RMIB vs BCC IB

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is a ridiculous “discussion” sorry OP

yes, someone comparing private IB to a public magnet in a large public.

I think OP's question was answered in pg 1 of the thread.

Summary:

RMIB is better; has a high diploma rate; peer group is more higher achieving. The students start their magnet level classes (not IB, but magnet level) in 9th grade; example, RMS English is only open to RMIB magnet students.

BCC's program starts in 11th grade. 9th and 10th grades have classes with everyone else.

What do RMIB students do for 9th and 10th grade? The Diploma Program starts in 11th.

There are specific courses in 9th/10th that are only available to IB magnet students, like RMS English 9. They also take several AP classes.

Again, the program only has 100 seats and there are 8,000 potential applicants so odds are very slim of getting admitted..

Again, unless you have an extremely advanced kid who is strong all around. Those of us who do, know when we have a kid who has an extremely high chance of getting accepted.

The world is more random than you apparently believe.

Right. Kids that got into multiple programs did so randomly. Repeatedly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://ww2.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/data/LAR-charts/IB-Exam-by-Subject.html

You're welcome

You'll see that it is the specific teacher for specific subjects that matter more than the school program itself.

Not being snarky...but I really do not see how the chart shows me that at all.

Most schools have only one teacher for each IB course. The teacher may teach multiple sections, but generally there is one. For IB Biology, the mean IB score at RM is a 5.2. At BCC it's a 4.2. At BCC, the mean physics score is a 5.0; it's a 5.3 at RM. Their english scores are equivalent.

So yeah, RM seems to be generally better in all areas.

Personally, I think this difference is more a function of the fact that to get into RM, you have to take a test. Only the people who do very well on the test are selected to go to RM. Thus, those at RM tend to do better on IB tests. By contrast, at BCC there are kids who are in full IB taking tests, kids who are just taking a 1 or 2 IB classes, etc. for the vast majority of kids who are decent test-takers in the IB program, there is, I would be willing to bet, not a significant difference between their test scores and RM.

RM is good. BCC is good. Puck a place where you want to live and you and your kid can make friends and do fun things outside if school. Both schools are good.

What? That is not true. My kid is in the RMIB right now and there was no test.

I believe that every class before the 2025 graduating class had to take the Cogat as part of the admissions process -- so the IB test results currently reported are all based on kids who took the Cogat. I don't think that the cogat has anything at all in common with an IB assessment, so I don't agree with PP's point, but it is accurate that the kids who have received the diploma to date took a test to get into RMIB. They ditched the test during the pandemic because they didn't want all those kids in a room, and have not brought it back.

So, perfect natural experiment - let’s check back in 4 years and compare IB scores to 4 years earlier and see if stacking the IB program with kids who test well improve IB scores? Of course, if the scores go down a bit everyone will yell that dropping the test allowed MCPS to put “less qualified” kids in the program, which IMO, as long time test prep tutor, is not the right conclusion.

Or whether stacking the IB program with kids whose parents paid for cogoat prep versus smarter kids whose parents can't afford that.

Grades are very subjective. So, what other measure should they use to see who is "qualified" to be admitted into a very rigorous program?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is a ridiculous “discussion” sorry OP

yes, someone comparing private IB to a public magnet in a large public.

I think OP's question was answered in pg 1 of the thread.

Summary:

RMIB is better; has a high diploma rate; peer group is more higher achieving. The students start their magnet level classes (not IB, but magnet level) in 9th grade; example, RMS English is only open to RMIB magnet students.

BCC's program starts in 11th grade. 9th and 10th grades have classes with everyone else.

What do RMIB students do for 9th and 10th grade? The Diploma Program starts in 11th.

There are specific courses in 9th/10th that are only available to IB magnet students, like RMS English 9. They also take several AP classes.

Again, the program only has 100 seats and there are 8,000 potential applicants so odds are very slim of getting admitted..

Again, unless you have an extremely advanced kid who is strong all around. Those of us who do, know when we have a kid who has an extremely high chance of getting accepted.

Again, many highly qualified kids are rejected every year.

I’m sorry your kid got rejected. My kid found it very easy to get accepted (and turned it down, btw) and I had no doubt he would be offered a place. Like I said, those of us with very advanced kids know. I also don’t think it was very difficult for him to get a place.

How nice for you. Have you heard of the "just world hypothesis"? Maybe you could ask your very advanced kid about it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is a ridiculous “discussion” sorry OP

yes, someone comparing private IB to a public magnet in a large public.

I think OP's question was answered in pg 1 of the thread.

Summary:

RMIB is better; has a high diploma rate; peer group is more higher achieving. The students start their magnet level classes (not IB, but magnet level) in 9th grade; example, RMS English is only open to RMIB magnet students.

BCC's program starts in 11th grade. 9th and 10th grades have classes with everyone else.

What do RMIB students do for 9th and 10th grade? The Diploma Program starts in 11th.

