Low effort teens

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was just talking to my sister about this this weekend. She was recalling a conversation she had with my dad in high school where she explained to him that she could put in low/medium effort and do pretty well (A-/B+) or put in extraordinary effort and really excel (A/A+) - but that the first choice seemed to make a lot more sense. To this, my father replied “honey, you’ve figured out the secret to life. I’m so proud.” Thirty years later “slacker” sister is doing just as well as our sibling who put in the extra effort, and arguably, is much happier.

Not going to lie, I’m still pretty inclined to push my kids but there really is a point of diminishing returns. If they’re on track to be healthy, contributing adults I wouldn’t sweat it too much.

The thing is, our children live in a different world. Your sister didn't have to compete with the pool of extremely driven, talented immigrants like our children do. You could pretty much coast to an upper middle class life. You can't count on this anymore. Maybe it will happen, maybe not - but the odds are definitively different from what they were 30 years ago.

Um there is plenty of homegrown talent. Competition is stiffer partly bc thanks to the internet, people have heard of all the really good schools that wouldn’t have geographically been on their radar several decades ago. Can’t believe you’re yelling “IMMIGRANTS!” on a post about kids

I am an immigrant myself, I am not yelling "immigrants". The fact is that there is much more competition globally and that Harvard has more than a quarter of their college filled with international students. I was one of a handful of such students many years ago, now my own kids are facing at least 10 times as many.

And even if increasing competition were merely due to homegrown talent, the points remains that it's a different world today. You can't just phone it in to an upper middle class lifestyle.

Well look around most middle class and upper middle class people went to state schools and even 2nd tier state schools.

Your an immigrant, you haven't figured this out yet?

This is not about brand schools. Sure, you can be rich and successful coming from any school. But increasingly you won't be able to do so without being really ambitious and putting in the work. The kind of work that today's kids trying for top colleges are putting. The low effort jobs won't be enough to allow the children to live the kind of life their parents did.

I a lot of people here still seem to be live that the average person can have a really comfortable life, like they used to, because 30 years ago their cousin blah blah blah... I don't think this is going to be the case.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was just talking to my sister about this this weekend. She was recalling a conversation she had with my dad in high school where she explained to him that she could put in low/medium effort and do pretty well (A-/B+) or put in extraordinary effort and really excel (A/A+) - but that the first choice seemed to make a lot more sense. To this, my father replied “honey, you’ve figured out the secret to life. I’m so proud.” Thirty years later “slacker” sister is doing just as well as our sibling who put in the extra effort, and arguably, is much happier.

Not going to lie, I’m still pretty inclined to push my kids but there really is a point of diminishing returns. If they’re on track to be healthy, contributing adults I wouldn’t sweat it too much.

The thing is, our children live in a different world. Your sister didn't have to compete with the pool of extremely driven, talented immigrants like our children do. You could pretty much coast to an upper middle class life. You can't count on this anymore. Maybe it will happen, maybe not - but the odds are definitively different from what they were 30 years ago.

Um there is plenty of homegrown talent. Competition is stiffer partly bc thanks to the internet, people have heard of all the really good schools that wouldn’t have geographically been on their radar several decades ago. Can’t believe you’re yelling “IMMIGRANTS!” on a post about kids

I am an immigrant myself, I am not yelling "immigrants". The fact is that there is much more competition globally and that Harvard has more than a quarter of their college filled with international students. I was one of a handful of such students many years ago, now my own kids are facing at least 10 times as many.

And even if increasing competition were merely due to homegrown talent, the points remains that it's a different world today. You can't just phone it in to an upper middle class lifestyle.

Well look around most middle class and upper middle class people went to state schools and even 2nd tier state schools.

Your an immigrant, you haven't figured this out yet?

This is not about brand schools. Sure, you can be rich and successful coming from any school. But increasingly you won't be able to do so without being really ambitious and putting in the work. The kind of work that today's kids trying for top colleges are putting. The low effort jobs won't be enough to allow the children to live the kind of life their parents did.

I a lot of people here still seem to be live that the average person can have a really comfortable life, like they used to, because 30 years ago their cousin blah blah blah... I don't think this is going to be the case.

