When other kids are unkind to your kid, how do you keep emotional distance from it?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sometimes the moms who see their kids as the biggest victims have the biggest bullies. Careful that you’re not the grown adult causing trauma to a child, not to mention teachers, administrators and others in the community.

The moms have bullies? What? How do the moms traumatize teachers and administrators? What on earth?

I've seen this too. The moms who are the most ferocious about protecting their kids and the first to announce that others are being mean to their kid, are so often the ones raising the actual bullies. Guess what, the other kids are all yelling at your kid to go away at recess not because they're bullying him, but because your kid has spent the past 5 minutes spitting on kids shoes and cursing under his breath at anyone who beats him in a recess game. It's not every time.... but it's enough times to make me question when a mom storms the school accusing multiple kids of bullying her child, and I usually ask my kid about that child to make sure that child isn't actually the one being nasty.

But you're being just as bad! Worse, because you're playing detective and relying on reports of bystanders who might not know the context. In fact in the situation you describe, the kid likely to get labeled as "mean" by other kids is most likely to be the one yelling at the spitting/cursing kid to go away. Because the yelling is loud and direct, and the spitting/cursing may have been done quietly or under the radar. So your kid goes home and tells you the yelling kid was "bullying" someone innocent (they don't know about the spitting or cursing which happened when they weren't looking and was intentionally quiet) and you take it at face value and decide yelling kid is "nasty" without understanding the situation at all.

Oh and here's one I've personally seen -- then yelling kid starts getting harassed by other kids who stick up for the kid who spit and cursed at him, and they gang up (thinking they are confronting a "bully") by calling him names (meanie, bully, etc.). They think they are sticking up for a peer but they are actually ostracizing a kid for sticking up for himself.

Be very, very careful with the tales your kid comes home with of playground conflicts. You are right the victims and perpetrators are sometimes the reverse of who they first appear to be.

Go to bed crazy

No that was a good post. The moms who gossip with their kids about who is good and who is "nasty" are part of the problem. A lot of parents don't understand playground politics, especially just hearing about it second hand. You should take the stuff your kids tell you about other kids with a grain of salt.

The worst is when bullied child’s mom creates a long-term problem with a victim narrative. For example, two kids don’t like each other. A fight breaks out almost weekly as a result. One mom ignores it but the other says he’s being bullied. She starts trying to “help.” Talks to the teachers. Teachers keep an eye out but they don’t see a victim. Mom gets even more upset. Maybe she tries a different approach by talking to the kid about something like likability. In the kid world, it’s still weird.

Eventually kids who weren’t even in the original fight start getting put off. Then mom starts saying the whole class is a problem. If the entire class or grade is a problem, the child was probably not a victim. The problem was the child was an equal aggressor whose mom took her kid’s feelings personally without thinking of any other kid’s feelings.

My kid was in this exact situation. Kid’s mom filed formal bullying reports for almost every little conflict at school. Eventually they switched schools, but it was driving all the kids nuts (even kids who weren’t really a part of it).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sometimes the moms who see their kids as the biggest victims have the biggest bullies. Careful that you’re not the grown adult causing trauma to a child, not to mention teachers, administrators and others in the community.

The moms have bullies? What? How do the moms traumatize teachers and administrators? What on earth?

I've seen this too. The moms who are the most ferocious about protecting their kids and the first to announce that others are being mean to their kid, are so often the ones raising the actual bullies. Guess what, the other kids are all yelling at your kid to go away at recess not because they're bullying him, but because your kid has spent the past 5 minutes spitting on kids shoes and cursing under his breath at anyone who beats him in a recess game. It's not every time.... but it's enough times to make me question when a mom storms the school accusing multiple kids of bullying her child, and I usually ask my kid about that child to make sure that child isn't actually the one being nasty.

But you're being just as bad! Worse, because you're playing detective and relying on reports of bystanders who might not know the context. In fact in the situation you describe, the kid likely to get labeled as "mean" by other kids is most likely to be the one yelling at the spitting/cursing kid to go away. Because the yelling is loud and direct, and the spitting/cursing may have been done quietly or under the radar. So your kid goes home and tells you the yelling kid was "bullying" someone innocent (they don't know about the spitting or cursing which happened when they weren't looking and was intentionally quiet) and you take it at face value and decide yelling kid is "nasty" without understanding the situation at all.

Oh and here's one I've personally seen -- then yelling kid starts getting harassed by other kids who stick up for the kid who spit and cursed at him, and they gang up (thinking they are confronting a "bully") by calling him names (meanie, bully, etc.). They think they are sticking up for a peer but they are actually ostracizing a kid for sticking up for himself.

Be very, very careful with the tales your kid comes home with of playground conflicts. You are right the victims and perpetrators are sometimes the reverse of who they first appear to be.