There are specific courses in 9th/10th that are only available to IB magnet students, like RMS English 9. They also take several AP classes.

Again, the program only has 100 seats and there are 8,000 potential applicants so odds are very slim of getting admitted..

Again, unless you have an extremely advanced kid who is strong all around. Those of us who do, know when we have a kid who has an extremely high chance of getting accepted.

Again, many highly qualified kids are rejected every year.

I’m sorry your kid got rejected. My kid found it very easy to get accepted (and turned it down, btw) and I had no doubt he would be offered a place. Like I said, those of us with very advanced kids know. I also don’t think it was very difficult for him to get a place.

My kid never applied since they're into STEM, and are currently at Blair SMCS. Nevertheless, these programs are fairly competitive, and half the applicants have perfect stats so it often comes down to a coin flip.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://ww2.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/data/LAR-charts/IB-Exam-by-Subject.html

You're welcome

You'll see that it is the specific teacher for specific subjects that matter more than the school program itself.

Not being snarky...but I really do not see how the chart shows me that at all.

Most schools have only one teacher for each IB course. The teacher may teach multiple sections, but generally there is one. For IB Biology, the mean IB score at RM is a 5.2. At BCC it's a 4.2. At BCC, the mean physics score is a 5.0; it's a 5.3 at RM. Their english scores are equivalent.

So yeah, RM seems to be generally better in all areas.

Personally, I think this difference is more a function of the fact that to get into RM, you have to take a test. Only the people who do very well on the test are selected to go to RM. Thus, those at RM tend to do better on IB tests. By contrast, at BCC there are kids who are in full IB taking tests, kids who are just taking a 1 or 2 IB classes, etc. for the vast majority of kids who are decent test-takers in the IB program, there is, I would be willing to bet, not a significant difference between their test scores and RM.

RM is good. BCC is good. Puck a place where you want to live and you and your kid can make friends and do fun things outside if school. Both schools are good.

What? That is not true. My kid is in the RMIB right now and there was no test.

I believe that every class before the 2025 graduating class had to take the Cogat as part of the admissions process -- so the IB test results currently reported are all based on kids who took the Cogat. I don't think that the cogat has anything at all in common with an IB assessment, so I don't agree with PP's point, but it is accurate that the kids who have received the diploma to date took a test to get into RMIB. They ditched the test during the pandemic because they didn't want all those kids in a room, and have not brought it back.

So, perfect natural experiment - let’s check back in 4 years and compare IB scores to 4 years earlier and see if stacking the IB program with kids who test well improve IB scores? Of course, if the scores go down a bit everyone will yell that dropping the test allowed MCPS to put “less qualified” kids in the program, which IMO, as long time test prep tutor, is not the right conclusion.

Or whether stacking the IB program with kids whose parents paid for cogoat prep versus smarter kids whose parents can't afford that.

Grades are very subjective. So, what other measure should they use to see who is "qualified" to be admitted into a very rigorous program?

It isn't any more rigorous than the IB program at any of the other MCPS high schools. It is literally the same IB program. What my kid did to be admitted into the IB program at our local high school is live within the service area of our local high school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://ww2.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/data/LAR-charts/IB-Exam-by-Subject.html

You're welcome

You'll see that it is the specific teacher for specific subjects that matter more than the school program itself.

Not being snarky...but I really do not see how the chart shows me that at all.

Most schools have only one teacher for each IB course. The teacher may teach multiple sections, but generally there is one. For IB Biology, the mean IB score at RM is a 5.2. At BCC it's a 4.2. At BCC, the mean physics score is a 5.0; it's a 5.3 at RM. Their english scores are equivalent.

So yeah, RM seems to be generally better in all areas.

Personally, I think this difference is more a function of the fact that to get into RM, you have to take a test. Only the people who do very well on the test are selected to go to RM. Thus, those at RM tend to do better on IB tests. By contrast, at BCC there are kids who are in full IB taking tests, kids who are just taking a 1 or 2 IB classes, etc. for the vast majority of kids who are decent test-takers in the IB program, there is, I would be willing to bet, not a significant difference between their test scores and RM.

RM is good. BCC is good. Puck a place where you want to live and you and your kid can make friends and do fun things outside if school. Both schools are good.

What? That is not true. My kid is in the RMIB right now and there was no test.

I believe that every class before the 2025 graduating class had to take the Cogat as part of the admissions process -- so the IB test results currently reported are all based on kids who took the Cogat. I don't think that the cogat has anything at all in common with an IB assessment, so I don't agree with PP's point, but it is accurate that the kids who have received the diploma to date took a test to get into RMIB. They ditched the test during the pandemic because they didn't want all those kids in a room, and have not brought it back.

So, perfect natural experiment - let’s check back in 4 years and compare IB scores to 4 years earlier and see if stacking the IB program with kids who test well improve IB scores? Of course, if the scores go down a bit everyone will yell that dropping the test allowed MCPS to put “less qualified” kids in the program, which IMO, as long time test prep tutor, is not the right conclusion.

