AITA? Mortgage still in my name

[Anonymous]

Not sure why everyone is saying to get a real estate attorney. This guy is in breach of the divorce order.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Not sure why everyone is saying to get a real estate attorney. This guy is in breach of the divorce order.

Divorce attorney is the one, presumably, who failed to protect her interests in the first place by not getting her name off the mortgage in the beginning. Also, real estate attorney will be more familiar with real estate sale and terms but also know how to enter sale as part of divorce decree settlement.

Often a divorce attorney doesn’t know squat about the mechanics of court ordered real state sale. You need an attorney who can make sure all aspects of the sale go through.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would file in court with my lawyer tomorrow. It could still take years. Obviously he doesn’t care about being in contempt of court. At least get the process started.

Stop communicating with him. Maybe write one more message that he’s taken advantage of you for years and you’re not taking it anymore. And please communicate through the attorney from now on. And that’s it.

And even if he commits suicide it’s not your fault. Just telling you that now. Not at all.

OP here. Thanks for this.
Another commenter mentioned something about me “still hanging on” or something like that. I have zero romantic feelings or hopes with him. I want nothing to do with him. The reason I’ve been way too patient is because of his mental health. And partly because I have been harboring guilt.
I did the right thing for MY mental health and my life, but I do truly feel bad for him and I know he feels like I abandoned him, stopped supporting him, not honoring our vows etc. But again I had to get out.

I was that poster, and everything you posted is exactly what I meant.

You seem like a nice person that really wanted your marriage to work, you still feel badly that it didn't, and you're still hoping your ex gets it together - for his sake, not necessarily yours. But all of that is not allowing you to fully detach and get rid of this liability risk.

It's been two years since you separated. Not only is it time to press the issue on the mortgage, it's time to stop communicating with him at all and truly move on.

[Anonymous]

This one is tricky. It sounds like there’s equity in the property, so if there’s a forced sale hopefully no one should have to bring money to the table. That is, proceeds from the sale should over the entirety of the mortgage balance.

In the case this went to a short sale, you’d be better off if your ex stayed in the house. Otherwise you’d either be forced to bring money to the table or a short sale (where the bank takes a loss) will wreck your credit.

Read your loan docs carefully. Lenders have been verbally lying to their mortgagees in this rate environment about lack of ability to allow assumptions in instances of death or divorce. Not saying yours is lying to you, but confirm everything in the actual loan documents. It might be worth a consult for 1hr with a RE lawyer if you believe the lender is being dishonest about his ability to assume the mortgage.

Ps - your ex DH sounds like a hot mess. I’m shocked he can even feed himself or wipe his own butt.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not sure why everyone is saying to get a real estate attorney. This guy is in breach of the divorce order.

Divorce attorney is the one, presumably, who failed to protect her interests in the first place by not getting her name off the mortgage in the beginning. Also, real estate attorney will be more familiar with real estate sale and terms but also know how to enter sale as part of divorce decree settlement.

Often a divorce attorney doesn’t know squat about the mechanics of court ordered real state sale. You need an attorney who can make sure all aspects of the sale go through.

A real estate attorney generally doesn’t have much litigation experience but I guess if OP finds one who has experience enforcing divorce decrees, sure. But as a lawyer I would seek out the type of lawyer who specializes in the jurisdiction and type of legal instrument, which in this case is divorce.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not sure why everyone is saying to get a real estate attorney. This guy is in breach of the divorce order.

Divorce attorney is the one, presumably, who failed to protect her interests in the first place by not getting her name off the mortgage in the beginning. Also, real estate attorney will be more familiar with real estate sale and terms but also know how to enter sale as part of divorce decree settlement.

Often a divorce attorney doesn’t know squat about the mechanics of court ordered real state sale. You need an attorney who can make sure all aspects of the sale go through.

A real estate attorney generally doesn’t have much litigation experience but I guess if OP finds one who has experience enforcing divorce decrees, sure. But as a lawyer I would seek out the type of lawyer who specializes in the jurisdiction and type of legal instrument, which in this case is divorce.

Lots of real estate attorneys have litigation experience. Real estate deals go bad and end up in court all the time. It doesn't matter whether you in court because of a contract dispute or a failure to comply with a court ordered aspect of the divorce. Most lawyers would know how to get into court on either count. But the real estate attorney is going to know the mechanics of forcing a real estate sale.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not sure why everyone is saying to get a real estate attorney. This guy is in breach of the divorce order.

Divorce attorney is the one, presumably, who failed to protect her interests in the first place by not getting her name off the mortgage in the beginning. Also, real estate attorney will be more familiar with real estate sale and terms but also know how to enter sale as part of divorce decree settlement.

Often a divorce attorney doesn’t know squat about the mechanics of court ordered real state sale. You need an attorney who can make sure all aspects of the sale go through.