Go to bed crazy

No that was a good post. The moms who gossip with their kids about who is good and who is "nasty" are part of the problem. A lot of parents don't understand playground politics, especially just hearing about it second hand. You should take the stuff your kids tell you about other kids with a grain of salt.

The worst is when bullied child’s mom creates a long-term problem with a victim narrative. For example, two kids don’t like each other. A fight breaks out almost weekly as a result. One mom ignores it but the other says he’s being bullied. She starts trying to “help.” Talks to the teachers. Teachers keep an eye out but they don’t see a victim. Mom gets even more upset. Maybe she tries a different approach by talking to the kid about something like likability. In the kid world, it’s still weird.

Eventually kids who weren’t even in the original fight start getting put off. Then mom starts saying the whole class is a problem. If the entire class or grade is a problem, the child was probably not a victim. The problem was the child was an equal aggressor whose mom took her kid’s feelings personally without thinking of any other kid’s feelings.

My kid was in this exact situation. Kid’s mom filed formal bullying reports for almost every little conflict at school. Eventually they switched schools, but it was driving all the kids nuts (even kids who weren’t really a part of it).

I actually wish the mom I knew like this would file a formal bullying report, because I think doing so would help her to see that what is happening is NOT bullying. The bullying report makes it clear what is and is not bullying. She thinks every time another child isn't maximally kind and welcoming to her kid, it's bullying. Her kid has also internalized this and walks around calling kids bullies all the time just because they don't want to play with her. It's gotten ridiculous and there zero self-awareness with the mom, who I think would greatly benefit from someone explaining to her clearly that a child not wanting to play with her daughter is not "bullying" -- it's just life. My kid has also had the experience of wanting to be friends with another child who wasn't interested. It's heartbreaking, but my job there is to help my kid deal with that disappointment and move on, not to go marching into the school and demanding the school force the kid to play with mine.

[Anonymous]

A 7th grader went to his mom showing text messages about being bullied. Typical seventh grader, he deleted all of the texts where he was the aggressor. The mom angrily texted the other moms demanding intervention. The other children had the text message chain with all of the messages, including the deleted ones. The 7th grader was just as much of an aggressor as the others.

Most would humbly apologize. This Mom doubled down. Demanded that the school fix the issue.

Eventually the kid did become a target, because of the mom.

Mom had four kids. Each one of her kids was a problem. The problem was not the school. It was her.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sometimes the moms who see their kids as the biggest victims have the biggest bullies. Careful that you’re not the grown adult causing trauma to a child, not to mention teachers, administrators and others in the community.

The moms have bullies? What? How do the moms traumatize teachers and administrators? What on earth?

I've seen this too. The moms who are the most ferocious about protecting their kids and the first to announce that others are being mean to their kid, are so often the ones raising the actual bullies. Guess what, the other kids are all yelling at your kid to go away at recess not because they're bullying him, but because your kid has spent the past 5 minutes spitting on kids shoes and cursing under his breath at anyone who beats him in a recess game. It's not every time.... but it's enough times to make me question when a mom storms the school accusing multiple kids of bullying her child, and I usually ask my kid about that child to make sure that child isn't actually the one being nasty.

But you're being just as bad! Worse, because you're playing detective and relying on reports of bystanders who might not know the context. In fact in the situation you describe, the kid likely to get labeled as "mean" by other kids is most likely to be the one yelling at the spitting/cursing kid to go away. Because the yelling is loud and direct, and the spitting/cursing may have been done quietly or under the radar. So your kid goes home and tells you the yelling kid was "bullying" someone innocent (they don't know about the spitting or cursing which happened when they weren't looking and was intentionally quiet) and you take it at face value and decide yelling kid is "nasty" without understanding the situation at all.

Oh and here's one I've personally seen -- then yelling kid starts getting harassed by other kids who stick up for the kid who spit and cursed at him, and they gang up (thinking they are confronting a "bully") by calling him names (meanie, bully, etc.). They think they are sticking up for a peer but they are actually ostracizing a kid for sticking up for himself.

Be very, very careful with the tales your kid comes home with of playground conflicts. You are right the victims and perpetrators are sometimes the reverse of who they first appear to be.

