An immigrants musings on the SAHM vs working mom debate

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This doesn't seem like musings. It's you starting another lame WOHM vs SAHM debate. Good for you that you love working out of the home, that you don't envy SAHMs and that you think working is the only way to contribute to society. Clap, clap.

My parents were immigrants and they love America as do I. It's because we have the CHOICE. No one here is forced to stay veiled and at home. If we can afford to stay at home we have that choice.

You don't have to put down a SAHM by thinking she isn't a contributing member to society. Your missing the point of the freedoms we have. Rather than thinking you are doing some great service to the world by earning a paycheck you're missing that you have that choice to do so or to not do so.

Working out of the home is not the privilege. The CHOICE is the privilege.

Yup, right here is the entire "argument," such as it is. No other words necessary.

OP here. I disagree. Being able to provide for yourself, open a bank account in your name, being able to rent an apartment without needing a father or a husband to co-sign it for you. THAT is a privilege. Being able to go to a safe, clean office where you are respected and treated as an equal and allowed to voice your opinion and develop as a professional. That is a privilege.

In America, a woman does not HAVE to work. If she doesn't want a very UMC life, she can live comfortably on her husband's middle class salary sans the private school and the lululemon yoga pants. That she can do so if she WANTS to, that is a privilege.

Women historically were literally not allowed to work outside of the home. Now that we can, it is a privilege. To think otherwise is to be ungrateful.

It's not mutually exclusive, though, that's where you're misguided. First of all, "In America, a woman does not HAVE to work" is beyond untrue for very, very many families. Of course being able to work out of the home would be a privilege from your perspective. For others it's a matter of necessity and survival. But what you're missing is that it's also a privilege to not have to work out of the home. The feminists of the 60s and 70s fought very hard to ensure that women would be in a position to decide for herself and her family what makes sense to them and what works for them. THAT's the privilege.

Precisely. Of course, here in the bizarre bubble of DCUM, we're told that to be a true feminist, one must work outside the home. Which is ludicrous. I'm grateful for the choice to do what I want and what works best for my family.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have a trust fund and a great pre nup protecting my pre marital assets. I made the choice to have three children and stay at home, I won't return to full time work.

Most of my friends have chosen to SAH, and are happy with their choice. it's having the choice that made them feel grateful.

+1

Me too. Amen. OP, your views are very narrow, considering your point of reference.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here.

I am still confused about how the ability to work outside the home and earn an income started being viewed as a chore and a burden rather than a desirable exercise of ones ability be able to use your mind and intelligence and be financially independent?

All I knew was women wanting to be more than just housewives and poop cleaners for their babies.

In the first world, its reversed. Women seem to want to go back into their kitchens.

You are being intentionally provocative.

+1

Her remarks at the end of her OP were similarly provocative. Trying to sound confused and sincere while ending with digs and looking down her nose. Typical.

I was not trying to be provocative. I am trying to put it in simple terms.

I don't understand the desire to stay home. My mother always told me to always always be financially independent and never to be dependent on a man or a burden on your parents. I'm confused as to why western women desire to be provided for. There's no dignity in that. You're dependent on someone else for your livelihood.

I grew up in Fairfax County. I'm American. I'm Caucasian. My parents have been happily married for 50-years. I'm the second poster in this thread. My parents told me and my siblings the exact same thing. It's not exclusive to immigrants. My parents value work and education AND family. They had flex schedules and ran a very egalitarian household. My dad coached my sports teams, etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here.

I am still confused about how the ability to work outside the home and earn an income started being viewed as a chore and a burden rather than a desirable exercise of ones ability be able to use your mind and intelligence and be financially independent?

All I knew was women wanting to be more than just housewives and poop cleaners for their babies.

In the first world, its reversed. Women seem to want to go back into their kitchens.

[phone]

Don't even bother trying to reason with American SAHM. They use some flawed logic to justify their decision to be a SAH. To live in a highly advanced nation and chose to be less productive is just stupidity. I still think the reason for this decision is laziness. No sugar coating this. It's pure laziness. When it's divorce time they seemed surprised by the outcome when the husband takes everything.