A real estate attorney generally doesn’t have much litigation experience but I guess if OP finds one who has experience enforcing divorce decrees, sure. But as a lawyer I would seek out the type of lawyer who specializes in the jurisdiction and type of legal instrument, which in this case is divorce.

Lots of real estate attorneys have litigation experience. Real estate deals go bad and end up in court all the time. It doesn't matter whether you in court because of a contract dispute or a failure to comply with a court ordered aspect of the divorce. Most lawyers would know how to get into court on either count. But the real estate attorney is going to know the mechanics of forcing a real estate sale.

General real estate attorneys don't do a lot of forced sales. When real estate deals go bad, they get handed over to litigators. OP needs someone who specializes in enforcing judgments.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This one is tricky. It sounds like there’s equity in the property, so if there’s a forced sale hopefully no one should have to bring money to the table. That is, proceeds from the sale should over the entirety of the mortgage balance.

In the case this went to a short sale, you’d be better off if your ex stayed in the house. Otherwise you’d either be forced to bring money to the table or a short sale (where the bank takes a loss) will wreck your credit.

Read your loan docs carefully. Lenders have been verbally lying to their mortgagees in this rate environment about lack of ability to allow assumptions in instances of death or divorce. Not saying yours is lying to you, but confirm everything in the actual loan documents. It might be worth a consult for 1hr with a RE lawyer if you believe the lender is being dishonest about his ability to assume the mortgage.

Ps - your ex DH sounds like a hot mess. I’m shocked he can even feed himself or wipe his own butt.

Yikes. Any decent divorce attorney should have spelled out in the divorce decree how any shortfall in the sale of the house would be apportioned to the husband and wife and/or how much of the equity each will take if the sale covers more than the mortgage.

OP, something to think about is that the real estate market is really crappy right now and it is going to get worse, not better. I am seeing big mark downs -- 50-100K - in price and sometimes stuff is still not selling. You think the "value" of the home covers the mortgage, but you won't know until it sells.

[Anonymous]

I recently read my partner's divorce papers and it's crazy how many things his lawyer overlooked or just plain did wrong. Some of the mistakes were in his favor, so that is a relief. But I knew from the few things he'd told me about what he's paying in alimony that his lawyer merely processed the decisions made instead of trying to negotiate for the best deal possible. So, leaving out this language doesn't surprise me a bit.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would file in court with my lawyer tomorrow. It could still take years. Obviously he doesn’t care about being in contempt of court. At least get the process started.

Stop communicating with him. Maybe write one more message that he’s taken advantage of you for years and you’re not taking it anymore. And please communicate through the attorney from now on. And that’s it.

And even if he commits suicide it’s not your fault. Just telling you that now. Not at all.

OP here. Thanks for this.
Another commenter mentioned something about me “still hanging on” or something like that. I have zero romantic feelings or hopes with him. I want nothing to do with him. The reason I’ve been way too patient is because of his mental health. And partly because I have been harboring guilt.
I did the right thing for MY mental health and my life, but I do truly feel bad for him and I know he feels like I abandoned him, stopped supporting him, not honoring our vows etc. But again I had to get out.

I was that poster, and everything you posted is exactly what I meant.

You seem like a nice person that really wanted your marriage to work, you still feel badly that it didn't, and you're still hoping your ex gets it together - for his sake, not necessarily yours. But all of that is not allowing you to fully detach and get rid of this liability risk.

It's been two years since you separated. Not only is it time to press the issue on the mortgage, it's time to stop communicating with him at all and truly move on.

I actually would read her "feeling bad" and her failure to detach and move on a little differently. Sometimes people with addiction engage in "coercive control" which is a form of non-physical relationship abuse. It's tricky because we think of addicts and the mentally ill as people who aren't in control of what they're doing, so on one level it's hard to think of them as abusers. The addict isn't a bad person but his addiction often makes him abusive in order to protect and maintain the addiction or deny that he is mentally ill.

Coercive control is when the abuser reacts in threatening, intimidating, blaming or shaming ways in order to get the victim to behave the way the perpetrator wants.

OP, I was in an engagement that went bad. I, like you, wanted to take my name off a mortgage of a house I owned with my fiance. I enabled him to do that by agreeing to take back a second mortgage on the house, which he would pay back to me over time. Of course, he never paid me back. But, he still wanted to be in touch. If I ever asked him to start paying, he would just get angry at me, and engage in DARVO -- deny, attack, reverse victim and offender. He would say that all I cared about was money, that it was hard for him to pay the mortgage as a single person, etc. That's an example of coercive control. Of course, there was something in my background that caused me to be willing to accept that.