I hate to say it but this is why I am saving a bunch of money so I can give my kids some financial security even if they don't end up super successful

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was just talking to my sister about this this weekend. She was recalling a conversation she had with my dad in high school where she explained to him that she could put in low/medium effort and do pretty well (A-/B+) or put in extraordinary effort and really excel (A/A+) - but that the first choice seemed to make a lot more sense. To this, my father replied “honey, you’ve figured out the secret to life. I’m so proud.” Thirty years later “slacker” sister is doing just as well as our sibling who put in the extra effort, and arguably, is much happier.

Not going to lie, I’m still pretty inclined to push my kids but there really is a point of diminishing returns. If they’re on track to be healthy, contributing adults I wouldn’t sweat it too much.

The thing is, our children live in a different world. Your sister didn't have to compete with the pool of extremely driven, talented immigrants like our children do. You could pretty much coast to an upper middle class life. You can't count on this anymore. Maybe it will happen, maybe not - but the odds are definitively different from what they were 30 years ago.

Um there is plenty of homegrown talent. Competition is stiffer partly bc thanks to the internet, people have heard of all the really good schools that wouldn’t have geographically been on their radar several decades ago. Can’t believe you’re yelling “IMMIGRANTS!” on a post about kids

I am an immigrant myself, I am not yelling "immigrants". The fact is that there is much more competition globally and that Harvard has more than a quarter of their college filled with international students. I was one of a handful of such students many years ago, now my own kids are facing at least 10 times as many.

And even if increasing competition were merely due to homegrown talent, the points remains that it's a different world today. You can't just phone it in to an upper middle class lifestyle.

Well look around most middle class and upper middle class people went to state schools and even 2nd tier state schools.

Your an immigrant, you haven't figured this out yet?

This is not about brand schools. Sure, you can be rich and successful coming from any school. But increasingly you won't be able to do so without being really ambitious and putting in the work. The kind of work that today's kids trying for top colleges are putting. The low effort jobs won't be enough to allow the children to live the kind of life their parents did.

I a lot of people here still seem to be live that the average person can have a really comfortable life, like they used to, because 30 years ago their cousin blah blah blah... I don't think this is going to be the case.

I hate to say it but this is why I am saving a bunch of money so I can give my kids some financial security even if they don't end up super successful

It's a good plan; nothing to apologize for.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My kids are smart and athletic kids. Everything comes to them easily BUT they do not put forth maximum effort, ever. As a result, my dd is a decent runner only, despite having the potential to be a fantastic runner. She shows up to practice, does her thing, but doesn't push herself. She gives it 70%. It's the same thing with school: getting them to take any APs is like pulling teeth, and they so far refused the hard ones, despite doing very well in the APs they do take. They know it is going to affect college, we have pushed, explained and got nowhere. They just don't want to work hard. Do you think this is just personality or that I should push them harder even?

Do you want a relationship with your children when they are adults? If not, keep pushing. They will run away so far from you!
If you do want a relationship back the F off. How do you even know they aren't giving it their all?
Who are you? Why aren't you famous if you were successfully pushed? Of maybe you weren't and blamed your parents?

You are mentally unwell

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kids are smart and athletic kids. Everything comes to them easily BUT they do not put forth maximum effort, ever. As a result, my dd is a decent runner only, despite having the potential to be a fantastic runner. She shows up to practice, does her thing, but doesn't push herself. She gives it 70%. It's the same thing with school: getting them to take any APs is like pulling teeth, and they so far refused the hard ones, despite doing very well in the APs they do take. They know it is going to affect college, we have pushed, explained and got nowhere. They just don't want to work hard. Do you think this is just personality or that I should push them harder even?

this is peak asian posting. you only forgot to complain about their violin playing.

Whatever. I am surrounded by white parents who push like this, and I am an Asian mom who doesn’t push.

It is a bit obnoxious but honestly I prefer when my kid hangs out with the asian kids whose parents push and have higher expectiation. And, in orchestra, lots of different instruments....parents who push just want the best for their kids.

Do they? Or is it their egos are wrapped up in their kids?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kids are smart and athletic kids. Everything comes to them easily BUT they do not put forth maximum effort, ever. As a result, my dd is a decent runner only, despite having the potential to be a fantastic runner. She shows up to practice, does her thing, but doesn't push herself. She gives it 70%. It's the same thing with school: getting them to take any APs is like pulling teeth, and they so far refused the hard ones, despite doing very well in the APs they do take. They know it is going to affect college, we have pushed, explained and got nowhere. They just don't want to work hard. Do you think this is just personality or that I should push them harder even?

