Purdue Returning to Test Required

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How many of the previous posters on this thread are NOT privileged? Let me guess: none.

First gen college here, as an aside.

But I have a serious question for the lawyers on the board, why can’t admissions officers do what the Georgetown Dean claims: adjust score thresholds for zip codes/profiles? (He is quoted in the latest Selingo article as saying a 1200 from an underprivileged zip code should be viewed differ than a 1200 from a kid with lots of resources). Aren’t there studies out there on upward mobility that could prove certain profiles, including test scores below the the college range but above the range for a kid’s particular high school, often have a high rate of success in college, and are therefore worth admitting? Seems like you wouldn’t have to get into questions about race but rather opportunity.

Couldn't you also ask kids on an application if they enrolled in a prep class? Georgetown already asks to see all scores.

It seems to me more info is good rather than bad.

Larry Summers at Harvard suggested doing research like this and testing with the Harvard admissions. He was forced out before he could do this, perhaps because he wanted to do this they used a pretext.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How many of the previous posters on this thread are NOT privileged? Let me guess: none.

Please define "privileged?"

Privileged in the sense that you have college degrees yourselves, are middle class or above, send your kids to an average high school or above, and have the ability to pay for SAT prep courses.

If you fall into any or all of these categories, you are privileged when it comes to college admissions whether you are willing to accept that or not.

Then 80+% of US population is privileged by your definition.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How many of the previous posters on this thread are NOT privileged? Let me guess: none.

First gen college here, as an aside.

But I have a serious question for the lawyers on the board, why can’t admissions officers do what the Georgetown Dean claims: adjust score thresholds for zip codes/profiles? (He is quoted in the latest Selingo article as saying a 1200 from an underprivileged zip code should be viewed differ than a 1200 from a kid with lots of resources). Aren’t there studies out there on upward mobility that could prove certain profiles, including test scores below the the college range but above the range for a kid’s particular high school, often have a high rate of success in college, and are therefore worth admitting? Seems like you wouldn’t have to get into questions about race but rather opportunity.

Couldn't you also ask kids on an application if they enrolled in a prep class? Georgetown already asks to see all scores.

It seems to me more info is good rather than bad.

Kudos to Georgetown for doing this the right way.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How many of the previous posters on this thread are NOT privileged? Let me guess: none.

Please define "privileged?"

Privileged in the sense that you have college degrees yourselves, are middle class or above, send your kids to an average high school or above, and have the ability to pay for SAT prep courses.

If you fall into any or all of these categories, you are privileged when it comes to college admissions whether you are willing to accept that or not.

Then 80+% of US population is privileged by your definition.

Only in the bubble that you live in.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How many of the previous posters on this thread are NOT privileged? Let me guess: none.

I heard multiple college admissions officers say that test optional was creating the most difficulty in their ability to determine which underprivileged kids would be likely to succeed once they arrived on campus. The discussions were considering whether they should bring back tests. These schools said they have enough information without tests to choose among applicants coming from privileged backgrounds or from high schools that they are familiar with. All of these kids will likely do just fine and they can choose among them based on other parts of the application. They said the harder part was evaluating a kid from a small town school that doesn't typically have applicants to their college or underprivileged kids applying. For these kids, they want to have them on paper as part of their student community but really want to make sure that the kid will have the academic skills to succeed. And apparently the test scores really help with that. They are not looking for some stellar score, but alternatively, a score above some lower threshold.

This sounds all well and good, but c’mon - that’s not why you have so many posters on this thread saying hallelujah over schools not being test optional. They like tests because they have privileged kids with high test scores that probably wouldn’t be as high as they are except for their privileged circumstances, and yet they still think those test scores should trump everything else. They view test scores as a scalpel and not an axe.

Yes people want the privileged kids with bad test scores to show them. Why does that offend you? Hopefully a deserving urm or first gen kid gets their spot.

+1. I think the person you are replying has a kid with low scores. She wants TO to continue, and she does that under the disguise that she protects unpriviledged kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How many of the previous posters on this thread are NOT privileged? Let me guess: none.

