Why do people expect a “fulfilling” career?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Part of the why is that we have choices, so we want to make choices that align with our values whether that's money or joy. A PP mentioned being part of a blue-collar union. If you grew up knowing you'd be a farmer like your dad, or go work at the GM car factory in Detroit like all your uncles, you weren't thinking about fulfillment. You knew it was the path you were destined for and focused on financial stability. Not wealth, just stable middle class life.

Knowing I don't have to follow in my parents' footsteps I have the ability to make life choices. Our young people are being guided in schools that academics is important because it opens doors and unlocks roads to fulfillment. If that isn't coupled with hard conversations about being self-supporting, being able to save for retirement, raise children and so on then it's easy to get lost in the airy-fairy part of joy and making an impact.

You do realize it’s possible to have both an “airy-fairy” career that makes an impact AND the ability to live comfortably? I have one of those jobs, and I’m still able to save for my kids’ college and my own retirement. I may have to sit in coach when I travel, but that isn’t a problem to me since that seat ends up at the same destination as the first class seat.

It’s extremely shortsighted to think people in lower paying professions can’t have things like financial security. I’m living proof we can.

Seriously a cop and govt worker here. We do all those things too. We also have advanced educations. The myopic view of those making higher incomes is bizarre.

Ivy mentor here. I think the real issue is that these kids want the airy-fairy job without realizing there is a lot of grunt work in everything to get there. I promise you they would consider your cop and government worker positions extraordinarily pathetic (esp the cops) because of social justice. I don't disagree with them, I don't think either of your professions are anything but incredibly self-serving, and then you're too poor to even donate enough to make a difference.

That being said, they don't want your jobs. They want a job defunding the police that lets them be the leader, work random hours, and also pays their bills. That just doesn't happen. If you truly want to disrupt you suck it up make the most money possible and then go ham.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Part of the why is that we have choices, so we want to make choices that align with our values whether that's money or joy. A PP mentioned being part of a blue-collar union. If you grew up knowing you'd be a farmer like your dad, or go work at the GM car factory in Detroit like all your uncles, you weren't thinking about fulfillment. You knew it was the path you were destined for and focused on financial stability. Not wealth, just stable middle class life.

Knowing I don't have to follow in my parents' footsteps I have the ability to make life choices. Our young people are being guided in schools that academics is important because it opens doors and unlocks roads to fulfillment. If that isn't coupled with hard conversations about being self-supporting, being able to save for retirement, raise children and so on then it's easy to get lost in the airy-fairy part of joy and making an impact.

You do realize it’s possible to have both an “airy-fairy” career that makes an impact AND the ability to live comfortably? I have one of those jobs, and I’m still able to save for my kids’ college and my own retirement. I may have to sit in coach when I travel, but that isn’t a problem to me since that seat ends up at the same destination as the first class seat.

It’s extremely shortsighted to think people in lower paying professions can’t have things like financial security. I’m living proof we can.

I'm the PP and didn't mean to say that it isn't always one or the other. I'm not super high income by DCUM standards and went to a crap state school for college so I have some experience there. My point was that as a society we aren't doing a great job telling kids that they have to support themselves first. Fulfilling is wonderful, but what's even better is food on the table. OP as a mentor was pushing the young person towards higher income jobs making sure they see that there are financial trade-offs for careers that might not provide as much financial freedom.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Part of the why is that we have choices, so we want to make choices that align with our values whether that's money or joy. A PP mentioned being part of a blue-collar union. If you grew up knowing you'd be a farmer like your dad, or go work at the GM car factory in Detroit like all your uncles, you weren't thinking about fulfillment. You knew it was the path you were destined for and focused on financial stability. Not wealth, just stable middle class life.

Knowing I don't have to follow in my parents' footsteps I have the ability to make life choices. Our young people are being guided in schools that academics is important because it opens doors and unlocks roads to fulfillment. If that isn't coupled with hard conversations about being self-supporting, being able to save for retirement, raise children and so on then it's easy to get lost in the airy-fairy part of joy and making an impact.

