Tired of “sophisticated” friends of my 4th grade DD

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Stay strong OP! I have a fourth grader too and Sephora, TikTok, etc. are definitely a thing. It seems to be kids whose parents are desperate for their kid to fit in. I’ve said no to a phone and watch and will hold firm on that for as long as I can. If I have my way she will never be on TikTok. We all know it gives girls body image issues and ideas about suicide and cutting so it is beyond me why any parent with 1/2 a brain would allow this and I have zero respect for parents who do.

+1000 NP

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Something’s gone really wrong when 10 year olds are announcing their bisexuality.

+1

[Anonymous]

Do you live in Bethesda/ Chevy Chase?

When my child was at CCES kids started getting phones in 3rd grade. By 5th, most kids had iPhones.

I did not get my child a phone until 7th grade BTW

And yes I have seen 3-5 grades wearing all the things mentioned in previous posts: salon colored hair, crop shirts, etc.

Crop shirts are not appropriate for school at any age. Stick with your instinct.

Also had 5th grade girls changing pronouns etc. Definitely happening more than you know.

Do any of these girls have older siblings? That seems to make a difference.

Encourage other friends. Find new activities to meet new friends.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have a 4th grader. I am not into the crop top look either, but DD begs to wear them and I’m just not going to die on that hill.
Don’t you remember when you were young and your parents forbade you to wear something, so you just brought it to school and changed there? I’m just skipping that charade. Banning stuff just increases their allure.
I draw the line at:
hair dyeing/highlighting.
Multiple piercings

OP and her friend who is the most adventurous with this stuff has salon bleached hair and all that. I am not “sexualizing” this girl; she and her mom tease me for not taking DD in for hair dye or permitting the makeup or belly shirts; the girl claims she is “bisexual” and maybe she is. DD hasn’t expressed any identity-defining sexuality stuff ever to us but to be fair, she seems quite far from her first period and puberty, small for her age and not into crushes at this point. She doesn’t ask for clothes and has never changed at school or anything. I posted because this mother and another keep trying to needle me over this sh!t and I feel pretty defensive and fed up at this point. I totally get that curiosity and appropriateness over time will change things, but I don’t think I’m an oppressor since DD doesn’t ask and has friends who are absolutely not into cool clothes or devices on any level, so I think it’s okay. I got flamed initially and I don’t think I’m being a jerk, I think I’m long-term acquaintances with 2 particular moms who don’t like that DD and I are not exactly like them at this stage, even if DD is further away from those big physical and emotional upheavals than their DDs at this stage. I hate the comments I get periodically but we are all mothers to only girls so I know my context is way more limited than that of many parents here.

OP, I'm also a mom to an only girl who is in elementary and I don't think you need to justify anything. They can do what they want, but what you are doing is totally in line with how we're raising our DD and I don't think it's hurting your kid. Not even socially. The kids are at an age where having parents say they can't do certain things is still acceptable. It's not like they are juniors in high school and your kid has a 7pm curfew. You are doing the right thing. I am actually grateful to you as a fellow parent because if more parents were like you, it would be easier to raise these kids. Don't let these other parents pressure you into their crap parenting approach just so they can feel validated. YOU are doing the right thing. They are being lazy or lacking in values. Parenting is not about making your kid "cool" or giving in to every trend or whim. You're doing it right.

[Anonymous]

This is all very surprising. We live outside of D.C. and don’t see any of this—“sexy” clothes on 4th and 5th graders, makeup, or everyone with iPhones. Probably some of them have iPhones, but it’s definitely not the norm. Just to say that it doesn’t have to be like this!

[Anonymous]

My kids go to a DCPS and we don’t have any of this in 4th grade. A few kids wore makeup to a school dance & some kids do have iPhones (mostly kids who are OOB & commute), but that’s it. There is no one wearing makeup every day, most kids don’t have phones & there is no group chat yet. When the kids haven been trying to plan a specific meet up, parents will let kids use our phones… but that way everyone is aware that parents are seeing 100% of texts. No drama yet. I do expect a big uptick in phones next year when kids start heading to charters.

[Anonymous]

I am a strict mom but have some different perspective on some of this stuff. Honestly, I think we are at the same school as OP.
My girls aren’t allowed crop tops, but I have allowed cropped sweatshirts (as a birthday gift from Lulu) - and they can wear full length shirts underneath. I’m not particularly panicked about Lulu or Sephora. They both have extensive chores and receive an allowance for them - and they pay for a lot of this stuff themselves (also with money they get for birthdays or Xmas from extended family). They are responsible and have bank accounts where they save their money. Sephora buying is mostly lip gloss, sol de janiero sprays (slight step up from bath and body works I guess but ugh!) and skincare products like bubble that are ok for kid skin.

Both of my girls started dance in pre school and had to wear makeup for recitals - I’ve explained what I absolutely do not want to see (raccoon eyes, eye liner, etc) - so if they want to swipe some blush and lip gloss on before school I just don’t think it’s a big deal.
My older DD has a phone in sixth - but I’ve chosen to lock it down and have monitoring software all over it. All text messages come to my phone as well. Screen time is 90 mins a day - no social media- but she is allowed to text and FaceTime friends. Phone goes dead at 9 pm and doesn’t re open until 7 am. For my kids, handing them a phone in eighth and allowing them to go wild with it wouldn’t work - so we are gradually easing into things while they show me they are mature enough to handle it. With both, I’ve allowed YouTube this year - and I can track their searches and videos on monitoring software - I won’t allow tik tok or instagram etc probably until early eighth or right before high school. I also like the phone for safety reasons - the Apple Watch signal was never as reliable as I liked and with things like sleep overs, school dances, and more freedom I like that they can contact me.

