An immigrants musings on the SAHM vs working mom debate

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hear, hear, OP. I am the daughter of an Indian immigrant mother (naturalized US citizen) who came to America in the 1960s to study organic chemistry. She was proud to work, even when she had difficulty finding jobs in her field because she was "overqualified." My dad is also Indian American and a proud feminist. I would never give up the opportunity to study and "develop my mind" and contribute to my family through challenging work, as you put it so well. When a country and people become rich, they forget what previous generations fought so hard for. I agree American women have the choice to stay home, and that choice is a good thing, but it does disappoint me greatly that so many well educated women would choose it. You may choose, but I judge your choice and find it lame.

Which is very telling, isn't it? Sorry your life is so unhappy you feel the need to judge others - who actually ARE happy.

ditto this.
Happy people don't judge others. Period.

OP here.

This is silly. We just think it is a shame to not take advantage of so many opportunities available to women in this country. Motherhood is amazing and life changing but honestly, children really really need you to be there the first 12 years of their life. Once they become teenagers they do not need a parent hovering over their every move. Women need to develop a sense of identity aside from being a mom and a purpose besides being a mother. What will you do once your kid goes off to college? Once the hard work of 4 am feedings, cleaning poop and giving baths are over, a woman needs to find other means to occupy her time.

Why would you not want to develop your mind, learn new things, grow as an individual and as a professional? Don't you want to step outside your house in the suburbs and find things to talk about other than how there's a great deal on Jack Rogers at Nordstroms or how your 6 year old needs glasses?

You're in the United States of America. You can be more than just a housewife. Don't you want to show your daughter or son that you, as a woman, can take an active role in your community?

I don't stay up at night worried for what you're missing out on but sometimes, as I am walking down the aisle at whole foods and see a woman who is clearly a SAHM, these thoughts cross my mind.

And it's a shame that you can't get your head out of your ass long enough to understand that all people are not you and all people do not want to be you.

It's also a shame that you're so judgmental about the choices other people make and in such a blanket statement type of way. 'All SAHMs are poop cleaners, with no intellectual use, that only go shopping and don't contribute to society'. 'I don't get it'... just my sahm/wohm debate musings, cue fake smile.

+1
I love how OP keeps hiding behind her (probably fake) story about being an immigrant. She just sounds ridiculous and ignorant.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hear, hear, OP. I am the daughter of an Indian immigrant mother (naturalized US citizen) who came to America in the 1960s to study organic chemistry. She was proud to work, even when she had difficulty finding jobs in her field because she was "overqualified." My dad is also Indian American and a proud feminist. I would never give up the opportunity to study and "develop my mind" and contribute to my family through challenging work, as you put it so well. When a country and people become rich, they forget what previous generations fought so hard for. I agree American women have the choice to stay home, and that choice is a good thing, but it does disappoint me greatly that so many well educated women would choose it. You may choose, but I judge your choice and find it lame.

Which is very telling, isn't it? Sorry your life is so unhappy you feel the need to judge others - who actually ARE happy.

ditto this.
Happy people don't judge others. Period.

OP here.

This is silly. We just think it is a shame to not take advantage of so many opportunities available to women in this country. Motherhood is amazing and life changing but honestly, children really really need you to be there the first 12 years of their life. Once they become teenagers they do not need a parent hovering over their every move. Women need to develop a sense of identity aside from being a mom and a purpose besides being a mother. What will you do once your kid goes off to college? Once the hard work of 4 am feedings, cleaning poop and giving baths are over, a woman needs to find other means to occupy her time.

Why would you not want to develop your mind, learn new things, grow as an individual and as a professional? Don't you want to step outside your house in the suburbs and find things to talk about other than how there's a great deal on Jack Rogers at Nordstroms or how your 6 year old needs glasses?

You're in the United States of America. You can be more than just a housewife. Don't you want to show your daughter or son that you, as a woman, can take an active role in your community?

I don't stay up at night worried for what you're missing out on but sometimes, as I am walking down the aisle at whole foods and see a woman who is clearly a SAHM, these thoughts cross my mind.

And it's a shame that you can't get your head out of your ass long enough to understand that all people are not you and all people do not want to be you.