You do realize it’s possible to have both an “airy-fairy” career that makes an impact AND the ability to live comfortably? I have one of those jobs, and I’m still able to save for my kids’ college and my own retirement. I may have to sit in coach when I travel, but that isn’t a problem to me since that seat ends up at the same destination as the first class seat.

It’s extremely shortsighted to think people in lower paying professions can’t have things like financial security. I’m living proof we can.

Seriously a cop and govt worker here. We do all those things too. We also have advanced educations. The myopic view of those making higher incomes is bizarre.

Ivy mentor here. I think the real issue is that these kids want the airy-fairy job without realizing there is a lot of grunt work in everything to get there. I promise you they would consider your cop and government worker positions extraordinarily pathetic (esp the cops) because of social justice. I don't disagree with them, I don't think either of your professions are anything but incredibly self-serving, and then you're too poor to even donate enough to make a difference.

That being said, they don't want your jobs. They want a job defunding the police that lets them be the leader, work random hours, and also pays their bills. That just doesn't happen. If you truly want to disrupt you suck it up make the most money possible and then go ham.

The problem here is trying to teach the soulless what it's like to have a soul. It's like teaching a 1st grader calculus.

People don't do jobs that are meaningful so somebody else thinks what they do is meaningful. Until you become less of a narcissist you won't understand that.

Of course, it's self-serving. My H grew up in a catholic church that destroyed many lives and the thing that drove him was to be a child abuse investigator. It served his soul.

So is art, or music, or teaching... nobody said it didn't serve the self's soul.

Lol, donate enough to make a difference.

My cop H also believes in defund the police effort, cops should not be in schools or act as crossing guards or disciplinarians or therapists. They should be cops, the next generation is right. We both would support somebody taking that effort across the goal line. Nobody understands the problem with policing like a highly educated cop.

There are jobs that will allow them to be leaders, work random hours and also pay their bills. If you are too dense to know that ... again, you should not be a mentor.

Tell your Ivy you only want to mentor people that want to be doctors/lawyer/finance, you are not equipped to mentor everybody.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Part of the why is that we have choices, so we want to make choices that align with our values whether that's money or joy. A PP mentioned being part of a blue-collar union. If you grew up knowing you'd be a farmer like your dad, or go work at the GM car factory in Detroit like all your uncles, you weren't thinking about fulfillment. You knew it was the path you were destined for and focused on financial stability. Not wealth, just stable middle class life.

Knowing I don't have to follow in my parents' footsteps I have the ability to make life choices. Our young people are being guided in schools that academics is important because it opens doors and unlocks roads to fulfillment. If that isn't coupled with hard conversations about being self-supporting, being able to save for retirement, raise children and so on then it's easy to get lost in the airy-fairy part of joy and making an impact.

You do realize it’s possible to have both an “airy-fairy” career that makes an impact AND the ability to live comfortably? I have one of those jobs, and I’m still able to save for my kids’ college and my own retirement. I may have to sit in coach when I travel, but that isn’t a problem to me since that seat ends up at the same destination as the first class seat.

It’s extremely shortsighted to think people in lower paying professions can’t have things like financial security. I’m living proof we can.

Seriously a cop and govt worker here. We do all those things too. We also have advanced educations. The myopic view of those making higher incomes is bizarre.

Ivy mentor here. I think the real issue is that these kids want the airy-fairy job without realizing there is a lot of grunt work in everything to get there. I promise you they would consider your cop and government worker positions extraordinarily pathetic (esp the cops) because of social justice. I don't disagree with them, I don't think either of your professions are anything but incredibly self-serving, and then you're too poor to even donate enough to make a difference.

That being said, they don't want your jobs. They want a job defunding the police that lets them be the leader, work random hours, and also pays their bills. That just doesn't happen. If you truly want to disrupt you suck it up make the most money possible and then go ham.

Your first paragraph makes me question if you’re remotely fit for your job. I don’t care if you are at an Ivy or not. You think service professions are self-serving? You also think police and government work is “pathetic”? You have no business talking to people about their future goals. And “too poor to donate”? That was a joke, correct?