Or whether stacking the IB program with kids whose parents paid for cogoat prep versus smarter kids whose parents can't afford that.

When they gave the CogAT, UMC parents typically prepared their kids. Maybe it was buying a book off amazon or hiring a tutor. Regardless, understanding the question format and gaining a level of comfort with the questions makes a difference. I remember when my oldest took it for CES when they were 7. They had perfect scores on two sections but on the 3rd missed 4. I asked them about it later they said oh I ran out of time and just guessed for the last 3 on that section. Sure, they still scored 99% but would've done better if they had learned how to better manage their time which is a teachable skill. Unfortunately, many parents who are less up on these things don't know to do any of this which puts their often gifted children at a clear disadvantage. This is why I feel getting rid of these roadblocks will result in a fairer and often stronger selection,.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://ww2.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/data/LAR-charts/IB-Exam-by-Subject.html

You're welcome

You'll see that it is the specific teacher for specific subjects that matter more than the school program itself.

Not being snarky...but I really do not see how the chart shows me that at all.

Most schools have only one teacher for each IB course. The teacher may teach multiple sections, but generally there is one. For IB Biology, the mean IB score at RM is a 5.2. At BCC it's a 4.2. At BCC, the mean physics score is a 5.0; it's a 5.3 at RM. Their english scores are equivalent.

So yeah, RM seems to be generally better in all areas.

Personally, I think this difference is more a function of the fact that to get into RM, you have to take a test. Only the people who do very well on the test are selected to go to RM. Thus, those at RM tend to do better on IB tests. By contrast, at BCC there are kids who are in full IB taking tests, kids who are just taking a 1 or 2 IB classes, etc. for the vast majority of kids who are decent test-takers in the IB program, there is, I would be willing to bet, not a significant difference between their test scores and RM.

RM is good. BCC is good. Puck a place where you want to live and you and your kid can make friends and do fun things outside if school. Both schools are good.

What? That is not true. My kid is in the RMIB right now and there was no test.

I believe that every class before the 2025 graduating class had to take the Cogat as part of the admissions process -- so the IB test results currently reported are all based on kids who took the Cogat. I don't think that the cogat has anything at all in common with an IB assessment, so I don't agree with PP's point, but it is accurate that the kids who have received the diploma to date took a test to get into RMIB. They ditched the test during the pandemic because they didn't want all those kids in a room, and have not brought it back.

So, perfect natural experiment - let’s check back in 4 years and compare IB scores to 4 years earlier and see if stacking the IB program with kids who test well improve IB scores? Of course, if the scores go down a bit everyone will yell that dropping the test allowed MCPS to put “less qualified” kids in the program, which IMO, as long time test prep tutor, is not the right conclusion.

Or whether stacking the IB program with kids whose parents paid for cogoat prep versus smarter kids whose parents can't afford that.

Grades are very subjective. So, what other measure should they use to see who is "qualified" to be admitted into a very rigorous program?

It isn't any more rigorous than the IB program at any of the other MCPS high schools. It is literally the same IB program. What my kid did to be admitted into the IB program at our local high school is live within the service area of our local high school.

1. the comment about not using cogat is not about BCC vs RMIB, but about what other academic measure should be used to admit students into a very academically rigorous magnet program.
2. It certainly draws in higher performing kids since the diploma rate is higher at RM than at BCC.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://ww2.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/data/LAR-charts/IB-Exam-by-Subject.html

You're welcome

You'll see that it is the specific teacher for specific subjects that matter more than the school program itself.

Not being snarky...but I really do not see how the chart shows me that at all.

Most schools have only one teacher for each IB course. The teacher may teach multiple sections, but generally there is one. For IB Biology, the mean IB score at RM is a 5.2. At BCC it's a 4.2. At BCC, the mean physics score is a 5.0; it's a 5.3 at RM. Their english scores are equivalent.

So yeah, RM seems to be generally better in all areas.

Personally, I think this difference is more a function of the fact that to get into RM, you have to take a test. Only the people who do very well on the test are selected to go to RM. Thus, those at RM tend to do better on IB tests. By contrast, at BCC there are kids who are in full IB taking tests, kids who are just taking a 1 or 2 IB classes, etc. for the vast majority of kids who are decent test-takers in the IB program, there is, I would be willing to bet, not a significant difference between their test scores and RM.

RM is good. BCC is good. Puck a place where you want to live and you and your kid can make friends and do fun things outside if school. Both schools are good.

What? That is not true. My kid is in the RMIB right now and there was no test.

I believe that every class before the 2025 graduating class had to take the Cogat as part of the admissions process -- so the IB test results currently reported are all based on kids who took the Cogat. I don't think that the cogat has anything at all in common with an IB assessment, so I don't agree with PP's point, but it is accurate that the kids who have received the diploma to date took a test to get into RMIB. They ditched the test during the pandemic because they didn't want all those kids in a room, and have not brought it back.