I heard multiple college admissions officers say that test optional was creating the most difficulty in their ability to determine which underprivileged kids would be likely to succeed once they arrived on campus. The discussions were considering whether they should bring back tests. These schools said they have enough information without tests to choose among applicants coming from privileged backgrounds or from high schools that they are familiar with. All of these kids will likely do just fine and they can choose among them based on other parts of the application. They said the harder part was evaluating a kid from a small town school that doesn't typically have applicants to their college or underprivileged kids applying. For these kids, they want to have them on paper as part of their student community but really want to make sure that the kid will have the academic skills to succeed. And apparently the test scores really help with that. They are not looking for some stellar score, but alternatively, a score above some lower threshold.

This sounds all well and good, but c’mon - that’s not why you have so many posters on this thread saying hallelujah over schools not being test optional. They like tests because they have privileged kids with high test scores that probably wouldn’t be as high as they are except for their privileged circumstances, and yet they still think those test scores should trump everything else. They view test scores as a scalpel and not an axe.

I have “bad test taking kids.” I know this bc they took entrance tests in middle school and even with paid prep never did that well. But test optional doesn’t help them either as there is confusion as to what it means and it has inflated the test scores significantly. It only muddies the waters bc the story is less complete. I am for a return to testing - even though that means my kids will be limited in their options - bc it seems to make sense to have that data. Doesn’t the rest of the world rely on it?

This is us. Test optional doesn't help my "average" kid in the slightest. Her scores are FINE by normal standards. But there are a couple of schools she is looking at where I can guarantee the published average is just not true. It makes her think she can't hang, when I know she could.

But in that case, why not just send the score? If you think she can hang, let the college see the score and decide for themselves. It's not like they don't know the average score has gone up as a result of lopping off the bottom scores.

She will! But those escalating "average" numbers are freaking her out. Ok

Don’t send them! She will be rejected. The colleges love that test optional has skewed their scores. They want to keep the averages high so they look good. Yes, it’s ridiculous but this is why USNWR and the rankings obsessed folks have brought us. Colleges will likely know your kid is in their actual range but they will reject because her score will drag down the average.

The only way to end this madness is to bring back the tests in my opinion.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:How many of the previous posters on this thread are NOT privileged? Let me guess: none.

Oh please give me a freaking break! I am a black Latina who grew up in abject poverty with English being my second language. Even I scored 1520 on the SAT. I studied for the test with an outdated book from the library. I got my behind up every day at 5:00 a.m. and studied for an hour each day before school. It could be done. There are no freaking excuses!

I don't know about your household, but in my household my children are expected to score high on ALL exams and take rigorous courses. My child scored a 1540 on her SAT last year as a sophomore. She studied on Khan Academy because it was free. Heck, I just told my 9th grader this morning that I expect him to score over 1500 next fall on his SAT exam when he is a sophomore. This is how I roll in my house. Stakes are high and their brown skins will not be spared when racism comes knocking on their door. I carry the burden of deep pain for my children's future. Too many people suffered, died, march, protest, etc. for them to not to score high on their exams. Damn, my people are still fighting for human rights, voting rights, etc. Privilege no, not here in this house just high expectations and the history of Jim Crow on my kids' backs!

I welcome that universities are making standardized test a requirement. The insanity of test optional only hurts students and makes the college admission process dysfunctional. It is beyond time that the dysfunctional college admission process is abolished. My daughter wants to become an engineer and she is only applying to schools that require the SAT. Screw the test optional schools! I am so ecstatic that engineering schools are taking the lead on eradicating the nonsense of test optional.

STOP THE INSANITY BRING BACK THE SAT!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How many of the previous posters on this thread are NOT privileged? Let me guess: none.

Please define "privileged?"

Privileged in the sense that you have college degrees yourselves, are middle class or above, send your kids to an average high school or above, and have the ability to pay for SAT prep courses.

If you fall into any or all of these categories, you are privileged when it comes to college admissions whether you are willing to accept that or not.

Then 80+% of US population is privileged by your definition.

