Why would you buy a high-end gas car now?

[Anonymous]

^^ also never have posted anywhere about electric cars before, so that inference is wrong, too

[Anonymous]

I will never buy another gas fueled vehicle. They will be obsolete in the coming decade.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We are getting ready to buy a Porsche. The car it is replacing is 10 years old and wont last until the EVs come out (2023 at the earliest). And we regularly drive 500 miles to our 2nd home (doing it again in 2 weeks) so we need at least 1 gas or hybrid car to make that drive without having the worry about recharging. I think they are projecting that the EV Macan will have a range around 200 miles. I sat in a Taycan recently and it was not comfortable, nor is the design practical for us to haul things.

We do plan to get a EV for a second car when that car needs to be replaced.

Do you regularly make a 500-mile drive in your gas car without having to stop to refuel? Where is your vacation home? I'd bet there's a very convenient way to charge it on the way there.

There is. Tesla Supercharger or Electrify America lots. We did a 500 mile trip recently. Stopped twice to recharge. 30 mins each stop. That was bathroom, eating, stretching legs. And then chilling out in the climate controlled car for another 10 mins each time. Not a hardship at all. You can sit in your car while it's charging. You should take breaks when driving anyway. It's really not complicated.

Also, it cost uys about 20 dollars. Round trip

This is likely the experience that will be there in the future with the time dropped from 30 mins to 10 or 5. This is where electric cars are headed: charging stations with restrooms, food, other stuff to do. This will be the norm. But not for a while.

This basically is the norm now: There is rapid-charging at any highway rest stop, and the EA stations are at Targets, Walmarts, Wawas, malls, etc., where there's plenty of restrooms, food, stuff to do. And the charge time takes about 20 minutes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t want to have to charge my car for 30 minutes every 2 hours on a road trip. I will wait for the infrastructure to catch up.

Does it change your mind if it's 20 minutes every 3 hours?

No -- 8 hours minimum before electric cars work for most people. And then a 5 minute recharge for another 8.

We have one electric car and one gas car. The gas car has a 10-gallon tank; the electric car has a 77 kWh battery. They both basically have the same range, but we can fill up the electric car's battery in our driveway whenever we want, while we have to take the gas car somewhere to refuel it. Neither of them can drive for 8 hours straight without stopping for gas or electricity, so it's never occurred to me to try something ridiculous like that. But sure, "most people" can't use electric cars until they can drive from D.C. to Nashville straight through without stopping.

A 10 gallon tank? I couldn't get through one day of driving on a 10 gallon tank. This all works for people that do not drive much. But not really for anyone outside a city.

I strongly suspect the people I see driving around in upper Northwest D.C. in brand-new luxury gas cars could also manage to get all their driving done in brand-new electric cars. Or in 10-gallon tank gas cars.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We are getting ready to buy a Porsche. The car it is replacing is 10 years old and wont last until the EVs come out (2023 at the earliest). And we regularly drive 500 miles to our 2nd home (doing it again in 2 weeks) so we need at least 1 gas or hybrid car to make that drive without having the worry about recharging. I think they are projecting that the EV Macan will have a range around 200 miles. I sat in a Taycan recently and it was not comfortable, nor is the design practical for us to haul things.

We do plan to get a EV for a second car when that car needs to be replaced.

Do you regularly make a 500-mile drive in your gas car without having to stop to refuel? Where is your vacation home? I'd bet there's a very convenient way to charge it on the way there.

There is. Tesla Supercharger or Electrify America lots. We did a 500 mile trip recently. Stopped twice to recharge. 30 mins each stop. That was bathroom, eating, stretching legs. And then chilling out in the climate controlled car for another 10 mins each time. Not a hardship at all. You can sit in your car while it's charging. You should take breaks when driving anyway. It's really not complicated.

Also, it cost uys about 20 dollars. Round trip

This is likely the experience that will be there in the future with the time dropped from 30 mins to 10 or 5. This is where electric cars are headed: charging stations with restrooms, food, other stuff to do. This will be the norm. But not for a while.

In upstate NY a lot of the state highway rest stops have chargers now. We plan our routes around stops, but we dont have to be sticklers for that planning, either if something else comes along. But I agree, that is the future. Royal Farms was doing a decent job of rolling out chargers a few years ago--although I'm not sure how great they've been keeping them running and maintained. It doesn't take much but it's not nothing.

[Anonymous]

Electrify America's network is branching into a lot of Walmart parking lots. Not the most exciting place to sit and charge, but again, serviceable. Most outlet malls also have chargers. Like when we go to the beach we always stop at the one right over the bridge. The car would make it farther, but that's a good place to pause, stretch legs, grab some food and move around.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, I bought a diesel vehicle, so the mileage is better than regular gas.

