An immigrants musings on the SAHM vs working mom debate

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here.

I am still confused about how the ability to work outside the home and earn an income started being viewed as a chore and a burden rather than a desirable exercise of ones ability be able to use your mind and intelligence and be financially independent?

All I knew was women wanting to be more than just housewives and poop cleaners for their babies.

In the first world, its reversed. Women seem to want to go back into their kitchens.

You are being intentionally provocative.

+1

Her remarks at the end of her OP were similarly provocative. Trying to sound confused and sincere while ending with digs and looking down her nose. Typical.

I was not trying to be provocative. I am trying to put it in simple terms.

I don't understand the desire to stay home. My mother always told me to always always be financially independent and never to be dependent on a man or a burden on your parents. I'm confused as to why western women desire to be provided for. There's no dignity in that. You're dependent on someone else for your livelihood.

Interesting that it doesn't similarly bother you that your children are completely dependent on someone other than their parents for their care.

We get it. You "don't understand the desire to stay home." You don't have to understand. No one cares what your opinion is. But thanks for sharing!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here.

I am still confused about how the ability to work outside the home and earn an income started being viewed as a chore and a burden rather than a desirable exercise of ones ability be able to use your mind and intelligence and be financially independent?

All I knew was women wanting to be more than just housewives and poop cleaners for their babies.

In the first world, its reversed. Women seem to want to go back into their kitchens.

You are being intentionally provocative.

+1

Her remarks at the end of her OP were similarly provocative. Trying to sound confused and sincere while ending with digs and looking down her nose. Typical.

I was not trying to be provocative. I am trying to put it in simple terms.

I don't understand the desire to stay home. My mother always told me to always always be financially independent and never to be dependent on a man or a burden on your parents. I'm confused as to why western women desire to be provided for. There's no dignity in that. You're dependent on someone else for your livelihood.

And there it is, the truth finally comes out.

Your "musings on the sahm/wahm debate"= You starting a thread about the lowliness of being a sahm, from your third world perspective of course because that makes it appear altruistic.

You don't understand how people are different from you. You can't get out of you're own experiences to try to understand that your experience is not the only one. (I wonder how that goes at work with others that are different from you).

Now go back to not understanding how others are different from you without posting about it here.

[Anonymous]

My take on this is that the OP is reminding women, especially younger women who may lack the context, of how important the right to work is, and not to take it for granted. I think stay at home mothers are very important, and I'm grateful I had one. At the same time, I am so thankful that I have the opportunity to work, and I'd never give it up. I also think women just take for granted what it means to have women in the workforce. It means women advocating for women's interests and also social welfare (typically a greater concern for women than men), such as right to birth control, equal educational opportunities, environmental protection, fighting inequities in the developing world, safeguarding children's rights. These are things that women have fought for and are important, and it's because they were part of the work force. Ideally most women would have the chance to stay at home for a while, and then continue working. Women's participation in the labor force is associated with societal advances and equality in so many ways and is pretty much the key to making a country successful and strong.

Thanks OP for your post.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This doesn't seem like musings. It's you starting another lame WOHM vs SAHM debate. Good for you that you love working out of the home, that you don't envy SAHMs and that you think working is the only way to contribute to society. Clap, clap.

My parents were immigrants and they love America as do I. It's because we have the CHOICE. No one here is forced to stay veiled and at home. If we can afford to stay at home we have that choice.

You don't have to put down a SAHM by thinking she isn't a contributing member to society. Your missing the point of the freedoms we have. Rather than thinking you are doing some great service to the world by earning a paycheck you're missing that you have that choice to do so or to not do so.

Working out of the home is not the privilege. The CHOICE is the privilege.

THANK YOU. A million times THANK YOU.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Cool story, bro!

Of course, if you married a doctor, lawyer, or some other kind of busy professional who can't/won't help with the house and kids, then you just might choose to quit the rat race and stay home with the kids...and then you'd likely hire a nanny and housekeeper...just like lots of other American mommies in DCUMLandia. There's no shame in it.

Personally, I'd rather cut off my arm than be a SAHM completely dependent on my husband. But if a lady wants to be a SAHM, that's no skin off my nose.

And I'd rather have my eyes poked out than be a WOHM trying to carve out an hour a day for her kids. But if a lady wants to be a WOHM, that's no skin off my nose.