It's also a shame that you're so judgmental about the choices other people make and in such a blanket statement type of way. 'All SAHMs are poop cleaners, with no intellectual use, that only go shopping and don't contribute to society'. 'I don't get it'... just my sahm/wohm debate musings, cue fake smile.

Why are you being so defensive? I'm asking an honest question. You sound like a 13 year old, " I can do what I want! Whaaa! Whaaa!"

Of course you can do what you want. I presume you're a grown woman! I'm just confused and saddened that you're giving up so much so much. I just want an honest response about why you chose this path among so many other viable alternatives.

Not the PP, but you are clearly trolling and hoping for people to get defensive. You're enjoying it. Suffice it to say, your choices are not at all what my choices would be. Your life isn't something I envy or would want to emulate. The difference is, I didn't need to start a moronic post about the subject because I was bored silly... like you clearly are.

[Anonymous]

Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah .

There, I contributed in the same way OP has.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:


Why are you being so defensive? I'm asking an honest question. You sound like a 13 year old, " I can do what I want! Whaaa! Whaaa!"

Of course you can do what you want. I presume you're a grown woman! I'm just confused and saddened that you're giving up so much so much. I just want an honest response about why you chose this path among so many other viable alternatives.

People have given you lots of honest reasons. You seem to look at spending some time at home as all on the "giving up" side. I looked at my years at home as what I gained was worth a lot more to me than what I gave up. I actually enjoyed being the one caring for my babies and toddlers. I enjoyed being able to create a more relaxed life with DH since we weren't having to balance the demands of two jobs plus childcare and house responsibilities. Sure, I gave up income but a lot of that would have gone to childcare, house cleaner, etc. if I hadn't taken time off (I didn't have the luxury of a live-in grandma to do childcare. My mom is quite busy with her own career that she started after being a SAHM for 15 yrs).

Also, not all, and I guess not most SAHMs plan to be at-home forever. The norm among my friends has been to take 2-5 yrs off. I do have a few friends who are long-term SAHMs. They have either 1) 4+ kids with lots of activities 2) children with special needs 3) caring for a sick parent or 4) made a ton of money before having kids and are now highly involved in community service. Others may look to outsiders like SAHMs but they actually are working but managed to find jobs that are school hours and/or WAH. Try not to feel bad about that "SAHM" you see at the grocery store -- you have NO idea what her story is.

+1,000
Couldn't agree more.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah .

There, I contributed in the same way OP has.

haters gonna hate

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah .

There, I contributed in the same way OP has.

haters gonna hate

Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hear, hear, OP. I am the daughter of an Indian immigrant mother (naturalized US citizen) who came to America in the 1960s to study organic chemistry. She was proud to work, even when she had difficulty finding jobs in her field because she was "overqualified." My dad is also Indian American and a proud feminist. I would never give up the opportunity to study and "develop my mind" and contribute to my family through challenging work, as you put it so well. When a country and people become rich, they forget what previous generations fought so hard for. I agree American women have the choice to stay home, and that choice is a good thing, but it does disappoint me greatly that so many well educated women would choose it. You may choose, but I judge your choice and find it lame.

Which is very telling, isn't it? Sorry your life is so unhappy you feel the need to judge others - who actually ARE happy.

ditto this.
Happy people don't judge others. Period.

OP here.

This is silly. We just think it is a shame to not take advantage of so many opportunities available to women in this country. Motherhood is amazing and life changing but honestly, children really really need you to be there the first 12 years of their life. Once they become teenagers they do not need a parent hovering over their every move. Women need to develop a sense of identity aside from being a mom and a purpose besides being a mother. What will you do once your kid goes off to college? Once the hard work of 4 am feedings, cleaning poop and giving baths are over, a woman needs to find other means to occupy her time.

Why would you not want to develop your mind, learn new things, grow as an individual and as a professional? Don't you want to step outside your house in the suburbs and find things to talk about other than how there's a great deal on Jack Rogers at Nordstroms or how your 6 year old needs glasses?

You're in the United States of America. You can be more than just a housewife. Don't you want to show your daughter or son that you, as a woman, can take an active role in your community?

I don't stay up at night worried for what you're missing out on but sometimes, as I am walking down the aisle at whole foods and see a woman who is clearly a SAHM, these thoughts cross my mind.