I often drive through the high desert, where I live for a good part of the year. Temperatures are routinely in the 110s in the summer, and electric vehicles out there catch on fire at a much higher rate. It isn't practical for me. It might be, when that technology improves.

https://ktvz.com/news/fire/2021/08/23/electric-car-fire-west-of-redmond-prompts-special-firefighter-precautions

I don’t know if it’s the same clown poster making bs arguments against electric cars posing as an expert, but this is simply not true.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plug-in_electric_vehicle_fire_incidents

Your Wikipedia article is both flagged as needing updating and, as far as I can tell, focuses on risk with overcharging and/or impact. I do not see discussion of extreme heat conditions, and yes, we "clowns" are experiencing that on the reservations (and by the way, over 30% of the home s on the reservation don't have electricity -- the closest charging stations are 45+ minutes away).


Please cite a useful reference.

That was the point of the refence, that electric vehicle fires are during charging and on impact. Even your link did not state that the fire in that particular car was due to high outside temperatures. It jsut said that a lot of cars (including gas) catch fire in the summer because of overheating (that vaporizes and ignites gas, duh!).

Your link is not good enough for my scholarship standards, please send me a link that electric vehicles out there catch on fire at a much higher rate! see what I did here? you made the claim that electric cars catch fire in the desert so the burden of proof is on you that it is a widespread problem that consumers need to be aware of. Also in the link, we are talking about Jaguar, one of the absolute worst brands in reliability, and a really minor EV manufacturer:
https://www.motorbiscuit.com/jaguar-struggles-to-claw-up-from-bottom-of-jd-power-2021-dependability-study/

Meanwhile, link on Tesla regulating their battery temperature to prevent thermal overrun.
https://www.easyelectriccars.com/why-do-tesla-batteries-not-overheat-teslas-battery-cooling-system/

Statistics say the access to electricity is 100% of US population so the remore areas you are talking about are just rounding errors and not relevant to the discussion. Sure it may apply to you, but that would be an outlier situation. Also there are portable car chargers for off the grid situations so I think even in that situation there are some solutions.

Appologies for calling you a clown.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Refueling takes 5 minutes. And we can actually make it 500 miles on a full tank, although we usually have to stop once to go to the bathroom. A 200 mile range means 2 recharging stops, and normally we don't stop for more than 10-15 minutes total in a trip.

I call BS on your 500 mile trip with one bathroom break. This is like driving from DC to Maine! Unbelievable how you lie just to score a cheap point. So, if you have your family with you (since you said 'we'), do you synchronize your bathroom breaks, or you need to wear adult diapers if you miss your break? You don't eat, not even a coffee, you make sure everyone took a crap before leaving home?

Even if you do stop, how many of these 500 mile trips do you take once a year? More than one? Sane people would just book a flight, instead of wasting a vacation day on the road, but no, you want to drive for 8 hours straight and wasting 20 minutes on charging is unacceptable.

For the people that can't stand a 20 minute charge every 250 miles (that's a break about every 3.5 hours), you are being ridiculous and that almost never happens.

If you dont want to buy an electric car, thats your right, but your argument on why is absolutely bonkers.

From an owner of an electric car for several years, charging time is a non-issue with the infrastructure that exists today.

It's DC to MA. And yes, I often do it with one stop. I just want to get there and not waste time. In the last 1.5 years I have done the drive 6 times and doing it again this fall. We go for anywhere from 2 weeks to 2 months and need a car while we are there. We haven't purchased a third car to leave at the beach because that actually seems more wasteful - buying an extra car, the flights, the trip from the airport to the house (90 miles). Plus its more expensive. But you tell me - maybe I'm wrong and having an electric car would offset the environmental impact of the extra travel and an extra car.

As I said we do plan to get an EV for our second car when that needs to be replaced (we keep our cars 10+ years so can't jump on trends as quickly as those of you swapping out every 3-4 years). I don't object to EVs, but I want to keep a gas car for long trips until the technology/infrastructure improves.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, I bought a diesel vehicle, so the mileage is better than regular gas.