If you talk to my child from a place of mentoring/helping, and THIS is the nonsense she gets from you, I’ll be calling your direct supervisor in a flash. Of course, the previous PP may be correct. You can’t teach the soulless what it is like to have a soul.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:She told me that these options sounded “soul-sucking and depressing,” and that she was hoping to go into journalism or publishing. I told her that those are fields only for rich kids — poor kids like her shouldn’t touch those with a ten-foot pole.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Part of the why is that we have choices, so we want to make choices that align with our values whether that's money or joy. A PP mentioned being part of a blue-collar union. If you grew up knowing you'd be a farmer like your dad, or go work at the GM car factory in Detroit like all your uncles, you weren't thinking about fulfillment. You knew it was the path you were destined for and focused on financial stability. Not wealth, just stable middle class life.

Knowing I don't have to follow in my parents' footsteps I have the ability to make life choices. Our young people are being guided in schools that academics is important because it opens doors and unlocks roads to fulfillment. If that isn't coupled with hard conversations about being self-supporting, being able to save for retirement, raise children and so on then it's easy to get lost in the airy-fairy part of joy and making an impact.

You do realize it’s possible to have both an “airy-fairy” career that makes an impact AND the ability to live comfortably? I have one of those jobs, and I’m still able to save for my kids’ college and my own retirement. I may have to sit in coach when I travel, but that isn’t a problem to me since that seat ends up at the same destination as the first class seat.

It’s extremely shortsighted to think people in lower paying professions can’t have things like financial security. I’m living proof we can.

+1

The person to whom you’re responding is an absolute douche hypocrite.

Seriously a cop and govt worker here. We do all those things too. We also have advanced educations. The myopic view of those making higher incomes is bizarre.

Ivy mentor here. I think the real issue is that these kids want the airy-fairy job without realizing there is a lot of grunt work in everything to get there. I promise you they would consider your cop and government worker positions extraordinarily pathetic (esp the cops) because of social justice. I don't disagree with them, I don't think either of your professions are anything but incredibly self-serving, and then you're too poor to even donate enough to make a difference.

That being said, they don't want your jobs. They want a job defunding the police that lets them be the leader, work random hours, and also pays their bills. That just doesn't happen. If you truly want to disrupt you suck it up make the most money possible and then go ham.

Your first paragraph makes me question if you’re remotely fit for your job. I don’t care if you are at an Ivy or not. You think service professions are self-serving? You also think police and government work is “pathetic”? You have no business talking to people about their future goals. And “too poor to donate”? That was a joke, correct?

If you talk to my child from a place of mentoring/helping, and THIS is the nonsense she gets from you, I’ll be calling your direct supervisor in a flash. Of course, the previous PP may be correct. You can’t teach the soulless what it is like to have a soul.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Part of the why is that we have choices, so we want to make choices that align with our values whether that's money or joy. A PP mentioned being part of a blue-collar union. If you grew up knowing you'd be a farmer like your dad, or go work at the GM car factory in Detroit like all your uncles, you weren't thinking about fulfillment. You knew it was the path you were destined for and focused on financial stability. Not wealth, just stable middle class life.

Knowing I don't have to follow in my parents' footsteps I have the ability to make life choices. Our young people are being guided in schools that academics is important because it opens doors and unlocks roads to fulfillment. If that isn't coupled with hard conversations about being self-supporting, being able to save for retirement, raise children and so on then it's easy to get lost in the airy-fairy part of joy and making an impact.

You do realize it’s possible to have both an “airy-fairy” career that makes an impact AND the ability to live comfortably? I have one of those jobs, and I’m still able to save for my kids’ college and my own retirement. I may have to sit in coach when I travel, but that isn’t a problem to me since that seat ends up at the same destination as the first class seat.

It’s extremely shortsighted to think people in lower paying professions can’t have things like financial security. I’m living proof we can.

+1 the person who whom you’re responding is an absolute douche hypocrite.
Seriously a cop and govt worker here. We do all those things too. We also have advanced educations. The myopic view of those making higher incomes is bizarre.