Do you want a relationship with your children when they are adults? If not, keep pushing. They will run away so far from you!
If you do want a relationship back the F off. How do you even know they aren't giving it their all?
Who are you? Why aren't you famous if you were successfully pushed? Of maybe you weren't and blamed your parents?

You are mentally unwell

You seem unhinged. Many parents don't push because they are lazy, self-absorbed, checked out or prefer to be friends with the children.

I was listening to some music on YouTube the other day, and there was a comment there along the lines of "I wish my parents forced me to play the piano when I was young". The comment was liked by something like 12,000 people.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was just talking to my sister about this this weekend. She was recalling a conversation she had with my dad in high school where she explained to him that she could put in low/medium effort and do pretty well (A-/B+) or put in extraordinary effort and really excel (A/A+) - but that the first choice seemed to make a lot more sense. To this, my father replied “honey, you’ve figured out the secret to life. I’m so proud.” Thirty years later “slacker” sister is doing just as well as our sibling who put in the extra effort, and arguably, is much happier.

Not going to lie, I’m still pretty inclined to push my kids but there really is a point of diminishing returns. If they’re on track to be healthy, contributing adults I wouldn’t sweat it too much.

The thing is, our children live in a different world. Your sister didn't have to compete with the pool of extremely driven, talented immigrants like our children do. You could pretty much coast to an upper middle class life. You can't count on this anymore. Maybe it will happen, maybe not - but the odds are definitively different from what they were 30 years ago.

Um there is plenty of homegrown talent. Competition is stiffer partly bc thanks to the internet, people have heard of all the really good schools that wouldn’t have geographically been on their radar several decades ago. Can’t believe you’re yelling “IMMIGRANTS!” on a post about kids

I am an immigrant myself, I am not yelling "immigrants". The fact is that there is much more competition globally and that Harvard has more than a quarter of their college filled with international students. I was one of a handful of such students many years ago, now my own kids are facing at least 10 times as many.

And even if increasing competition were merely due to homegrown talent, the points remains that it's a different world today. You can't just phone it in to an upper middle class lifestyle.

Well look around most middle class and upper middle class people went to state schools and even 2nd tier state schools.

Your an immigrant, you haven't figured this out yet?

This is not about brand schools. Sure, you can be rich and successful coming from any school. But increasingly you won't be able to do so without being really ambitious and putting in the work. The kind of work that today's kids trying for top colleges are putting. The low effort jobs won't be enough to allow the children to live the kind of life their parents did.

I a lot of people here still seem to be live that the average person can have a really comfortable life, like they used to, because 30 years ago their cousin blah blah blah... I don't think this is going to be the case.

Well you are wrong.

but you can torture your child and they will have anxiety and depression from your insane parenting.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kids are smart and athletic kids. Everything comes to them easily BUT they do not put forth maximum effort, ever. As a result, my dd is a decent runner only, despite having the potential to be a fantastic runner. She shows up to practice, does her thing, but doesn't push herself. She gives it 70%. It's the same thing with school: getting them to take any APs is like pulling teeth, and they so far refused the hard ones, despite doing very well in the APs they do take. They know it is going to affect college, we have pushed, explained and got nowhere. They just don't want to work hard. Do you think this is just personality or that I should push them harder even?

Do you want a relationship with your children when they are adults? If not, keep pushing. They will run away so far from you!
If you do want a relationship back the F off. How do you even know they aren't giving it their all?
Who are you? Why aren't you famous if you were successfully pushed? Of maybe you weren't and blamed your parents?

You are mentally unwell

You seem unhinged. Many parents don't push because they are lazy, self-absorbed, checked out or prefer to be friends with the children.

I was listening to some music on YouTube the other day, and there was a comment there along the lines of "I wish my parents forced me to play the piano when I was young". The comment was liked by something like 12,000 people.