I do think fitting in is important at this age - but it can be done with some tweaks that keep them safe and also allow them to learn the skills they’ll need eventually in high school to manage all of this.
Honestly the biggest issues I see are with kids wearing Apple Watches or who have iPads - those kids are the one who’s parents don’t seem to be monitoring and are swearing or sending inappropriate things - or they’ve figured out how to out discord or tik tok on their laptops/chrome books. I am floored by a lot of the stuff I see but I think it’s very naive parenting.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Mental health -- esp for girls -- is basically linear with respect to age of first smartphone. Girls who got their first smartphone at 18 have better mental health than girls who got their first smartphone at 16, who have better mental health than girls who got their first smartphone at 14...

Thanks, I'll keep this in mind.

[Anonymous]

What is a "sophisticated" kid? A mindless consumer?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Are there really 4th graders wearing makeup? No, you are not crazy for not wanting your kid to wear makeup or expose her midriff at school. We don't even own an iPad in my house and life is all the better for it.

OP and yes, there are some who wear stuff beyond lip gloss in 4th and 5th. I can’t imagine putting on eyeliner because I can’t even do it fast on me, let alone her, in the mornings. It’s not everyone at all, but it’s some, and same for the belly tops in 4th. It’s cute but I guess I don’t like it for the age, not at the pool or whatever. DD has an iPad and I let her play on it, but put some limits and that works for us so far. No older sibling, so no phone, but we had kids in her class with older model iPhones in 2nd, more in 3rd, even more this year. The principal e-mails the parents every year telling us to avoid getting them phones for as long as possible, but having them seems somewhat common.

Where do you live? We live in Mclean, there is a lot of wealth here, and no child has a phone in 2nd and 3rd grade. You are either lying or are in a private school.

OP and no, I am not lying. I don’t live in McLean, and did not claim I did.

Where do you live, OP? This is not at all what we've experienced in a high SES area, too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The “sophisticated” girl has older siblings.

Yep. The ones causing problems in ES are always the ones with middle school or teenaged siblings.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Mental health -- esp for girls -- is basically linear with respect to age of first smartphone. Girls who got their first smartphone at 18 have better mental health than girls who got their first smartphone at 16, who have better mental health than girls who got their first smartphone at 14...

Yep. Exactly this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am a strict mom but have some different perspective on some of this stuff. Honestly, I think we are at the same school as OP.
My girls aren’t allowed crop tops, but I have allowed cropped sweatshirts (as a birthday gift from Lulu) - and they can wear full length shirts underneath. I’m not particularly panicked about Lulu or Sephora. They both have extensive chores and receive an allowance for them - and they pay for a lot of this stuff themselves (also with money they get for birthdays or Xmas from extended family). They are responsible and have bank accounts where they save their money. Sephora buying is mostly lip gloss, sol de janiero sprays (slight step up from bath and body works I guess but ugh!) and skincare products like bubble that are ok for kid skin.

Both of my girls started dance in pre school and had to wear makeup for recitals - I’ve explained what I absolutely do not want to see (raccoon eyes, eye liner, etc) - so if they want to swipe some blush and lip gloss on before school I just don’t think it’s a big deal.
My older DD has a phone in sixth - but I’ve chosen to lock it down and have monitoring software all over it. All text messages come to my phone as well. Screen time is 90 mins a day - no social media- but she is allowed to text and FaceTime friends. Phone goes dead at 9 pm and doesn’t re open until 7 am. For my kids, handing them a phone in eighth and allowing them to go wild with it wouldn’t work - so we are gradually easing into things while they show me they are mature enough to handle it. With both, I’ve allowed YouTube this year - and I can track their searches and videos on monitoring software - I won’t allow tik tok or instagram etc probably until early eighth or right before high school. I also like the phone for safety reasons - the Apple Watch signal was never as reliable as I liked and with things like sleep overs, school dances, and more freedom I like that they can contact me.

I do think fitting in is important at this age - but it can be done with some tweaks that keep them safe and also allow them to learn the skills they’ll need eventually in high school to manage all of this.
Honestly the biggest issues I see are with kids wearing Apple Watches or who have iPads - those kids are the one who’s parents don’t seem to be monitoring and are swearing or sending inappropriate things - or they’ve figured out how to out discord or tik tok on their laptops/chrome books. I am floored by a lot of the stuff I see but I think it’s very naive parenting.

OP and thank you for this, such good advice and perspective.

[Anonymous]

It's funny how "sophisticated" and "mature" refer to acting age 18-21... which is considered unsophisticated and immature by people above that age.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The “sophisticated” girl has older siblings.

Yep. The ones causing problems in ES are always the ones with middle school or teenaged siblings.

These girls have an older sister, not brother. They learn and copy things from their sisters and try them out on their bewildered peers. It's not appropriate at all but they think they are so much more mature than their "immature" peers who are acting age appropriate. But these girls will tell them they aren't cool, babyish, and will try to act much older than they are, not so coincidentally whatever age their sisters are.