If you had a completely non-potty trained 5 year old

[Anonymous]

Try to help me understand why/how this happens. I am a kindergarten teacher. I have a child in my class who is 5 and not even a little potty trained. They will not attempt to use the bathroom, will not verbalize the need to go when asked, once it’s clear they are soiled they will not acknowledge it. I’ve been teaching a long time but this is a first.
Has anyone experienced this as a parent? If so, can you help me understand. I hate to admit it but I am losing my patience (internally, of course) with the situation. I’ve spoken to the parents and they are aware but do not seem concerned or particularly motivated to address it.
For what it’s worth, the child knows how to undress, clean themselves, throw away the dirty items, dress in clean clothes and put the dirty items in a bag to go home.
And yea, I have other speech and developmental concerns too.

[Anonymous]

I would assume a disability or medical condition that has gone undiagnosed, and I would seek to involve both your child study team and your nurse. I would also recognize you need the parents, who are likely embarrassed and reacting in ways that look like they don't care, to be your allies and not to alienate them.

Kids this age are very motivated to be like their peers. That this kid is failing to do so is a sign that something is wrong, and you have a child find obligation under federal law.

-- also a teacher.

[Anonymous]

I feel like you are a troll because obviously you should talk to school social worker about it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I feel like you are a troll because obviously you should talk to school social worker about it.

Interesting take. Not a troll. Have asked the school social worker for resources and they’re working on it. I was just genuinely interested in hearing from parents who have been there so that I could better understand what might be an underlying condition.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I would assume a disability or medical condition that has gone undiagnosed, and I would seek to involve both your child study team and your nurse. I would also recognize you need the parents, who are likely embarrassed and reacting in ways that look like they don't care, to be your allies and not to alienate them.

Kids this age are very motivated to be like their peers. That this kid is failing to do so is a sign that something is wrong, and you have a child find obligation under federal law.

-- also a teacher.

Not sure what a child study team is, never heard of one. The nurse is involved and made the same recommendation that I did…bring it up to pediatrician.

[Anonymous]

Barring a medical reason, it’s due to lazy parents.

[Anonymous]

I worked with a 5 year old like that once, child had developmental disabilities but the reason why they hadn’t been trained was lack of parent follow through. No other reason than dad worked away from home and mom was too busy playing games on the computer to be bothered. She knew this as she admitted that she was the reason the child hadn’t been trained.

I had to have my supervisees train when we were in the home (so like 3 hours, 5-10 times per week) and after a couple months the mom hopped on board. Not ideal but it worked, much more quickly than I had expected actually.

I’d ask parent if there’s a medical concern and if not then train in school and find a way to teach mom what you did so she can follow through at home. Some parents just need someone to guide them in the right direction or to see that their child is capable of something they didn’t expect them to be capable of.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would assume a disability or medical condition that has gone undiagnosed, and I would seek to involve both your child study team and your nurse. I would also recognize you need the parents, who are likely embarrassed and reacting in ways that look like they don't care, to be your allies and not to alienate them.

Kids this age are very motivated to be like their peers. That this kid is failing to do so is a sign that something is wrong, and you have a child find obligation under federal law.

-- also a teacher.

Not sure what a child study team is, never heard of one. The nurse is involved and made the same recommendation that I did…bring it up to pediatrician.

Whatever your state calls the team that you are required by law to report a child to when you suspect a disability.

[Anonymous]

Sometimes kids regress due to some sort of stress or change in their life. Ask if they can send him with pull-ups until it gets under control.

[Anonymous]

OP have you ever potty trained a child?

I've potty trained three and two were easy and one was not. I can tell you from experience that cleaning up accidents (or changing diapers) of an older child who is struggling to potty train is not easier than potty training a child. But it's sometimes what happens. In our case the child who potty trained late (not 5, but a little after age 4, still way later than the other two) has ADHD and there are a number of factors that make it harder for her than for other kids. She tends to be dismissive of bodily discomfort (also does this with pain) and will just power through rather than say something. She hates stopping what she's doing and it can cause anxiety to disrupt an activity in order to go to the bathroom. She also used to have major issues with using bathrooms outside our home, which would lead to her withholding poop, which would lead to constipation, which tends to make it even harder for kids to recognize the urge to urinate. It was very difficult but trust me when I say that we were very aware of these issues and working hard to address them.

