Low effort teens

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I was just talking to my sister about this this weekend. She was recalling a conversation she had with my dad in high school where she explained to him that she could put in low/medium effort and do pretty well (A-/B+) or put in extraordinary effort and really excel (A/A+) - but that the first choice seemed to make a lot more sense. To this, my father replied “honey, you’ve figured out the secret to life. I’m so proud.” Thirty years later “slacker” sister is doing just as well as our sibling who put in the extra effort, and arguably, is much happier.

Not going to lie, I’m still pretty inclined to push my kids but there really is a point of diminishing returns. If they’re on track to be healthy, contributing adults I wouldn’t sweat it too much.

The thing is, our children live in a different world. Your sister didn't have to compete with the pool of extremely driven, talented immigrants like our children do. You could pretty much coast to an upper middle class life. You can't count on this anymore. Maybe it will happen, maybe not - but the odds are definitively different from what they were 30 years ago.

Um there is plenty of homegrown talent. Competition is stiffer partly bc thanks to the internet, people have heard of all the really good schools that wouldn’t have geographically been on their radar several decades ago. Can’t believe you’re yelling “IMMIGRANTS!” on a post about kids

I am an immigrant myself, I am not yelling "immigrants". The fact is that there is much more competition globally and that Harvard has more than a quarter of their college filled with international students. I was one of a handful of such students many years ago, now my own kids are facing at least 10 times as many.

And even if increasing competition were merely due to homegrown talent, the points remains that it's a different world today. You can't just phone it in to an upper middle class lifestyle.

Well look around most middle class and upper middle class people went to state schools and even 2nd tier state schools.

Your an immigrant, you haven't figured this out yet?

This is not about brand schools. Sure, you can be rich and successful coming from any school. But increasingly you won't be able to do so without being really ambitious and putting in the work. The kind of work that today's kids trying for top colleges are putting. The low effort jobs won't be enough to allow the children to live the kind of life their parents did.

I a lot of people here still seem to be live that the average person can have a really comfortable life, like they used to, because 30 years ago their cousin blah blah blah... I don't think this is going to be the case.

Well you are wrong.

but you can torture your child and they will have anxiety and depression from your insane parenting.

Wouldn't that make you happy, huh? Wouldn't you love for the hard working kids to be miserable, you, the, non-competitive, easy going person full of kindness?

Dp This is prime example of distorted thinking. Why would pp or anyone want 'hard working kids' to be miserable? Why is the choice is only between 'hard working' and doing nothing? There are more examples of kids who are overworked and stressed due to parental pressure. But that does not mean anyone wishes ill will on these kids. We feel for them!

I remember reading a book that dealt with this topic and it was very interesting: https://www.amazon.com/Overachievers-Secret-Lives-Driven-Kids/dp/140130902X

A lot of people are envious and insecure of their own parenting choices. They are literally hoping that children who are pushed by their parents (as they see it - it might not even be true, as they don't really know much other kids are studying or what their parents are telling them) fail in school and careers, and/or hate their parents as adults. PP is literally hoping that my child (as they see them) will suffer from anxiety and depression because of my "insane parenting". It will validate their parenting philosophy and show that their child is the one ahead, after all.

These are the same people who preach laid back parenting based on kindness and understanding. In reality, they just want (what appear to be accomplished) kids to fail. "See, I told you, my B student is now a CEO while your valedictorian is taking medication."

Nobody hopes you kids have anxiety and depression people are literally trying to help you not push a kid so hard he has anxiety and depression. They are also explaining to you that your hard hitter and your laid back child will essentially end up with the same amount of money in the end.

You actually want to be able to parent in a way that is toxic for this specific child and your justification is that there are people in the world pushing you to be a better parent so their kid will beat your kid... do you know how insane that sounds.

My child is not in competition with your child in any way, shape or form.

You don't know my child, you have no clue how I am parenting them, and you have no clue how they are supposed to be parented. Yet here you are "helping me not have a depressed child". You just said that "I want to be able to parent in a way that is toxic for my specific child"

What do you know about me and my child? What kind of nasty idiot are you?

Your responses are more and more unhinged every single time you post.

