Why do people expect a “fulfilling” career?

[Anonymous]

This is not nearly new. I graduated in 2001 and it was the same stupid message to follow your “passion”.

I did not major in what I wanted (journalism) and instead took a technical major. People argued with me all the time that I was not following my passion. As if it somehow affected them. You can only advise what you feel is right.

[Anonymous]

I think a lot of it derives from personal experience growing up with your parents. I think there are a lot of people who see their unhappy parents who seemed to always be fighting, stressed out (and were also lame and uninteresting), and associate it with their parents work. So they think by having an exciting fulfilling job, they will be less lame and more happy than their parent

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think living without the means to support yourself sounds way more soul sucking than investment banking or comms. I don’t understand why some people don’t actually consider the amount of money they feel they need in order to live the life they want. I think students need to focus on that aspect a little more when making career decisions.

That student has no idea what an UMC life costs. The numbers for salaries would sound made up (think Dr Evil and asking for $1B in 1960)

+1

Let me guess, she’s a scholarship kid at an Ivy from a rural area, right?

Hah, my experience too. I was making more than my parents house was worth at my NPO job, I thought I had made it ($50k, snicker)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think living without the means to support yourself sounds way more soul sucking than investment banking or comms. I don’t understand why some people don’t actually consider the amount of money they feel they need in order to live the life they want. I think students need to focus on that aspect a little more when making career decisions.

That student has no idea what an UMC life costs. The numbers for salaries would sound made up (think Dr Evil and asking for $1B in 1960)

+1

Let me guess, she’s a scholarship kid at an Ivy from a rural area, right?

Hah, my experience too. I was making more than my parents house was worth at my NPO job, I thought I had made it ($50k, snicker)

This is what people who say "those jobs are only for trust fund kids" don't get: the frame of reference of the people they're speaking to.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Because from Gen X on people have been shoveling the BS message that if you do what you love the money will come so people expect to basketweave or chant and become independently wealthy. Work is to provide income. If you enjoy it you are lucky, but ultimately it is to provide income.

I think GenX was especially egregious, I remember the whole “making money was selling out” capture in the zeitgeist of Reality Bites. To want to be rich was crass. At least now they want to be rich but just think they can do so by passion.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think living without the means to support yourself sounds way more soul sucking than investment banking or comms. I don’t understand why some people don’t actually consider the amount of money they feel they need in order to live the life they want. I think students need to focus on that aspect a little more when making career decisions.

That student has no idea what an UMC life costs. The numbers for salaries would sound made up (think Dr Evil and asking for $1B in 1960)

+1

Let me guess, she’s a scholarship kid at an Ivy from a rural area, right?

Hah, my experience too. I was making more than my parents house was worth at my NPO job, I thought I had made it ($50k, snicker)

This is what people who say "those jobs are only for trust fund kids" don't get: the frame of reference of the people they're speaking to.

And to be clear, that wasn’t how much they paid for it — that was how much it was worth the day I graduated.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This post hits home! I’ve find it really hard to mentor students. I totally understand wanting to do fulfilling work. I like my job. It’s good work and I help people. AND, I like that I can afford to make 3-4 international vacations a year and enjoy fine dining etc.

I make $187k + bonus (single. No kids and I’m 38). Along the way, I took some jobs that were not great, but gave me skills I need to keep progressing. Those jobs (ie budget analyst) sucked, but I chose to see the positive and knew it was just a stop along the way.

My sister refused to “sell her soul.” She make $60k with a kid and struggles. She can’t do ANYTHING. Even a pedicure is a tough spend for her. She has to go on a 18 month payment plan for a 4 day vacation at some 3 star resort in the Bahamas or our dad pays. More often than not, dad pays.

I work at a nonprofit and several folks make more than $200k. You can have both.