Agree with the teacher PP who noted that what looks like indifference to you might be embarrassment, and will add that it could also be due to conditioning themselves to remain calm/neutral to the point of detachment regarding their child's potty issues, because a very late training child can be a massive form of stress and that can lead parents to become intense and stressed about it, which also tends to make pottying issues worse and lead to anxiety and withholding in the child. One thing we learned from the behavioral therapist we worked with was to adopt an approach of nonchalance, "it will happen when it happens," not because we were indifferent but because our child needed to internalize the idea that this process was in their control and that we had faith it would resolve. It took a great deal of willpower to do this.

Also agree with teacher PP that you need to view the parents as allies in this, and should absolutely reach out to resources at the school to come up with solutions that help the child in moving towards independence in this area without taking all your time away from the other children in class. By the way, whether the child has a diagnosis or not, this issue will qualify them for an IEP so if that hasn't been discussed, you should initiate that process.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I worked with a 5 year old like that once, child had developmental disabilities but the reason why they hadn’t been trained was lack of parent follow through. No other reason than dad worked away from home and mom was too busy playing games on the computer to be bothered. She knew this as she admitted that she was the reason the child hadn’t been trained.

I had to have my supervisees train when we were in the home (so like 3 hours, 5-10 times per week) and after a couple months the mom hopped on board. Not ideal but it worked, much more quickly than I had expected actually.

I’d ask parent if there’s a medical concern and if not then train in school and find a way to teach mom what you did so she can follow through at home. Some parents just need someone to guide them in the right direction or to see that their child is capable of something they didn’t expect them to be capable of.

Are you a social work? Who are "supervisees"? Were you working through this family through child protective services or what?

Did anyone offer assistance to the mom who was apparently numbing via screen use instead of parenting, potentially due to burnout, abuse, PTSD, depression, etc.? The way you talk about this family is strangely detached.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Barring a medical reason, it’s due to lazy parents.

I would say either a developmental delay or abusive parents. Probably the former, possibly the latter.

[Anonymous]

My friend's child only potty trained at age 10. He has a syndrome that is very rare and a symptom is developmental delay.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I worked with a 5 year old like that once, child had developmental disabilities but the reason why they hadn’t been trained was lack of parent follow through. No other reason than dad worked away from home and mom was too busy playing games on the computer to be bothered. She knew this as she admitted that she was the reason the child hadn’t been trained.

I had to have my supervisees train when we were in the home (so like 3 hours, 5-10 times per week) and after a couple months the mom hopped on board. Not ideal but it worked, much more quickly than I had expected actually.

I’d ask parent if there’s a medical concern and if not then train in school and find a way to teach mom what you did so she can follow through at home. Some parents just need someone to guide them in the right direction or to see that their child is capable of something they didn’t expect them to be capable of.

No, a kindergarten teacher does not have time to potty train a child in school. Preschool teachers can assist with training but K teachers cannot. The teacher needs to get assistance from the school's SpEd team and the nurse and there needs to be a plan in place with the parents to address the issue in order to help this child and minimize disruption in the class.

Also, just asking "is there a medical issue?" doesn't sound like it's good enough. They're maybe a medical issue the parent is unaware or doesn't even know how to ask the pediatrician about. Also with potty training, people have this idea that the only reason for delayed training (other than "lazy parents") is a physical disability, but kids with autism, ADHD, and anxiety all tend to train later and with more difficulty.

Also the teacher already noted there are speech and communication delays. Speech and communication are an important part of potty training because the child must learn to articulate the need to go. Again, as others have noted, this is a disability issue.

It's gross to me how many people in this thread are talking about this like it's obviously lazy parents when it's very clear this is a child with a disability of some kind. All the lazy parents I know still potty trained their kids by 5 because they were too lazy to keep changing diapers! Something else is going on here. This child needs help.

[Anonymous]

I'm trying to imagine what kind of school you work in that you would have to write a post on DCUM asking about this issue. Have you no resources at your school?

I worked with a K student who was not potty trained but school personnel (spec ed teacher and paras) worked with him from the first day of school. I believe his parents were also participating at home, it was a team effort. He was autistic and also had weak muscle issues.

We also potty trained a 10 yr old who was much more seriously disabled whose parents were unable to train mostly due to having four other kids at home. Not lazy, just overwhelmed.

I have also worked with 2nd and 3rd graders who wet their pants regularly or needed help wiping. We did what we could to help them learn what they needed to learn.

These types of issues are common at all elementary schools, OP needs to find who they need to consult with and get them on board with this student's problem. I've never heard of a school where the classroom teacher was expected to potty train students while teaching the curriculum and navigating the daily schedule.