Is dual-enrollment a scam?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have friends who did this back in the day in Virginia. Very smart kids who got into top schools but had little money. They did two years at a community college with some of it done while they were still in high school and then transferred to UVA.

I did this in MD. Attended the first 2 years at Montgomery College and transferred to UMCP after 2 years. Saved me a boatload of money and graduated debt free. I do feel like I missed out on the college campus experience though.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:NP here. I don't know why I am continually surprised at the narrow thinking of so many DCUM posters. Montgomery County is one of the most diverse counties in the nation. Just because something doesn't appeal to your family doesn't mean it isn't appropriate for other families. There are many lower income families, immigrant families, families who aren't about to send their girls off to 4 year colleges, families whose teenagers contribute to running the household, families with children with mental health issues, etc. who find Montgomery College to be an excellent opportunity to excellent careers. Not every kid is interested in a typical American high school experience and not every college bound student wants a typical American 4-yr college program. Fortunately, students have many pathways to find success in Montgomery County, and some of those pathways go through MC.

The relationship between MCPS and MC has been around for a while, and it changes and adapts as state laws/initiatives and business needs change. Prior to 2015, students could drop out of high school at age 16. Some did this so that they could work and support families. Students could get their GEDs and then enroll at MC to begin working towards an associate's degree while also working. For 2016-2017 compulsory HS attendance went until age 17, and then beginning in 2018 it changed to age 18. This corresponds with the decrease in enrollment at MC beginning after 2015. Since then, MCPS and MC have been experimenting with different programs beyond simple dual enrollment for some classes. Early College, Middle College, and Jump Start all allow high school students to simultaneously earn an associates degree along with their high school diploma. https://www.montgomerycollege.edu/high-school-students/dual-enrollment/degree-and-pathway-programs/index.html

And there seems to be complete blindness to the Universities of Shady Grove. USG’s mission is “To support and expand pathways to affordable, high-quality public higher education that meet the distinctive needs of the region and are designed to support workforce and economic development in the state; ..." They offer a series of degrees in the health services, education, biotechnology, computer science, and cybersecurity fields all of which are careers in high demand to feed our existing county businesses. There is even a program to support students through HS to a BS degree https://www.acesmontgomery.org/ . So, a motivated student can do Early College at MC and also work to save tuition money. Then at 18 they enroll at USG, can still work and live at home, and take only 2 more years to get their BS. They graduate at age 20 debt free and start their career locally at $50k-$80k. That is a great deal for economic mobility.

So no, dual-enrollment isn't a scam. It is an economic engine not targeted at the DCUM crowd.

This post (and specifically the highlighted) needs to be repeated.
DCUM is out of touch with the real world.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's very good for lower income families who cannot afford 4 years of college easily. It also allows you to go in as a transfer student vs. freshman. There are advantages and we consider it but heard too many negative things.

This is actually not always true - dual enrollment students are often still considered freshman. Umd, for example, only considers dual enrollment students transfers if they complete additional college credits post high school graduation.

Yes, we stated that above, but then it eliminates the primary benefit that people are claiming... that it saves you two years of college. If not, there is no reason to do it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's very good for lower income families who cannot afford 4 years of college easily. It also allows you to go in as a transfer student vs. freshman. There are advantages and we consider it but heard too many negative things.

This is actually not always true - dual enrollment students are often still considered freshman. Umd, for example, only considers dual enrollment students transfers if they complete additional college credits post high school graduation.

Yes, we stated that above, but then it eliminates the primary benefit that people are claiming... that it saves you two years of college. If not, there is no reason to do it.

UMD may not consider you a transfer, but it still saves you 2 years of college.

[Anonymous]

It’s an option. Just like AP classes and IB classes, and special programs. If your student doesn’t want to take advantage of the option then don’t. That doesn’t make it a scam for the students who choose to participate. Some may go dual enrollment and self study for AP test. Someone might want different courses for Junior/Senior year than their school offers. Someone may be clear what they want to study in college and grad school and this gives them a chance to jump start that learning and reduce time and cost. It’s an option.

