Stop it with 'gaslighting' and 'borderline'

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Exactly. Every so often I encounter a story about a crazy relative and I immediately recognize it. It's very recognizable. I don't think anyone here is claiming that they are capable of making a DSM diagnosis or offering therapy. It's just a very recognizable thing once you've been in the maw. People who are really pissed about it are probably projecting ...

I'm curious what it is that you recognize. Can you give specific examples with explanation why they are indicative of the BPD?

PP with the borderline mil here. Assuming your question is sincere, check out the book Stop Walking on Eggshells. It's essentially the classic on dealing with BPD in the family - http://www.amazon.com/Stop-Walking-Eggshells-Borderline-Personality/dp/1572246901

For my mil, one of the big recognizable things is the idea of "splitting". In her world, people are either all good or all bad. My dh was the "good" one, his brother the "bad" one. I was the "good" dil, my sil was the "bad" one. Until I wasn't, of course. Her reactions to everything are extreme. She's never just miffed about something, she's furious about it. No one makes an innocent mistake in her world - they are out to get her and take her down and are horrible, damaged people who will never change. And they need help of course, but she is just fine and needs no help, thankyouverymuch.

Her house is a disordered mess. I'm pretty sure her finances are a wreck too. She divorced FIL late in life, retaining properties that they owned in exchange for any claim to any money they had (which wasn't much - FIL was a high earner who spent everything, he's his own story). She proceeded to give the properties away to her kids, against legal and tax advice (this was before dh and I married). Now she's left her last job and seems to need money. Thankfully we have some and have give been able to give her some. But these boundaries are fuzzy - she gives her property to her kids, but they have no idea what sort of retirement savings she has or what her accounts are. She seems convinced she'll just die before the money runs out. It's so different from my upbringing. All I can do at this point is shake my head.

Yes, Walking on Eggshells was what helped me recognized borderline in my relative. Especially splitting and extreme reactions, and a pattern of intense relationships that blow up due to those two characteristics.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I will say that I get a little surprised when I see BPD bandied about on this board because the examples used, like the narcissistic MILs, seem so far removed from my BPD-diagnosed sibling.

Perhaps her case is extreme, but my BPD sister is so far from being able to have a relationship long enough to marry and raise children, or hold down any kind of job, or even live on her own, that the annoying MILs I read about seem to exist on another planet. Again, my understanding of the disease is limited to my own experience and there must be a spectrum of the disorder, but overuse of the term can belittle those who truly have a crippling problem.

I can understand where you're coming from. I think some of the functioning BPDs probably have less intense symptoms (maybe less suicidality and substance abuse) and probably often have relatives/spouses who work really hard to compensate for them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Exactly. Every so often I encounter a story about a crazy relative and I immediately recognize it. It's very recognizable. I don't think anyone here is claiming that they are capable of making a DSM diagnosis or offering therapy. It's just a very recognizable thing once you've been in the maw. People who are really pissed about it are probably projecting ...

I'm curious what it is that you recognize. Can you give specific examples with explanation why they are indicative of the BPD?

PP with the borderline mil here. Assuming your question is sincere, check out the book Stop Walking on Eggshells. It's essentially the classic on dealing with BPD in the family - http://www.amazon.com/Stop-Walking-Eggshells-Borderline-Personality/dp/1572246901

For my mil, one of the big recognizable things is the idea of "splitting". In her world, people are either all good or all bad. My dh was the "good" one, his brother the "bad" one. I was the "good" dil, my sil was the "bad" one. Until I wasn't, of course. Her reactions to everything are extreme. She's never just miffed about something, she's furious about it. No one makes an innocent mistake in her world - they are out to get her and take her down and are horrible, damaged people who will never change. And they need help of course, but she is just fine and needs no help, thankyouverymuch.

Her house is a disordered mess. I'm pretty sure her finances are a wreck too. She divorced FIL late in life, retaining properties that they owned in exchange for any claim to any money they had (which wasn't much - FIL was a high earner who spent everything, he's his own story). She proceeded to give the properties away to her kids, against legal and tax advice (this was before dh and I married). Now she's left her last job and seems to need money. Thankfully we have some and have give been able to give her some. But these boundaries are fuzzy - she gives her property to her kids, but they have no idea what sort of retirement savings she has or what her accounts are. She seems convinced she'll just die before the money runs out. It's so different from my upbringing. All I can do at this point is shake my head.

She does not really meet the criteria. Borderline people have a VERY hard time maintaining relationships. So your MIL built up a fortune while married to your FIL for many years. Then she had children who are adults who all stay in touch and maintain her properties. Then she has a caring DD who is helping her now. She stayed in a job until the kids were grown and past grown... She sounds much more keyed in and responsible than a typical borderline. Really, she sounds more like a raging alcoholic to me ...