You really need a family therapist to help you with this. It’s way beyond something that can be explained on a form like this.

Good luck, you need it.

I am a therapist, idiot. See you in the office!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As a parent of a child who is an extremely hard worker and a kid who is not, I do not think any amount of pushing will work. The kid has to want to do it.

I have seen kids in college fail without mommy. I would rather my kid fail now than as a college student.

why? how is it better to fail in HS?

Pp here. DH and I are type A high achievers. Our oldest child is just like us but better. Our middle child is naturally gifted and puts little effort like OP’s kids. He isn’t literally failing but he will get a B because he didn’t study or has missing assignments. I want him to figure this out by himself while he is in middle school.

And what if he doesn't? What if he just keeps underperforming?

I lose sleep because the kid stresses me out. Getting him to get to middle school on time is even a struggle. I accept the kid he is. I’m not going to be able to push or nag him into Harvard. I have accepted that he may go to Penn State or BU or Rutgers or some good weather school he gets into. He is very social and popular so I hope he will do ok.

You are a mess.. he might "have to go to Penn state or BU or Rutgers" ... OMG.

I am not a mess. My very smart and talented kid puts in little to no effort. My older child takes all AP classes with straight As with zero effort from the parents. It is hard to watch one kid try so hard and one kid do nothing.

What is his talent? And what’s wrong with accepting he’s a B student?

If my youngest gets all A/Bs when she’s in high school in her regular classes I will be thrilled. She’s on the chill track not the fast track. We saved enough for college and I’ll be thrilled if she finds something she loves to do.

Not every kid is an academic super star.

If your kid goes to public school that is a special magnet like TJ, getting all As doesn’t take an academic super star. It just takes basic preparation before exams, being reasonably organized, and completing assignments accurately and on time. Most teens should be capable of this AND be mentally heathy. It isn’t one or the other. B students that aren’t studying and don’t turn in work are just lazy.

[Anonymous]

As long as they are good-looking, socially skilled, and have wealthier parents, then i think it is fine to put forth lower effort.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I was just talking to my sister about this this weekend. She was recalling a conversation she had with my dad in high school where she explained to him that she could put in low/medium effort and do pretty well (A-/B+) or put in extraordinary effort and really excel (A/A+) - but that the first choice seemed to make a lot more sense. To this, my father replied “honey, you’ve figured out the secret to life. I’m so proud.” Thirty years later “slacker” sister is doing just as well as our sibling who put in the extra effort, and arguably, is much happier.

Not going to lie, I’m still pretty inclined to push my kids but there really is a point of diminishing returns. If they’re on track to be healthy, contributing adults I wouldn’t sweat it too much.

The thing is, our children live in a different world. Your sister didn't have to compete with the pool of extremely driven, talented immigrants like our children do. You could pretty much coast to an upper middle class life. You can't count on this anymore. Maybe it will happen, maybe not - but the odds are definitively different from what they were 30 years ago.

Um there is plenty of homegrown talent. Competition is stiffer partly bc thanks to the internet, people have heard of all the really good schools that wouldn’t have geographically been on their radar several decades ago. Can’t believe you’re yelling “IMMIGRANTS!” on a post about kids

I am an immigrant myself, I am not yelling "immigrants". The fact is that there is much more competition globally and that Harvard has more than a quarter of their college filled with international students. I was one of a handful of such students many years ago, now my own kids are facing at least 10 times as many.

And even if increasing competition were merely due to homegrown talent, the points remains that it's a different world today. You can't just phone it in to an upper middle class lifestyle.

Well look around most middle class and upper middle class people went to state schools and even 2nd tier state schools.

Your an immigrant, you haven't figured this out yet?

This is not about brand schools. Sure, you can be rich and successful coming from any school. But increasingly you won't be able to do so without being really ambitious and putting in the work. The kind of work that today's kids trying for top colleges are putting. The low effort jobs won't be enough to allow the children to live the kind of life their parents did.

I a lot of people here still seem to be live that the average person can have a really comfortable life, like they used to, because 30 years ago their cousin blah blah blah... I don't think this is going to be the case.

Well you are wrong.

but you can torture your child and they will have anxiety and depression from your insane parenting.