I often drive through the high desert, where I live for a good part of the year. Temperatures are routinely in the 110s in the summer, and electric vehicles out there catch on fire at a much higher rate. It isn't practical for me. It might be, when that technology improves.

https://ktvz.com/news/fire/2021/08/23/electric-car-fire-west-of-redmond-prompts-special-firefighter-precautions

I don’t know if it’s the same clown poster making bs arguments against electric cars posing as an expert, but this is simply not true.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plug-in_electric_vehicle_fire_incidents

Your Wikipedia article is both flagged as needing updating and, as far as I can tell, focuses on risk with overcharging and/or impact. I do not see discussion of extreme heat conditions, and yes, we "clowns" are experiencing that on the reservations (and by the way, over 30% of the home s on the reservation don't have electricity -- the closest charging stations are 45+ minutes away).


Please cite a useful reference.

That was the point of the refence, that electric vehicle fires are during charging and on impact. Even your link did not state that the fire in that particular car was due to high outside temperatures. It jsut said that a lot of cars (including gas) catch fire in the summer because of overheating (that vaporizes and ignites gas, duh!).

Your link is not good enough for my scholarship standards, please send me a link that electric vehicles out there catch on fire at a much higher rate! see what I did here? you made the claim that electric cars catch fire in the desert so the burden of proof is on you that it is a widespread problem that consumers need to be aware of. Also in the link, we are talking about Jaguar, one of the absolute worst brands in reliability, and a really minor EV manufacturer:
https://www.motorbiscuit.com/jaguar-struggles-to-claw-up-from-bottom-of-jd-power-2021-dependability-study/

Meanwhile, link on Tesla regulating their battery temperature to prevent thermal overrun.
https://www.easyelectriccars.com/why-do-tesla-batteries-not-overheat-teslas-battery-cooling-system/

Statistics say the access to electricity is 100% of US population so the remore areas you are talking about are just rounding errors and not relevant to the discussion. Sure it may apply to you, but that would be an outlier situation. Also there are portable car chargers for off the grid situations so I think even in that situation there are some solutions.

Appologies for calling you a clown.

Appreciate the apology.

From that original link: "The batteries were melting in the extreme heat, Brown said, and the flammable metal was difficult to fully extinguish. Several dry-chemical fire extinguishers were used, along with “copious amounts of water to fully douse all flames and heat,” Brown said."

I work in an area that is routinely 110-120F. This isn't necessarily comparable to DC (!), but it is a reason why electric cars are not taking off here, and it's worth knowing that if we are discussing why people are not buying as many cars of that type in the US as you might expect. A lot of fires out here don't make it into the news. Neither do all deaths and disappearances, to be frank. It's pretty scary sometimes.

Another news article, this regarding Austin, Texas: https://www.driving.co.uk/uncategorised/firefighters-attending-tesla-blaze-use-forty-times-water/
"The liquid electrolyte within batteries is highly flammable and when damaged by a crash or extreme heat can result in internal short-circuiting, which in turn results in a series of uncontrolled, violent chemical reactions known as thermal runaway. This releases huge quantities of energy and can be very difficult to stop." Note that crashes occur in places which more journalism coverage, but I'm not sure that's comparable to extreme heat issues.

I'm also in a charging dead zone. That may change, but it's not a high priority for anyone here right now. And it would be dangerous to be stranded in high desert, so people are going to focus on reliability for vehicles much more than efficiency. For now.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Refueling takes 5 minutes. And we can actually make it 500 miles on a full tank, although we usually have to stop once to go to the bathroom. A 200 mile range means 2 recharging stops, and normally we don't stop for more than 10-15 minutes total in a trip.

I call BS on your 500 mile trip with one bathroom break. This is like driving from DC to Maine! Unbelievable how you lie just to score a cheap point. So, if you have your family with you (since you said 'we'), do you synchronize your bathroom breaks, or you need to wear adult diapers if you miss your break? You don't eat, not even a coffee, you make sure everyone took a crap before leaving home?

Even if you do stop, how many of these 500 mile trips do you take once a year? More than one? Sane people would just book a flight, instead of wasting a vacation day on the road, but no, you want to drive for 8 hours straight and wasting 20 minutes on charging is unacceptable.

For the people that can't stand a 20 minute charge every 250 miles (that's a break about every 3.5 hours), you are being ridiculous and that almost never happens.

If you dont want to buy an electric car, thats your right, but your argument on why is absolutely bonkers.

From an owner of an electric car for several years, charging time is a non-issue with the infrastructure that exists today.

It's DC to MA. And yes, I often do it with one stop. I just want to get there and not waste time. In the last 1.5 years I have done the drive 6 times and doing it again this fall. We go for anywhere from 2 weeks to 2 months and need a car while we are there. We haven't purchased a third car to leave at the beach because that actually seems more wasteful - buying an extra car, the flights, the trip from the airport to the house (90 miles). Plus its more expensive. But you tell me - maybe I'm wrong and having an electric car would offset the environmental impact of the extra travel and an extra car.