[Anonymous]

Just to clarify, all the information sessions I have attended on the DE were VERY clear that not all colleges accept MC credits and you have to do your own homework in terms of transferring. They did state that counselors and actual 4 year college recruiters are available at MC for guidance purposes. My DS is in 8th, so dont know for sure on that.
We are actually interested in the new "Virtual DE" program MCPS is starting next year. It allows you to stay in your HS, but take online MC classes. DS does very well with online education model, so we have decided to try it out.

[Anonymous]

Your student doesn’t have to do a full associates degree through dual enrollment, do they?

DD took 6 APs and 1 dual enrollment. Because she scored 5s on some of the APs, she ended up with “double credit (6 credits instead of 3 - for some classes) and is graduating in 3 years thanks to all those credits.

Not a scam at all! Saved us a year of OOS tuition!

[Anonymous]

Two years of less learning is a good thing? I guess if you are just trying to check a box

[Anonymous]

Dual enrollment is for kids to get college credit. Some kids have topped out at what their school has to offer, so they go to MC for a math, science etc… class they want/need. A lot of schools may not take an AP credit, but more take an actual college credit. It also looks more impressive on a college application as its a real college class, which is more rigorous than an AP class. Most other counties in MD (and other states) have many more kids doing this than MCPS does.

[Anonymous]

DD (finished in 3 years) is going onto grad school and we’ll pay for a year of that. She’s one of those students who couldn’t quite make it into the top tier schools (but still a fantastic student - just no hooks). So OOS she went … and dual enrollment plus AP made that more affordable (probably also helped her get her scholarship too). Other friends from our W school in the same boat have stayed for four years and earned a second major.

The point is, every student has or can have a different path. DE can be a big part of that and save some $$ so that can be used for additional learning.

[Anonymous]

I think the thing you have to be careful with is using the DE class for high school credit. Then it may not transfer. That’s the catch.

Your student may not NEED the high school credit because they’ve taken high school classes in middle school so the DE can transfer.

Just read all the details before making decisions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I very much doubt DE is being pushed at the wealthy UMC schools like Whitman and Churchill.
Highly selective colleges and universities tend to prefer AP credits to community college credits but MCPS will never tell you that

It’s encouraged and pretty popular at WJ.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think the thing you have to be careful with is using the DE class for high school credit. Then it may not transfer. That’s the catch.

Your student may not NEED the high school credit because they’ve taken high school classes in middle school so the DE can transfer.

Just read all the details before making decisions.

That’s not an accurate statement at all. It’s called DUAL CREDIT because it counts toward both at the same time (assuming the college has it in their approved credit list).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Dual enrollment is for kids to get college credit. Some kids have topped out at what their school has to offer, so they go to MC for a math, science etc… class they want/need. A lot of schools may not take an AP credit, but more take an actual college credit. It also looks more impressive on a college application as its a real college class, which is more rigorous than an AP class. Most other counties in MD (and other states) have many more kids doing this than MCPS does.

Another advantage: your student learns how to handle an actual college class. My kid did DE and went into a rigorous 4 year program as a freshman. He excelled in college with straight A’s (needed for his program of study) while friends who went to much more rigorous and well regarded high schools floundered. He already knew how to study in college with the less hand holding that high school provides. Also during college application season I liked the DE credits; I felt it showed the colleges he was capable of college level work.

The only caveat: those grades and transcripts will stick with you for the rest of your academic life so make sure your student can handle the class before enrolling.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Dual enrollment is for kids to get college credit. Some kids have topped out at what their school has to offer, so they go to MC for a math, science etc… class they want/need. A lot of schools may not take an AP credit, but more take an actual college credit. It also looks more impressive on a college application as its a real college class, which is more rigorous than an AP class. Most other counties in MD (and other states) have many more kids doing this than MCPS does.

I would not place a community college class above an AP class. How many kids have topped out HS classes in the area where tons of APs are offered.