Wouldn't that make you happy, huh? Wouldn't you love for the hard working kids to be miserable, you, the, non-competitive, easy going person full of kindness?

Dp This is prime example of distorted thinking. Why would pp or anyone want 'hard working kids' to be miserable? Why is the choice is only between 'hard working' and doing nothing? There are more examples of kids who are overworked and stressed due to parental pressure. But that does not mean anyone wishes ill will on these kids. We feel for them!

I remember reading a book that dealt with this topic and it was very interesting: https://www.amazon.com/Overachievers-Secret-Lives-Driven-Kids/dp/140130902X

A lot of people are envious and insecure of their own parenting choices. They are literally hoping that children who are pushed by their parents (as they see it - it might not even be true, as they don't really know much other kids are studying or what their parents are telling them) fail in school and careers, and/or hate their parents as adults. PP is literally hoping that my child (as they see them) will suffer from anxiety and depression because of my "insane parenting". It will validate their parenting philosophy and show that their child is the one ahead, after all.

These are the same people who preach laid back parenting based on kindness and understanding. In reality, they just want (what appear to be accomplished) kids to fail. "See, I told you, my B student is now a CEO while your valedictorian is taking medication."

You can say the same for 'hard working kids' parents to wish failure on those kids who aren't pushed by their parents to fail. See I told you have to push your kids! Billy is working at Wendy's because his parents didn't force him to get all As! So meanness goes BOTH ways!

Honestly, I've never seen this. But I've seen a lot of "nice" people wishing mental illness on academically accomplished teens.

I admire those kids. The ones who are self motivated and love what they’re doing.

I feel bad for the kids who are doing well but not good enough for the crazy parent. The parent who incorrectly thinks that their child isn’t putting all their effort into it because they get Bs or don’t finish first in a race.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As a parent of a child who is an extremely hard worker and a kid who is not, I do not think any amount of pushing will work. The kid has to want to do it.

I have seen kids in college fail without mommy. I would rather my kid fail now than as a college student.

why? how is it better to fail in HS?

Pp here. DH and I are type A high achievers. Our oldest child is just like us but better. Our middle child is naturally gifted and puts little effort like OP’s kids. He isn’t literally failing but he will get a B because he didn’t study or has missing assignments. I want him to figure this out by himself while he is in middle school.

And what if he doesn't? What if he just keeps underperforming?

I lose sleep because the kid stresses me out. Getting him to get to middle school on time is even a struggle. I accept the kid he is. I’m not going to be able to push or nag him into Harvard. I have accepted that he may go to Penn State or BU or Rutgers or some good weather school he gets into. He is very social and popular so I hope he will do ok.

You are a mess.. he might "have to go to Penn state or BU or Rutgers" ... OMG.

I am not a mess. My very smart and talented kid puts in little to no effort. My older child takes all AP classes with straight As with zero effort from the parents. It is hard to watch one kid try so hard and one kid do nothing.

What is his talent? And what’s wrong with accepting he’s a B student?

If my youngest gets all A/Bs when she’s in high school in her regular classes I will be thrilled. She’s on the chill track not the fast track. We saved enough for college and I’ll be thrilled if she finds something she loves to do.

Not every kid is an academic super star.

If your kid goes to public school that is a special magnet like TJ, getting all As doesn’t take an academic super star. It just takes basic preparation before exams, being reasonably organized, and completing assignments accurately and on time. Most teens should be capable of this AND be mentally heathy. It isn’t one or the other. B students that aren’t studying and don’t turn in work are just lazy.

There are plenty of students who prepare, are organized, study and turn in all assignments on time who get Bs. Students can have weaknesses. Maybe their writing is only worthy of a B. Maybe they just couldn’t comprehend something in math no matter how hard they tried. Maybe their mother pushed them into an AP class that they weren’t qualified for.

These aren’t computers we’re talking about. They’re kids who are still learning.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As a parent of a child who is an extremely hard worker and a kid who is not, I do not think any amount of pushing will work. The kid has to want to do it.

I have seen kids in college fail without mommy. I would rather my kid fail now than as a college student.

why? how is it better to fail in HS?