Go to bed crazy

No that was a good post. The moms who gossip with their kids about who is good and who is "nasty" are part of the problem. A lot of parents don't understand playground politics, especially just hearing about it second hand. You should take the stuff your kids tell you about other kids with a grain of salt.

where did I say I didnt??? I simply ask my kid something like "hey I heard that there might be some problems at recess recently with Larlo. Is everything ok?" and he'll say "ugh, Larlo comes out and tells us all to go F ourselves and stomps on our toes when we are playing basketball at recess every single day, but we aren't allowed to tell him to stop playing with us because his mom complains to the school or something when we tried to do that. So we let him play but like, it's not any fun to play when he's there and he always ends up crying anyways if he doesn't win, and then when that happens, he says he's going to tell on us? What should I do next time, it's so frustrating". And i'll say, hey that sounds tough, i'd just avoid playing with someone who doesn't make you feel good even if it means avoiding basketball right now, see if things blow over in a week. Because yeah I don't know the details and how much is exaggerated and what part my own kid played, but i do know that the solution is to avoid eachother for a few days or weeks to let things blow over.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sometimes the moms who see their kids as the biggest victims have the biggest bullies. Careful that you’re not the grown adult causing trauma to a child, not to mention teachers, administrators and others in the community.

The moms have bullies? What? How do the moms traumatize teachers and administrators? What on earth?

I've seen this too. The moms who are the most ferocious about protecting their kids and the first to announce that others are being mean to their kid, are so often the ones raising the actual bullies. Guess what, the other kids are all yelling at your kid to go away at recess not because they're bullying him, but because your kid has spent the past 5 minutes spitting on kids shoes and cursing under his breath at anyone who beats him in a recess game. It's not every time.... but it's enough times to make me question when a mom storms the school accusing multiple kids of bullying her child, and I usually ask my kid about that child to make sure that child isn't actually the one being nasty.

But you're being just as bad! Worse, because you're playing detective and relying on reports of bystanders who might not know the context. In fact in the situation you describe, the kid likely to get labeled as "mean" by other kids is most likely to be the one yelling at the spitting/cursing kid to go away. Because the yelling is loud and direct, and the spitting/cursing may have been done quietly or under the radar. So your kid goes home and tells you the yelling kid was "bullying" someone innocent (they don't know about the spitting or cursing which happened when they weren't looking and was intentionally quiet) and you take it at face value and decide yelling kid is "nasty" without understanding the situation at all.

Oh and here's one I've personally seen -- then yelling kid starts getting harassed by other kids who stick up for the kid who spit and cursed at him, and they gang up (thinking they are confronting a "bully") by calling him names (meanie, bully, etc.). They think they are sticking up for a peer but they are actually ostracizing a kid for sticking up for himself.

Be very, very careful with the tales your kid comes home with of playground conflicts. You are right the victims and perpetrators are sometimes the reverse of who they first appear to be.

Go to bed crazy

No that was a good post. The moms who gossip with their kids about who is good and who is "nasty" are part of the problem. A lot of parents don't understand playground politics, especially just hearing about it second hand. You should take the stuff your kids tell you about other kids with a grain of salt.

The worst is when bullied child’s mom creates a long-term problem with a victim narrative. For example, two kids don’t like each other. A fight breaks out almost weekly as a result. One mom ignores it but the other says he’s being bullied. She starts trying to “help.” Talks to the teachers. Teachers keep an eye out but they don’t see a victim. Mom gets even more upset. Maybe she tries a different approach by talking to the kid about something like likability. In the kid world, it’s still weird.

Eventually kids who weren’t even in the original fight start getting put off. Then mom starts saying the whole class is a problem. If the entire class or grade is a problem, the child was probably not a victim. The problem was the child was an equal aggressor whose mom took her kid’s feelings personally without thinking of any other kid’s feelings.

Agree that mom is a problem but also if there are two kids who don't get along to the point that other kids are getting put off by all the fighting, why the heck aren't teachers intervening to separate those kids? Like forget victims/bullies, people over-fixate on those labels because they are afraid of admitting their kids are not perfect, but if two kids are just oil and water it's really not that hard to just reinforce at school "hey stay away from Larlo you two don't get along" until they leave each other alone.

Then you also don't distract/annoy all the other kids who are getting along fine.

Many playground challenges could be managed better. This issue is about parents who feel their own kid’s pain deeply. Parents who are willing to get involved on behalf of all children are different than parents who only champion their own child’s pain over every other child’s.

I like how this is worded and I agree

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sometimes the moms who see their kids as the biggest victims have the biggest bullies. Careful that you’re not the grown adult causing trauma to a child, not to mention teachers, administrators and others in the community.

The moms have bullies? What? How do the moms traumatize teachers and administrators? What on earth?

I've seen this too. The moms who are the most ferocious about protecting their kids and the first to announce that others are being mean to their kid, are so often the ones raising the actual bullies. Guess what, the other kids are all yelling at your kid to go away at recess not because they're bullying him, but because your kid has spent the past 5 minutes spitting on kids shoes and cursing under his breath at anyone who beats him in a recess game. It's not every time.... but it's enough times to make me question when a mom storms the school accusing multiple kids of bullying her child, and I usually ask my kid about that child to make sure that child isn't actually the one being nasty.