Well, she doesn't drink, so she's not an alcoholic. She didn't "build up a fortune" - she has a small house that she and FIL owned when they were first married that she currently lives in, an empty lot that she inherited from her mother many years ago, and had a small condo that she lived in after the divorce. Sold the condo and gave that money away. Signed over the house and the lot, without consideration to the tax consequences. Her adult kids recieve her nasty email messages periodically. They're used to her - they suffer silently through her rages. There is no dd. I'm her DIL who is fine with giving her money, because my sane, old-school, blue-collar, work hard, save hard parents left me with money when they died. Anyone else would have cut her off for her pissy behaviour and bullshit she spewed over my father's funeral. She didn't "stay in a job" until the kids were grown. She's moved around from job to job because after a couple of years she ends up in a catfight with somebody and has to move on. She lives back in her hometown, and no longer sees her cousins or any of the people she grew up with because she finally lost her ability to hold it together in front of them and raged herself out of those friendships.

But go ahead, you tell me what her problems are.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Exactly. Every so often I encounter a story about a crazy relative and I immediately recognize it. It's very recognizable. I don't think anyone here is claiming that they are capable of making a DSM diagnosis or offering therapy. It's just a very recognizable thing once you've been in the maw. People who are really pissed about it are probably projecting ...

I'm curious what it is that you recognize. Can you give specific examples with explanation why they are indicative of the BPD?

PP with the borderline mil here. Assuming your question is sincere, check out the book Stop Walking on Eggshells. It's essentially the classic on dealing with BPD in the family - http://www.amazon.com/Stop-Walking-Eggshells-Borderline-Personality/dp/1572246901

For my mil, one of the big recognizable things is the idea of "splitting". In her world, people are either all good or all bad. My dh was the "good" one, his brother the "bad" one. I was the "good" dil, my sil was the "bad" one. Until I wasn't, of course. Her reactions to everything are extreme. She's never just miffed about something, she's furious about it. No one makes an innocent mistake in her world - they are out to get her and take her down and are horrible, damaged people who will never change. And they need help of course, but she is just fine and needs no help, thankyouverymuch.

Her house is a disordered mess. I'm pretty sure her finances are a wreck too. She divorced FIL late in life, retaining properties that they owned in exchange for any claim to any money they had (which wasn't much - FIL was a high earner who spent everything, he's his own story). She proceeded to give the properties away to her kids, against legal and tax advice (this was before dh and I married). Now she's left her last job and seems to need money. Thankfully we have some and have give been able to give her some. But these boundaries are fuzzy - she gives her property to her kids, but they have no idea what sort of retirement savings she has or what her accounts are. She seems convinced she'll just die before the money runs out. It's so different from my upbringing. All I can do at this point is shake my head.

She does not really meet the criteria. Borderline people have a VERY hard time maintaining relationships. So your MIL built up a fortune while married to your FIL for many years. Then she had children who are adults who all stay in touch and maintain her properties. Then she has a caring DD who is helping her now. She stayed in a job until the kids were grown and past grown... She sounds much more keyed in and responsible than a typical borderline. Really, she sounds more like a raging alcoholic to me ...

Well, she doesn't drink, so she's not an alcoholic. She didn't "build up a fortune" - she has a small house that she and FIL owned when they were first married that she currently lives in, an empty lot that she inherited from her mother many years ago, and had a small condo that she lived in after the divorce. Sold the condo and gave that money away. Signed over the house and the lot, without consideration to the tax consequences. Her adult kids recieve her nasty email messages periodically. They're used to her - they suffer silently through her rages. There is no dd. I'm her DIL who is fine with giving her money, because my sane, old-school, blue-collar, work hard, save hard parents left me with money when they died. Anyone else would have cut her off for her pissy behaviour and bullshit she spewed over my father's funeral. She didn't "stay in a job" until the kids were grown. She's moved around from job to job because after a couple of years she ends up in a catfight with somebody and has to move on. She lives back in her hometown, and no longer sees her cousins or any of the people she grew up with because she finally lost her ability to hold it together in front of them and raged herself out of those friendships.

But go ahead, you tell me what her problems are.

Classic BPD

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I will say that I get a little surprised when I see BPD bandied about on this board because the examples used, like the narcissistic MILs, seem so far removed from my BPD-diagnosed sibling.

