If you had a completely non-potty trained 5 year old

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I worked with a 5 year old like that once, child had developmental disabilities but the reason why they hadn’t been trained was lack of parent follow through. No other reason than dad worked away from home and mom was too busy playing games on the computer to be bothered. She knew this as she admitted that she was the reason the child hadn’t been trained.

I had to have my supervisees train when we were in the home (so like 3 hours, 5-10 times per week) and after a couple months the mom hopped on board. Not ideal but it worked, much more quickly than I had expected actually.

I’d ask parent if there’s a medical concern and if not then train in school and find a way to teach mom what you did so she can follow through at home. Some parents just need someone to guide them in the right direction or to see that their child is capable of something they didn’t expect them to be capable of.

"train in school and find a way to teach mom"?? and this is just another reason why teachers quit and are not paid enough. A teacher should teach. At no point should the school or teacher waste time potty training this kid. He either has a disability and needs to perhaps be moved to a different class or have an aid or demand the parents train him. This is such lazy parenting. Are they low income? Perhaps they are not even aware of what to do.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I also teach kindergarten and I had one untrained student last year and one this year. Luckily, one parent agreed to move the child down to pre-k since his birthday was in late August. The student last year was at least 5 and a half. No special needs, no speech delay. Mom just said he "wasn't interested" in using the bathroom. Admin told me that he would need to be able to change himself if he had an accident or his parent would need to come do it. It was amazing how quickly he was trained after Mom had to come in at least once a week.

THIS. If the parents have to come in everytime he has an accident they will get serious about working with child or finding the resources for him

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s a troll, there’s no teacher in the world like this.

Unfortunately, if you've been following the school forums, there's been a string of threads addressing students with special needs where current and former teachers have displayed incredible ignorance and intolerance towards kids with disabilities.

This can't be an experienced kindergarten teacher, but it could be an older elementary teacher that recently switched to K. And if her colleagues knew she wasn't able to deal with kids with disabilities, they may have given her classes without kids with IEPs. That doesn't work for kindergarten, though, because a lot of kids won't get IEPs until after school starts.

She is perplexed and frustrated, it's a normal reaction, especially since the parents are non communicative and uninvolved. The special needs forum is full of parents who say I can't do this for the rest of my life, but here we are going to bash K teachers for trying to ameliorate a tough situation while also wrangling 12-15 other 5 year olds.

I’m the person that thinks this is a troll. I have a kid with profound special needs that wears a diaper at age 14, has no communication and is in a self contained class. I don’t believe any actual long time teacher would be “perplexed”. Frustrated — sure. Trying to push to get this kid the services they need, which might not be in her class — sure. But this big eyed “how on earth does this ever happen” is troll level nonsense.

And to the other poster, sure there are some teachers that act pretty jerky about special needs kids. But I still call troll on this one.

I DON”T because I’m gonna bet your kid came in to K with an IEP. In that case, this is fine. The OP is talking about a kid who has no identified needs, no IEP and is NOT potty trained. IF the issue is profound disability, that kid should already have an IEP. If a kid walks off the street in K, they are expected to be toilet trained and it will take at least 4-6 months to get that kid the services he/she needs.

She is asking HOW THIS HAPPENS because the parents never flagged toilet training issue. They never sought services and just started their kid.

PSA- if you are a parent and your kid isn’t toilet trained by K, get your kid to child find and get services.

Unless you're trying to get into PEP, and there are a lot of reasons you wouldn't, there isn't much of a reason to go through through Child Find. And even if you worked with Infants and Toddlers earlier, kids age out of that before kindergarten. So if you don't transition to PEP, you have to start the process all over again.

You can go through DESC over the summer before kindergarten starts, but MCPS doesn't make it easy to figure out what you need to do for that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I worked with a 5 year old like that once, child had developmental disabilities but the reason why they hadn’t been trained was lack of parent follow through. No other reason than dad worked away from home and mom was too busy playing games on the computer to be bothered. She knew this as she admitted that she was the reason the child hadn’t been trained.

I had to have my supervisees train when we were in the home (so like 3 hours, 5-10 times per week) and after a couple months the mom hopped on board. Not ideal but it worked, much more quickly than I had expected actually.

I’d ask parent if there’s a medical concern and if not then train in school and find a way to teach mom what you did so she can follow through at home. Some parents just need someone to guide them in the right direction or to see that their child is capable of something they didn’t expect them to be capable of.