But you're being just as bad! Worse, because you're playing detective and relying on reports of bystanders who might not know the context. In fact in the situation you describe, the kid likely to get labeled as "mean" by other kids is most likely to be the one yelling at the spitting/cursing kid to go away. Because the yelling is loud and direct, and the spitting/cursing may have been done quietly or under the radar. So your kid goes home and tells you the yelling kid was "bullying" someone innocent (they don't know about the spitting or cursing which happened when they weren't looking and was intentionally quiet) and you take it at face value and decide yelling kid is "nasty" without understanding the situation at all.

Oh and here's one I've personally seen -- then yelling kid starts getting harassed by other kids who stick up for the kid who spit and cursed at him, and they gang up (thinking they are confronting a "bully") by calling him names (meanie, bully, etc.). They think they are sticking up for a peer but they are actually ostracizing a kid for sticking up for himself.

Be very, very careful with the tales your kid comes home with of playground conflicts. You are right the victims and perpetrators are sometimes the reverse of who they first appear to be.

Go to bed crazy

No that was a good post. The moms who gossip with their kids about who is good and who is "nasty" are part of the problem. A lot of parents don't understand playground politics, especially just hearing about it second hand. You should take the stuff your kids tell you about other kids with a grain of salt.

where did I say I didnt??? I simply ask my kid something like "hey I heard that there might be some problems at recess recently with Larlo. Is everything ok?" and he'll say "ugh, Larlo comes out and tells us all to go F ourselves and stomps on our toes when we are playing basketball at recess every single day, but we aren't allowed to tell him to stop playing with us because his mom complains to the school or something when we tried to do that. So we let him play but like, it's not any fun to play when he's there and he always ends up crying anyways if he doesn't win, and then when that happens, he says he's going to tell on us? What should I do next time, it's so frustrating". And i'll say, hey that sounds tough, i'd just avoid playing with someone who doesn't make you feel good even if it means avoiding basketball right now, see if things blow over in a week. Because yeah I don't know the details and how much is exaggerated and what part my own kid played, but i do know that the solution is to avoid eachother for a few days or weeks to let things blow over.

The moms complaining about every interaction are a problem for sure but you are still giving WAY to much credence to what your kids are saying. Like I would take a kid's claim that "we aren't allowed to tell him to stop laying with us because his mom complains to the school or something" with like a mountain of salt. How would they even have that info? No teacher is telling them "okay you guys can't tell Larlo to stop stomping on your toes because his mom complains." Which means they are getting this second hand from another kid and who knows who that kid got it from.

In terms of parents, I only trust my own personal experience (like if a parent has contacted me directly or has directly told me what they did). Schools can't tell you what other parents are doing, and kids aren't reliable. IME if a mom is a big overstepper and freaking out about every interaction, you learn about it because you hear from that mom directly. I also had a situation once where the mom was AT the school all the time (under the auspices of volunteering) and I saw her behavior and heard about it from other parents who also saw it. But I'm not trusting my kid to tell me what other kids parents are doing because I know my kids and their friends get super confused about this stuff. 2nd/3rd/4th is the worst for it -- they are arrogant and think they know everything but actually know very little and it causes all kinds of problems. Do not rely on kids this age to deliver accurate reports about school happenings.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sometimes the moms who see their kids as the biggest victims have the biggest bullies. Careful that you’re not the grown adult causing trauma to a child, not to mention teachers, administrators and others in the community.

The moms have bullies? What? How do the moms traumatize teachers and administrators? What on earth?

I've seen this too. The moms who are the most ferocious about protecting their kids and the first to announce that others are being mean to their kid, are so often the ones raising the actual bullies. Guess what, the other kids are all yelling at your kid to go away at recess not because they're bullying him, but because your kid has spent the past 5 minutes spitting on kids shoes and cursing under his breath at anyone who beats him in a recess game. It's not every time.... but it's enough times to make me question when a mom storms the school accusing multiple kids of bullying her child, and I usually ask my kid about that child to make sure that child isn't actually the one being nasty.

But you're being just as bad! Worse, because you're playing detective and relying on reports of bystanders who might not know the context. In fact in the situation you describe, the kid likely to get labeled as "mean" by other kids is most likely to be the one yelling at the spitting/cursing kid to go away. Because the yelling is loud and direct, and the spitting/cursing may have been done quietly or under the radar. So your kid goes home and tells you the yelling kid was "bullying" someone innocent (they don't know about the spitting or cursing which happened when they weren't looking and was intentionally quiet) and you take it at face value and decide yelling kid is "nasty" without understanding the situation at all.

Oh and here's one I've personally seen -- then yelling kid starts getting harassed by other kids who stick up for the kid who spit and cursed at him, and they gang up (thinking they are confronting a "bully") by calling him names (meanie, bully, etc.). They think they are sticking up for a peer but they are actually ostracizing a kid for sticking up for himself.