Ummm no. 38% of Americans have a 4 year college education. 40% are lower class, and it’s not like the LMC or true MC can pay for SAT prep or a good school district in the DMV. That’s UMC. By definition, 49% of HSs are below average.

Get out of the DMV bubble.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How many of the previous posters on this thread are NOT privileged? Let me guess: none.

First gen college here, as an aside.

But I have a serious question for the lawyers on the board, why can’t admissions officers do what the Georgetown Dean claims: adjust score thresholds for zip codes/profiles? (He is quoted in the latest Selingo article as saying a 1200 from an underprivileged zip code should be viewed differ than a 1200 from a kid with lots of resources). Aren’t there studies out there on upward mobility that could prove certain profiles, including test scores below the the college range but above the range for a kid’s particular high school, often have a high rate of success in college, and are therefore worth admitting? Seems like you wouldn’t have to get into questions about race but rather opportunity.

Couldn't you also ask kids on an application if they enrolled in a prep class? Georgetown already asks to see all scores.

It seems to me more info is good rather than bad.

Kudos to Georgetown for doing this the right way.

+100. More info is better than no info.

[Anonymous]

Copied this from College Confidential. In rejecting test optional, the power point specifically references grade inflation, and that grade inflation is correlated positively with income. This, gpa only analysis tends to hurt those at low income schools. https://www.purdue.edu/senate/documents/meetings/03-23-2020-Use-of-Tests-in-Admissions-Presentation.pdf

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:MIT, Georgia Tech, Purdue, serious schools are coming back to test required.

Georgia Tech was test required even last year. Did they ever go test optional?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Copied this from College Confidential. In rejecting test optional, the power point specifically references grade inflation, and that grade inflation is correlated positively with income. This, gpa only analysis tends to hurt those at low income schools. https://www.purdue.edu/senate/documents/meetings/03-23-2020-Use-of-Tests-in-Admissions-Presentation.pdf

Wow. Does anyone else feel like this is a big deal?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:MIT, Georgia Tech, Purdue, serious schools are coming back to test required.

Georgia Tech was test required even last year. Did they ever go test optional?

They were test optional for one year. Test required came from the legislature, so applicable to University of Georgia as well. University of Florida also test required.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:MIT, Georgia Tech, Purdue, serious schools are coming back to test required.

Georgia Tech was test required even last year. Did they ever go test optional?

It looks like they were for those admitted in 2021, but that's very expected due to Covid. These would be the students who were in March of their junior year of high school when everything shut down. A few may have already taken the SAT prior to that, but most wait until spring of their junior year.
https://admission.gatech.edu/images/pdf/2021FYadmittedprofile.pdf

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How many of the previous posters on this thread are NOT privileged? Let me guess: none.

Oh please give me a freaking break! I am a black Latina who grew up in abject poverty with English being my second language. Even I scored 1520 on the SAT. I studied for the test with an outdated book from the library. I got my behind up every day at 5:00 a.m. and studied for an hour each day before school. It could be done. There are no freaking excuses!

I don't know about your household, but in my household my children are expected to score high on ALL exams and take rigorous courses. My child scored a 1540 on her SAT last year as a sophomore. She studied on Khan Academy because it was free. Heck, I just told my 9th grader this morning that I expect him to score over 1500 next fall on his SAT exam when he is a sophomore. This is how I roll in my house. Stakes are high and their brown skins will not be spared when racism comes knocking on their door. I carry the burden of deep pain for my children's future. Too many people suffered, died, march, protest, etc. for them to not to score high on their exams. Damn, my people are still fighting for human rights, voting rights, etc. Privilege no, not here in this house just high expectations and the history of Jim Crow on my kids' backs!

I welcome that universities are making standardized test a requirement. The insanity of test optional only hurts students and makes the college admission process dysfunctional. It is beyond time that the dysfunctional college admission process is abolished. My daughter wants to become an engineer and she is only applying to schools that require the SAT. Screw the test optional schools! I am so ecstatic that engineering schools are taking the lead on eradicating the nonsense of test optional.

STOP THE INSANITY BRING BACK THE SAT!

Honestly I don’t believe you.