Ivy mentor here. I think the real issue is that these kids want the airy-fairy job without realizing there is a lot of grunt work in everything to get there. I promise you they would consider your cop and government worker positions extraordinarily pathetic (esp the cops) because of social justice. I don't disagree with them, I don't think either of your professions are anything but incredibly self-serving, and then you're too poor to even donate enough to make a difference.

That being said, they don't want your jobs. They want a job defunding the police that lets them be the leader, work random hours, and also pays their bills. That just doesn't happen. If you truly want to disrupt you suck it up make the most money possible and then go ham.

Your first paragraph makes me question if you’re remotely fit for your job. I don’t care if you are at an Ivy or not. You think service professions are self-serving? You also think police and government work is “pathetic”? You have no business talking to people about their future goals. And “too poor to donate”? That was a joke, correct?

If you talk to my child from a place of mentoring/helping, and THIS is the nonsense she gets from you, I’ll be calling your direct supervisor in a flash. Of course, the previous PP may be correct. You can’t teach the soulless what it is like to have a soul.

[Anonymous]

OP, it doesn’t sound like you have respect for your mentees, among others.

[Anonymous]

I think part of it is that the students are too young and naive to realize that any job (esp when you’re working at an NGO or publishing house for low pay) is extra soul sucking when you work with jerks. It’s less about the actual job and more about whether your boss and coworkers are good.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Part of the why is that we have choices, so we want to make choices that align with our values whether that's money or joy. A PP mentioned being part of a blue-collar union. If you grew up knowing you'd be a farmer like your dad, or go work at the GM car factory in Detroit like all your uncles, you weren't thinking about fulfillment. You knew it was the path you were destined for and focused on financial stability. Not wealth, just stable middle class life.

Knowing I don't have to follow in my parents' footsteps I have the ability to make life choices. Our young people are being guided in schools that academics is important because it opens doors and unlocks roads to fulfillment. If that isn't coupled with hard conversations about being self-supporting, being able to save for retirement, raise children and so on then it's easy to get lost in the airy-fairy part of joy and making an impact.

You do realize it’s possible to have both an “airy-fairy” career that makes an impact AND the ability to live comfortably? I have one of those jobs, and I’m still able to save for my kids’ college and my own retirement. I may have to sit in coach when I travel, but that isn’t a problem to me since that seat ends up at the same destination as the first class seat.

It’s extremely shortsighted to think people in lower paying professions can’t have things like financial security. I’m living proof we can.

I'm the PP and didn't mean to say that it isn't always one or the other. I'm not super high income by DCUM standards and went to a crap state school for college so I have some experience there. My point was that as a society we aren't doing a great job telling kids that they have to support themselves first. Fulfilling is wonderful, but what's even better is food on the table. OP as a mentor was pushing the young person towards higher income jobs making sure they see that there are financial trade-offs for careers that might not provide as much financial freedom.

OP here. Yea, exactly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m an alumni mentor for my college (an Ivy FWIW), and I keep seeing a misconception among the college students I’m assigned to mentee — that your job/career will bring you meaning or fulfillment in life.

For example, I was recently paired with a sophomore from my college who was in the same major as me (English). I’m guessing she’s from a low income background as her Linkedin says that she’s a Questbridge student. She reached out to me and asked for suggestions on careers for an English major that don’t require law school — I suggested software sales (my career), corporate communications, management consulting, and investment banking (the last two being more achievable if she double majors in Econ).

She told me that these options sounded “soul-sucking and depressing,” and that she was hoping to go into journalism or publishing. I told her that those are fields only for rich kids — poor kids like her shouldn’t touch those with a ten-foot pole.

I don’t understand why this generation expects work to be meaningful or fulfilling. Work is a way to make money for all but the wealthy. So why the navel-gazing and entitlement?

Part of the privilege of going to an Ivy is the ability to get a job that makes a ton of money while also being meaningful and fulfilling. That you haven’t figured this out for yourself makes you a poor alumni mentor. I hope this student realizes this and finds a better mentor.