So, perfect natural experiment - let’s check back in 4 years and compare IB scores to 4 years earlier and see if stacking the IB program with kids who test well improve IB scores? Of course, if the scores go down a bit everyone will yell that dropping the test allowed MCPS to put “less qualified” kids in the program, which IMO, as long time test prep tutor, is not the right conclusion.

Or whether stacking the IB program with kids whose parents paid for cogoat prep versus smarter kids whose parents can't afford that.

When they gave the CogAT, UMC parents typically prepared their kids. Maybe it was buying a book off amazon or hiring a tutor. Regardless, understanding the question format and gaining a level of comfort with the questions makes a difference. I remember when my oldest took it for CES when they were 7. They had perfect scores on two sections but on the 3rd missed 4. I asked them about it later they said oh I ran out of time and just guessed for the last 3 on that section. Sure, they still scored 99% but would've done better if they had learned how to better manage their time which is a teachable skill. Unfortunately, many parents who are less up on these things don't know to do any of this which puts their often gifted children at a clear disadvantage. This is why I feel getting rid of these roadblocks will result in a fairer and often stronger selection,.

The solution is not to get rid of testing, but to provide everyone the same test prep. But everyone who wants one a cogat test book. I don't mind paying taxes for that.

But, there needs to be some academic measure to determine admissions. Otherwise, it effectively becomes a lottery because grades are very subjective. And if you let in students who are not prepared for such rigor, the drop out rate of the program will be very high. A few students every year already drop out of RMIB due to the time commitment, and some, because it's too hard. Do you really think pushing kids who are not ready into such programs is great for their moral?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://ww2.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/data/LAR-charts/IB-Exam-by-Subject.html

You're welcome

You'll see that it is the specific teacher for specific subjects that matter more than the school program itself.

Not being snarky...but I really do not see how the chart shows me that at all.

Most schools have only one teacher for each IB course. The teacher may teach multiple sections, but generally there is one. For IB Biology, the mean IB score at RM is a 5.2. At BCC it's a 4.2. At BCC, the mean physics score is a 5.0; it's a 5.3 at RM. Their english scores are equivalent.

So yeah, RM seems to be generally better in all areas.

Personally, I think this difference is more a function of the fact that to get into RM, you have to take a test. Only the people who do very well on the test are selected to go to RM. Thus, those at RM tend to do better on IB tests. By contrast, at BCC there are kids who are in full IB taking tests, kids who are just taking a 1 or 2 IB classes, etc. for the vast majority of kids who are decent test-takers in the IB program, there is, I would be willing to bet, not a significant difference between their test scores and RM.

RM is good. BCC is good. Puck a place where you want to live and you and your kid can make friends and do fun things outside if school. Both schools are good.

What? That is not true. My kid is in the RMIB right now and there was no test.

I believe that every class before the 2025 graduating class had to take the Cogat as part of the admissions process -- so the IB test results currently reported are all based on kids who took the Cogat. I don't think that the cogat has anything at all in common with an IB assessment, so I don't agree with PP's point, but it is accurate that the kids who have received the diploma to date took a test to get into RMIB. They ditched the test during the pandemic because they didn't want all those kids in a room, and have not brought it back.

So, perfect natural experiment - let’s check back in 4 years and compare IB scores to 4 years earlier and see if stacking the IB program with kids who test well improve IB scores? Of course, if the scores go down a bit everyone will yell that dropping the test allowed MCPS to put “less qualified” kids in the program, which IMO, as long time test prep tutor, is not the right conclusion.

Or whether stacking the IB program with kids whose parents paid for cogoat prep versus smarter kids whose parents can't afford that.

When they gave the CogAT, UMC parents typically prepared their kids. Maybe it was buying a book off amazon or hiring a tutor. Regardless, understanding the question format and gaining a level of comfort with the questions makes a difference. I remember when my oldest took it for CES when they were 7. They had perfect scores on two sections but on the 3rd missed 4. I asked them about it later they said oh I ran out of time and just guessed for the last 3 on that section. Sure, they still scored 99% but would've done better if they had learned how to better manage their time which is a teachable skill. Unfortunately, many parents who are less up on these things don't know to do any of this which puts their often gifted children at a clear disadvantage. This is why I feel getting rid of these roadblocks will result in a fairer and often stronger selection,.

The solution is not to get rid of testing, but to provide everyone the same test prep. But everyone who wants one a cogat test book. I don't mind paying taxes for that.

But, there needs to be some academic measure to determine admissions. Otherwise, it effectively becomes a lottery because grades are very subjective. And if you let in students who are not prepared for such rigor, the drop out rate of the program will be very high. A few students every year already drop out of RMIB due to the time commitment, and some, because it's too hard. Do you really think pushing kids who are not ready into such programs is great for their moral?

Yes, let the prep arms race commence! Maybe Curie will come to MD so we can buy the test in advance!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://ww2.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/data/LAR-charts/IB-Exam-by-Subject.html

You're welcome

You'll see that it is the specific teacher for specific subjects that matter more than the school program itself.

