An immigrants musings on the SAHM vs working mom debate

[Anonymous]

Glad you like working, OP. I like not working. What I hope for all my friends and loved ones is that they're content with their situation, whatever it may be.

[Anonymous]

Lovely post, OP. Not sure why everyone is deliberately missing the point of it. I read the OP as saying that she is happy to work because she recognizes the privilege of being able to work. I think the perspective she is intending to bring to the SAHM/WOHM debate is that there are people who cannot choose. You may say that here in the US there are also people who cannot choose, they have to WOHM. I believe that the OP said this was also true of lower income people in Pakistan. But for middle class/upper middle class/upper class people, in the US, there is a choice. In Pakistan, there is not. That is the point that is being made. I think it is interesting.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This doesn't seem like musings. It's you starting another lame WOHM vs SAHM debate. Good for you that you love working out of the home, that you don't envy SAHMs and that you think working is the only way to contribute to society. Clap, clap.

My parents were immigrants and they love America as do I. It's because we have the CHOICE. No one here is forced to stay veiled and at home. If we can afford to stay at home we have that choice.

You don't have to put down a SAHM by thinking she isn't a contributing member to society. Your missing the point of the freedoms we have. Rather than thinking you are doing some great service to the world by earning a paycheck you're missing that you have that choice to do so or to not do so.

Working out of the home is not the privilege. The CHOICE is the privilege.

Yup, right here is the entire "argument," such as it is. No other words necessary.

OP here. I disagree. Being able to provide for yourself, open a bank account in your name, being able to rent an apartment without needing a father or a husband to co-sign it for you. THAT is a privilege. Being able to go to a safe, clean office where you are respected and treated as an equal and allowed to voice your opinion and develop as a professional. That is a privilege.

In America, a woman does not HAVE to work. If she doesn't want a very UMC life, she can live comfortably on her husband's middle class salary sans the private school and the lululemon yoga pants. That she can do so if she WANTS to, that is a privilege.

Women historically were literally not allowed to work outside of the home. Now that we can, it is a privilege. To think otherwise is to be ungrateful.

It's not mutually exclusive, though, that's where you're misguided. First of all, "In America, a woman does not HAVE to work" is beyond untrue for very, very many families. Of course being able to work out of the home would be a privilege from your perspective. For others it's a matter of necessity and survival. But what you're missing is that it's also a privilege to not have to work out of the home. The feminists of the 60s and 70s fought very hard to ensure that women would be in a position to decide for herself and her family what makes sense to them and what works for them. THAT's the privilege.

How did the feminists do this? The only way to make this decision is to be in a financial position where it is possible to stay at home, and to have a husband who agrees with the decision to be the breadwinner.

[Anonymous]

^^ You realize feminists get married, right? Being a feminist and being married are not polar opposites.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have a trust fund and a great pre nup protecting my pre marital assets. I made the choice to have three children and stay at home, I won't return to full time work.

Most of my friends have chosen to SAH, and are happy with their choice. it's having the choice that made them feel grateful.

Omfg.

[Anonymous]

OP here.

I am still confused about how the ability to work outside the home and earn an income started being viewed as a chore and a burden rather than a desirable exercise of ones ability be able to use your mind and intelligence and be financially independent?

All I knew was women wanting to be more than just housewives and poop cleaners for their babies.

In the first world, its reversed. Women seem to want to go back into their kitchens.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here.

I am still confused about how the ability to work outside the home and earn an income started being viewed as a chore and a burden rather than a desirable exercise of ones ability be able to use your mind and intelligence and be financially independent?

All I knew was women wanting to be more than just housewives and poop cleaners for their babies.

In the first world, its reversed. Women seem to want to go back into their kitchens.

I think it's just hard when people are doing two different things and never feel like they are measuring up. I feel like my child's teachers compare me to the SAHM's that help out more in the middle of the day in the class, I feel like my boss compares me to the guy who has no child responsibilities. I don't mind working or having kids. I don't like feeling inadequate.