Do you understand sarcasm. You think every asian kid is on tour somewhere and posting their amazing videos to You Tube because their parents forced them to play an instrument?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was just talking to my sister about this this weekend. She was recalling a conversation she had with my dad in high school where she explained to him that she could put in low/medium effort and do pretty well (A-/B+) or put in extraordinary effort and really excel (A/A+) - but that the first choice seemed to make a lot more sense. To this, my father replied “honey, you’ve figured out the secret to life. I’m so proud.” Thirty years later “slacker” sister is doing just as well as our sibling who put in the extra effort, and arguably, is much happier.

Not going to lie, I’m still pretty inclined to push my kids but there really is a point of diminishing returns. If they’re on track to be healthy, contributing adults I wouldn’t sweat it too much.

The thing is, our children live in a different world. Your sister didn't have to compete with the pool of extremely driven, talented immigrants like our children do. You could pretty much coast to an upper middle class life. You can't count on this anymore. Maybe it will happen, maybe not - but the odds are definitively different from what they were 30 years ago.

Um there is plenty of homegrown talent. Competition is stiffer partly bc thanks to the internet, people have heard of all the really good schools that wouldn’t have geographically been on their radar several decades ago. Can’t believe you’re yelling “IMMIGRANTS!” on a post about kids

I am an immigrant myself, I am not yelling "immigrants". The fact is that there is much more competition globally and that Harvard has more than a quarter of their college filled with international students. I was one of a handful of such students many years ago, now my own kids are facing at least 10 times as many.

And even if increasing competition were merely due to homegrown talent, the points remains that it's a different world today. You can't just phone it in to an upper middle class lifestyle.

Well look around most middle class and upper middle class people went to state schools and even 2nd tier state schools.

Your an immigrant, you haven't figured this out yet?

This is not about brand schools. Sure, you can be rich and successful coming from any school. But increasingly you won't be able to do so without being really ambitious and putting in the work. The kind of work that today's kids trying for top colleges are putting. The low effort jobs won't be enough to allow the children to live the kind of life their parents did.

I a lot of people here still seem to be live that the average person can have a really comfortable life, like they used to, because 30 years ago their cousin blah blah blah... I don't think this is going to be the case.

Well you are wrong.

but you can torture your child and they will have anxiety and depression from your insane parenting.

Wouldn't that make you happy, huh? Wouldn't you love for the hard working kids to be miserable, you, the, non-competitive, easy going person full of kindness?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kids are smart and athletic kids. Everything comes to them easily BUT they do not put forth maximum effort, ever. As a result, my dd is a decent runner only, despite having the potential to be a fantastic runner. She shows up to practice, does her thing, but doesn't push herself. She gives it 70%. It's the same thing with school: getting them to take any APs is like pulling teeth, and they so far refused the hard ones, despite doing very well in the APs they do take. They know it is going to affect college, we have pushed, explained and got nowhere. They just don't want to work hard. Do you think this is just personality or that I should push them harder even?

Do you want a relationship with your children when they are adults? If not, keep pushing. They will run away so far from you!
If you do want a relationship back the F off. How do you even know they aren't giving it their all?
Who are you? Why aren't you famous if you were successfully pushed? Of maybe you weren't and blamed your parents?

You are mentally unwell

You seem unhinged. Many parents don't push because they are lazy, self-absorbed, checked out or prefer to be friends with the children.

I was listening to some music on YouTube the other day, and there was a comment there along the lines of "I wish my parents forced me to play the piano when I was young". The comment was liked by something like 12,000 people.

Do you understand sarcasm. You think every asian kid is on tour somewhere and posting their amazing videos to You Tube because their parents forced them to play an instrument?

Not sure what you are talking about (who is posting the videos?) but I sure met several adults who were upset their parents didn't make them play an instrument as children. They imagine playing to be more fun than it often is, I think, but, regardless: if you are parenting with the goal that, once grown, your children won't have any objections to your pushing and not pushing, you are the biggest fool of all.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was just talking to my sister about this this weekend. She was recalling a conversation she had with my dad in high school where she explained to him that she could put in low/medium effort and do pretty well (A-/B+) or put in extraordinary effort and really excel (A/A+) - but that the first choice seemed to make a lot more sense. To this, my father replied “honey, you’ve figured out the secret to life. I’m so proud.” Thirty years later “slacker” sister is doing just as well as our sibling who put in the extra effort, and arguably, is much happier.

