should i up my tiger mom game?

[Anonymous]

I don't know the answer, OP. I was like your son--driven and able to achieve at a pretty high level with minimal supervision. My parents did not push me, at all. For a while, I wondered what "could have been" if they had pushed me more, as I encountered a lot of kids of high-pressure parents in college and law school who were much more accomplished than I was in certain ways. But, I also saw a bunch of those kids whose parents pushed them break down or flame out over the years, and I could easily have been one of them. At the end of the day, my parents were not really capable of pushing me: they don't have the disposition or the educational background themselves to know where to start. So, it is what it is.

FWIW, I applied for and got my own scholarships for college, plus student loans. I also managed to get a full-ride to law school, went to a big firm to pay down my undergrad loans, and have been more or less happy and successful as a lawyer ever since. So, it's hard to really regret anything about my parents' approach.

Just make sure your kid knows that you love him unconditionally, and that will go a long way.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:DS is a freshman. Very good student, does all his work with no parental involvement, currently getting all As and a high B in AP US history with minimal effort, plus ~2hrs of intense practice for his sport a day.
Generally we've been pretty hands off. We expect him to put in effort in school, exposed him to a lot in childhood, but did not really push hard on any academic enrichment or even monitor homework. He goes to public school. Participating in the intense sport is 100% his choosing - he may or may end up good enough, or interested enough, to participate in college. Otherwise he's a pretty ordinary kid with a good group of friends.

I'm wondering if, now that he's in high school, we should up our game. We're a donut hole family, so ultimately, where he goes to college will depend on aid offers, and while DH and I are of the mind that he is likely to be successful wherever he ends up, DS himself is focused on going to a very good school. If we doubled down, hired a tutor, or just did extensive review with him before those AP history tests, I'm pretty sure that high B in his AP class could be an A. I just don't know if that's worth it, and this college game is all new to me.

I feel this trade off between helping him get into the best school possible, but with a load of perhaps unnecessary stress and parental involvement, and letting him continue to be the one in the drivers seat and modeling balance instead of achieve-at-all-costs. Curious what those who have been through the college process think.

Stop with the fake donut hole family. You need to adjust your spending and save for college. A B in AP GOV is fine. It's a very hard class or at least at our school it is. But, you sound like lazy parents if you don't monitor things or get involved at all. So, not surprising you are trying to get out of paying for college screaming poverty when you are far from poor.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We pay for grades. It works and - frankly - is more akin to the real world where high performers get paid more in the workplace (exceptions abound, of course).

Big drop in compensation from an A to a B+. We have bonuses too for perfect GPA and certain milestones on SAT, class rank, etc. My kid decides what his time is worth....and he seems to like money.

It's nice because I'm not actually pressuring and following up. He wants to make some coin and pushes himself. Win-win for us.

But if your child was not capable of the “top dollar” performance, but absolutely trying his best…what would you do? Or if you saw his mental health suffering, to please you two?

First, the kid isn't "pleasing" us. His time and effort are worth money and we quantify it. Just like when you're in your career. So, in the end, he knows that if he hits an A in chemistry, that's going to get him the money to get those shoes he really wants. It's a virtuous cycle of cause-and-effect. You work hard, you score well, you get the reward. It's a self-regulating dopamine cycle.

We've always supplemented with our kid. Had some learning disabilities in the ECE years that required therapies (both provided by school and paid out of pocket). Have used tutors pretty regularly throughout MS and HS to help master material. Our kid has definitely struggled at times; when that happens we bring in a tutor. But it requires your kid asking for help.

We've told him that we are happy to spend on tutoring or supplemental materials if it helps him master the material. You're incentivized to ask for help if an "A" comes with a big pay day. An honors or AP class gets a bigger payout so you take a tougher set of classes.