+100. I’m living the cushy life I have today because of connections I got through my Ivy mentors. That’s the job of a mentor— to show alumni how to use the network. Not to tell them to take soul sucking jobs.

OP here. No, going to an Ivy will joy grant you a job that is both fulfilling and financially lucrative. I am curious, dear PPs, what both of your jobs are — NPO directors? Those people get paid $200k/year to do a rewarding and fulfilling job. But those jobs go to the children of the wealthy and the supremely well-connected. And if you’re first-gen on a full ride at an Ivy, that’s not you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m an alumni mentor for my college (an Ivy FWIW), and I keep seeing a misconception among the college students I’m assigned to mentee — that your job/career will bring you meaning or fulfillment in life.

For example, I was recently paired with a sophomore from my college who was in the same major as me (English). I’m guessing she’s from a low income background as her Linkedin says that she’s a Questbridge student. She reached out to me and asked for suggestions on careers for an English major that don’t require law school — I suggested software sales (my career), corporate communications, management consulting, and investment banking (the last two being more achievable if she double majors in Econ).

She told me that these options sounded “soul-sucking and depressing,” and that she was hoping to go into journalism or publishing. I told her that those are fields only for rich kids — poor kids like her shouldn’t touch those with a ten-foot pole.

I don’t understand why this generation expects work to be meaningful or fulfilling. Work is a way to make money for all but the wealthy. So why the navel-gazing and entitlement?

Part of the privilege of going to an Ivy is the ability to get a job that makes a ton of money while also being meaningful and fulfilling. That you haven’t figured this out for yourself makes you a poor alumni mentor. I hope this student realizes this and finds a better mentor.

+100. I’m living the cushy life I have today because of connections I got through my Ivy mentors. That’s the job of a mentor— to show alumni how to use the network. Not to tell them to take soul sucking jobs.

OP here. No, going to an Ivy will joy grant you a job that is both fulfilling and financially lucrative. I am curious, dear PPs, what both of your jobs are — NPO directors? Those people get paid $200k/year to do a rewarding and fulfilling job. But those jobs go to the children of the wealthy and the supremely well-connected. And if you’re first-gen on a full ride at an Ivy, that’s not you.

*will not grant you a job — sorry, typos

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m an alumni mentor for my college (an Ivy FWIW), and I keep seeing a misconception among the college students I’m assigned to mentee — that your job/career will bring you meaning or fulfillment in life.

For example, I was recently paired with a sophomore from my college who was in the same major as me (English). I’m guessing she’s from a low income background as her Linkedin says that she’s a Questbridge student. She reached out to me and asked for suggestions on careers for an English major that don’t require law school — I suggested software sales (my career), corporate communications, management consulting, and investment banking (the last two being more achievable if she double majors in Econ).

She told me that these options sounded “soul-sucking and depressing,” and that she was hoping to go into journalism or publishing. I told her that those are fields only for rich kids — poor kids like her shouldn’t touch those with a ten-foot pole.

I don’t understand why this generation expects work to be meaningful or fulfilling. Work is a way to make money for all but the wealthy. So why the navel-gazing and entitlement?

Part of the privilege of going to an Ivy is the ability to get a job that makes a ton of money while also being meaningful and fulfilling. That you haven’t figured this out for yourself makes you a poor alumni mentor. I hope this student realizes this and finds a better mentor.

+100. I’m living the cushy life I have today because of connections I got through my Ivy mentors. That’s the job of a mentor— to show alumni how to use the network. Not to tell them to take soul sucking jobs.

OP here. No, going to an Ivy will joy grant you a job that is both fulfilling and financially lucrative. I am curious, dear PPs, what both of your jobs are — NPO directors? Those people get paid $200k/year to do a rewarding and fulfilling job. But those jobs go to the children of the wealthy and the supremely well-connected. And if you’re first-gen on a full ride at an Ivy, that’s not you.

Yeah I knew someone running a nonprofit quite well for several years after working their way up from ranks, but board wanted more aggressive fundraising so brought in some prep school grad forms name school have their age because the family was in the society papers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m an alumni mentor for my college (an Ivy FWIW), and I keep seeing a misconception among the college students I’m assigned to mentee — that your job/career will bring you meaning or fulfillment in life.