Not going to lie, I’m still pretty inclined to push my kids but there really is a point of diminishing returns. If they’re on track to be healthy, contributing adults I wouldn’t sweat it too much.

The thing is, our children live in a different world. Your sister didn't have to compete with the pool of extremely driven, talented immigrants like our children do. You could pretty much coast to an upper middle class life. You can't count on this anymore. Maybe it will happen, maybe not - but the odds are definitively different from what they were 30 years ago.

Um there is plenty of homegrown talent. Competition is stiffer partly bc thanks to the internet, people have heard of all the really good schools that wouldn’t have geographically been on their radar several decades ago. Can’t believe you’re yelling “IMMIGRANTS!” on a post about kids

I am an immigrant myself, I am not yelling "immigrants". The fact is that there is much more competition globally and that Harvard has more than a quarter of their college filled with international students. I was one of a handful of such students many years ago, now my own kids are facing at least 10 times as many.

And even if increasing competition were merely due to homegrown talent, the points remains that it's a different world today. You can't just phone it in to an upper middle class lifestyle.

Well look around most middle class and upper middle class people went to state schools and even 2nd tier state schools.

Your an immigrant, you haven't figured this out yet?

This is not about brand schools. Sure, you can be rich and successful coming from any school. But increasingly you won't be able to do so without being really ambitious and putting in the work. The kind of work that today's kids trying for top colleges are putting. The low effort jobs won't be enough to allow the children to live the kind of life their parents did.

I a lot of people here still seem to be live that the average person can have a really comfortable life, like they used to, because 30 years ago their cousin blah blah blah... I don't think this is going to be the case.

Well you are wrong.

but you can torture your child and they will have anxiety and depression from your insane parenting.

I’m the pp who said I had a middle child who puts in little to no effort. DH and I are HYP educated and were children of poor Asian immigrants. We have adapted the American mindset and culture. I genuinely just want my kids to be happy and healthy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kids are smart and athletic kids. Everything comes to them easily BUT they do not put forth maximum effort, ever. As a result, my dd is a decent runner only, despite having the potential to be a fantastic runner. She shows up to practice, does her thing, but doesn't push herself. She gives it 70%. It's the same thing with school: getting them to take any APs is like pulling teeth, and they so far refused the hard ones, despite doing very well in the APs they do take. They know it is going to affect college, we have pushed, explained and got nowhere. They just don't want to work hard. Do you think this is just personality or that I should push them harder even?

Do you want a relationship with your children when they are adults? If not, keep pushing. They will run away so far from you!
If you do want a relationship back the F off. How do you even know they aren't giving it their all?
Who are you? Why aren't you famous if you were successfully pushed? Of maybe you weren't and blamed your parents?

You are mentally unwell

You seem unhinged. Many parents don't push because they are lazy, self-absorbed, checked out or prefer to be friends with the children.

I was listening to some music on YouTube the other day, and there was a comment there along the lines of "I wish my parents forced me to play the piano when I was young". The comment was liked by something like 12,000 people.

It is very common for people who cannot articulate their position in a rational way to result to childish name calling.

Op's kids are not failing and yet they want them to work harder. For what? I stand by what I wrotepush too hard and your kids will run away.

And that youtube survey? You can't take that seriously.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was just talking to my sister about this this weekend. She was recalling a conversation she had with my dad in high school where she explained to him that she could put in low/medium effort and do pretty well (A-/B+) or put in extraordinary effort and really excel (A/A+) - but that the first choice seemed to make a lot more sense. To this, my father replied “honey, you’ve figured out the secret to life. I’m so proud.” Thirty years later “slacker” sister is doing just as well as our sibling who put in the extra effort, and arguably, is much happier.

Not going to lie, I’m still pretty inclined to push my kids but there really is a point of diminishing returns. If they’re on track to be healthy, contributing adults I wouldn’t sweat it too much.

The thing is, our children live in a different world. Your sister didn't have to compete with the pool of extremely driven, talented immigrants like our children do. You could pretty much coast to an upper middle class life. You can't count on this anymore. Maybe it will happen, maybe not - but the odds are definitively different from what they were 30 years ago.