You absolutely can have both. I work for the feds and feel like I have both. but people don’t normally start out in nonprofits or gov making six figures or even in really interesting roles. And most of my friends in non-profit careers had to really grind and even take on some roles that they didn’t care to do to get to where they wanted to be. The student that come to me with dreams of saving the world don’t realize what it will take to achieve that dream.

[Anonymous]

There is a whole wide world between publishing and investment banking. How about psychology, public health, technical writing, or teaching? Not for profits are not all the same, and many of them (like mine) are practically indistinguishable from organizations that do the same work but take a profit. We pay market rate for researchers, financial analysts, software developers, managers, and strategy designers. Do I make a fortune? No. I make about $130 at age 50. But it is plenty, and I don’t give a hoot about being rich. I have enough, and I have a job that gives me meaning. Young people can have that, too. They should of course know what the jobs they are considering pay, though, so they aren’t blindsided.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This post hits home! I’ve find it really hard to mentor students. I totally understand wanting to do fulfilling work. I like my job. It’s good work and I help people. AND, I like that I can afford to make 3-4 international vacations a year and enjoy fine dining etc.

I make $187k + bonus (single. No kids and I’m 38). Along the way, I took some jobs that were not great, but gave me skills I need to keep progressing. Those jobs (ie budget analyst) sucked, but I chose to see the positive and knew it was just a stop along the way.

My sister refused to “sell her soul.” She make $60k with a kid and struggles. She can’t do ANYTHING. Even a pedicure is a tough spend for her. She has to go on a 18 month payment plan for a 4 day vacation at some 3 star resort in the Bahamas or our dad pays. More often than not, dad pays.

Just curious, what is your job and what has your career path looked like? Also, just curious, why do you need a high paying job if you don’t have any kids?

Fed here and new Senior Executive (2nd year as SES, 12 years as a fed). Worked in higher Ed for 2 years before getting my MPA. I started as an performance auditor with an OIG (2 years) Then worked as a budget analyst (3 years). Learned a lot in these role. Became an administrative officer (somewhat like a chief of staff)—one of the most thankless jobs next to HR. You do a little bit of everything to keep the org running smoothing (IT, budget, HR, contracting, strategic planning, org development).

When I tell students about my path, they are quick to say “I don’t want to do that. I want to impact national policy.” But then I start telling stories about my career. I start with my days doing budget formulation work and how I made a number recommendations that my CFO adopted. These recs directed agency resources and activities which basically set national policy. Students are stunned hearing this. I talk about my days as an auditor and how one of the programs I evaluated led Congress to give the agency more authority to address a national problem. Student are stunned. Even the AO job led to me being an informal advisor to the #2 in my agency. I always smile when I see his all staff emails. I almost always recognize my ideas from our coffee or happy hour chats.

In regards to the second part of your question—I love to travel. I love buying art. I love wine and cooking. These things cost money, especially when you live in expensive cities such as DC. Also, I may adopt a kid. On the fence with this one, but I can considering it. Thinking through how my life would change as a single dad.

Again, I love me job. On the surface it seems soul sucking. But it really is what you make it. To a large extent I volunteered to be on task force and be part of meetings where I could have influence. These things helped me feel like I was doing what I went to school to do.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There is a whole wide world between publishing and investment banking. How about psychology, public health, technical writing, or teaching? Not for profits are not all the same, and many of them (like mine) are practically indistinguishable from organizations that do the same work but take a profit. We pay market rate for researchers, financial analysts, software developers, managers, and strategy designers. Do I make a fortune? No. I make about $130 at age 50. But it is plenty, and I don’t give a hoot about being rich. I have enough, and I have a job that gives me meaning. Young people can have that, too. They should of course know what the jobs they are considering pay, though, so they aren’t blindsided.

What jobs are there in “psychology?” Even private practice psychologists have relatively low salaries and tons of student debt.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think living without the means to support yourself sounds way more soul sucking than investment banking or comms. I don’t understand why some people don’t actually consider the amount of money they feel they need in order to live the life they want. I think students need to focus on that aspect a little more when making career decisions.