Not being snarky...but I really do not see how the chart shows me that at all.

Most schools have only one teacher for each IB course. The teacher may teach multiple sections, but generally there is one. For IB Biology, the mean IB score at RM is a 5.2. At BCC it's a 4.2. At BCC, the mean physics score is a 5.0; it's a 5.3 at RM. Their english scores are equivalent.

So yeah, RM seems to be generally better in all areas.

They already use multiple measures like grades, map and an essay. Not sure how adding a gamble test will really help.

Personally, I think this difference is more a function of the fact that to get into RM, you have to take a test. Only the people who do very well on the test are selected to go to RM. Thus, those at RM tend to do better on IB tests. By contrast, at BCC there are kids who are in full IB taking tests, kids who are just taking a 1 or 2 IB classes, etc. for the vast majority of kids who are decent test-takers in the IB program, there is, I would be willing to bet, not a significant difference between their test scores and RM.

RM is good. BCC is good. Puck a place where you want to live and you and your kid can make friends and do fun things outside if school. Both schools are good.

What? That is not true. My kid is in the RMIB right now and there was no test.

I believe that every class before the 2025 graduating class had to take the Cogat as part of the admissions process -- so the IB test results currently reported are all based on kids who took the Cogat. I don't think that the cogat has anything at all in common with an IB assessment, so I don't agree with PP's point, but it is accurate that the kids who have received the diploma to date took a test to get into RMIB. They ditched the test during the pandemic because they didn't want all those kids in a room, and have not brought it back.

So, perfect natural experiment - let’s check back in 4 years and compare IB scores to 4 years earlier and see if stacking the IB program with kids who test well improve IB scores? Of course, if the scores go down a bit everyone will yell that dropping the test allowed MCPS to put “less qualified” kids in the program, which IMO, as long time test prep tutor, is not the right conclusion.

Or whether stacking the IB program with kids whose parents paid for cogoat prep versus smarter kids whose parents can't afford that.

When they gave the CogAT, UMC parents typically prepared their kids. Maybe it was buying a book off amazon or hiring a tutor. Regardless, understanding the question format and gaining a level of comfort with the questions makes a difference. I remember when my oldest took it for CES when they were 7. They had perfect scores on two sections but on the 3rd missed 4. I asked them about it later they said oh I ran out of time and just guessed for the last 3 on that section. Sure, they still scored 99% but would've done better if they had learned how to better manage their time which is a teachable skill. Unfortunately, many parents who are less up on these things don't know to do any of this which puts their often gifted children at a clear disadvantage. This is why I feel getting rid of these roadblocks will result in a fairer and often stronger selection,.

The solution is not to get rid of testing, but to provide everyone the same test prep. But everyone who wants one a cogat test book. I don't mind paying taxes for that.

But, there needs to be some academic measure to determine admissions. Otherwise, it effectively becomes a lottery because grades are very subjective. And if you let in students who are not prepared for such rigor, the drop out rate of the program will be very high. A few students every year already drop out of RMIB due to the time commitment, and some, because it's too hard. Do you really think pushing kids who are not ready into such programs is great for their moral?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://ww2.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/data/LAR-charts/IB-Exam-by-Subject.html

You're welcome

You'll see that it is the specific teacher for specific subjects that matter more than the school program itself.

Not being snarky...but I really do not see how the chart shows me that at all.

Most schools have only one teacher for each IB course. The teacher may teach multiple sections, but generally there is one. For IB Biology, the mean IB score at RM is a 5.2. At BCC it's a 4.2. At BCC, the mean physics score is a 5.0; it's a 5.3 at RM. Their english scores are equivalent.

So yeah, RM seems to be generally better in all areas.

Personally, I think this difference is more a function of the fact that to get into RM, you have to take a test. Only the people who do very well on the test are selected to go to RM. Thus, those at RM tend to do better on IB tests. By contrast, at BCC there are kids who are in full IB taking tests, kids who are just taking a 1 or 2 IB classes, etc. for the vast majority of kids who are decent test-takers in the IB program, there is, I would be willing to bet, not a significant difference between their test scores and RM.

RM is good. BCC is good. Puck a place where you want to live and you and your kid can make friends and do fun things outside if school. Both schools are good.

What? That is not true. My kid is in the RMIB right now and there was no test.

I believe that every class before the 2025 graduating class had to take the Cogat as part of the admissions process -- so the IB test results currently reported are all based on kids who took the Cogat. I don't think that the cogat has anything at all in common with an IB assessment, so I don't agree with PP's point, but it is accurate that the kids who have received the diploma to date took a test to get into RMIB. They ditched the test during the pandemic because they didn't want all those kids in a room, and have not brought it back.

So, perfect natural experiment - let’s check back in 4 years and compare IB scores to 4 years earlier and see if stacking the IB program with kids who test well improve IB scores? Of course, if the scores go down a bit everyone will yell that dropping the test allowed MCPS to put “less qualified” kids in the program, which IMO, as long time test prep tutor, is not the right conclusion.