I think something similar is going on with you. It was easier to extend the time for him to sell than to put up with more drama -- phone calls about how to figure out how to sell, anger and tears about making him move out, woe is me tails about how now he will have to pay so much more, and it's all your fault and you just want to pile on and make an unhappy end to the marriage even worse, etc.

You have to bite the bullet. Get an attorney. Let the attorney be the bad guy. I bet you will be surprised that your ex figures out the sale in a way that he doesn't become homeless.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I recently read my partner's divorce papers and it's crazy how many things his lawyer overlooked or just plain did wrong. Some of the mistakes were in his favor, so that is a relief. But I knew from the few things he'd told me about what he's paying in alimony that his lawyer merely processed the decisions made instead of trying to negotiate for the best deal possible. So, leaving out this language doesn't surprise me a bit.

For better or for worse, sometimes divorce lawyers just do what their clients want, which is usually not “extract the best deal possible” especially with kids involved or say a SAHW with no way to support herself right away. It’s also an overall negotiation. Like if you looked at my agreement you might think I got a bad deal but I did it consciously to reduce legal fees and get really important concessions on custody. OTOH OP’s attorney possibly could have done more to make sure an unreliable counterparty actually carried through on the judgment. But OP also did herself no favors by waiving the 6 month deadline. And as a PP pointed out if the agreement does not clearly establish how the home equity and debt is distributed, that is not good at all.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Not sure why everyone is saying to get a real estate attorney. This guy is in breach of the divorce order.

A divorce attorney is for divorce. This is beyond a divorce. This is a property issue. You go to a real estate attorney for this; the divorce is done.

-divorced from an attorney

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not sure why everyone is saying to get a real estate attorney. This guy is in breach of the divorce order.

A divorce attorney is for divorce. This is beyond a divorce. This is a property issue. You go to a real estate attorney for this; the divorce is done.

-divorced from an attorney

This is a divorce issue because it involves enforcing the divorce decree. The divorce is not “done” - quite the opposite! It needs to be enforced It’s possible for OP to find an attorney that specializes in real estate divorce litigation but much more likely to just find a divorce lawyer.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not sure why everyone is saying to get a real estate attorney. This guy is in breach of the divorce order.

Divorce attorney is the one, presumably, who failed to protect her interests in the first place by not getting her name off the mortgage in the beginning. Also, real estate attorney will be more familiar with real estate sale and terms but also know how to enter sale as part of divorce decree settlement.

Often a divorce attorney doesn’t know squat about the mechanics of court ordered real state sale. You need an attorney who can make sure all aspects of the sale go through.

A real estate attorney generally doesn’t have much litigation experience but I guess if OP finds one who has experience enforcing divorce decrees, sure. But as a lawyer I would seek out the type of lawyer who specializes in the jurisdiction and type of legal instrument, which in this case is divorce.

You do realize that only 5% of divorce nationwide end up in litigation, right? Real estate attorneys have litigation experience and often you don’t need a litigation experience with this. You have to submit specific documents to the court and all they have to do is attach a divorce decree you don’t need a divorce attorney— you need a real estate attorney.

Also, you probably don’t realize there are plenty of people that buy homes with people who they are not married to, and when something goes bad, the other person has to be bought out: the marriage is irrelevant. There are disputes like this all the time in real estate.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not sure why everyone is saying to get a real estate attorney. This guy is in breach of the divorce order.

Divorce attorney is the one, presumably, who failed to protect her interests in the first place by not getting her name off the mortgage in the beginning. Also, real estate attorney will be more familiar with real estate sale and terms but also know how to enter sale as part of divorce decree settlement.

Often a divorce attorney doesn’t know squat about the mechanics of court ordered real state sale. You need an attorney who can make sure all aspects of the sale go through.

A real estate attorney generally doesn’t have much litigation experience but I guess if OP finds one who has experience enforcing divorce decrees, sure. But as a lawyer I would seek out the type of lawyer who specializes in the jurisdiction and type of legal instrument, which in this case is divorce.

You do realize that only 5% of divorce nationwide end up in litigation, right? Real estate attorneys have litigation experience and often you don’t need a litigation experience with this. You have to submit specific documents to the court and all they have to do is attach a divorce decree you don’t need a divorce attorney— you need a real estate attorney.

Also, you probably don’t realize there are plenty of people that buy homes with people who they are not married to, and when something goes bad, the other person has to be bought out: the marriage is irrelevant. There are disputes like this all the time in real estate.

Bro. yes a real estate attorney could handle this just fine if there was no dispute and he wasn’t in contempt of a DIVORCE decree. I am a lawyer and there is zero way I would seek out a real estate lawyer for this. The real estate issue here isn’t complex (and in most states wouldn’t even require a lawyer). The complex issue is the need to enforce the divorce decree and get the divorce court to force the sale.