The virtuous cycle continues. If he gets a B, well he lives with that. And learns to make do with less - just like in real life.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am not a Tiger Parent, but do consider As to be expected. My son, who has learning disabilities but is a methodical, hard-working person, had straight As in most of his dozen APs and other courses taking in high school. He had tutors for some subjects, which I consider part of a normal education (my mother and siblings had governesses and tutors at home, why not this generation of kids?).

Please retire the Tiger Parent concept and parent according to your lights and the kid you have.

Really??? Are you from the US? Growing up I never knew anyone with a tutor who didn't have severe academic issues and I only heard about governesses in books.

PP you replied to. I am European and I am indeed talking about a real governess, one who teaches and lives with the family. And my dear PP. Parents who can afford it hire tutors for their kids as early as elementary school, for remedial and enrichment purposes. Today, in the DC area.

I am also European, from London. Your terminology is archaic. There is no one in the whole of Europe who has a governess because they no longer exist. You might have a live-in tutor though.

So you can't read? I said my mother had a governess. And that nowadays, people shouldn't scoff at tutors, which are essentially a continuation of that.

I see several posters have responded to my post and side-tracked the thread. In your (jealous) haste to excoriate someone you perceive to be part of the elite, you're getting sloppy.

Yikes. Not the PP here, but what is up with you? You side-tracked the thread with your ridiculous, pretentious post.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I suppose it depends, what type of school are we talking about? Does he want to go to Harvard or Duke? Or does he want to go to like BC or Wake Forest?

Yep, it really matters what caliber of school we're talking about here. Best of the best or pretty good?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Please read Never Enough by Jennifer Wallace. I consider myself a hands off parent who doesn’t push but I learned a lot and wish I’d read it sooner. As a donut hole family I understand the concern about eligibility for merit aid but I assure you that there is plenty of merit aid if you don’t pin all your hopes on a few brand-name schools.

+1

Way to find merit: find a private school that does give merit with 40-50% acceptance rate (+) and your kid is at/above the 75/80th percentile. Want more merit, find one where your kid's stats are at/above 90%. The merit will flow.

for example:
Kid 1: 1500/3.99UW/10 AP---got merit at a T50 of 40K/year so total cost per year of only $40K. Had two more for T70 with merit of $25-30K/year

Kid 2: 1250/3.5UW/No AP---merit of 35% of tuition at two schools ranked 80-100, total cost of $40K/year at either, got merit of 67% tuition at one ranked 120 where total cost/year was $25K.

Kid 2 demonstrates that yes, even non-Top students can get excellent merit if you look at the right places.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Can your son mentally handle intense parental pressure? My kids would have offed themselves with the tiger mom approach. I say this with all seriousness.

It is NOT a healthy approach for the majority of kids. Really not the best way to approach life.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We pay for grades. It works and - frankly - is more akin to the real world where high performers get paid more in the workplace (exceptions abound, of course).

Big drop in compensation from an A to a B+. We have bonuses too for perfect GPA and certain milestones on SAT, class rank, etc. My kid decides what his time is worth....and he seems to like money.

It's nice because I'm not actually pressuring and following up. He wants to make some coin and pushes himself. Win-win for us.

But if your child was not capable of the “top dollar” performance, but absolutely trying his best…what would you do? Or if you saw his mental health suffering, to please you two?

Would hate to be her kid! The stress put on a kid who isn't capable could easily send them spiraling downward mentally. Imagine thinking giving 100% is not good enough for your parents, year after year after year and being told you are stupid

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:DS is a freshman. Very good student, does all his work with no parental involvement, currently getting all As and a high B in AP US history with minimal effort, plus ~2hrs of intense practice for his sport a day.
Generally we've been pretty hands off. We expect him to put in effort in school, exposed him to a lot in childhood, but did not really push hard on any academic enrichment or even monitor homework. He goes to public school. Participating in the intense sport is 100% his choosing - he may or may end up good enough, or interested enough, to participate in college. Otherwise he's a pretty ordinary kid with a good group of friends.