Pp here. DH and I are type A high achievers. Our oldest child is just like us but better. Our middle child is naturally gifted and puts little effort like OP’s kids. He isn’t literally failing but he will get a B because he didn’t study or has missing assignments. I want him to figure this out by himself while he is in middle school.

And what if he doesn't? What if he just keeps underperforming?

I lose sleep because the kid stresses me out. Getting him to get to middle school on time is even a struggle. I accept the kid he is. I’m not going to be able to push or nag him into Harvard. I have accepted that he may go to Penn State or BU or Rutgers or some good weather school he gets into. He is very social and popular so I hope he will do ok.

You are a mess.. he might "have to go to Penn state or BU or Rutgers" ... OMG.

I am not a mess. My very smart and talented kid puts in little to no effort. My older child takes all AP classes with straight As with zero effort from the parents. It is hard to watch one kid try so hard and one kid do nothing.

What is his talent? And what’s wrong with accepting he’s a B student?

If my youngest gets all A/Bs when she’s in high school in her regular classes I will be thrilled. She’s on the chill track not the fast track. We saved enough for college and I’ll be thrilled if she finds something she loves to do.

Not every kid is an academic super star.

If your kid goes to public school that is a special magnet like TJ, getting all As doesn’t take an academic super star. It just takes basic preparation before exams, being reasonably organized, and completing assignments accurately and on time. Most teens should be capable of this AND be mentally heathy. It isn’t one or the other. B students that aren’t studying and don’t turn in work are just lazy.

There are plenty of students who prepare, are organized, study and turn in all assignments on time who get Bs. Students can have weaknesses. Maybe their writing is only worthy of a B. Maybe they just couldn’t comprehend something in math no matter how hard they tried. Maybe their mother pushed them into an AP class that they weren’t qualified for.

These aren’t computers we’re talking about. They’re kids who are still learning.

But that isn’t what OP is complaining about. There are also kids that don’t study and don’t turn in assignments on time and get Bs- and that is called lazy

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was just talking to my sister about this this weekend. She was recalling a conversation she had with my dad in high school where she explained to him that she could put in low/medium effort and do pretty well (A-/B+) or put in extraordinary effort and really excel (A/A+) - but that the first choice seemed to make a lot more sense. To this, my father replied “honey, you’ve figured out the secret to life. I’m so proud.” Thirty years later “slacker” sister is doing just as well as our sibling who put in the extra effort, and arguably, is much happier.

Not going to lie, I’m still pretty inclined to push my kids but there really is a point of diminishing returns. If they’re on track to be healthy, contributing adults I wouldn’t sweat it too much.

The thing is, our children live in a different world. Your sister didn't have to compete with the pool of extremely driven, talented immigrants like our children do. You could pretty much coast to an upper middle class life. You can't count on this anymore. Maybe it will happen, maybe not - but the odds are definitively different from what they were 30 years ago.

Um there is plenty of homegrown talent. Competition is stiffer partly bc thanks to the internet, people have heard of all the really good schools that wouldn’t have geographically been on their radar several decades ago. Can’t believe you’re yelling “IMMIGRANTS!” on a post about kids

I am an immigrant myself, I am not yelling "immigrants". The fact is that there is much more competition globally and that Harvard has more than a quarter of their college filled with international students. I was one of a handful of such students many years ago, now my own kids are facing at least 10 times as many.

And even if increasing competition were merely due to homegrown talent, the points remains that it's a different world today. You can't just phone it in to an upper middle class lifestyle.

Well look around most middle class and upper middle class people went to state schools and even 2nd tier state schools.

Your an immigrant, you haven't figured this out yet?

This is not about brand schools. Sure, you can be rich and successful coming from any school. But increasingly you won't be able to do so without being really ambitious and putting in the work. The kind of work that today's kids trying for top colleges are putting. The low effort jobs won't be enough to allow the children to live the kind of life their parents did.

I a lot of people here still seem to be live that the average person can have a really comfortable life, like they used to, because 30 years ago their cousin blah blah blah... I don't think this is going to be the case.

Well you are wrong.

but you can torture your child and they will have anxiety and depression from your insane parenting.