Or whether stacking the IB program with kids whose parents paid for cogoat prep versus smarter kids whose parents can't afford that.

When they gave the CogAT, UMC parents typically prepared their kids. Maybe it was buying a book off amazon or hiring a tutor. Regardless, understanding the question format and gaining a level of comfort with the questions makes a difference. I remember when my oldest took it for CES when they were 7. They had perfect scores on two sections but on the 3rd missed 4. I asked them about it later they said oh I ran out of time and just guessed for the last 3 on that section. Sure, they still scored 99% but would've done better if they had learned how to better manage their time which is a teachable skill. Unfortunately, many parents who are less up on these things don't know to do any of this which puts their often gifted children at a clear disadvantage. This is why I feel getting rid of these roadblocks will result in a fairer and often stronger selection,.

The solution is not to get rid of testing, but to provide everyone the same test prep. But everyone who wants one a cogat test book. I don't mind paying taxes for that.

But, there needs to be some academic measure to determine admissions. Otherwise, it effectively becomes a lottery because grades are very subjective. And if you let in students who are not prepared for such rigor, the drop out rate of the program will be very high. A few students every year already drop out of RMIB due to the time commitment, and some, because it's too hard. Do you really think pushing kids who are not ready into such programs is great for their moral?

There already are several academic measures including grades, standardized test scores, and an essay. Adding a gameable test won't really help. Instead, I'd suggest finding a way to include teacher recs in a way that offsets racial bias.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://ww2.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/data/LAR-charts/IB-Exam-by-Subject.html

You're welcome

You'll see that it is the specific teacher for specific subjects that matter more than the school program itself.

Not being snarky...but I really do not see how the chart shows me that at all.

Most schools have only one teacher for each IB course. The teacher may teach multiple sections, but generally there is one. For IB Biology, the mean IB score at RM is a 5.2. At BCC it's a 4.2. At BCC, the mean physics score is a 5.0; it's a 5.3 at RM. Their english scores are equivalent.

So yeah, RM seems to be generally better in all areas.

Personally, I think this difference is more a function of the fact that to get into RM, you have to take a test. Only the people who do very well on the test are selected to go to RM. Thus, those at RM tend to do better on IB tests. By contrast, at BCC there are kids who are in full IB taking tests, kids who are just taking a 1 or 2 IB classes, etc. for the vast majority of kids who are decent test-takers in the IB program, there is, I would be willing to bet, not a significant difference between their test scores and RM.

RM is good. BCC is good. Puck a place where you want to live and you and your kid can make friends and do fun things outside if school. Both schools are good.

What? That is not true. My kid is in the RMIB right now and there was no test.

I believe that every class before the 2025 graduating class had to take the Cogat as part of the admissions process -- so the IB test results currently reported are all based on kids who took the Cogat. I don't think that the cogat has anything at all in common with an IB assessment, so I don't agree with PP's point, but it is accurate that the kids who have received the diploma to date took a test to get into RMIB. They ditched the test during the pandemic because they didn't want all those kids in a room, and have not brought it back.

So, perfect natural experiment - let’s check back in 4 years and compare IB scores to 4 years earlier and see if stacking the IB program with kids who test well improve IB scores? Of course, if the scores go down a bit everyone will yell that dropping the test allowed MCPS to put “less qualified” kids in the program, which IMO, as long time test prep tutor, is not the right conclusion.

Or whether stacking the IB program with kids whose parents paid for cogoat prep versus smarter kids whose parents can't afford that.

When they gave the CogAT, UMC parents typically prepared their kids. Maybe it was buying a book off amazon or hiring a tutor. Regardless, understanding the question format and gaining a level of comfort with the questions makes a difference. I remember when my oldest took it for CES when they were 7. They had perfect scores on two sections but on the 3rd missed 4. I asked them about it later they said oh I ran out of time and just guessed for the last 3 on that section. Sure, they still scored 99% but would've done better if they had learned how to better manage their time which is a teachable skill. Unfortunately, many parents who are less up on these things don't know to do any of this which puts their often gifted children at a clear disadvantage. This is why I feel getting rid of these roadblocks will result in a fairer and often stronger selection,.

The solution is not to get rid of testing, but to provide everyone the same test prep. But everyone who wants one a cogat test book. I don't mind paying taxes for that.

But, there needs to be some academic measure to determine admissions. Otherwise, it effectively becomes a lottery because grades are very subjective. And if you let in students who are not prepared for such rigor, the drop out rate of the program will be very high. A few students every year already drop out of RMIB due to the time commitment, and some, because it's too hard. Do you really think pushing kids who are not ready into such programs is great for their moral?

There already are several academic measures including grades, standardized test scores, and an essay. Adding a gameable test won't really help. Instead, I'd suggest finding a way to include teacher recs in a way that offsets racial bias.