[Anonymous]

Why do so many Muslim majority countries treat women so poorly? Is it Islam or culture? I admit I know nothing of Islam...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here.

I am still confused about how the ability to work outside the home and earn an income started being viewed as a chore and a burden rather than a desirable exercise of ones ability be able to use your mind and intelligence and be financially independent?

All I knew was women wanting to be more than just housewives and poop cleaners for their babies.

In the first world, its reversed. Women seem to want to go back into their kitchens.

You are being intentionally provocative.

+1

Her remarks at the end of her OP were similarly provocative. Trying to sound confused and sincere while ending with digs and looking down her nose. Typical.

I was not trying to be provocative. I am trying to put it in simple terms.

I don't understand the desire to stay home. My mother always told me to always always be financially independent and never to be dependent on a man or a burden on your parents. I'm confused as to why western women desire to be provided for. There's no dignity in that. You're dependent on someone else for your livelihood.

You don't need to put anything into simple terms. Unless you believe SAHMs are dimwits, incapable of thinking in complex terms.

Comparing your upbringing to the US is faulty. American women who SAH can join the workforce at any point in time and earn money. We are not barred entry. And, unless you can work and support your family WITHOUT the income of your husband, working mothers are also financially dependent on their spouses for their livelihood. Stop kidding yourself.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am a Pakistani immigrant in the United States and I love this country and the liberties I am offered here as a young woman. When I peruse this website, I am often shocked at the bitterness that seems to engulf most working women/moms on DCUM. Where I come from, women are not allowed to work. The woman's place is considered to be the kitchen and her primary duty in life is to bear children and care for them. This attitude is so prevalent that many across the country deem it unnecessary to send their girls to school.

OP,

Pakistan has lots of women and children working in sweatshops.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here.

I am still confused about how the ability to work outside the home and earn an income started being viewed as a chore and a burden rather than a desirable exercise of ones ability be able to use your mind and intelligence and be financially independent?

All I knew was women wanting to be more than just housewives and poop cleaners for their babies.

In the first world, its reversed. Women seem to want to go back into their kitchens.

It becomes a chore and a burden when it is no longer a choice or option. Duh.

That's why the privilege is having a choice- The privilege is not working and it's not staying at home. It's the choice to do either.

And also the ability to switch back and forth between the options as life and desires change. The WOHM/SAHM debate is so often framed as if every SAHM will never work again and no WOHM will ever take time off while the reality is much more fluid. I've done both, most of my SAHM friends from the baby/preschool years are now working at least part time and most full time. And, now I work FT and my DH is the one with a flexible WAH job.

I was a SAHM for several years and kept a hand in my career via freelance work. Not because we couldn't afford childcare - my salary was more than enough to cover that with some left over. Not because DH traveled a lot - he had reasonable hours and rarely traveled. I stayed home because I WANTED to be the person caring for my babies and DH was happy to have me do that too. And I worked in a field with plenty of freelancing opportunities and had seen several other women on/off ramp in our field so I felt confident I could get back in when I wanted to (which I did). And I had confidence in the strength of my marriage and the fact that we always operated as financial equals regardless of who made how much money at an particular time. All of these are great privileges and I wish all families were in the same position.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Many DCUM women will have you believe they work because they love it.

For the most part, they lie. They work because it's necessary for their family. Many would quit in a heartbeat if their financial way of life would not be affected.

This is flat out wrong, but go make daddy a martini.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here.

I am still confused about how the ability to work outside the home and earn an income started being viewed as a chore and a burden rather than a desirable exercise of ones ability be able to use your mind and intelligence and be financially independent?

All I knew was women wanting to be more than just housewives and poop cleaners for their babies.

In the first world, its reversed. Women seem to want to go back into their kitchens.

You are being intentionally provocative.

+1

Her remarks at the end of her OP were similarly provocative. Trying to sound confused and sincere while ending with digs and looking down her nose. Typical.

I was not trying to be provocative. I am trying to put it in simple terms.

I don't understand the desire to stay home. My mother always told me to always always be financially independent and never to be dependent on a man or a burden on your parents. I'm confused as to why western women desire to be provided for. There's no dignity in that. You're dependent on someone else for your livelihood.

You don't need to put anything into simple terms. Unless you believe SAHMs are dimwits, incapable of thinking in complex terms.