Wouldn't that make you happy, huh? Wouldn't you love for the hard working kids to be miserable, you, the, non-competitive, easy going person full of kindness?

Dp This is prime example of distorted thinking. Why would pp or anyone want 'hard working kids' to be miserable? Why is the choice is only between 'hard working' and doing nothing? There are more examples of kids who are overworked and stressed due to parental pressure. But that does not mean anyone wishes ill will on these kids. We feel for them!

I remember reading a book that dealt with this topic and it was very interesting: https://www.amazon.com/Overachievers-Secret-Lives-Driven-Kids/dp/140130902X

A lot of people are envious and insecure of their own parenting choices. They are literally hoping that children who are pushed by their parents (as they see it - it might not even be true, as they don't really know much other kids are studying or what their parents are telling them) fail in school and careers, and/or hate their parents as adults. PP is literally hoping that my child (as they see them) will suffer from anxiety and depression because of my "insane parenting". It will validate their parenting philosophy and show that their child is the one ahead, after all.

These are the same people who preach laid back parenting based on kindness and understanding. In reality, they just want (what appear to be accomplished) kids to fail. "See, I told you, my B student is now a CEO while your valedictorian is taking medication."

Nobody hopes you kids have anxiety and depression people are literally trying to help you not push a kid so hard he has anxiety and depression. They are also explaining to you that your hard hitter and your laid back child will essentially end up with the same amount of money in the end.

You actually want to be able to parent in a way that is toxic for this specific child and your justification is that there are people in the world pushing you to be a better parent so their kid will beat your kid... do you know how insane that sounds.

My child is not in competition with your child in any way, shape or form.

You don't know my child, you have no clue how I am parenting them, and you have no clue how they are supposed to be parented. Yet here you are "helping me not have a depressed child". You just said that "I want to be able to parent in a way that is toxic for my specific child"

What do you know about me and my child? What kind of nasty idiot are you?

Your responses are more and more unhinged every single time you post.

You really need a family therapist to help you with this. It’s way beyond something that can be explained on a form like this.

Good luck, you need it.

I am a therapist, idiot. See you in the office!

That explains a lot most therapist go into therapy to try to figure themselves out.

You should talk to your mentor because you’re a mess.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was just talking to my sister about this this weekend. She was recalling a conversation she had with my dad in high school where she explained to him that she could put in low/medium effort and do pretty well (A-/B+) or put in extraordinary effort and really excel (A/A+) - but that the first choice seemed to make a lot more sense. To this, my father replied “honey, you’ve figured out the secret to life. I’m so proud.” Thirty years later “slacker” sister is doing just as well as our sibling who put in the extra effort, and arguably, is much happier.

Not going to lie, I’m still pretty inclined to push my kids but there really is a point of diminishing returns. If they’re on track to be healthy, contributing adults I wouldn’t sweat it too much.

The thing is, our children live in a different world. Your sister didn't have to compete with the pool of extremely driven, talented immigrants like our children do. You could pretty much coast to an upper middle class life. You can't count on this anymore. Maybe it will happen, maybe not - but the odds are definitively different from what they were 30 years ago.

Um there is plenty of homegrown talent. Competition is stiffer partly bc thanks to the internet, people have heard of all the really good schools that wouldn’t have geographically been on their radar several decades ago. Can’t believe you’re yelling “IMMIGRANTS!” on a post about kids

I am an immigrant myself, I am not yelling "immigrants". The fact is that there is much more competition globally and that Harvard has more than a quarter of their college filled with international students. I was one of a handful of such students many years ago, now my own kids are facing at least 10 times as many.

And even if increasing competition were merely due to homegrown talent, the points remains that it's a different world today. You can't just phone it in to an upper middle class lifestyle.

Well look around most middle class and upper middle class people went to state schools and even 2nd tier state schools.

Your an immigrant, you haven't figured this out yet?

This is not about brand schools. Sure, you can be rich and successful coming from any school. But increasingly you won't be able to do so without being really ambitious and putting in the work. The kind of work that today's kids trying for top colleges are putting. The low effort jobs won't be enough to allow the children to live the kind of life their parents did.

I a lot of people here still seem to be live that the average person can have a really comfortable life, like they used to, because 30 years ago their cousin blah blah blah... I don't think this is going to be the case.

