AITA for not wanting DH to give MIL 4K to clear a debt

[Anonymous]

I hope he helps pay off his mom's debt.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes op you are a huge AH. Do you want her to work u til she dies? She’s 69!

Op here. She only worked for about 20 years, is super healthy, looks to be in her 50s, and could easily get a (desk) job in her field making 100K. She just doesn’t want to work anymore but didn’t save enough to live on. I’ve been working longer than she has in my mid forties.

She didn't save for old age because she was making sacrifices for her son.

You are a galactically huge AH.

No, she actually made a series of poor financial choices including multiple divorces, repeated custody battles, and staying at home for 20 years and not working.

custody battles for your husband?

Yes, she had two different marriages and two different husbands and fought each multiple times in court over custody of the kids from each marriage (she never got sole but wanted it). She also has just made a slew of poor financial decisions, has racked up lots of credit card/other debt, co-signed private loans for my DH when he was an undergrad (before required financial disclosures and counseling students get now) with high interest rates instead of getting public loans with lower interest rates that he could have gotten, has always leased new cars instead of buying cars, etc. She graduated college and from her masters program debt free. She stayed at home with kids for 20 years in part because she did it want to work. She’s inherited money from her parents and blown through it all. She has refused for decades to go to a financial planner despite everyone suggesting it. She didn’t even start investing in a 401k until her sixties.

As a person who graduated college with nothing but debt and got through it on Pell grants, worked really hard with my husband to crawl out of 100K in student loan debt, built up our savings, delayed child bearing til we could afford it, waited to buy our first house in our late 30s when we could actually afford it, and has worked full time for 20 years and is staring down 30 more years it feels wrong to me to give away nearly 10 percent of our cash savings to his MIL because of her poor decision when I have made so many sacrifices to try and put our family in a good financial position.

All the drama over a few thousand? Real issue is you are overspending if you only have a few thousand in savings.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:Op you are in your mid 40s and only have $40k in savings? Why are you so financially irresponsible?
If you must, loan her the money and then when he assets are sold, you get $4k off the top before the sister. You really are unbelievable.

Did you miss the part where I said my husband and I recently bought our first home? Also we have had several
Expensive home repairs lately. And we have spent the better part of our lives digging out of 100K of student loan debt. We are also paying for two kids in child care fill time. We have plenty in retirement, college funds, and we both are intentionally in jobs where we are earning pensions, and we have 15k in a brokerage. But 4k is not nothing to us.

That's fair. I think you need to let go of anger and judgment. The past is what it is. She chose to be a homemaker for 20 years and had custody battles. You worked her to get out of student debt and save responsibly. I get it. But you have what you have right now. She isn't going to work full time, forget that. Forgot choices that cannot be changed at this point.

I looked back at your OP. The positives: you say she is a kind person who sacrified a lot financially to help DH. She has 150k in a 401k that she has not touched in two years of retirement. That's a good sign - she's spending what she's earning in SS and not drawing down what she has. That doesn't scream reckless overspending to me. You acknowledge that the kitchen remodel was badly needed, and it sounds like she has been keeping up with the interest only payments, so she's not wrecking her credit. Her house is nearly paid off, she has no other debt that you know of, and she's going to be a paid babysitter for DIL soon. That's not THAT bad. It does seem plausible that if she get out from under this HELOC debt, she could live within her means and it will get easier as the house is paid off.

I agree with you that 4k is not nothing for you and that this can't be the start of paying her expenses regularly. So yes, I agree with your original statement "I feel like if he wants to do this, then there needs to be some transparency on her end,
Eg she allow my husband to take a full look at her finances and assets so there are no more surprises and he can help her plan, which he thinks is unreasonable." I do think that's reasonable. I just would try approacing this with a different attitude. We all can sense that you dislike and judge MIL, and I'm sure that's more apparent in person when taking into account your body and language and tone of voice.

I agree with the above poster. OP, I also feel I could have written your post where you wrote about getting through school on pell grants, working hard to pay off your debt, delaying having a family and buying a house, etc. I did all of those things too. Technically, you are in the right. MIL has made bad decisions with financial consequences. You are not required to bail her out. You say she is a kind person and it sounds like there are good family relationships. There is a kind and loving way to approach this too. I get that you feel strapped and stressed about money. You are in an expensive stage of life. If MIL really does provide child care for SIL's baby and SIL pays her, that could be a real positive. $4K in the long run isn't a huge amount so if you give it I think making it contingent on transparency now AND IN THE FUTURE is reasonable. When your DH and SIL talk to MIL, they can frame it as wanting to continue to help her navigate her finances, live her best life, etc. Make it clear they aren't stepping in to continue bailing her out. Maybe throw in compliments about how its grate she saved $150K in her 401K in only 7 years (you said she only started contributing in her 60s).