Um there is plenty of homegrown talent. Competition is stiffer partly bc thanks to the internet, people have heard of all the really good schools that wouldn’t have geographically been on their radar several decades ago. Can’t believe you’re yelling “IMMIGRANTS!” on a post about kids

I am an immigrant myself, I am not yelling "immigrants". The fact is that there is much more competition globally and that Harvard has more than a quarter of their college filled with international students. I was one of a handful of such students many years ago, now my own kids are facing at least 10 times as many.

And even if increasing competition were merely due to homegrown talent, the points remains that it's a different world today. You can't just phone it in to an upper middle class lifestyle.

Well look around most middle class and upper middle class people went to state schools and even 2nd tier state schools.

Your an immigrant, you haven't figured this out yet?

This is not about brand schools. Sure, you can be rich and successful coming from any school. But increasingly you won't be able to do so without being really ambitious and putting in the work. The kind of work that today's kids trying for top colleges are putting. The low effort jobs won't be enough to allow the children to live the kind of life their parents did.

I a lot of people here still seem to be live that the average person can have a really comfortable life, like they used to, because 30 years ago their cousin blah blah blah... I don't think this is going to be the case.

Well you are wrong.

but you can torture your child and they will have anxiety and depression from your insane parenting.

I’m the pp who said I had a middle child who puts in little to no effort. DH and I are HYP educated and were children of poor Asian immigrants. We have adapted the American mindset and culture. I genuinely just want my kids to be happy and healthy.

'Being happy' is hard to define. What do you mean?

[Anonymous]

wow is this what you call low effort? Takes APs and does well, but just take the extra hard ones? Runs well but not at 100% at all times? My teen is a B/C student at best, is still on a JV sport, doesn't put in any effort beyond the bare minimum thanks to ADHD/LD. your kid sounds fine and normal. stop pushing!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was just talking to my sister about this this weekend. She was recalling a conversation she had with my dad in high school where she explained to him that she could put in low/medium effort and do pretty well (A-/B+) or put in extraordinary effort and really excel (A/A+) - but that the first choice seemed to make a lot more sense. To this, my father replied “honey, you’ve figured out the secret to life. I’m so proud.” Thirty years later “slacker” sister is doing just as well as our sibling who put in the extra effort, and arguably, is much happier.

Not going to lie, I’m still pretty inclined to push my kids but there really is a point of diminishing returns. If they’re on track to be healthy, contributing adults I wouldn’t sweat it too much.

The thing is, our children live in a different world. Your sister didn't have to compete with the pool of extremely driven, talented immigrants like our children do. You could pretty much coast to an upper middle class life. You can't count on this anymore. Maybe it will happen, maybe not - but the odds are definitively different from what they were 30 years ago.

Um there is plenty of homegrown talent. Competition is stiffer partly bc thanks to the internet, people have heard of all the really good schools that wouldn’t have geographically been on their radar several decades ago. Can’t believe you’re yelling “IMMIGRANTS!” on a post about kids

I am an immigrant myself, I am not yelling "immigrants". The fact is that there is much more competition globally and that Harvard has more than a quarter of their college filled with international students. I was one of a handful of such students many years ago, now my own kids are facing at least 10 times as many.

And even if increasing competition were merely due to homegrown talent, the points remains that it's a different world today. You can't just phone it in to an upper middle class lifestyle.

Well look around most middle class and upper middle class people went to state schools and even 2nd tier state schools.

Your an immigrant, you haven't figured this out yet?

This is not about brand schools. Sure, you can be rich and successful coming from any school. But increasingly you won't be able to do so without being really ambitious and putting in the work. The kind of work that today's kids trying for top colleges are putting. The low effort jobs won't be enough to allow the children to live the kind of life their parents did.

I a lot of people here still seem to be live that the average person can have a really comfortable life, like they used to, because 30 years ago their cousin blah blah blah... I don't think this is going to be the case.

Well you are wrong.

but you can torture your child and they will have anxiety and depression from your insane parenting.

I’m the pp who said I had a middle child who puts in little to no effort. DH and I are HYP educated and were children of poor Asian immigrants. We have adapted the American mindset and culture. I genuinely just want my kids to be happy and healthy.

You can't parent your children to health and happiness. That's even less under your control than their professional success.