If you had a completely non-potty trained 5 year old

[Anonymous]

I know of a kid like this. Serious dysfunction at home with a strong family history of OCD and autism and anxiety. The family dysfunction
means they were not able to undertake the proper interventions/access professional support for potty training earlier. Also child probably should have been held back.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I would assume a disability or medical condition that has gone undiagnosed, and I would seek to involve both your child study team and your nurse. I would also recognize you need the parents, who are likely embarrassed and reacting in ways that look like they don't care, to be your allies and not to alienate them.

Kids this age are very motivated to be like their peers. That this kid is failing to do so is a sign that something is wrong, and you have a child find obligation under federal law.

-- also a teacher.

Oh yeah, good point about the parents. I would not assume that their response means they don’t care. They likely don’t know what to do and are confused by the suggestion that there is something they can do at home to change behavior in school. You need to be proactive in your communication & clear in your actions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would assume a disability or medical condition that has gone undiagnosed, and I would seek to involve both your child study team and your nurse. I would also recognize you need the parents, who are likely embarrassed and reacting in ways that look like they don't care, to be your allies and not to alienate them.

Kids this age are very motivated to be like their peers. That this kid is failing to do so is a sign that something is wrong, and you have a child find obligation under federal law.

-- also a teacher.

Not sure what a child study team is, never heard of one. The nurse is involved and made the same recommendation that I did…bring it up to pediatrician.

By child study team, PP means that you need to initiate the process to get the child assessed for a disability and IEP. It can have different names. As your principal or special ed coordinator. Although people get mad when teachers do this, you can (should) absolutely say: “I believe Larlo may have a disability impacting his ability to access the curriculum as supported by x, y and z observations. He should be evaluated.”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s a troll, there’s no teacher in the world like this.

Unfortunately, if you've been following the school forums, there's been a string of threads addressing students with special needs where current and former teachers have displayed incredible ignorance and intolerance towards kids with disabilities.

This can't be an experienced kindergarten teacher, but it could be an older elementary teacher that recently switched to K. And if her colleagues knew she wasn't able to deal with kids with disabilities, they may have given her classes without kids with IEPs. That doesn't work for kindergarten, though, because a lot of kids won't get IEPs until after school starts.

Huh? I’m not getting any of this from OP. OP isn’t refusing to help the kid - it’s an unusual situation she hasn’t experienced before. She doesn’t appear to be well-versed in the special ed process, but that is unfortunately the rule and not the exception. At least she’s on here asking for insight!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It isn’t uncommon the last few years to have kids who show up to kindergarten wearing diapers or Pull Ups. My daughter who teaches kindergarten has had a few students in the last few years who haven’t been trained. In one case, there was a developmental delay but in the other cases, the parents just said the kid didn’t want to learn. The parents did send in Pull Ups but the kids were expected to change them.

Hmm. This may be the consequence of the bad advice parents get about “not pushing potty training - he will do it when he is ready!” My kid definitely would never have been ready. I got the clear message that potty training by 3 was expected for preschool so I got “Oh Crap” and took a few days off work to do it. If as a society we are no longer telling parents that potty training is something they need to be actively doing by a certain age, some will fall through the cracks.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It isn’t uncommon the last few years to have kids who show up to kindergarten wearing diapers or Pull Ups. My daughter who teaches kindergarten has had a few students in the last few years who haven’t been trained. In one case, there was a developmental delay but in the other cases, the parents just said the kid didn’t want to learn. The parents did send in Pull Ups but the kids were expected to change them.

Hmm. This may be the consequence of the bad advice parents get about “not pushing potty training - he will do it when he is ready!” My kid definitely would never have been ready. I got the clear message that potty training by 3 was expected for preschool so I got “Oh Crap” and took a few days off work to do it. If as a society we are no longer telling parents that potty training is something they need to be actively doing by a certain age, some will fall through the cracks.

Oh how naive you are if you think that's all it should take to potty train any kid.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Barring a medical reason, it’s due to lazy parents.

+1

I do think we're told not to worry and not to rush these things. After 3 potty training gets very difficult. We should start getting kids used to the idea of the toilet by 2 even if we don't think kids are 100% ready to use it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s a troll, there’s no teacher in the world like this.