[Anonymous]

All the pakistani women that I know are doctors that work fulltime and have kids. I can count at these 6 of them off the top of my head.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here.

I am still confused about how the ability to work outside the home and earn an income started being viewed as a chore and a burden rather than a desirable exercise of ones ability be able to use your mind and intelligence and be financially independent?

All I knew was women wanting to be more than just housewives and poop cleaners for their babies.

In the first world, its reversed. Women seem to want to go back into their kitchens.

I think it's just hard when people are doing two different things and never feel like they are measuring up. I feel like my child's teachers compare me to the SAHM's that help out more in the middle of the day in the class, I feel like my boss compares me to the guy who has no child responsibilities. I don't mind working or having kids. I don't like feeling inadequate.

I personally don't care about how DC's teachers perceive me or about comparisons. However, for the OP, there is a difference between the "ability" to work outside the home and the necessity of going to work when one is stressed out about substandard, extremely expensive childcare. Do you not have any children in DC? FYI, the cost of putting an infant in a federal childcare center costs about $2000/month--IF you can get a spot.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This doesn't seem like musings. It's you starting another lame WOHM vs SAHM debate. Good for you that you love working out of the home, that you don't envy SAHMs and that you think working is the only way to contribute to society. Clap, clap.

My parents were immigrants and they love America as do I. It's because we have the CHOICE. No one here is forced to stay veiled and at home. If we can afford to stay at home we have that choice.

You don't have to put down a SAHM by thinking she isn't a contributing member to society. Your missing the point of the freedoms we have. Rather than thinking you are doing some great service to the world by earning a paycheck you're missing that you have that choice to do so or to not do so.

Working out of the home is not the privilege. The CHOICE is the privilege.

+1,000
Clearly the OP doesn't realize the obvious. Or that women with choices can actually choose to work part of their life and take time off to be SAHMs for part of their lives. Or, all of their lives, if that's what works for their families. It doesn't have to be an all or nothing proposition.

I feel fortunate every day to have the choice to do what works for my family.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here.

I am still confused about how the ability to work outside the home and earn an income started being viewed as a chore and a burden rather than a desirable exercise of ones ability be able to use your mind and intelligence and be financially independent?

All I knew was women wanting to be more than just housewives and poop cleaners for their babies.

In the first world, its reversed. Women seem to want to go back into their kitchens.

It becomes a chore and a burden when it is no longer a choice or option. Duh.

That's why the privilege is having a choice- The privilege is not working and it's not staying at home. It's the choice to do either.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Thank you for a lovely and interesting post OP.

The shrews won't like it though.

So I take it you'd be just fine being told that because you WOH you aren't raising your own kids, right? It's ok to slam SAHMs, but never WOHMs, correct?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This doesn't seem like musings. It's you starting another lame WOHM vs SAHM debate. Good for you that you love working out of the home, that you don't envy SAHMs and that you think working is the only way to contribute to society. Clap, clap.

My parents were immigrants and they love America as do I. It's because we have the CHOICE. No one here is forced to stay veiled and at home. If we can afford to stay at home we have that choice.

You don't have to put down a SAHM by thinking she isn't a contributing member to society. Your missing the point of the freedoms we have. Rather than thinking you are doing some great service to the world by earning a paycheck you're missing that you have that choice to do so or to not do so.

Working out of the home is not the privilege. The CHOICE is the privilege.

Yup, right here is the entire "argument," such as it is. No other words necessary.

It's not a *real* choice though, for many on DCUM. A real choice is when a woman is independently wealthy and doesn't have to make a financial or professional gamble to SAH. It seems to me that most of the women on DCUM who SAH do so because 1) their spouses worked really long hours/traveled frequently so it was too hard on the family not to have the wife SAH; 2) women were not able to negotiate a family-friendly work load (big law) after having young kids; 3) women earned too little to justify working only to break even with the high cost of child care.