Comparing your upbringing to the US is faulty. American women who SAH can join the workforce at any point in time and earn money. We are not barred entry. And, unless you can work and support your family WITHOUT the income of your husband, working mothers are also financially dependent on their spouses for their livelihood. Stop kidding yourself.

I could easily work and support myself and kids on my salary as a GS-15 WAH Fed with benefits and flexibility.

He makes a lot more than me, but I'd survive with my $175k/salary.

It is hard for somebody that stopped working at 27-32 years old to him back in the workforce at 45+. Really hard. Don't fool yourself--especially with this economy. This is why it's wise to downscale if you have the luxury--2-3 days per week or telework, but I'd be careful about just quitting with 60-years of life left.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here.

I am still confused about how the ability to work outside the home and earn an income started being viewed as a chore and a burden rather than a desirable exercise of ones ability be able to use your mind and intelligence and be financially independent?

All I knew was women wanting to be more than just housewives and poop cleaners for their babies.

In the first world, its reversed. Women seem to want to go back into their kitchens.

[phone]

Don't even bother trying to reason with American SAHM. They use some flawed logic to justify their decision to be a SAH. To live in a highly advanced nation and chose to be less productive is just stupidity. I still think the reason for this decision is laziness. No sugar coating this. It's pure laziness. When it's divorce time they seemed surprised by the outcome when the husband takes everything.

Btw: I'm an American born and raised and fortunate to have travelled the world and witness the economical challenges women face in various parts of the world. I'm fortunate to be able to work and provide for myself and family.

Children are children for a very short time. SAHMs can always begin a career. Hell, many working adults change their careers mid-way through life.

If handing off my 6 week old to a daycare/nanny equals me being less productive at some office job, consider me less productive.

+1 And, how is me caring for my baby being less productive than a nanny caring for that baby? Life is about more than "productivity". I'll get back to billing my hours in a few years.

[Anonymous]

Many first generation immigrants believe that the USA is the the land of milk and honey. But the OP's view is as narrow as the views she grew up with, and that in itself is disappointing.

I clicked on this thread in the hope of reading something new, inspiring, thought-provoking.

But its just the usual shit.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here.

I am still confused about how the ability to work outside the home and earn an income started being viewed as a chore and a burden rather than a desirable exercise of ones ability be able to use your mind and intelligence and be financially independent?

All I knew was women wanting to be more than just housewives and poop cleaners for their babies.

In the first world, its reversed. Women seem to want to go back into their kitchens.

You are being intentionally provocative.

+1

Her remarks at the end of her OP were similarly provocative. Trying to sound confused and sincere while ending with digs and looking down her nose. Typical.

I was not trying to be provocative. I am trying to put it in simple terms.

I don't understand the desire to stay home. My mother always told me to always always be financially independent and never to be dependent on a man or a burden on your parents. I'm confused as to why western women desire to be provided for. There's no dignity in that. You're dependent on someone else for your livelihood.

You don't need to put anything into simple terms. Unless you believe SAHMs are dimwits, incapable of thinking in complex terms.

Comparing your upbringing to the US is faulty. American women who SAH can join the workforce at any point in time and earn money. We are not barred entry. And, unless you can work and support your family WITHOUT the income of your husband, working mothers are also financially dependent on their spouses for their livelihood. Stop kidding yourself.

I could easily work and support myself and kids on my salary as a GS-15 WAH Fed with benefits and flexibility.

He makes a lot more than me, but I'd survive with my $175k/salary.

It is hard for somebody that stopped working at 27-32 years old to him back in the workforce at 45+. Really hard. Don't fool yourself--especially with this economy. This is why it's wise to downscale if you have the luxury--2-3 days per week or telework, but I'd be careful about just quitting with 60-years of life left.

Yes you can support them, but at the same lifestyle level? No.

How do you know it's hard for SAHMs to reenter the workforce? Will they start at the top of the ladder? Definitely not. But there are admin positions where maturity is a plus.

The idea that SAHMs are forever doomed to being unemployable is silly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Many first generation immigrants believe that the USA is the the land of milk and honey. But the OP's view is as narrow as the views she grew up with, and that in itself is disappointing.

I clicked on this thread in the hope of reading something new, inspiring, thought-provoking.

But its just the usual shit.

Amen to that.