Btw: I'm an American born and raised and fortunate to have travelled the world and witness the economical challenges women face in various parts of the world. I'm fortunate to be able to work and provide for myself and family.

No contempt here. :roll:

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here.

I am still confused about how the ability to work outside the home and earn an income started being viewed as a chore and a burden rather than a desirable exercise of ones ability be able to use your mind and intelligence and be financially independent?

All I knew was women wanting to be more than just housewives and poop cleaners for their babies.

In the first world, its reversed. Women seem to want to go back into their kitchens.

You are being intentionally provocative.

Yep. OP started this thread for no other reason than to slam SAHMs. Just another tiresome mommy wars thread. If the point had been to slam WOHMs, we'd never hear the end of it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Glad you like working, OP. I like not working. What I hope for all my friends and loved ones is that they're content with their situation, whatever it may be.

+1

What an adult statement. Not judging other women? A novel idea!

[Anonymous]

Do you have kids, OP?

How old are they? Who cares for them?

You said a lot about working women and non-working women, but I didn't see anything specific about being a working parent.

Of course women should work. Of course we should be grateful for our freedom. But let's also allow ourselves to be humans and feel that what matters most, in the end, is our relationships with one another, and so we want to do this in a way that allows us to still feel loving and connected to one another.

Because for all the lack of freedoms in Pakistan, I think there are likely many Pakistanis who would consider American family culture to be relatively inferior to the closeness of their own families, at least from the outside looking in.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Dear middle-aged women: capri pants do nothing for you.

Women historically were literally not allowed to work outside of the home. Now that we can, it is a privilege. To think otherwise is to be ungrateful.

Disappointed in Kate Middleton.

Michelle Obama's Inappropriate strapless dresses.



All you women telling everyone what's right and what's not think you are smart, intelligent, and taken seriously. Not.

+1

Newsflash: NO ONE CARES what judgy women have to say.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here.

I am still confused about how the ability to work outside the home and earn an income started being viewed as a chore and a burden rather than a desirable exercise of ones ability be able to use your mind and intelligence and be financially independent?

All I knew was women wanting to be more than just housewives and poop cleaners for their babies.

In the first world, its reversed. Women seem to want to go back into their kitchens.

[phone]

Don't even bother trying to reason with American SAHM. They use some flawed logic to justify their decision to be a SAH. To live in a highly advanced nation and chose to be less productive is just stupidity. I still think the reason for this decision is laziness. No sugar coating this. It's pure laziness. When it's divorce time they seemed surprised by the outcome when the husband takes everything.

Btw: I'm an American born and raised and fortunate to have travelled the world and witness the economical challenges women face in various parts of the world. I'm fortunate to be able to work and provide for myself and family.

And yet completely immature. Education and traveling around the world has done nothing to help you grow outwards. I, I, I.

[Anonymous]

Cool story, bro!

Of course, if you married a doctor, lawyer, or some other kind of busy professional who can't/won't help with the house and kids, then you just might choose to quit the rat race and stay home with the kids...and then you'd likely hire a nanny and housekeeper...just like lots of other American mommies in DCUMLandia. There's no shame in it.

Personally, I'd rather cut off my arm than be a SAHM completely dependent on my husband. But if a lady wants to be a SAHM, that's no skin off my nose.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This doesn't seem like musings. It's you starting another lame WOHM vs SAHM debate. Good for you that you love working out of the home, that you don't envy SAHMs and that you think working is the only way to contribute to society. Clap, clap.

My parents were immigrants and they love America as do I. It's because we have the CHOICE. No one here is forced to stay veiled and at home. If we can afford to stay at home we have that choice.

You don't have to put down a SAHM by thinking she isn't a contributing member to society. Your missing the point of the freedoms we have. Rather than thinking you are doing some great service to the world by earning a paycheck you're missing that you have that choice to do so or to not do so.