I guarantee you, the woman you're judging in Whole Foods really couldn't care less what you think about her. How funny that you would judge someone you don't even know. You have no idea what she does or who she is or what her story is. Nor are any of those things your business at all. Perhaps you should stick to your own very narrow view of the world and how it "should" run.

I wasn't at whole foods today I was golfing. I wasn't worried about this Pakistani woman (or any other) judging me. I played with a high earning WAH mom who doesn't judge me- nor I her. We both dressed almost identically. In fact, thinking of this thread and earning the pity and judgment of intellectually muscle flexing Pakistani women at whole foods I wondered how she would be able to tell the SAHM from the WAHM today on the course.

[Anonymous]

A haiku for the OP:

OP is confused
and oh-so-superior
but not very smart

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This doesn't seem like musings. It's you starting another lame WOHM vs SAHM debate. Good for you that you love working out of the home, that you don't envy SAHMs and that you think working is the only way to contribute to society. Clap, clap.

My parents were immigrants and they love America as do I. It's because we have the CHOICE. No one here is forced to stay veiled and at home. If we can afford to stay at home we have that choice.

You don't have to put down a SAHM by thinking she isn't a contributing member to society. Your missing the point of the freedoms we have. Rather than thinking you are doing some great service to the world by earning a paycheck you're missing that you have that choice to do so or to not do so.

Working out of the home is not the privilege. The CHOICE is the privilege.

Yup, right here is the entire "argument," such as it is. No other words necessary.

OP here. I disagree. Being able to provide for yourself, open a bank account in your name, being able to rent an apartment without needing a father or a husband to co-sign it for you. THAT is a privilege. Being able to go to a safe, clean office where you are respected and treated as an equal and allowed to voice your opinion and develop as a professional. That is a privilege.

In America, a woman does not HAVE to work. If she doesn't want a very UMC life, she can live comfortably on her husband's middle class salary sans the private school and the lululemon yoga pants. That she can do so if she WANTS to, that is a privilege.

Women historically were literally not allowed to work outside of the home. Now that we can, it is a privilege. To think otherwise is to be ungrateful.

Historically, you've been an idiot all your life. Not allowed to work outside the home? Who do you think did the job of maids, cooks, nannies, charwomen, laundry women, seamstresses, embroideresses, schoolteachers, hairdressers, nurses, my fingers hurt from typing already???? OH yeah I forgot it's not real work outside the home unless you run an investment bank. What an imbecile you are. Making stuff up as you go.

Seriously. Are there only upper class, rich white women posting on this thread, like it is on every other lame SAHM vs WM debate thread? I'm Black and every woman in my family have ALWAYS worked, from slaves to share cropping, from housekeepers to cooks, from teachers to executives. Poor women and women of color NEVER had the "choice", they've always been "contributing" to the workforce and society (not my sentiment at all, just quoting the vapid and judgmental OP).

[Anonymous]

The ironic thing is that OP's household back in Pakistan was probably filled to the brim with women, working outside THEIR homes, bringing her tea, washing her clothes, cleaning her bathrooms, wiping her ass. But it doesn't count, you see.

[Anonymous]

Hey OP -- where are you from in Pakistan? Let's exchange notes otherwise you are a big fat troll!

[Anonymous]

OP is nothing but a troll, folks. NOTHING about her post reads Pakistani origin to me. Nothing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The ironic thing is that OP's household back in Pakistan was probably filled to the brim with women, working outside THEIR homes, bringing her tea, washing her clothes, cleaning her bathrooms, wiping her ass. But it doesn't count, you see.

Good point. She even said as much in the beginning. I suspect she doesn't have the first clue about how life really works for less economically privileged people.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP is nothing but a troll, folks. NOTHING about her post reads Pakistani origin to me. Nothing.

It does actually. From the elitist, wealthy, privileged class. That's why she considers child care merely poop wiping and feels that it's shameful to not work and that working outside of the home is having pride and is equivalent to 'flexing intellectual muscle'.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The ironic thing is that OP's household back in Pakistan was probably filled to the brim with women, working outside THEIR homes, bringing her tea, washing her clothes, cleaning her bathrooms, wiping her ass. But it doesn't count, you see.

Good point. She even said as much in the beginning. I suspect she doesn't have the first clue about how life really works for less economically privileged people.

OP doesn't think these jobs count. She insulted everyone that is not working in an air-conditioned office going to meetings and having their voice heard.