"train in school and find a way to teach mom"?? and this is just another reason why teachers quit and are not paid enough. A teacher should teach. At no point should the school or teacher waste time potty training this kid. He either has a disability and needs to perhaps be moved to a different class or have an aid or demand the parents train him. This is such lazy parenting. Are they low income? Perhaps they are not even aware of what to do.

Please remember you don't know what disabilities the child may have, nor do you know what the parents have and haven't done.

Also, if the child is able to keep up with the curriculum of a general education class, it's entirely reasonable for the parents to want him to stay there.

I would find it troubling if the parents aren't pursuing evaluations through the school. The op wasn't clear about that. She suggested they weren't, but I don't find the OP very credible.

[Anonymous]

Make the parents come get him and change him every time this happens.
This is crazy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Make the parents come get him and change him every time this happens.
This is crazy.

That's not really enforceable. You can't suspend a kid for a bathroom accident, nor does that fall under exclusion criteria for sending a kid home.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s a troll, there’s no teacher in the world like this.

Unfortunately, if you've been following the school forums, there's been a string of threads addressing students with special needs where current and former teachers have displayed incredible ignorance and intolerance towards kids with disabilities.

This can't be an experienced kindergarten teacher, but it could be an older elementary teacher that recently switched to K. And if her colleagues knew she wasn't able to deal with kids with disabilities, they may have given her classes without kids with IEPs. That doesn't work for kindergarten, though, because a lot of kids won't get IEPs until after school starts.

She is perplexed and frustrated, it's a normal reaction, especially since the parents are non communicative and uninvolved. The special needs forum is full of parents who say I can't do this for the rest of my life, but here we are going to bash K teachers for trying to ameliorate a tough situation while also wrangling 12-15 other 5 year olds.

I’m the person that thinks this is a troll. I have a kid with profound special needs that wears a diaper at age 14, has no communication and is in a self contained class. I don’t believe any actual long time teacher would be “perplexed”. Frustrated — sure. Trying to push to get this kid the services they need, which might not be in her class — sure. But this big eyed “how on earth does this ever happen” is troll level nonsense.

And to the other poster, sure there are some teachers that act pretty jerky about special needs kids. But I still call troll on this one.

I DON”T because I’m gonna bet your kid came in to K with an IEP. In that case, this is fine. The OP is talking about a kid who has no identified needs, no IEP and is NOT potty trained. IF the issue is profound disability, that kid should already have an IEP. If a kid walks off the street in K, they are expected to be toilet trained and it will take at least 4-6 months to get that kid the services he/she needs.

She is asking HOW THIS HAPPENS because the parents never flagged toilet training issue. They never sought services and just started their kid.

PSA- if you are a parent and your kid isn’t toilet trained by K, get your kid to child find and get services.

Unless you're trying to get into PEP, and there are a lot of reasons you wouldn't, there isn't much of a reason to go through through Child Find. And even if you worked with Infants and Toddlers earlier, kids age out of that before kindergarten. So if you don't transition to PEP, you have to start the process all over again.

You can go through DESC over the summer before kindergarten starts, but MCPS doesn't make it easy to figure out what you need to do for that.

Yes, if a kid isn’t potty trained and went through infants and toddlers, parents should contact the school before school begins and request a meeting with child find about potty training. Not being potty trained by 5 is atypical and parents should know that it is expected by Kindergarten when your kid starts Kindergarten . To NOT contact anyone is to hurt your child not to mention take time away from the other children in the class for potty training. Did the parents never mention this at well child visits?

The Kindergarten manual for MCPS states (since you mentioned it) “have your child manage clothing and footwear, toys, and toilet needs.”
It is an expectation for typical kids, so if your kid isn’t, talk to the doctor and call the school.

Here is the website for MCPS child find

https://www2.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/departments/special-education/programs-Services/child-find#:~:text=Child%20Find%20provides%20free%20developmental,previously%20identified%20with%20a%20disability.

If your kid needs help from March 27 to the start of K it says to contact the child’s school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s a troll, there’s no teacher in the world like this.

Unfortunately, if you've been following the school forums, there's been a string of threads addressing students with special needs where current and former teachers have displayed incredible ignorance and intolerance towards kids with disabilities.

This can't be an experienced kindergarten teacher, but it could be an older elementary teacher that recently switched to K. And if her colleagues knew she wasn't able to deal with kids with disabilities, they may have given her classes without kids with IEPs. That doesn't work for kindergarten, though, because a lot of kids won't get IEPs until after school starts.