1. grades are subjective
2. standardized tests? What other standardized test do they use other than cogat? MAP? MAP tests show content learned. That is also not a great measure. What if a student had a bad teacher and didn't teach the content well? Sucks for those kids, I guess.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://ww2.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/data/LAR-charts/IB-Exam-by-Subject.html

You're welcome

You'll see that it is the specific teacher for specific subjects that matter more than the school program itself.

Not being snarky...but I really do not see how the chart shows me that at all.

Most schools have only one teacher for each IB course. The teacher may teach multiple sections, but generally there is one. For IB Biology, the mean IB score at RM is a 5.2. At BCC it's a 4.2. At BCC, the mean physics score is a 5.0; it's a 5.3 at RM. Their english scores are equivalent.

So yeah, RM seems to be generally better in all areas.

Personally, I think this difference is more a function of the fact that to get into RM, you have to take a test. Only the people who do very well on the test are selected to go to RM. Thus, those at RM tend to do better on IB tests. By contrast, at BCC there are kids who are in full IB taking tests, kids who are just taking a 1 or 2 IB classes, etc. for the vast majority of kids who are decent test-takers in the IB program, there is, I would be willing to bet, not a significant difference between their test scores and RM.

RM is good. BCC is good. Puck a place where you want to live and you and your kid can make friends and do fun things outside if school. Both schools are good.

What? That is not true. My kid is in the RMIB right now and there was no test.

I believe that every class before the 2025 graduating class had to take the Cogat as part of the admissions process -- so the IB test results currently reported are all based on kids who took the Cogat. I don't think that the cogat has anything at all in common with an IB assessment, so I don't agree with PP's point, but it is accurate that the kids who have received the diploma to date took a test to get into RMIB. They ditched the test during the pandemic because they didn't want all those kids in a room, and have not brought it back.

So, perfect natural experiment - let’s check back in 4 years and compare IB scores to 4 years earlier and see if stacking the IB program with kids who test well improve IB scores? Of course, if the scores go down a bit everyone will yell that dropping the test allowed MCPS to put “less qualified” kids in the program, which IMO, as long time test prep tutor, is not the right conclusion.

Or whether stacking the IB program with kids whose parents paid for cogoat prep versus smarter kids whose parents can't afford that.

When they gave the CogAT, UMC parents typically prepared their kids. Maybe it was buying a book off amazon or hiring a tutor. Regardless, understanding the question format and gaining a level of comfort with the questions makes a difference. I remember when my oldest took it for CES when they were 7. They had perfect scores on two sections but on the 3rd missed 4. I asked them about it later they said oh I ran out of time and just guessed for the last 3 on that section. Sure, they still scored 99% but would've done better if they had learned how to better manage their time which is a teachable skill. Unfortunately, many parents who are less up on these things don't know to do any of this which puts their often gifted children at a clear disadvantage. This is why I feel getting rid of these roadblocks will result in a fairer and often stronger selection,.

The solution is not to get rid of testing, but to provide everyone the same test prep. But everyone who wants one a cogat test book. I don't mind paying taxes for that.

But, there needs to be some academic measure to determine admissions. Otherwise, it effectively becomes a lottery because grades are very subjective. And if you let in students who are not prepared for such rigor, the drop out rate of the program will be very high. A few students every year already drop out of RMIB due to the time commitment, and some, because it's too hard. Do you really think pushing kids who are not ready into such programs is great for their moral?

Yes, let the prep arms race commence! Maybe Curie will come to MD so we can buy the test in advance!

So, you are going to tell your kid not to prep for a unit test at school? Don't study because it's an arms race? How is studying and prepping for an entrance exam any different?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://ww2.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/data/LAR-charts/IB-Exam-by-Subject.html

You're welcome

You'll see that it is the specific teacher for specific subjects that matter more than the school program itself.

Not being snarky...but I really do not see how the chart shows me that at all.

Most schools have only one teacher for each IB course. The teacher may teach multiple sections, but generally there is one. For IB Biology, the mean IB score at RM is a 5.2. At BCC it's a 4.2. At BCC, the mean physics score is a 5.0; it's a 5.3 at RM. Their english scores are equivalent.

So yeah, RM seems to be generally better in all areas.

Personally, I think this difference is more a function of the fact that to get into RM, you have to take a test. Only the people who do very well on the test are selected to go to RM. Thus, those at RM tend to do better on IB tests. By contrast, at BCC there are kids who are in full IB taking tests, kids who are just taking a 1 or 2 IB classes, etc. for the vast majority of kids who are decent test-takers in the IB program, there is, I would be willing to bet, not a significant difference between their test scores and RM.

RM is good. BCC is good. Puck a place where you want to live and you and your kid can make friends and do fun things outside if school. Both schools are good.

What? That is not true. My kid is in the RMIB right now and there was no test.

I believe that every class before the 2025 graduating class had to take the Cogat as part of the admissions process -- so the IB test results currently reported are all based on kids who took the Cogat. I don't think that the cogat has anything at all in common with an IB assessment, so I don't agree with PP's point, but it is accurate that the kids who have received the diploma to date took a test to get into RMIB. They ditched the test during the pandemic because they didn't want all those kids in a room, and have not brought it back.