Well you are wrong.

but you can torture your child and they will have anxiety and depression from your insane parenting.

Wouldn't that make you happy, huh? Wouldn't you love for the hard working kids to be miserable, you, the, non-competitive, easy going person full of kindness?

Dp This is prime example of distorted thinking. Why would pp or anyone want 'hard working kids' to be miserable? Why is the choice is only between 'hard working' and doing nothing? There are more examples of kids who are overworked and stressed due to parental pressure. But that does not mean anyone wishes ill will on these kids. We feel for them!

I remember reading a book that dealt with this topic and it was very interesting: https://www.amazon.com/Overachievers-Secret-Lives-Driven-Kids/dp/140130902X

A lot of people are envious and insecure of their own parenting choices. They are literally hoping that children who are pushed by their parents (as they see it - it might not even be true, as they don't really know much other kids are studying or what their parents are telling them) fail in school and careers, and/or hate their parents as adults. PP is literally hoping that my child (as they see them) will suffer from anxiety and depression because of my "insane parenting". It will validate their parenting philosophy and show that their child is the one ahead, after all.

These are the same people who preach laid back parenting based on kindness and understanding. In reality, they just want (what appear to be accomplished) kids to fail. "See, I told you, my B student is now a CEO while your valedictorian is taking medication."

Nobody hopes you kids have anxiety and depression people are literally trying to help you not push a kid so hard he has anxiety and depression. They are also explaining to you that your hard hitter and your laid back child will essentially end up with the same amount of money in the end.

You actually want to be able to parent in a way that is toxic for this specific child and your justification is that there are people in the world pushing you to be a better parent so their kid will beat your kid... do you know how insane that sounds.

My child is not in competition with your child in any way, shape or form.

You don't know my child, you have no clue how I am parenting them, and you have no clue how they are supposed to be parented. Yet here you are "helping me not have a depressed child". You just said that "I want to be able to parent in a way that is toxic for my specific child"

What do you know about me and my child? What kind of nasty idiot are you?

Your responses are more and more unhinged every single time you post.

You really need a family therapist to help you with this. It’s way beyond something that can be explained on a form like this.

Good luck, you need it.

I am a therapist, idiot. See you in the office!

DP. I have a hard time imagining a therapist calling someone a "nasty idiot" in an online forum just because someone disagrees with them. Take a chill pill.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My kids are smart and athletic kids. Everything comes to them easily BUT they do not put forth maximum effort, ever. As a result, my dd is a decent runner only, despite having the potential to be a fantastic runner. She shows up to practice, does her thing, but doesn't push herself. She gives it 70%. It's the same thing with school: getting them to take any APs is like pulling teeth, and they so far refused the hard ones, despite doing very well in the APs they do take. They know it is going to affect college, we have pushed, explained and got nowhere. They just don't want to work hard. Do you think this is just personality or that I should push them harder even?

Your children are not your property.

They don't have to think like you do. They don't have to be who YOU want them to be. Their journey is their own. They are doing nothing wrong.

You, on the other hand.... Well you'd be the bad guy character in any movie about teens.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As a parent of a child who is an extremely hard worker and a kid who is not, I do not think any amount of pushing will work. The kid has to want to do it.

I have seen kids in college fail without mommy. I would rather my kid fail now than as a college student.

why? how is it better to fail in HS?

Pp here. DH and I are type A high achievers. Our oldest child is just like us but better. Our middle child is naturally gifted and puts little effort like OP’s kids. He isn’t literally failing but he will get a B because he didn’t study or has missing assignments. I want him to figure this out by himself while he is in middle school.

And what if he doesn't? What if he just keeps underperforming?

I lose sleep because the kid stresses me out. Getting him to get to middle school on time is even a struggle. I accept the kid he is. I’m not going to be able to push or nag him into Harvard. I have accepted that he may go to Penn State or BU or Rutgers or some good weather school he gets into. He is very social and popular so I hope he will do ok.

You are a mess.. he might "have to go to Penn state or BU or Rutgers" ... OMG.