She is perplexed and frustrated, it's a normal reaction, especially since the parents are non communicative and uninvolved. The special needs forum is full of parents who say I can't do this for the rest of my life, but here we are going to bash K teachers for trying to ameliorate a tough situation while also wrangling 12-15 other 5 year olds.

I’m the person that thinks this is a troll. I have a kid with profound special needs that wears a diaper at age 14, has no communication and is in a self contained class. I don’t believe any actual long time teacher would be “perplexed”. Frustrated — sure. Trying to push to get this kid the services they need, which might not be in her class — sure. But this big eyed “how on earth does this ever happen” is troll level nonsense.

And to the other poster, sure there are some teachers that act pretty jerky about special needs kids. But I still call troll on this one.

I DON”T because I’m gonna bet your kid came in to K with an IEP. In that case, this is fine. The OP is talking about a kid who has no identified needs, no IEP and is NOT potty trained. IF the issue is profound disability, that kid should already have an IEP. If a kid walks off the street in K, they are expected to be toilet trained and it will take at least 4-6 months to get that kid the services he/she needs.

She is asking HOW THIS HAPPENS because the parents never flagged toilet training issue. They never sought services and just started their kid.

PSA- if you are a parent and your kid isn’t toilet trained by K, get your kid to child find and get services.

Unless you're trying to get into PEP, and there are a lot of reasons you wouldn't, there isn't much of a reason to go through through Child Find. And even if you worked with Infants and Toddlers earlier, kids age out of that before kindergarten. So if you don't transition to PEP, you have to start the process all over again.

You can go through DESC over the summer before kindergarten starts, but MCPS doesn't make it easy to figure out what you need to do for that.

Yes, if a kid isn’t potty trained and went through infants and toddlers, parents should contact the school before school begins and request a meeting with child find about potty training. Not being potty trained by 5 is atypical and parents should know that it is expected by Kindergarten when your kid starts Kindergarten . To NOT contact anyone is to hurt your child not to mention take time away from the other children in the class for potty training. Did the parents never mention this at well child visits?

The Kindergarten manual for MCPS states (since you mentioned it) “have your child manage clothing and footwear, toys, and toilet needs.”
It is an expectation for typical kids, so if your kid isn’t, talk to the doctor and call the school.

Here is the website for MCPS child find

https://www2.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/departments/special-education/programs-Services/child-find#:~:text=Child%20Find%20provides%20free%20developmental,previously%20identified%20with%20a%20disability.

If your kid needs help from March 27 to the start of K it says to contact the child’s school.

If this is real, there probably aren’t two parents involved. Dad is probably out of the picture, and mom almost certainly isn’t the type to show up to well child checks with questions, if she shows up at all.

[Anonymous]

Do you know how often the kid wear diapers at home? Have you asked him if he uses the bathroom when he’s at home? Ask him who changes him at home.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I worked with a 5 year old like that once, child had developmental disabilities but the reason why they hadn’t been trained was lack of parent follow through. No other reason than dad worked away from home and mom was too busy playing games on the computer to be bothered. She knew this as she admitted that she was the reason the child hadn’t been trained.

I had to have my supervisees train when we were in the home (so like 3 hours, 5-10 times per week) and after a couple months the mom hopped on board. Not ideal but it worked, much more quickly than I had expected actually.

I’d ask parent if there’s a medical concern and if not then train in school and find a way to teach mom what you did so she can follow through at home. Some parents just need someone to guide them in the right direction or to see that their child is capable of something they didn’t expect them to be capable of.

"train in school and find a way to teach mom"?? and this is just another reason why teachers quit and are not paid enough. A teacher should teach. At no point should the school or teacher waste time potty training this kid. He either has a disability and needs to perhaps be moved to a different class or have an aid or demand the parents train him. This is such lazy parenting. Are they low income? Perhaps they are not even aware of what to do.

Please remember you don't know what disabilities the child may have, nor do you know what the parents have and haven't done.

Also, if the child is able to keep up with the curriculum of a general education class, it's entirely reasonable for the parents to want him to stay there.

I would find it troubling if the parents aren't pursuing evaluations through the school. The op wasn't clear about that. She suggested they weren't, but I don't find the OP very credible.

I am a former teacher. Unfortunately, there are a lot of parents with their head in the sand about potential developmental issues. And sometimes the kid just don’t get flagged before starting kindergarten, particularly if they didn’t attend preschool.