Be very, very careful with the tales your kid comes home with of playground conflicts. You are right the victims and perpetrators are sometimes the reverse of who they first appear to be.

Go to bed crazy

No that was a good post. The moms who gossip with their kids about who is good and who is "nasty" are part of the problem. A lot of parents don't understand playground politics, especially just hearing about it second hand. You should take the stuff your kids tell you about other kids with a grain of salt.

where did I say I didnt??? I simply ask my kid something like "hey I heard that there might be some problems at recess recently with Larlo. Is everything ok?" and he'll say "ugh, Larlo comes out and tells us all to go F ourselves and stomps on our toes when we are playing basketball at recess every single day, but we aren't allowed to tell him to stop playing with us because his mom complains to the school or something when we tried to do that. So we let him play but like, it's not any fun to play when he's there and he always ends up crying anyways if he doesn't win, and then when that happens, he says he's going to tell on us? What should I do next time, it's so frustrating". And i'll say, hey that sounds tough, i'd just avoid playing with someone who doesn't make you feel good even if it means avoiding basketball right now, see if things blow over in a week. Because yeah I don't know the details and how much is exaggerated and what part my own kid played, but i do know that the solution is to avoid eachother for a few days or weeks to let things blow over.

The moms complaining about every interaction are a problem for sure but you are still giving WAY to much credence to what your kids are saying. Like I would take a kid's claim that "we aren't allowed to tell him to stop laying with us because his mom complains to the school or something" with like a mountain of salt. How would they even have that info? No teacher is telling them "okay you guys can't tell Larlo to stop stomping on your toes because his mom complains." Which means they are getting this second hand from another kid and who knows who that kid got it from.

In terms of parents, I only trust my own personal experience (like if a parent has contacted me directly or has directly told me what they did). Schools can't tell you what other parents are doing, and kids aren't reliable. IME if a mom is a big overstepper and freaking out about every interaction, you learn about it because you hear from that mom directly. I also had a situation once where the mom was AT the school all the time (under the auspices of volunteering) and I saw her behavior and heard about it from other parents who also saw it. But I'm not trusting my kid to tell me what other kids parents are doing because I know my kids and their friends get super confused about this stuff. 2nd/3rd/4th is the worst for it -- they are arrogant and think they know everything but actually know very little and it causes all kinds of problems. Do not rely on kids this age to deliver accurate reports about school happenings.

Ok did you finish reading my post before typing this? Because the last line was this, "Because yeah I don't know the details and how much is exaggerated and what part my own kid played, but i do know that the solution is to avoid eachother for a few days or weeks to let things blow over." I clearly take what he says with a grain of salt. But I also tell him, hey it sounds like things are tough on the playground right know with Larlo, why don't you take a break from basketball for a week until stuff blows over. Because even if my kid were a bully and he isn't telling me that- the solution is to leave larlo to his own devices for a while and stop bugging him, right? Same if larlo is the bully- avoid him for a while. I don't have to know how much blame each kid deserves to recommend avoidance.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sometimes the moms who see their kids as the biggest victims have the biggest bullies. Careful that you’re not the grown adult causing trauma to a child, not to mention teachers, administrators and others in the community.

The moms have bullies? What? How do the moms traumatize teachers and administrators? What on earth?

I've seen this too. The moms who are the most ferocious about protecting their kids and the first to announce that others are being mean to their kid, are so often the ones raising the actual bullies. Guess what, the other kids are all yelling at your kid to go away at recess not because they're bullying him, but because your kid has spent the past 5 minutes spitting on kids shoes and cursing under his breath at anyone who beats him in a recess game. It's not every time.... but it's enough times to make me question when a mom storms the school accusing multiple kids of bullying her child, and I usually ask my kid about that child to make sure that child isn't actually the one being nasty.

But you're being just as bad! Worse, because you're playing detective and relying on reports of bystanders who might not know the context. In fact in the situation you describe, the kid likely to get labeled as "mean" by other kids is most likely to be the one yelling at the spitting/cursing kid to go away. Because the yelling is loud and direct, and the spitting/cursing may have been done quietly or under the radar. So your kid goes home and tells you the yelling kid was "bullying" someone innocent (they don't know about the spitting or cursing which happened when they weren't looking and was intentionally quiet) and you take it at face value and decide yelling kid is "nasty" without understanding the situation at all.

Oh and here's one I've personally seen -- then yelling kid starts getting harassed by other kids who stick up for the kid who spit and cursed at him, and they gang up (thinking they are confronting a "bully") by calling him names (meanie, bully, etc.). They think they are sticking up for a peer but they are actually ostracizing a kid for sticking up for himself.