My BIL knows all the details of my mom's finances. My siblings and I would never have dreamed to ask the personal and specific questions he does, but there it is. I think he compliments her a lot about how great she has been at saving. She's always prided herself on being a frugal person, so she just loves it. My mom shared her account balances, SS, and pension amounts with me recently. I got the distinct impression she was looking for me to be impressed. She was also considering a very large, and in my opinion imprudent, purchase. She wanted validation that she could do anything she wanted. She could make the purchase but it would have required trade offs. I helped her see what the trade offs were, but she was very unhappy with me. In hindsight I could have been kinder in the conversation. I could have approached it from a tone of problem solving and "lets see how to make this all fit" to frame the trade offs she'd need to make. (Really, she can do what she wants, jut not all at the same time). Instead, I was triggered by her sudden extravagance and carelessness WRT money in the face of my childhood of her being unable to afford necessities, and took a tone of no, that's ridiculous, why would you ever consider that. In my defense, I was surprised I was so triggered and have been working on that, AND objectively it was not a financially prudent move (ever her friends were telling her this).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes op you are a huge AH. Do you want her to work u til she dies? She’s 69!

Op here. She only worked for about 20 years, is super healthy, looks to be in her 50s, and could easily get a (desk) job in her field making 100K. She just doesn’t want to work anymore but didn’t save enough to live on. I’ve been working longer than she has in my mid forties.

She didn't save for old age because she was making sacrifices for her son.

You are a galactically huge AH.

No, she actually made a series of poor financial choices including multiple divorces, repeated custody battles, and staying at home for 20 years and not working.

Staying home raising her children?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Every comment op makes worsens my perception of her.

+1.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I would not pay off the debt except if there was a lien on the house. I’d help with food and basics.

A HELOC is a lien on the house. And if she’s only making interest payments it’s getting bigger and bigger.

[Anonymous]

What a heartless DIL.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would not pay off the debt except if there was a lien on the house. I’d help with food and basics.

A HELOC is a lien on the house. And if she’s only making interest payments it’s getting bigger and bigger.

+1. Find a way to pay it off now.

[Anonymous]

I am on page 1 so forgive me if I repeat some of the arguments.
I come from a family where kids were basically thrown out at 18 to be on their own. It’s a tough way to grow up and I have always been a bit jealous of those families that take care of each other without much reservation.
So I think I know where you are coming from.
I think what would help you is if you let your DH give mom the money, and reserve an equal amount for just yourself (put it into your own account or something) to spend on anything he does not agree with.
This has helped a friend of mine whose H was spending frivolously and she had issues with it.

[Anonymous]

I don't think that I could ever respect my DH if he did not help his family in a situation like this and I don't think my DH could respect me if I fought him to prevent him helping his mom. And the same goes for helping my side of the family.
YTA.

low ses does not absolve you of being a pos.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What a heartless DIL.

She grew up in a family where it was every man for themself.

[Anonymous]

Plan A: MIL's kids and their spouses help her pay off the HELOC as a one-time gift. She stays in the house. Plan B: She continues to only pay interest, the debt balloons, and she ends up selling the house to pay it off. With nowhere to live, she moves in with one of her children.

[Anonymous]

This isn’t a MIL issue; it’s a marriage issue. Your focus needs to be on your communication with your DH and your marriage. He wants to give it to her, and that speaks well of him. You have concerns, and that’s ok. The conversation needs to be about how you both get what you want. He wants to help his mom and feel like a good son. You want to ensure your own nuclear family’s financial security. Both of you may have to compromise some, but there is no reason you can’t meet both of your needs.

Stop focusing on judging your MIL and start focusing on what you and your DH can do as a team to meet both your objectives. They are both achievable.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes op you are a huge AH. Do you want her to work u til she dies? She’s 69!

Op here. She only worked for about 20 years, is super healthy, looks to be in her 50s, and could easily get a (desk) job in her field making 100K. She just doesn’t want to work anymore but didn’t save enough to live on. I’ve been working longer than she has in my mid forties.

You're telling me that a 69 year old woman could "easily" get a job making $100k = but never earned enough to save more than $150k for retirement?

You're not really making sense, OP - and you are being really stingy and petty.

And that irritates me as a working adult who started working at age 15 and will be working for probably 30 more years.

I don’t judge you but you are just hurting because you were forced to work since 15 yo and no one ever helped you since. This is my understanding.
Just something to think about…

[Anonymous]

My concern would be less with this specific 4K payment and more with the precedent that it could set. Will she expect money annually? Cost of living goes up, I need 5k this year. That would be my concern.