I'm wondering if, now that he's in high school, we should up our game. We're a donut hole family, so ultimately, where he goes to college will depend on aid offers, and while DH and I are of the mind that he is likely to be successful wherever he ends up, DS himself is focused on going to a very good school. If we doubled down, hired a tutor, or just did extensive review with him before those AP history tests, I'm pretty sure that high B in his AP class could be an A. I just don't know if that's worth it, and this college game is all new to me.

I feel this trade off between helping him get into the best school possible, but with a load of perhaps unnecessary stress and parental involvement, and letting him continue to be the one in the drivers seat and modeling balance instead of achieve-at-all-costs. Curious what those who have been through the college process think.

If you're truly a donut hole family, then he will get great offers if he continues at his current pace from schools that provide generous merit. You should be forthright with your DC about what is realistic. The number of times I've read posts about parents who didn't tell their DC till start of senior year that T10s were not in the cards is mind-boggling. This often occurs when families live in UMC neighborhoods where there are many full pay kids. If you are not full pay, then tell your DC now.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We pay for grades. It works and - frankly - is more akin to the real world where high performers get paid more in the workplace (exceptions abound, of course).

Big drop in compensation from an A to a B+. We have bonuses too for perfect GPA and certain milestones on SAT, class rank, etc. My kid decides what his time is worth....and he seems to like money.

It's nice because I'm not actually pressuring and following up. He wants to make some coin and pushes himself. Win-win for us.

I am honestly curious how you make this work! I thought about offering one of my kids money for making grades but couldn't figure it out.

What is your pay scale? A's are worth $500, B's $200, C's $100 and D's you sit in a corner and we don't feed you?

Does your kid go to public or private school? Do they play sports?

[Anonymous]

NO

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We pay for grades. It works and - frankly - is more akin to the real world where high performers get paid more in the workplace (exceptions abound, of course).

Big drop in compensation from an A to a B+. We have bonuses too for perfect GPA and certain milestones on SAT, class rank, etc. My kid decides what his time is worth....and he seems to like money.

It's nice because I'm not actually pressuring and following up. He wants to make some coin and pushes himself. Win-win for us.

How old is your kid? Let's see you post 10 to 15 years after they graduate and see how they are doing emotionally and mentally

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We pay for grades. It works and - frankly - is more akin to the real world where high performers get paid more in the workplace (exceptions abound, of course).

Big drop in compensation from an A to a B+. We have bonuses too for perfect GPA and certain milestones on SAT, class rank, etc. My kid decides what his time is worth....and he seems to like money.

It's nice because I'm not actually pressuring and following up. He wants to make some coin and pushes himself. Win-win for us.

How old is your kid? Let's see you post 10 to 15 years after they graduate and see how they are doing emotionally and mentally

+1000

Kids need to find their own self-motivation to learn and achieve in ES/MS/HS and beyond. Pressuring your kid to be perfect is a recipe for disaster. And yes, you may not see it now, but in 10-15 years, they may not want to be around you, or even better they may not want you around their kids (your grandkids) in order to protect them

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Please read Never Enough by Jennifer Wallace. I consider myself a hands off parent who doesn’t push but I learned a lot and wish I’d read it sooner. As a donut hole family I understand the concern about eligibility for merit aid but I assure you that there is plenty of merit aid if you don’t pin all your hopes on a few brand-name schools.

Every parent in the DMV needs to read this book. I also wish I had read it sooner. I had no idea how much pressure I put on my kids without knowing it--nor the damage it did.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We pay for grades. It works and - frankly - is more akin to the real world where high performers get paid more in the workplace (exceptions abound, of course).

Big drop in compensation from an A to a B+. We have bonuses too for perfect GPA and certain milestones on SAT, class rank, etc. My kid decides what his time is worth....and he seems to like money.

It's nice because I'm not actually pressuring and following up. He wants to make some coin and pushes himself. Win-win for us.

I thought this post was a joke at first. This is seriously disturbing. You're his parents, not his employers. Maybe he's performing well because he's afraid of getting "fired."