Be very, very careful with the tales your kid comes home with of playground conflicts. You are right the victims and perpetrators are sometimes the reverse of who they first appear to be.

Go to bed crazy

No that was a good post. The moms who gossip with their kids about who is good and who is "nasty" are part of the problem. A lot of parents don't understand playground politics, especially just hearing about it second hand. You should take the stuff your kids tell you about other kids with a grain of salt.

where did I say I didnt??? I simply ask my kid something like "hey I heard that there might be some problems at recess recently with Larlo. Is everything ok?" and he'll say "ugh, Larlo comes out and tells us all to go F ourselves and stomps on our toes when we are playing basketball at recess every single day, but we aren't allowed to tell him to stop playing with us because his mom complains to the school or something when we tried to do that. So we let him play but like, it's not any fun to play when he's there and he always ends up crying anyways if he doesn't win, and then when that happens, he says he's going to tell on us? What should I do next time, it's so frustrating". And i'll say, hey that sounds tough, i'd just avoid playing with someone who doesn't make you feel good even if it means avoiding basketball right now, see if things blow over in a week. Because yeah I don't know the details and how much is exaggerated and what part my own kid played, but i do know that the solution is to avoid eachother for a few days or weeks to let things blow over.

The moms complaining about every interaction are a problem for sure but you are still giving WAY to much credence to what your kids are saying. Like I would take a kid's claim that "we aren't allowed to tell him to stop laying with us because his mom complains to the school or something" with like a mountain of salt. How would they even have that info? No teacher is telling them "okay you guys can't tell Larlo to stop stomping on your toes because his mom complains." Which means they are getting this second hand from another kid and who knows who that kid got it from.

In terms of parents, I only trust my own personal experience (like if a parent has contacted me directly or has directly told me what they did). Schools can't tell you what other parents are doing, and kids aren't reliable. IME if a mom is a big overstepper and freaking out about every interaction, you learn about it because you hear from that mom directly. I also had a situation once where the mom was AT the school all the time (under the auspices of volunteering) and I saw her behavior and heard about it from other parents who also saw it. But I'm not trusting my kid to tell me what other kids parents are doing because I know my kids and their friends get super confused about this stuff. 2nd/3rd/4th is the worst for it -- they are arrogant and think they know everything but actually know very little and it causes all kinds of problems. Do not rely on kids this age to deliver accurate reports about school happenings.

Ok did you finish reading my post before typing this? Because the last line was this, "Because yeah I don't know the details and how much is exaggerated and what part my own kid played, but i do know that the solution is to avoid eachother for a few days or weeks to let things blow over." I clearly take what he says with a grain of salt. But I also tell him, hey it sounds like things are tough on the playground right know with Larlo, why don't you take a break from basketball for a week until stuff blows over. Because even if my kid were a bully and he isn't telling me that- the solution is to leave larlo to his own devices for a while and stop bugging him, right? Same if larlo is the bully- avoid him for a while. I don't have to know how much blame each kid deserves to recommend avoidance.

The very fact that you are even getting into conversations where your kids are speculating that another kids' parent is at the school complaining about something is just a bad sign. If my kids said something like that I would tell my kid "don't go spreading rumors like that, you have no idea." Like yes, also tell him to steer clear of a kid who is behaving that way but it just sounds like you are gossiping with your kids to decide who is "nasty" and whose mom is the worst and that is not great and could lead to them repeating this stuff at school which would actually be problematic.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:Sometimes the moms who see their kids as the biggest victims have the biggest bullies. Careful that you’re not the grown adult causing trauma to a child, not to mention teachers, administrators and others in the community.

The moms have bullies? What? How do the moms traumatize teachers and administrators? What on earth?

I've seen this too. The moms who are the most ferocious about protecting their kids and the first to announce that others are being mean to their kid, are so often the ones raising the actual bullies. Guess what, the other kids are all yelling at your kid to go away at recess not because they're bullying him, but because your kid has spent the past 5 minutes spitting on kids shoes and cursing under his breath at anyone who beats him in a recess game. It's not every time.... but it's enough times to make me question when a mom storms the school accusing multiple kids of bullying her child, and I usually ask my kid about that child to make sure that child isn't actually the one being nasty.

But you're being just as bad! Worse, because you're playing detective and relying on reports of bystanders who might not know the context. In fact in the situation you describe, the kid likely to get labeled as "mean" by other kids is most likely to be the one yelling at the spitting/cursing kid to go away. Because the yelling is loud and direct, and the spitting/cursing may have been done quietly or under the radar. So your kid goes home and tells you the yelling kid was "bullying" someone innocent (they don't know about the spitting or cursing which happened when they weren't looking and was intentionally quiet) and you take it at face value and decide yelling kid is "nasty" without understanding the situation at all.