I am not a mess. My very smart and talented kid puts in little to no effort. My older child takes all AP classes with straight As with zero effort from the parents. It is hard to watch one kid try so hard and one kid do nothing.

What is his talent? And what’s wrong with accepting he’s a B student?

If my youngest gets all A/Bs when she’s in high school in her regular classes I will be thrilled. She’s on the chill track not the fast track. We saved enough for college and I’ll be thrilled if she finds something she loves to do.

Not every kid is an academic super star.

If your kid goes to public school that is a special magnet like TJ, getting all As doesn’t take an academic super star. It just takes basic preparation before exams, being reasonably organized, and completing assignments accurately and on time. Most teens should be capable of this AND be mentally heathy. It isn’t one or the other. B students that aren’t studying and don’t turn in work are just lazy.

There are plenty of students who prepare, are organized, study and turn in all assignments on time who get Bs. Students can have weaknesses. Maybe their writing is only worthy of a B. Maybe they just couldn’t comprehend something in math no matter how hard they tried. Maybe their mother pushed them into an AP class that they weren’t qualified for.

These aren’t computers we’re talking about. They’re kids who are still learning.

But that isn’t what OP is complaining about. There are also kids that don’t study and don’t turn in assignments on time and get Bs- and that is called lazy

Some might not put in the effort but a lot of students are B students and for some reason that upsets or embarrasses the parent. So they make excuses. Can you imagine calculating the percentage of effort you think your child put in to her running? That’s disturbing.

[Anonymous]

I mean this issue you have is as old as time. Never underestimate the power of desire is what you want them to understand. How to make someone want something? You really can't unless you know how to manipulate them but for this, is it really worth it to be the best runner or best student if they are just fine and still a kid?

And even if you can, can you make it last? It's why we all do different things.

[Anonymous]

Here's a little secret -

I am Asian and grew up with the kind of parents that slapped me silly unless I got straight As and did everything par excellence. As soon as I was out of the house, everything went downhill from there.

There is NOTHING and I mean NOTHING that can replace self initiation. You just have to want that for yourself. The Asian families you see whose kids are so top of the game? It's a cultural thing. It's not forced, it cannot be forced and if it is, it won't last.

It's the reason why Americans pretty much suck at everything and still come out ahead. Because American culture stresses independent thought and actions. You have to want it for yourself, no matter how hard, how painful, how much sacrifice - most do not. The ones who do will succeed beyond wildest dreams. This is something that cannot be taught but is somewhat cultural to a degree. In many parts of the world, there is an appreciation of excellence that you don't find in this country because it is so wealthy and easy to find opportunities. However, when it comes down to kids and how they do during the teens years - it's still up to them.

Another example is that while all my parents friends forced their kids to grow up with the language, my parents did not care. However, as I wanted to be fluent in my native language, even to this day, I go out of my way to speak the language on my own. It's nothing they taught me but it's something I made sure I knew how to do by self study.

Let your kids be OP. One day they may learn for themselves they want more but until that day comes, you have to let them be as long as they are doing fine. There really is nothing wrong with getting by and being happy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Here's a little secret -

I am Asian and grew up with the kind of parents that slapped me silly unless I got straight As and did everything par excellence. As soon as I was out of the house, everything went downhill from there.

There is NOTHING and I mean NOTHING that can replace self initiation. You just have to want that for yourself. The Asian families you see whose kids are so top of the game? It's a cultural thing. It's not forced, it cannot be forced and if it is, it won't last.

It's the reason why Americans pretty much suck at everything and still come out ahead. Because American culture stresses independent thought and actions. You have to want it for yourself, no matter how hard, how painful, how much sacrifice - most do not. The ones who do will succeed beyond wildest dreams. This is something that cannot be taught but is somewhat cultural to a degree. In many parts of the world, there is an appreciation of excellence that you don't find in this country because it is so wealthy and easy to find opportunities. However, when it comes down to kids and how they do during the teens years - it's still up to them.

Another example is that while all my parents friends forced their kids to grow up with the language, my parents did not care. However, as I wanted to be fluent in my native language, even to this day, I go out of my way to speak the language on my own. It's nothing they taught me but it's something I made sure I knew how to do by self study.