The number one reason women in this area choose to stay home with their kids is because they know that having a parent at home is the best possible situation for everyone in the family, especially their kids. Period. This is as real and valid a choice as any, whether you agree or disagree.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This doesn't seem like musings. It's you starting another lame WOHM vs SAHM debate. Good for you that you love working out of the home, that you don't envy SAHMs and that you think working is the only way to contribute to society. Clap, clap.

My parents were immigrants and they love America as do I. It's because we have the CHOICE. No one here is forced to stay veiled and at home. If we can afford to stay at home we have that choice.

You don't have to put down a SAHM by thinking she isn't a contributing member to society. Your missing the point of the freedoms we have. Rather than thinking you are doing some great service to the world by earning a paycheck you're missing that you have that choice to do so or to not do so.

Working out of the home is not the privilege. The CHOICE is the privilege.

Yup, right here is the entire "argument," such as it is. No other words necessary.

It's not a *real* choice though, for many on DCUM. A real choice is when a woman is independently wealthy and doesn't have to make a financial or professional gamble to SAH. It seems to me that most of the women on DCUM who SAH do so because 1) their spouses worked really long hours/traveled frequently so it was too hard on the family not to have the wife SAH; 2) women were not able to negotiate a family-friendly work load (big law) after having young kids; 3) women earned too little to justify working only to break even with the high cost of child care.

The number one reason women I know in my very small sample of mothers in this area choose to stay home with their kids is because they have the luxury of a choice that having a parent at home is the best possible situation for their particular family, especially their kids. Period. This is as real and valid a choice as any, whether you agree or disagree.

Fixed that for you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This doesn't seem like musings. It's you starting another lame WOHM vs SAHM debate. Good for you that you love working out of the home, that you don't envy SAHMs and that you think working is the only way to contribute to society. Clap, clap.

My parents were immigrants and they love America as do I. It's because we have the CHOICE. No one here is forced to stay veiled and at home. If we can afford to stay at home we have that choice.

You don't have to put down a SAHM by thinking she isn't a contributing member to society. Your missing the point of the freedoms we have. Rather than thinking you are doing some great service to the world by earning a paycheck you're missing that you have that choice to do so or to not do so.

Working out of the home is not the privilege. The CHOICE is the privilege.

Yup, right here is the entire "argument," such as it is. No other words necessary.

OP here. I disagree. Being able to provide for yourself, open a bank account in your name, being able to rent an apartment without needing a father or a husband to co-sign it for you. THAT is a privilege. Being able to go to a safe, clean office where you are respected and treated as an equal and allowed to voice your opinion and develop as a professional. That is a privilege.

In America, a woman does not HAVE to work. If she doesn't want a very UMC life, she can live comfortably on her husband's middle class salary sans the private school and the lululemon yoga pants. That she can do so if she WANTS to, that is a privilege.

Women historically were literally not allowed to work outside of the home. Now that we can, it is a privilege. To think otherwise is to be ungrateful.

Actually, as another poster so succinctly put it: the choice to either WOH or SAHM is the privilege. I'm grateful every single day to have this choice and to do what's right for my family. Perhaps our needs will change in the future and I'll make a different choice. But for now, I certainly don't need someone who looks at our lives through the lens of her own patriarchal homeland to tell other women how to best live their lives. Here in America, we have husbands who are equal partners and who don't beat us or keep us locked up at home. And men who think they can get away with that are hauled off to jail, where they belong. My husband is my biggest supporter - whether I choose to WOH or SAH with our kids - and the husbands of my friends and family members are the same way.

I will be forever grateful to have been born in this country where men don't have their thumb on me at all times, and I'm free to choose how to live my life. I'm glad you recognize how lucky you are to now be living in a country in which we all have these freedoms. I can't imagine living in a patriarchal society such as the one you came from.