For example, I was recently paired with a sophomore from my college who was in the same major as me (English). I’m guessing she’s from a low income background as her Linkedin says that she’s a Questbridge student. She reached out to me and asked for suggestions on careers for an English major that don’t require law school — I suggested software sales (my career), corporate communications, management consulting, and investment banking (the last two being more achievable if she double majors in Econ).

She told me that these options sounded “soul-sucking and depressing,” and that she was hoping to go into journalism or publishing. I told her that those are fields only for rich kids — poor kids like her shouldn’t touch those with a ten-foot pole.

I don’t understand why this generation expects work to be meaningful or fulfilling. Work is a way to make money for all but the wealthy. So why the navel-gazing and entitlement?

Part of the privilege of going to an Ivy is the ability to get a job that makes a ton of money while also being meaningful and fulfilling. That you haven’t figured this out for yourself makes you a poor alumni mentor. I hope this student realizes this and finds a better mentor.

+100. I’m living the cushy life I have today because of connections I got through my Ivy mentors. That’s the job of a mentor— to show alumni how to use the network. Not to tell them to take soul sucking jobs.

OP here. No, going to an Ivy will joy grant you a job that is both fulfilling and financially lucrative. I am curious, dear PPs, what both of your jobs are — NPO directors? Those people get paid $200k/year to do a rewarding and fulfilling job. But those jobs go to the children of the wealthy and the supremely well-connected. And if you’re first-gen on a full ride at an Ivy, that’s not you.

Yeah I knew someone running a nonprofit quite well for several years after working their way up from ranks, but board wanted more aggressive fundraising so brought in some prep school grad forms name school have their age because the family was in the society papers.

Right?! Like the unicorn jobs that are both fulfilling and lucrative almost uniformly go to the children of the wealthy. And I bet the prior PPs have wealthy, well-connected parents as well.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m an alumni mentor for my college (an Ivy FWIW), and I keep seeing a misconception among the college students I’m assigned to mentee — that your job/career will bring you meaning or fulfillment in life.

For example, I was recently paired with a sophomore from my college who was in the same major as me (English). I’m guessing she’s from a low income background as her Linkedin says that she’s a Questbridge student. She reached out to me and asked for suggestions on careers for an English major that don’t require law school — I suggested software sales (my career), corporate communications, management consulting, and investment banking (the last two being more achievable if she double majors in Econ).

She told me that these options sounded “soul-sucking and depressing,” and that she was hoping to go into journalism or publishing. I told her that those are fields only for rich kids — poor kids like her shouldn’t touch those with a ten-foot pole.

I don’t understand why this generation expects work to be meaningful or fulfilling. Work is a way to make money for all but the wealthy. So why the navel-gazing and entitlement?

Part of the privilege of going to an Ivy is the ability to get a job that makes a ton of money while also being meaningful and fulfilling. That you haven’t figured this out for yourself makes you a poor alumni mentor. I hope this student realizes this and finds a better mentor.

+100. I’m living the cushy life I have today because of connections I got through my Ivy mentors. That’s the job of a mentor— to show alumni how to use the network. Not to tell them to take soul sucking jobs.

OP here. No, going to an Ivy will joy grant you a job that is both fulfilling and financially lucrative. I am curious, dear PPs, what both of your jobs are — NPO directors? Those people get paid $200k/year to do a rewarding and fulfilling job. But those jobs go to the children of the wealthy and the supremely well-connected. And if you’re first-gen on a full ride at an Ivy, that’s not you.

Yeah I knew someone running a nonprofit quite well for several years after working their way up from ranks, but board wanted more aggressive fundraising so brought in some prep school grad forms name school have their age because the family was in the society papers.

Right?! Like the unicorn jobs that are both fulfilling and lucrative almost uniformly go to the children of the wealthy. And I bet the prior PPs have wealthy, well-connected parents as well.

You live under the false assumption that people care to make $200K/year.

Most think $80K is lucrative and $110 is beyond lucrative.