Perhaps her case is extreme, but my BPD sister is so far from being able to have a relationship long enough to marry and raise children, or hold down any kind of job, or even live on her own, that the annoying MILs I read about seem to exist on another planet. Again, my understanding of the disease is limited to my own experience and there must be a spectrum of the disorder, but overuse of the term can belittle those who truly have a crippling problem.

My perspective is somewhere in between.

My diagnosed BPD brother is completely incapable of relationships. He's got a comorbid mood disorder and the combination of the two things and his childhood trauma result in his being a complete shut in with no life or prospects.

In my years supporting him in therapy -- a condition of his probation on drug charges-- I've been told by his doctor (he signed a release so I could fill in the blanks of childhood memories he's suppressed) that our mother is NPD and demonstrates psychopathy. she is very high functioning. She runs a business. She can seem charming before she alienates people. And she is from a generation and traditional background where marriages take place very early and divorce is frowned upon. So she's managed to remain married for decades.

A person with a personality disorder can be high functioning. Generally their kids won't be-- I got lucky and got out of there.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Exactly. Every so often I encounter a story about a crazy relative and I immediately recognize it. It's very recognizable. I don't think anyone here is claiming that they are capable of making a DSM diagnosis or offering therapy. It's just a very recognizable thing once you've been in the maw. People who are really pissed about it are probably projecting ...

I'm curious what it is that you recognize. Can you give specific examples with explanation why they are indicative of the BPD?

PP with the borderline mil here. Assuming your question is sincere, check out the book Stop Walking on Eggshells. It's essentially the classic on dealing with BPD in the family - http://www.amazon.com/Stop-Walking-Eggshells-Borderline-Personality/dp/1572246901

For my mil, one of the big recognizable things is the idea of "splitting". In her world, people are either all good or all bad. My dh was the "good" one, his brother the "bad" one. I was the "good" dil, my sil was the "bad" one. Until I wasn't, of course. Her reactions to everything are extreme. She's never just miffed about something, she's furious about it. No one makes an innocent mistake in her world - they are out to get her and take her down and are horrible, damaged people who will never change. And they need help of course, but she is just fine and needs no help, thankyouverymuch.

Her house is a disordered mess. I'm pretty sure her finances are a wreck too. She divorced FIL late in life, retaining properties that they owned in exchange for any claim to any money they had (which wasn't much - FIL was a high earner who spent everything, he's his own story). She proceeded to give the properties away to her kids, against legal and tax advice (this was before dh and I married). Now she's left her last job and seems to need money. Thankfully we have some and have give been able to give her some. But these boundaries are fuzzy - she gives her property to her kids, but they have no idea what sort of retirement savings she has or what her accounts are. She seems convinced she'll just die before the money runs out. It's so different from my upbringing. All I can do at this point is shake my head.

She does not really meet the criteria. Borderline people have a VERY hard time maintaining relationships. So your MIL built up a fortune while married to your FIL for many years. Then she had children who are adults who all stay in touch and maintain her properties. Then she has a caring DD who is helping her now. She stayed in a job until the kids were grown and past grown... She sounds much more keyed in and responsible than a typical borderline. Really, she sounds more like a raging alcoholic to me ...

Well, she doesn't drink, so she's not an alcoholic. She didn't "build up a fortune" - she has a small house that she and FIL owned when they were first married that she currently lives in, an empty lot that she inherited from her mother many years ago, and had a small condo that she lived in after the divorce. Sold the condo and gave that money away. Signed over the house and the lot, without consideration to the tax consequences. Her adult kids recieve her nasty email messages periodically. They're used to her - they suffer silently through her rages. There is no dd. I'm her DIL who is fine with giving her money, because my sane, old-school, blue-collar, work hard, save hard parents left me with money when they died. Anyone else would have cut her off for her pissy behaviour and bullshit she spewed over my father's funeral. She didn't "stay in a job" until the kids were grown. She's moved around from job to job because after a couple of years she ends up in a catfight with somebody and has to move on. She lives back in her hometown, and no longer sees her cousins or any of the people she grew up with because she finally lost her ability to hold it together in front of them and raged herself out of those friendships.

But go ahead, you tell me what her problems are.

Ok You sound just like her -- so she chose well.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Well, she doesn't drink, so she's not an alcoholic. She didn't "build up a fortune" - she has a small house that she and FIL owned when they were first married that she currently lives in, an empty lot that she inherited from her mother many years ago, and had a small condo that she lived in after the divorce. Sold the condo and gave that money away. Signed over the house and the lot, without consideration to the tax consequences. Her adult kids recieve her nasty email messages periodically. They're used to her - they suffer silently through her rages. There is no dd. I'm her DIL who is fine with giving her money, because my sane, old-school, blue-collar, work hard, save hard parents left me with money when they died. Anyone else would have cut her off for her pissy behaviour and bullshit she spewed over my father's funeral. She didn't "stay in a job" until the kids were grown. She's moved around from job to job because after a couple of years she ends up in a catfight with somebody and has to move on. She lives back in her hometown, and no longer sees her cousins or any of the people she grew up with because she finally lost her ability to hold it together in front of them and raged herself out of those friendships.