Unfortunately, if you've been following the school forums, there's been a string of threads addressing students with special needs where current and former teachers have displayed incredible ignorance and intolerance towards kids with disabilities.

This can't be an experienced kindergarten teacher, but it could be an older elementary teacher that recently switched to K. And if her colleagues knew she wasn't able to deal with kids with disabilities, they may have given her classes without kids with IEPs. That doesn't work for kindergarten, though, because a lot of kids won't get IEPs until after school starts.

Huh? I’m not getting any of this from OP. OP isn’t refusing to help the kid - it’s an unusual situation she hasn’t experienced before. She doesn’t appear to be well-versed in the special ed process, but that is unfortunately the rule and not the exception. At least she’s on here asking for insight!

I didn't mean to imply any malicious intent, but it's both incredible and unfortunate that there are some teachers-- particularly lower elementary teachers-- that are so ignorant of developmental disabilities. Isn't that covered in their degree programs and school district onboarding?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Barring a medical reason, it’s due to lazy parents.

This. Poor kid. Are the parents drug addicts or something?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s a troll, there’s no teacher in the world like this.

Unfortunately, if you've been following the school forums, there's been a string of threads addressing students with special needs where current and former teachers have displayed incredible ignorance and intolerance towards kids with disabilities.

This can't be an experienced kindergarten teacher, but it could be an older elementary teacher that recently switched to K. And if her colleagues knew she wasn't able to deal with kids with disabilities, they may have given her classes without kids with IEPs. That doesn't work for kindergarten, though, because a lot of kids won't get IEPs until after school starts.

Huh? I’m not getting any of this from OP. OP isn’t refusing to help the kid - it’s an unusual situation she hasn’t experienced before. She doesn’t appear to be well-versed in the special ed process, but that is unfortunately the rule and not the exception. At least she’s on here asking for insight!

I didn't mean to imply any malicious intent, but it's both incredible and unfortunate that there are some teachers-- particularly lower elementary teachers-- that are so ignorant of developmental disabilities. Isn't that covered in their degree programs and school district onboarding?

it absolutely is not. teaching is really an on job training kind of situation. especially in early elementary. special education services are very expensive for the school system and there are few people going into special education. the current message from my county is that “we (classroom teachers) are all special educators”.

my take from the OP is that they are looking to gauge how unusual this is. Even if they are a parent themselves, potty training may have been easy for their kids and their friend group.
I’ve also taught for a very long time and have only encountered a small number of kids who struggled as much as this child seems to be at this age. All of them had either a medical issue or a developmental delay. OP seems to have had good intentions in asking the questions here. Too bad some people took such offense.
Best of luck to the OP and this child/their family.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s a troll, there’s no teacher in the world like this.

Unfortunately, if you've been following the school forums, there's been a string of threads addressing students with special needs where current and former teachers have displayed incredible ignorance and intolerance towards kids with disabilities.

This can't be an experienced kindergarten teacher, but it could be an older elementary teacher that recently switched to K. And if her colleagues knew she wasn't able to deal with kids with disabilities, they may have given her classes without kids with IEPs. That doesn't work for kindergarten, though, because a lot of kids won't get IEPs until after school starts.

Huh? I’m not getting any of this from OP. OP isn’t refusing to help the kid - it’s an unusual situation she hasn’t experienced before. She doesn’t appear to be well-versed in the special ed process, but that is unfortunately the rule and not the exception. At least she’s on here asking for insight!

I didn't mean to imply any malicious intent, but it's both incredible and unfortunate that there are some teachers-- particularly lower elementary teachers-- that are so ignorant of developmental disabilities. Isn't that covered in their degree programs and school district onboarding?

it absolutely is not. teaching is really an on job training kind of situation. especially in early elementary. special education services are very expensive for the school system and there are few people going into special education. the current message from my county is that “we (classroom teachers) are all special educators”.

my take from the OP is that they are looking to gauge how unusual this is. Even if they are a parent themselves, potty training may have been easy for their kids and their friend group.
I’ve also taught for a very long time and have only encountered a small number of kids who struggled as much as this child seems to be at this age. All of them had either a medical issue or a developmental delay. OP seems to have had good intentions in asking the questions here. Too bad some people took such offense.
Best of luck to the OP and this child/their family.