OP didn’t say how long they had been reaching, but the first couple years can be pretty eye opening.

[Anonymous]

Oops, teaching.

[Anonymous]

Pretty much every 5+ year old I’ve seen who isn’t potty trained has developmental delays. On occasion there is abuse and on occasion there are parents who are very hung ho about following the kids lead and don’t train because the kid doesn’t want to.

This is a health a safety issue at school so you should definitely be looping in administration, counselors, and parents. Accidents upon transition to kindergarten are very common, but if the child truly isn’t potty trained at all they need additional supports - OT and possibly neuropsych eval, consult with developmental pediatrician. - pediatrician

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s a troll, there’s no teacher in the world like this.

Unfortunately, if you've been following the school forums, there's been a string of threads addressing students with special needs where current and former teachers have displayed incredible ignorance and intolerance towards kids with disabilities.

This can't be an experienced kindergarten teacher, but it could be an older elementary teacher that recently switched to K. And if her colleagues knew she wasn't able to deal with kids with disabilities, they may have given her classes without kids with IEPs. That doesn't work for kindergarten, though, because a lot of kids won't get IEPs until after school starts.

She is perplexed and frustrated, it's a normal reaction, especially since the parents are non communicative and uninvolved. The special needs forum is full of parents who say I can't do this for the rest of my life, but here we are going to bash K teachers for trying to ameliorate a tough situation while also wrangling 12-15 other 5 year olds.

I’m the person that thinks this is a troll. I have a kid with profound special needs that wears a diaper at age 14, has no communication and is in a self contained class. I don’t believe any actual long time teacher would be “perplexed”. Frustrated — sure. Trying to push to get this kid the services they need, which might not be in her class — sure. But this big eyed “how on earth does this ever happen” is troll level nonsense.

And to the other poster, sure there are some teachers that act pretty jerky about special needs kids. But I still call troll on this one.

I DON”T because I’m gonna bet your kid came in to K with an IEP. In that case, this is fine. The OP is talking about a kid who has no identified needs, no IEP and is NOT potty trained. IF the issue is profound disability, that kid should already have an IEP. If a kid walks off the street in K, they are expected to be toilet trained and it will take at least 4-6 months to get that kid the services he/she needs.

She is asking HOW THIS HAPPENS because the parents never flagged toilet training issue. They never sought services and just started their kid.

PSA- if you are a parent and your kid isn’t toilet trained by K, get your kid to child find and get services.

Unless you're trying to get into PEP, and there are a lot of reasons you wouldn't, there isn't much of a reason to go through through Child Find. And even if you worked with Infants and Toddlers earlier, kids age out of that before kindergarten. So if you don't transition to PEP, you have to start the process all over again.

You can go through DESC over the summer before kindergarten starts, but MCPS doesn't make it easy to figure out what you need to do for that.

Yes, if a kid isn’t potty trained and went through infants and toddlers, parents should contact the school before school begins and request a meeting with child find about potty training. Not being potty trained by 5 is atypical and parents should know that it is expected by Kindergarten when your kid starts Kindergarten . To NOT contact anyone is to hurt your child not to mention take time away from the other children in the class for potty training. Did the parents never mention this at well child visits?

The Kindergarten manual for MCPS states (since you mentioned it) “have your child manage clothing and footwear, toys, and toilet needs.”
It is an expectation for typical kids, so if your kid isn’t, talk to the doctor and call the school.

Here is the website for MCPS child find

https://www2.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/departments/special-education/programs-Services/child-find#:~:text=Child%20Find%20provides%20free%20developmental,previously%20identified%20with%20a%20disability.

If your kid needs help from March 27 to the start of K it says to contact the child’s school.

Yes, if you happen to know to look at that website, you can start the process early. But if you're focused on the public communications going to out to parents about kindergarten registration, you'll never know. And even if you think to ask your home school, they won't know, and depending on who you talk to, they might tell you that you need to wait until the school year begins. (And similarly, DESC doesn't know how kindergarten registration works if your child will be placed in the home school)

I've been through this process a couple times. It was an absolute mess both times. I don't understand why MCPS isn't more motivated to encourage screenings and assessments before the school year begins. I suspect it is because they don't want to carry more staff over the summer months, but that would be very short-sighted.

[Anonymous]

At the school I work at in 1st this year there are 5 kids with toileting problems. Daily accident problems.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:At the school I work at in 1st this year there are 5 kids with toileting problems. Daily accident problems.

How many of those 5 have IEPs?