends and can't keep friendships
- isn't at all financially stable at an age when he should be (I'm 46 - wouldn't date anyone much below 40, and by 40 I feel like you should basically have your financial stuff together, special circumstances notwithstanding)
- has a bunch of kids by a bunch of different people and maybe isn't a very good father
- can't hold a conversation (though that might be more of a "boring" guy)

Loser guys are great conversationalists. That's why women date loser men.

[Anonymous]

How old are you, and how much do you make, OP?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP you sound immature. So does the tux douche-bag poster.

In any event, now that most of our circle is in their 40s, i think i can use hindsight to see what traits at 29 took friends down the loser versus not loser path.

The ONLY things i think the "non loser" men had in common 20 years ago is:

- Hardworking
- Kind

Seriously. That's it.

I look at our circle of successful marriages (happy partnerships, still love each other, limited resentment, no real financial worries (anywhere from middle class to super rich)) and i can think of guys who, twenty years ago:
- were student poor
- were minimum wage poor
- "only" made $50k
- didn't go to college
- played video games (they all did)
- slept in (they all did)
- didn't tend to appointments (common)
- didn't have a tux (horror!)
- slept in late (this is also really common. DH and i were always 10:30am on weekends in our 20s!)
- don't read (DH still doesn't read books!)
- don't eat well (ahh to be 20 again and eat like shit)
- didn't have married friends (most of our circle went to grad school, which really pushes off guy's marrying age to their 30s)
- didn't keep their apartment clean or lived in dirty group houses

None of these are red flags at 29. Age 29 is a time when a lot of people are still in their life-building years and making sacrifices for the future.

But if i were a guy and knew OP were keeping checklists like this, I would think she was a major loser.

PS on the mom thing, i don't think that makes him a loser. But it is a red flag to be aware of if you are considering marriage. That mom will always be hovering.

I completely agree.

I agree with everything you wrote except the part about video games. I don’t think it is an automatic disqualifier but a turnoff. My DH never played video games... maybe I am biased.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:IMO, a loser...

...is complacent about important aspects of his life like career, education, or finances
...when asked, doesn't have clear life goals
...doesn't know how to do everyday things for himself (like cooking, laundry)
...doesn't care about his health or appearance
...doesn't care about your satisfaction in bed

Worst of all, he blames others for his issues.

I agree with this. It’s hard to win at life when you’re operating in these things.