Do education majors really not have to take developmental psychology?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s a troll, there’s no teacher in the world like this.

Unfortunately, if you've been following the school forums, there's been a string of threads addressing students with special needs where current and former teachers have displayed incredible ignorance and intolerance towards kids with disabilities.

This can't be an experienced kindergarten teacher, but it could be an older elementary teacher that recently switched to K. And if her colleagues knew she wasn't able to deal with kids with disabilities, they may have given her classes without kids with IEPs. That doesn't work for kindergarten, though, because a lot of kids won't get IEPs until after school starts.

Huh? I’m not getting any of this from OP. OP isn’t refusing to help the kid - it’s an unusual situation she hasn’t experienced before. She doesn’t appear to be well-versed in the special ed process, but that is unfortunately the rule and not the exception. At least she’s on here asking for insight!

I didn't mean to imply any malicious intent, but it's both incredible and unfortunate that there are some teachers-- particularly lower elementary teachers-- that are so ignorant of developmental disabilities. Isn't that covered in their degree programs and school district onboarding?

it absolutely is not. teaching is really an on job training kind of situation. especially in early elementary. special education services are very expensive for the school system and there are few people going into special education. the current message from my county is that “we (classroom teachers) are all special educators”.

my take from the OP is that they are looking to gauge how unusual this is. Even if they are a parent themselves, potty training may have been easy for their kids and their friend group.
I’ve also taught for a very long time and have only encountered a small number of kids who struggled as much as this child seems to be at this age. All of them had either a medical issue or a developmental delay. OP seems to have had good intentions in asking the questions here. Too bad some people took such offense.
Best of luck to the OP and this child/their family.

Do education majors really not have to take developmental psychology?

i got my degree over 25 years ago. i took one required child development class and a child psychology class by choice. everything i learned was in the classroom and then as a parent. i’ve heard from newer teachers that they have to take one special education class but they also feel that it doesn’t proel are them for the reality of teaching in a general education classroom and also identifying and supporting children with special needs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would assume a disability or medical condition that has gone undiagnosed, and I would seek to involve both your child study team and your nurse. I would also recognize you need the parents, who are likely embarrassed and reacting in ways that look like they don't care, to be your allies and not to alienate them.

Kids this age are very motivated to be like their peers. That this kid is failing to do so is a sign that something is wrong, and you have a child find obligation under federal law.

-- also a teacher.

Not sure what a child study team is, never heard of one. The nurse is involved and made the same recommendation that I did…bring it up to pediatrician.

By child study team, PP means that you need to initiate the process to get the child assessed for a disability and IEP. It can have different names. As your principal or special ed coordinator. Although people get mad when teachers do this, you can (should) absolutely say: “I believe Larlo may have a disability impacting his ability to access the curriculum as supported by x, y and z observations. He should be evaluated.”

He is unable to take care of personal care tasks and meet the expectations of Kindergarten entry because he is not toilet trained. This isn’t a just a curriculum issue, it is a functional life skill. He would be eligible for summer school in some districts because he is not potty trained. But, yes child study. The admin shouldn’t fight this at all if you have documented and brought him to the nurse everyday. Don’t let him sit in the bathroom with his soiled clothes. You have to bring him to the nurse (or call the nurse to you) to make sure it is documented through the nurse. Give it a week, THEN call a child study and say, he soiled himself and had to go to the nurse x times last week.

Sadly, if you handle it in the classroom, you are letting the problem perpetuate itself, you HAVE to make it someone else’s problem (nurse, office) before the issue will be addressed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I feel like you are a troll because obviously you should talk to school social worker about it.

Go talk to any teachers in your life and you’ll see OP is not a troll.

You’d be shocked at how many parents have totally given up and how indifferent administration is to it all.

Teachers are quitting in mass for a reason.

[Anonymous]

How long is he usually at school before having an accident? You should ask him if he uses the bathroom at home or not.