So, perfect natural experiment - let’s check back in 4 years and compare IB scores to 4 years earlier and see if stacking the IB program with kids who test well improve IB scores? Of course, if the scores go down a bit everyone will yell that dropping the test allowed MCPS to put “less qualified” kids in the program, which IMO, as long time test prep tutor, is not the right conclusion.

Or whether stacking the IB program with kids whose parents paid for cogoat prep versus smarter kids whose parents can't afford that.

Grades are very subjective. So, what other measure should they use to see who is "qualified" to be admitted into a very rigorous program?

It isn't any more rigorous than the IB program at any of the other MCPS high schools. It is literally the same IB program. What my kid did to be admitted into the IB program at our local high school is live within the service area of our local high school.

1. the comment about not using cogat is not about BCC vs RMIB, but about what other academic measure should be used to admit students into a very academically rigorous magnet program.
2. It certainly draws in higher performing kids since the diploma rate is higher at RM than at BCC.

To repeat: the program is exactly as "very academically rigorous" at every other MCPS high school with IB, as at Richard Montgomery. It is exactly the same IB program.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://ww2.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/data/LAR-charts/IB-Exam-by-Subject.html

You're welcome

You'll see that it is the specific teacher for specific subjects that matter more than the school program itself.

Not being snarky...but I really do not see how the chart shows me that at all.

Most schools have only one teacher for each IB course. The teacher may teach multiple sections, but generally there is one. For IB Biology, the mean IB score at RM is a 5.2. At BCC it's a 4.2. At BCC, the mean physics score is a 5.0; it's a 5.3 at RM. Their english scores are equivalent.

So yeah, RM seems to be generally better in all areas.

Personally, I think this difference is more a function of the fact that to get into RM, you have to take a test. Only the people who do very well on the test are selected to go to RM. Thus, those at RM tend to do better on IB tests. By contrast, at BCC there are kids who are in full IB taking tests, kids who are just taking a 1 or 2 IB classes, etc. for the vast majority of kids who are decent test-takers in the IB program, there is, I would be willing to bet, not a significant difference between their test scores and RM.

RM is good. BCC is good. Puck a place where you want to live and you and your kid can make friends and do fun things outside if school. Both schools are good.

What? That is not true. My kid is in the RMIB right now and there was no test.

I believe that every class before the 2025 graduating class had to take the Cogat as part of the admissions process -- so the IB test results currently reported are all based on kids who took the Cogat. I don't think that the cogat has anything at all in common with an IB assessment, so I don't agree with PP's point, but it is accurate that the kids who have received the diploma to date took a test to get into RMIB. They ditched the test during the pandemic because they didn't want all those kids in a room, and have not brought it back.

So, perfect natural experiment - let’s check back in 4 years and compare IB scores to 4 years earlier and see if stacking the IB program with kids who test well improve IB scores? Of course, if the scores go down a bit everyone will yell that dropping the test allowed MCPS to put “less qualified” kids in the program, which IMO, as long time test prep tutor, is not the right conclusion.

Or whether stacking the IB program with kids whose parents paid for cogoat prep versus smarter kids whose parents can't afford that.

When they gave the CogAT, UMC parents typically prepared their kids. Maybe it was buying a book off amazon or hiring a tutor. Regardless, understanding the question format and gaining a level of comfort with the questions makes a difference. I remember when my oldest took it for CES when they were 7. They had perfect scores on two sections but on the 3rd missed 4. I asked them about it later they said oh I ran out of time and just guessed for the last 3 on that section. Sure, they still scored 99% but would've done better if they had learned how to better manage their time which is a teachable skill. Unfortunately, many parents who are less up on these things don't know to do any of this which puts their often gifted children at a clear disadvantage. This is why I feel getting rid of these roadblocks will result in a fairer and often stronger selection,.

The solution is not to get rid of testing, but to provide everyone the same test prep. But everyone who wants one a cogat test book. I don't mind paying taxes for that.

But, there needs to be some academic measure to determine admissions. Otherwise, it effectively becomes a lottery because grades are very subjective. And if you let in students who are not prepared for such rigor, the drop out rate of the program will be very high. A few students every year already drop out of RMIB due to the time commitment, and some, because it's too hard. Do you really think pushing kids who are not ready into such programs is great for their moral?

There already are several academic measures including grades, standardized test scores, and an essay. Adding a gameable test won't really help. Instead, I'd suggest finding a way to include teacher recs in a way that offsets racial bias.

1. grades are subjective
2. standardized tests? What other standardized test do they use other than cogat? MAP? MAP tests show content learned. That is also not a great measure. What if a student had a bad teacher and didn't teach the content well? Sucks for those kids, I guess.

What if a student is bad at standardized tests?

The idea that a standardized test is an objective measure of academic ability and merit...