Let your kids be OP. One day they may learn for themselves they want more but until that day comes, you have to let them be as long as they are doing fine. There really is nothing wrong with getting by and being happy.

It's very unclear what the reason for that is and whether it will continue.

[Anonymous]

Some kids just aren't competitive by nature. As long as they don't have aspirations to a college that's really hard to get into, this might not be so bad. People like this tend to be more content with life and are good team players so people usually like working with them.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I was just talking to my sister about this this weekend. She was recalling a conversation she had with my dad in high school where she explained to him that she could put in low/medium effort and do pretty well (A-/B+) or put in extraordinary effort and really excel (A/A+) - but that the first choice seemed to make a lot more sense. To this, my father replied “honey, you’ve figured out the secret to life. I’m so proud.” Thirty years later “slacker” sister is doing just as well as our sibling who put in the extra effort, and arguably, is much happier.

Not going to lie, I’m still pretty inclined to push my kids but there really is a point of diminishing returns. If they’re on track to be healthy, contributing adults I wouldn’t sweat it too much.

The thing is, our children live in a different world. Your sister didn't have to compete with the pool of extremely driven, talented immigrants like our children do. You could pretty much coast to an upper middle class life. You can't count on this anymore. Maybe it will happen, maybe not - but the odds are definitively different from what they were 30 years ago.

Um there is plenty of homegrown talent. Competition is stiffer partly bc thanks to the internet, people have heard of all the really good schools that wouldn’t have geographically been on their radar several decades ago. Can’t believe you’re yelling “IMMIGRANTS!” on a post about kids

I am an immigrant myself, I am not yelling "immigrants". The fact is that there is much more competition globally and that Harvard has more than a quarter of their college filled with international students. I was one of a handful of such students many years ago, now my own kids are facing at least 10 times as many.

And even if increasing competition were merely due to homegrown talent, the points remains that it's a different world today. You can't just phone it in to an upper middle class lifestyle.

Well look around most middle class and upper middle class people went to state schools and even 2nd tier state schools.

Your an immigrant, you haven't figured this out yet?

This is not about brand schools. Sure, you can be rich and successful coming from any school. But increasingly you won't be able to do so without being really ambitious and putting in the work. The kind of work that today's kids trying for top colleges are putting. The low effort jobs won't be enough to allow the children to live the kind of life their parents did.

I a lot of people here still seem to be live that the average person can have a really comfortable life, like they used to, because 30 years ago their cousin blah blah blah... I don't think this is going to be the case.

Well you are wrong.

but you can torture your child and they will have anxiety and depression from your insane parenting.

Wouldn't that make you happy, huh? Wouldn't you love for the hard working kids to be miserable, you, the, non-competitive, easy going person full of kindness?

Dp This is prime example of distorted thinking. Why would pp or anyone want 'hard working kids' to be miserable? Why is the choice is only between 'hard working' and doing nothing? There are more examples of kids who are overworked and stressed due to parental pressure. But that does not mean anyone wishes ill will on these kids. We feel for them!

I remember reading a book that dealt with this topic and it was very interesting: https://www.amazon.com/Overachievers-Secret-Lives-Driven-Kids/dp/140130902X

A lot of people are envious and insecure of their own parenting choices. They are literally hoping that children who are pushed by their parents (as they see it - it might not even be true, as they don't really know much other kids are studying or what their parents are telling them) fail in school and careers, and/or hate their parents as adults. PP is literally hoping that my child (as they see them) will suffer from anxiety and depression because of my "insane parenting". It will validate their parenting philosophy and show that their child is the one ahead, after all.

These are the same people who preach laid back parenting based on kindness and understanding. In reality, they just want (what appear to be accomplished) kids to fail. "See, I told you, my B student is now a CEO while your valedictorian is taking medication."

You can say the same for 'hard working kids' parents to wish failure on those kids who aren't pushed by their parents to fail. See I told you have to push your kids! Billy is working at Wendy's because his parents didn't force him to get all As! So meanness goes BOTH ways!

Honestly, I've never seen this. But I've seen a lot of "nice" people wishing mental illness on academically accomplished teens.

Perdicting mental illness or anxiety is not the same as wishing.