Oh and here's one I've personally seen -- then yelling kid starts getting harassed by other kids who stick up for the kid who spit and cursed at him, and they gang up (thinking they are confronting a "bully") by calling him names (meanie, bully, etc.). They think they are sticking up for a peer but they are actually ostracizing a kid for sticking up for himself.

Be very, very careful with the tales your kid comes home with of playground conflicts. You are right the victims and perpetrators are sometimes the reverse of who they first appear to be.

Go to bed crazy

No that was a good post. The moms who gossip with their kids about who is good and who is "nasty" are part of the problem. A lot of parents don't understand playground politics, especially just hearing about it second hand. You should take the stuff your kids tell you about other kids with a grain of salt.

The worst is when bullied child’s mom creates a long-term problem with a victim narrative. For example, two kids don’t like each other. A fight breaks out almost weekly as a result. One mom ignores it but the other says he’s being bullied. She starts trying to “help.” Talks to the teachers. Teachers keep an eye out but they don’t see a victim. Mom gets even more upset. Maybe she tries a different approach by talking to the kid about something like likability. In the kid world, it’s still weird.

Eventually kids who weren’t even in the original fight start getting put off. Then mom starts saying the whole class is a problem. If the entire class or grade is a problem, the child was probably not a victim. The problem was the child was an equal aggressor whose mom took her kid’s feelings personally without thinking of any other kid’s feelings.

Agree that mom is a problem but also if there are two kids who don't get along to the point that other kids are getting put off by all the fighting, why the heck aren't teachers intervening to separate those kids? Like forget victims/bullies, people over-fixate on those labels because they are afraid of admitting their kids are not perfect, but if two kids are just oil and water it's really not that hard to just reinforce at school "hey stay away from Larlo you two don't get along" until they leave each other alone.

Then you also don't distract/annoy all the other kids who are getting along fine.

Many playground challenges could be managed better. This issue is about parents who feel their own kid’s pain deeply. Parents who are willing to get involved on behalf of all children are different than parents who only champion their own child’s pain over every other child’s.

I like how this is worded and I agree

I disagree because I don't want parents getting involved on behalf of all children. This is usually just a way to trojan horse their own interests into the school under the guise of "helping all the kids." It's just a way to push an individual agenda while claiming to be magnanimous. A parent who is honest that they are advocating for their own kid is easier to deal with to me because at least that's transparent, even if I privately think they are overreacting to something or identifying too much with their kids emotions.

[Anonymous]

It’s why teacher’s have favorite kids in their classes. Some kids are nicer to be around than others

[Anonymous]

These threads always devolve into PPs giving one scenario, maybe one that happened to their kid or one they witnessed, as though it is the only answer here. All moms who complain of their kids being bullied are raising bullies? No.

There are a million different possible scenarios and no kid is a completely reliable witness/narrator. FFS with all your stupid examples presented as though they are the whole explanation.

re: the OP, I think lots of moms don't forget when another kid really hurts their kid. Not the stupid little stuff, the mean big stuff. And that's okay as long as you keep it to yourself. Everyone is entitled to their feelings and some people really are just a-holes from start to finish. It's okay not to like those people or give them any time of your day.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:Sometimes the moms who see their kids as the biggest victims have the biggest bullies. Careful that you’re not the grown adult causing trauma to a child, not to mention teachers, administrators and others in the community.

The moms have bullies? What? How do the moms traumatize teachers and administrators? What on earth?

I've seen this too. The moms who are the most ferocious about protecting their kids and the first to announce that others are being mean to their kid, are so often the ones raising the actual bullies. Guess what, the other kids are all yelling at your kid to go away at recess not because they're bullying him, but because your kid has spent the past 5 minutes spitting on kids shoes and cursing under his breath at anyone who beats him in a recess game. It's not every time.... but it's enough times to make me question when a mom storms the school accusing multiple kids of bullying her child, and I usually ask my kid about that child to make sure that child isn't actually the one being nasty.

But you're being just as bad! Worse, because you're playing detective and relying on reports of bystanders who might not know the context. In fact in the situation you describe, the kid likely to get labeled as "mean" by other kids is most likely to be the one yelling at the spitting/cursing kid to go away. Because the yelling is loud and direct, and the spitting/cursing may have been done quietly or under the radar. So your kid goes home and tells you the yelling kid was "bullying" someone innocent (they don't know about the spitting or cursing which happened when they weren't looking and was intentionally quiet) and you take it at face value and decide yelling kid is "nasty" without understanding the situation at all.

Oh and here's one I've personally seen -- then yelling kid starts getting harassed by other kids who stick up for the kid who spit and cursed at him, and they gang up (thinking they are confronting a "bully") by calling him names (meanie, bully, etc.). They think they are sticking up for a peer but they are actually ostracizing a kid for sticking up for himself.