But go ahead, you tell me what her problems are.

Classic BPD

Thanks, pp. You made me lol . My father was a special person, and it really angered me that she insisted on coming and of course turned it into an episode that colors my memory of the day. Its been a few years so I'm mostly able to put it out of my head.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Exactly. Every so often I encounter a story about a crazy relative and I immediately recognize it. It's very recognizable. I don't think anyone here is claiming that they are capable of making a DSM diagnosis or offering therapy. It's just a very recognizable thing once you've been in the maw. People who are really pissed about it are probably projecting ...

I'm curious what it is that you recognize. Can you give specific examples with explanation why they are indicative of the BPD?

PP with the borderline mil here. Assuming your question is sincere, check out the book Stop Walking on Eggshells. It's essentially the classic on dealing with BPD in the family - http://www.amazon.com/Stop-Walking-Eggshells-Borderline-Personality/dp/1572246901

For my mil, one of the big recognizable things is the idea of "splitting". In her world, people are either all good or all bad. My dh was the "good" one, his brother the "bad" one. I was the "good" dil, my sil was the "bad" one. Until I wasn't, of course. Her reactions to everything are extreme. She's never just miffed about something, she's furious about it. No one makes an innocent mistake in her world - they are out to get her and take her down and are horrible, damaged people who will never change. And they need help of course, but she is just fine and needs no help, thankyouverymuch.

Her house is a disordered mess. I'm pretty sure her finances are a wreck too. She divorced FIL late in life, retaining properties that they owned in exchange for any claim to any money they had (which wasn't much - FIL was a high earner who spent everything, he's his own story). She proceeded to give the properties away to her kids, against legal and tax advice (this was before dh and I married). Now she's left her last job and seems to need money. Thankfully we have some and have give been able to give her some. But these boundaries are fuzzy - she gives her property to her kids, but they have no idea what sort of retirement savings she has or what her accounts are. She seems convinced she'll just die before the money runs out. It's so different from my upbringing. All I can do at this point is shake my head.

She does not really meet the criteria. Borderline people have a VERY hard time maintaining relationships. So your MIL built up a fortune while married to your FIL for many years. Then she had children who are adults who all stay in touch and maintain her properties. Then she has a caring DD who is helping her now. She stayed in a job until the kids were grown and past grown... She sounds much more keyed in and responsible than a typical borderline. Really, she sounds more like a raging alcoholic to me ...

Well, she doesn't drink, so she's not an alcoholic. She didn't "build up a fortune" - she has a small house that she and FIL owned when they were first married that she currently lives in, an empty lot that she inherited from her mother many years ago, and had a small condo that she lived in after the divorce. Sold the condo and gave that money away. Signed over the house and the lot, without consideration to the tax consequences. Her adult kids recieve her nasty email messages periodically. They're used to her - they suffer silently through her rages. There is no dd. I'm her DIL who is fine with giving her money, because my sane, old-school, blue-collar, work hard, save hard parents left me with money when they died. Anyone else would have cut her off for her pissy behaviour and bullshit she spewed over my father's funeral. She didn't "stay in a job" until the kids were grown. She's moved around from job to job because after a couple of years she ends up in a catfight with somebody and has to move on. She lives back in her hometown, and no longer sees her cousins or any of the people she grew up with because she finally lost her ability to hold it together in front of them and raged herself out of those friendships.

But go ahead, you tell me what her problems are.

Ok You sound just like her -- so she chose well.

Bwahahahahaha. No.

[Anonymous]

So would you like a copy of our relative's dx signed by a doctor OP? How would you like us to verify these dx's for you before we post? Because it's important for me to make sure you're happy with my posts asking for help dealing with my, actually diagnosed, IL's.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So would you like a copy of our relative's dx signed by a doctor OP? How would you like us to verify these dx's for you before we post? Because it's important for me to make sure you're happy with my posts asking for help dealing with my, actually diagnosed, IL's.

It can't just be that your tone is bitchy, PP. you must be Borderlinnnnnnnneeee!!!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So would you like a copy of our relative's dx signed by a doctor OP? How would you like us to verify these dx's for you before we post? Because it's important for me to make sure you're happy with my posts asking for help dealing with my, actually diagnosed, IL's.