Working out of the home is not the privilege. The CHOICE is the privilege.

Yup, right here is the entire "argument," such as it is. No other words necessary.

It's not a *real* choice though, for many on DCUM. A real choice is when a woman is independently wealthy and doesn't have to make a financial or professional gamble to SAH. It seems to me that most of the women on DCUM who SAH do so because 1) their spouses worked really long hours/traveled frequently so it was too hard on the family not to have the wife SAH; 2) women were not able to negotiate a family-friendly work load (big law) after having young kids; 3) women earned too little to justify working only to break even with the high cost of child care.

The number one reason women I know in my very small sample of mothers in this area choose to stay home with their kids is because they have the luxury of a choice that having a parent at home is the best possible situation for their particular family, especially their kids. Period. This is as real and valid a choice as any, whether you agree or disagree.

Fixed that for you.

Whatever you say. You seem very comfortable generalizing what "should" be the correct choice for all women. You live your life and I'll live mine. I'm not at all interested in how you choose to raise your kids - why would you care how others choose to do it?

Wow. That whooshing sound over your head was the point being made.... Your post is unbelievably ironic.

[Anonymous]

So women in Pakistan have it shitty, therefore all American women must work. Got it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here.

I am still confused about how the ability to work outside the home and earn an income started being viewed as a chore and a burden rather than a desirable exercise of ones ability be able to use your mind and intelligence and be financially independent?

All I knew was women wanting to be more than just housewives and poop cleaners for their babies.

In the first world, its reversed. Women seem to want to go back into their kitchens.

[phone]

Don't even bother trying to reason with American SAHM. They use some flawed logic to justify their decision to be a SAH. To live in a highly advanced nation and chose to be less productive is just stupidity. I still think the reason for this decision is laziness. No sugar coating this. It's pure laziness. When it's divorce time they seemed surprised by the outcome when the husband takes everything.

Btw: I'm an American born and raised and fortunate to have travelled the world and witness the economical challenges women face in various parts of the world. I'm fortunate to be able to work and provide for myself and family.

+100

I agree. I don't have to work. We could easily live off my husband's $500k+ income.

I have had part-time jobs throughout childhood (babysitting, mothers helper), teens (retail, camp counselor), college/grad school (waiting tables, teaching). assistant). I've had my full-time career since it began at 25. I am now 46. I scaled back at times. I WAH full-time now, but I could never imagine not doing anything- but shopping, gossiping, having coffees. I already volunteer extensively at my kids' school.

I am wistful at times to think what it must be like to have unlimited free time with kids in school all day long--but I don't have the ability to do nothing.

I have heard many justifications that don't add up- especially when circumstances change. For most (not all), I agree that laziness is the reason.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here.

I am still confused about how the ability to work outside the home and earn an income started being viewed as a chore and a burden rather than a desirable exercise of ones ability be able to use your mind and intelligence and be financially independent?

All I knew was women wanting to be more than just housewives and poop cleaners for their babies.

In the first world, its reversed. Women seem to want to go back into their kitchens.

[phone]

Don't even bother trying to reason with American SAHM. They use some flawed logic to justify their decision to be a SAH. To live in a highly advanced nation and chose to be less productive is just stupidity. I still think the reason for this decision is laziness. No sugar coating this. It's pure laziness. When it's divorce time they seemed surprised by the outcome when the husband takes everything.

Btw: I'm an American born and raised and fortunate to have travelled the world and witness the economical challenges women face in various parts of the world. I'm fortunate to be able to work and provide for myself and family.

It's "economic," not "economical." Clearly, your American-born privilege didn't quite extend to your education.

Your post is so ignorant that there's not much left to say. Other than it's such a good thing your kids aren't staying home with you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Many DCUM women will have you believe they work because they love it.

For the most part, they lie. They work because it's necessary for their family. Many would quit in a heartbeat if their financial way of life would not be affected.

+1
You will only see women on DCUM claiming they "love" their jobs. It's hysterical.