Be very, very careful with the tales your kid comes home with of playground conflicts. You are right the victims and perpetrators are sometimes the reverse of who they first appear to be.

Go to bed crazy

No that was a good post. The moms who gossip with their kids about who is good and who is "nasty" are part of the problem. A lot of parents don't understand playground politics, especially just hearing about it second hand. You should take the stuff your kids tell you about other kids with a grain of salt.

The worst is when bullied child’s mom creates a long-term problem with a victim narrative. For example, two kids don’t like each other. A fight breaks out almost weekly as a result. One mom ignores it but the other says he’s being bullied. She starts trying to “help.” Talks to the teachers. Teachers keep an eye out but they don’t see a victim. Mom gets even more upset. Maybe she tries a different approach by talking to the kid about something like likability. In the kid world, it’s still weird.

Eventually kids who weren’t even in the original fight start getting put off. Then mom starts saying the whole class is a problem. If the entire class or grade is a problem, the child was probably not a victim. The problem was the child was an equal aggressor whose mom took her kid’s feelings personally without thinking of any other kid’s feelings.

Agree that mom is a problem but also if there are two kids who don't get along to the point that other kids are getting put off by all the fighting, why the heck aren't teachers intervening to separate those kids? Like forget victims/bullies, people over-fixate on those labels because they are afraid of admitting their kids are not perfect, but if two kids are just oil and water it's really not that hard to just reinforce at school "hey stay away from Larlo you two don't get along" until they leave each other alone.

Then you also don't distract/annoy all the other kids who are getting along fine.

Many playground challenges could be managed better. This issue is about parents who feel their own kid’s pain deeply. Parents who are willing to get involved on behalf of all children are different than parents who only champion their own child’s pain over every other child’s.

I like how this is worded and I agree

I disagree because I don't want parents getting involved on behalf of all children. This is usually just a way to trojan horse their own interests into the school under the guise of "helping all the kids." It's just a way to push an individual agenda while claiming to be magnanimous. A parent who is honest that they are advocating for their own kid is easier to deal with to me because at least that's transparent, even if I privately think they are overreacting to something or identifying too much with their kids emotions.

I agree with this. There is not one parent who needs to intervene on behalf of 'all the kids'. Forget that. That is recipe for disaster. Mind your own kid, advocate for your own kid if it is appropriate and let the teachers/admin handle "all the kids".

[Anonymous]

Nope. I definitely hold grudges against these kids. In fact, I just saw one today who told my kid to shut up in maybe 6th grade. He's in high school now and I still thought a negative thought about him when I saw him.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Nope. I definitely hold grudges against these kids. In fact, I just saw one today who told my kid to shut up in maybe 6th grade. He's in high school now and I still thought a negative thought about him when I saw him.

The stuff that gets me is not the blunt insults (which are almost always addressed in the moment by someone), it's the subtle cruelty. My DD once told me that the difference between boys and girls is that boys just say mean stuff out loud and then get in trouble for it, but girls are mean in a "sly" way they don't get in trouble for. Certainly that's been true for her.

There was a boy who once called her the b-word at school, and she definitely still remember it and it was upsetting, but she got over it a long time ago because he was immediately reprimanded and everyone told her it wasn't okay he did that. I don't think either of us holds a grudge against that kid because it's obvious he has other issues.

Meanwhile some of the stuff girls have done... it's so much worse. Stuff like moving all her stuff out of her desk and to another desk so that her assigned seat mate could sit with someone she liked more, and then the girls playing dumb when asked about it and nothing was ever done (DD didn't even get her seat back!). This is the stuff that drives me crazy, the subtle meanness that flies under the radar but chips away at a kid's self confidence little by little. Sometimes I feel like I'm in a war with these kids to retain my kid's self worth. I will never say a word to these kids about it and I can smile and pretend like I like them fine, but I'll never forget this stuff. It's next level.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It’s why teacher’s have favorite kids in their classes. Some kids are nicer to be around than others

Eh, that's a different thing. It's normal for a teacher to have kids they just like more. It might differ by teacher too, because different teachers will like different qualities (the qualities they actively don't like will be the same, but some teachers like more outgoing kids, some like the quiet ones, etc). But that's personality and not about holding a grudge.

Meanwhile there's a kid who is by all accounts a generally nice kid who once did something really, really obnoxious to my kid. I tell myself it was an aberration and they never did it again and probably matured and learned from it. But some part of me will never forget it because it was so tough on my kid. Especially because this was a generally well liked kid, which made it hurt more.

I think it can be harder for the parent to move on because you're the one who listens at home when your kid really pours their heart out about it. I suspect it will be similar in the future when it's about heartbreak instead of of little peer conflicts. Will you ever *really* forgive someone who breaks your kid's heart? Probably not and that's okay.