How coincidental that more than one of your ILs gas this difficult to diagnose diagnosis.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So would you like a copy of our relative's dx signed by a doctor OP? How would you like us to verify these dx's for you before we post? Because it's important for me to make sure you're happy with my posts asking for help dealing with my, actually diagnosed, IL's.

How coincidental that more than one of your ILs gas this difficult to diagnose diagnosis.

How is that coincidental? Birds of a feather and all that. Family therapy. There's your Dx.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So would you like a copy of our relative's dx signed by a doctor OP? How would you like us to verify these dx's for you before we post? Because it's important for me to make sure you're happy with my posts asking for help dealing with my, actually diagnosed, IL's.

It can't just be that your tone is bitchy, PP. you must be Borderlinnnnnnnneeee!!!

Haha no I actually am a huge bitch.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Exactly. Every so often I encounter a story about a crazy relative and I immediately recognize it. It's very recognizable. I don't think anyone here is claiming that they are capable of making a DSM diagnosis or offering therapy. It's just a very recognizable thing once you've been in the maw. People who are really pissed about it are probably projecting ...

I'm curious what it is that you recognize. Can you give specific examples with explanation why they are indicative of the BPD?

PP with the borderline mil here. Assuming your question is sincere, check out the book Stop Walking on Eggshells. It's essentially the classic on dealing with BPD in the family - http://www.amazon.com/Stop-Walking-Eggshells-Borderline-Personality/dp/1572246901

For my mil, one of the big recognizable things is the idea of "splitting". In her world, people are either all good or all bad. My dh was the "good" one, his brother the "bad" one. I was the "good" dil, my sil was the "bad" one. Until I wasn't, of course. Her reactions to everything are extreme. She's never just miffed about something, she's furious about it. No one makes an innocent mistake in her world - they are out to get her and take her down and are horrible, damaged people who will never change. And they need help of course, but she is just fine and needs no help, thankyouverymuch.

Her house is a disordered mess. I'm pretty sure her finances are a wreck too. She divorced FIL late in life, retaining properties that they owned in exchange for any claim to any money they had (which wasn't much - FIL was a high earner who spent everything, he's his own story). She proceeded to give the properties away to her kids, against legal and tax advice (this was before dh and I married). Now she's left her last job and seems to need money. Thankfully we have some and have give been able to give her some. But these boundaries are fuzzy - she gives her property to her kids, but they have no idea what sort of retirement savings she has or what her accounts are. She seems convinced she'll just die before the money runs out. It's so different from my upbringing. All I can do at this point is shake my head.

She does not really meet the criteria. Borderline people have a VERY hard time maintaining relationships. So your MIL built up a fortune while married to your FIL for many years. Then she had children who are adults who all stay in touch and maintain her properties. Then she has a caring DD who is helping her now. She stayed in a job until the kids were grown and past grown... She sounds much more keyed in and responsible than a typical borderline. Really, she sounds more like a raging alcoholic to me ...

Well, she doesn't drink, so she's not an alcoholic. She didn't "build up a fortune" - she has a small house that she and FIL owned when they were first married that she currently lives in, an empty lot that she inherited from her mother many years ago, and had a small condo that she lived in after the divorce. Sold the condo and gave that money away. Signed over the house and the lot, without consideration to the tax consequences. Her adult kids recieve her nasty email messages periodically. They're used to her - they suffer silently through her rages. There is no dd. I'm her DIL who is fine with giving her money, because my sane, old-school, blue-collar, work hard, save hard parents left me with money when they died. Anyone else would have cut her off for her pissy behaviour and bullshit she spewed over my father's funeral. She didn't "stay in a job" until the kids were grown. She's moved around from job to job because after a couple of years she ends up in a catfight with somebody and has to move on. She lives back in her hometown, and no longer sees her cousins or any of the people she grew up with because she finally lost her ability to hold it together in front of them and raged herself out of those friendships.

But go ahead, you tell me what her problems are.

Not to you, I presume. I think we're getting to the bottom of this

What does it even mean, "bullshit she spewed over my father's funeral"? You're clearly pissed about something, and your MIL is clearly difficult and unable to manage herself exactly the way your parents did. This doesn't necessarily mean she's certifiable. Plenty of people's lives are in disarray for one reason or another.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So would you like a copy of our relative's dx signed by a doctor OP? How would you like us to verify these dx's for you before we post? Because it's important for me to make sure you're happy with my posts asking for help dealing with my, actually diagnosed, IL's.

Ugh. If there is an official diagnosis, say so. If you're simply angry with your MIL for whatever reason, don't tell people she's borderline. See how easy this is?