That student has no idea what an UMC life costs. The numbers for salaries would sound made up (think Dr Evil and asking for $1B in 1960)

+1

Let me guess, she’s a scholarship kid at an Ivy from a rural area, right?

Hah, my experience too. I was making more than my parents house was worth at my NPO job, I thought I had made it ($50k, snicker)

This is what people who say "those jobs are only for trust fund kids" don't get: the frame of reference of the people they're speaking to.

OP here. Good point.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Work is the 'place' where you spend far and away most of your waking hours, week in/week out

"Why does't everyone want to spend the majority of their time dying inside, I wonder?"

You sound entitled and rather insufferable. Work is to make money. Period.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I’m an alumni mentor for my college (an Ivy FWIW), and I keep seeing a misconception among the college students I’m assigned to mentee — that your job/career will bring you meaning or fulfillment in life.

For example, I was recently paired with a sophomore from my college who was in the same major as me (English). I’m guessing she’s from a low income background as her Linkedin says that she’s a Questbridge student. She reached out to me and asked for suggestions on careers for an English major that don’t require law school — I suggested software sales (my career), corporate communications, management consulting, and investment banking (the last two being more achievable if she double majors in Econ).

She told me that these options sounded “soul-sucking and depressing,” and that she was hoping to go into journalism or publishing. I told her that those are fields only for rich kids — poor kids like her shouldn’t touch those with a ten-foot pole.

I don’t understand why this generation expects work to be meaningful or fulfilling. Work is a way to make money for all but the wealthy. So why the navel-gazing and entitlement?

Part of the privilege of going to an Ivy is the ability to get a job that makes a ton of money while also being meaningful and fulfilling. That you haven’t figured this out for yourself makes you a poor alumni mentor. I hope this student realizes this and finds a better mentor.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m an alumni mentor for my college (an Ivy FWIW), and I keep seeing a misconception among the college students I’m assigned to mentee — that your job/career will bring you meaning or fulfillment in life.

For example, I was recently paired with a sophomore from my college who was in the same major as me (English). I’m guessing she’s from a low income background as her Linkedin says that she’s a Questbridge student. She reached out to me and asked for suggestions on careers for an English major that don’t require law school — I suggested software sales (my career), corporate communications, management consulting, and investment banking (the last two being more achievable if she double majors in Econ).

She told me that these options sounded “soul-sucking and depressing,” and that she was hoping to go into journalism or publishing. I told her that those are fields only for rich kids — poor kids like her shouldn’t touch those with a ten-foot pole.

I don’t understand why this generation expects work to be meaningful or fulfilling. Work is a way to make money for all but the wealthy. So why the navel-gazing and entitlement?

Part of the privilege of going to an Ivy is the ability to get a job that makes a ton of money while also being meaningful and fulfilling. That you haven’t figured this out for yourself makes you a poor alumni mentor. I hope this student realizes this and finds a better mentor.

+100. I’m living the cushy life I have today because of connections I got through my Ivy mentors. That’s the job of a mentor— to show alumni how to use the network. Not to tell them to take soul sucking jobs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There is a whole wide world between publishing and investment banking. How about psychology, public health, technical writing, or teaching? Not for profits are not all the same, and many of them (like mine) are practically indistinguishable from organizations that do the same work but take a profit. We pay market rate for researchers, financial analysts, software developers, managers, and strategy designers. Do I make a fortune? No. I make about $130 at age 50. But it is plenty, and I don’t give a hoot about being rich. I have enough, and I have a job that gives me meaning. Young people can have that, too. They should of course know what the jobs they are considering pay, though, so they aren’t blindsided.

What jobs are there in “psychology?” Even private practice psychologists have relatively low salaries and tons of student debt.

It varies. Many students have their grad school tuition covered, and are paid enough through assistantships, stipends and grants to live modestly without student debt. And the salaries will vary with your location and the type of practice you build. I/O psychologists generally earn comfortable salaries.