As I said we do plan to get an EV for our second car when that needs to be replaced (we keep our cars 10+ years so can't jump on trends as quickly as those of you swapping out every 3-4 years). I don't object to EVs, but I want to keep a gas car for long trips until the technology/infrastructure improves.

We just got an electric car this year that we plan to keep for at least the life of its eight-year battery warranty; up to now, we've had one car, a gas car we still keep as our second car, which is just a few months shy of ten years old. So I'm completely with you on the question of keeping cars a long time.

But I think you're overestimating the inconvenience factor involved in a trip it sounds like you make only 2 or 3 times a year. A Better Route Planner, a useful site for planning EV road trips, says you'd stop twice, for a total of an hour, between D.C. and Nantucket (which I used as a generic stand-in for "beach in Massachusetts"), if you were driving an electric VW, Ford Mach-E, Porsche, or Audi that could charge for free at the Electrify America stations -- once for 22 minutes at a Walmart in South Jersey, and once for 47 minutes at a shopping mall in Stratford, CT, where you could probably get some food/use bathroom/whatever. You could probably install a level 2 charging station at your beach house, so you'd have no trouble charging once you are there. You wouldn't have to pay for any gas to or from the beach house, since you'd be using free fast-charging for the first three years; your auto maintenance and fuel costs in general would go way down; and as a green bonus, you'd have no direct emissions from using the electric car. To me, all that is easily be worth adding a total of 45 to 55 minutes (since you say you already stop for 10 to 15 minutes) to your trips -- especially since the charging logistics now are guaranteed to be the MOST complicated they'll ever be, as more charging options are built out and as cars get updated over the air for faster rapid charging.

[Anonymous]

It's easy to forget that not everyone has their own personal garage or driveway. Sure it's easy to question "why doesn't everyone get one as long as they have the means??" when you're driving into a private garage attached to your house with your own personal charger conveniently on the wall.

I'll have a purely electric car someday in the future and I think they are a great option for many, but for now, I prefer the best-of-both-worlds of my plug-in hybrid. I also take road trips around holidays and I can't stand the idea of arriving at a charging station the day before Thanksgiving only to find it backed up onto the main road with a multi-hour wait just to begin charging: https://www.thedrive.com/news/31274/more-teslas-on-the-road-meant-hours-long-supercharger-lines-over-thanksgiving

[Anonymous]

We have one electric car and one gas car. The gas car has a 10-gallon tank; the electric car has a 77 kWh battery. They both basically have the same range, but we can fill up the electric car's battery in our driveway whenever we want, while we have to take the gas car somewhere to refuel it. Neither of them can drive for 8 hours straight without stopping for gas or electricity, so it's never occurred to me to try something ridiculous like that. But sure, "most people" can't use electric cars until they can drive from D.C. to Nashville straight through without stopping.

What do you drive a Yugo?

[Anonymous]

Electrify America's network is branching into a lot of Walmart parking lots. Not the most exciting place to sit and charge, but again, serviceable. Most outlet malls also have chargers. Like when we go to the beach we always stop at the one right over the bridge. The car would make it farther, but that's a good place to pause, stretch legs, grab some food and move around.

This is exactly why I won't buy an electric car yet. Too much looking around and making do involved.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Are you under the impression that the electricity just wills its way in to existence?

Accounting for how the electricity is produced, the environmental costs of producing the car, etc., an electric car is cleaner than a gas car within 27,000 to 40,000 miles driven: https://www.caranddriver.com/features/a36877102/20-questions-evs-environmentally-friendly/

If you care about the environment, maybe you should consider how much you are driving. Big different if you put a few thousand miles on like me vs. 27,000 to 40,000. Even when I worked and used my car for work, I put on 12-15K. You are driving way to much.

No one is talking about 27,000 miles to 45,000 miles a year. You never keep your cars for more than 15,000 miles?

I keep my cars till they die. We still have a 1998 car. I put on 12k. Year working. We have had out ne car for two years and it has maybe 4K mikes on it. How much you drive is just as important or more.

[Anonymous]

New pp here. I've never had an electric car but would like to get one for my next vehicle. I don't see any problem at all with stopping for half an hour to charge. The only potential issue I can foresee going forward is that as more cars are electric, we will see a lot of people wanting to stop at the same chargers at the same time. In other words, everyone doing road trips are going to want to stop at the restaurants with chargers at 12:00 then people are going to have to wait. There will be more chargers are more electric cars are brought online but you'll never have enough to charge everyone in the parking lot at once. I'm stopping for lunch at 11:00.