Why would you buy a high-end gas car now?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It's easy to forget that not everyone has their own personal garage or driveway. Sure it's easy to question "why doesn't everyone get one as long as they have the means??" when you're driving into a private garage attached to your house with your own personal charger conveniently on the wall.

I'll have a purely electric car someday in the future and I think they are a great option for many, but for now, I prefer the best-of-both-worlds of my plug-in hybrid. I also take road trips around holidays and I can't stand the idea of arriving at a charging station the day before Thanksgiving only to find it backed up onto the main road with a multi-hour wait just to begin charging: https://www.thedrive.com/news/31274/more-teslas-on-the-road-meant-hours-long-supercharger-lines-over-thanksgiving

The Giant near me has Tesla superchargers in the parking lot. So your solution is to charge your car while you grocery shop...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:New pp here. I've never had an electric car but would like to get one for my next vehicle. I don't see any problem at all with stopping for half an hour to charge. The only potential issue I can foresee going forward is that as more cars are electric, we will see a lot of people wanting to stop at the same chargers at the same time. In other words, everyone doing road trips are going to want to stop at the restaurants with chargers at 12:00 then people are going to have to wait. There will be more chargers are more electric cars are brought online but you'll never have enough to charge everyone in the parking lot at once. I'm stopping for lunch at 11:00.

This is my concern too. Although hopefully by the time I get an electric car (in 2 years) I can go pretty far without charging.

[Anonymous]

I would totally buy an electric vehicle but we need a vehicle with captains chair second row and third row seating since we have young kids and often have 6 people in the car.

And we don't spend over $50K for our cars. So until there is a good electric option that meets our space needs and budget...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I would totally buy an electric vehicle but we need a vehicle with captains chair second row and third row seating since we have young kids and often have 6 people in the car.

And we don't spend over $50K for our cars. So until there is a good electric option that meets our space needs and budget...

What SUV meets your budget in the current auto market? Something with 150k miles on it and 15 years old? Used full sized SUV's and trucks are very expensive...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Some of us enjoy things like internal combustion engines and manual transmissions.

Some of us enjoy zooming past you and listening to our music with no engine noise, slowpoke.

Let's race. You pick the first nine miles and I'll pick the last mile. Bet I win and you don't finish (bet doesn't apply if you drive a 4xe).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Some of us enjoy things like internal combustion engines and manual transmissions.

Some of us enjoy zooming past you and listening to our music with no engine noise, slowpoke.

Let's race. You pick the first nine miles and I'll pick the last mile. Bet I win and you don't finish (bet doesn't apply if you drive a 4xe).

Is this really what the anti-EV crowd has devolved into?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Refueling takes 5 minutes. And we can actually make it 500 miles on a full tank, although we usually have to stop once to go to the bathroom. A 200 mile range means 2 recharging stops, and normally we don't stop for more than 10-15 minutes total in a trip.

I call BS on your 500 mile trip with one bathroom break. This is like driving from DC to Maine! Unbelievable how you lie just to score a cheap point. So, if you have your family with you (since you said 'we'), do you synchronize your bathroom breaks, or you need to wear adult diapers if you miss your break? You don't eat, not even a coffee, you make sure everyone took a crap before leaving home?

Even if you do stop, how many of these 500 mile trips do you take once a year? More than one? Sane people would just book a flight, instead of wasting a vacation day on the road, but no, you want to drive for 8 hours straight and wasting 20 minutes on charging is unacceptable.

For the people that can't stand a 20 minute charge every 250 miles (that's a break about every 3.5 hours), you are being ridiculous and that almost never happens.

If you dont want to buy an electric car, thats your right, but your argument on why is absolutely bonkers.

From an owner of an electric car for several years, charging time is a non-issue with the infrastructure that exists today.

It's DC to MA. And yes, I often do it with one stop. I just want to get there and not waste time. In the last 1.5 years I have done the drive 6 times and doing it again this fall. We go for anywhere from 2 weeks to 2 months and need a car while we are there. We haven't purchased a third car to leave at the beach because that actually seems more wasteful - buying an extra car, the flights, the trip from the airport to the house (90 miles). Plus its more expensive. But you tell me - maybe I'm wrong and having an electric car would offset the environmental impact of the extra travel and an extra car.

As I said we do plan to get an EV for our second car when that needs to be replaced (we keep our cars 10+ years so can't jump on trends as quickly as those of you swapping out every 3-4 years). I don't object to EVs, but I want to keep a gas car for long trips until the technology/infrastructure improves.

We just got an electric car this year that we plan to keep for at least the life of its eight-year battery warranty; up to now, we've had one car, a gas car we still keep as our second car, which is just a few months shy of ten years old. So I'm completely with you on the question of keeping cars a long time.

But I think you're overestimating the inconvenience factor involved in a trip it sounds like you make only 2 or 3 times a year. A Better Route Planner, a useful site for planning EV road trips, says you'd stop twice, for a total of an hour, between D.C. and Nantucket (which I used as a generic stand-in for "beach in Massachusetts"), if you were driving an electric VW, Ford Mach-E, Porsche, or Audi that could charge for free at the Electrify America stations -- once for 22 minutes at a Walmart in South Jersey, and once for 47 minutes at a shopping mall in Stratford, CT, where you could probably get some food/use bathroom/whatever. You could probably install a level 2 charging station at your beach house, so you'd have no trouble charging once you are there. You wouldn't have to pay for any gas to or from the beach house, since you'd be using free fast-charging for the first three years; your auto maintenance and fuel costs in general would go way down; and as a green bonus, you'd have no direct emissions from using the electric car. To me, all that is easily be worth adding a total of 45 to 55 minutes (since you say you already stop for 10 to 15 minutes) to your trips -- especially since the charging logistics now are guaranteed to be the MOST complicated they'll ever be, as more charging options are built out and as cars get updated over the air for faster rapid charging.

DC to MA, is it a 400 mile trip, not 500. Give us your end points for the trip and people can advise on the difference between taking the trip in an EV vs gas.

A real life scenario. I drove several times from SF to LA roundtrip in a Tesla, total distance is 400 miles, taking 6 hours. It is really uncomfortable to make no stops, I can imagine it only gets worse for a 500 mile trip, and I'd argue it is also dangerous, driving fatigue is a real thing, honestly, why would you put your family through this for arriving half an hour earlier to the destination?

Since you would be leaving in the morning say sometime 8-9, you still need to stop along the way to have lunch, unless of course you want to eat around 4-5 pm when you arrive at your destination. Again, why would you do this, especialy if you have kids with you, on a 500 mile, 8 hour trip?

Far more common is to schedule a lunch stop around charging, and all Tesla chargers have some restaurants around. For level 3 superchargers it takes about 20 minutes to charge from 10% to 90%, and that is less time than ordering and eating a hamburger at In'n Out. On top of that you dont even need to charge that long to make it to your destination, 10 minutes is more than enough (that's just going to the restroom or buying a coffee at Starbucks).

I agree with the Tesla owner about overestimating the inconvenience of the charging during a road trip. The added time would be at most 30 minutes, since you also go to the restroom and need to put gas (you don't have a gas pump at your summer house, but likely you do have a 240V plug for your dryer).

I'm amazed how people nitpick about a 30 minute delay as a determining factor to getting a car. If those 30 minutes are so important to you, think about all the 15 minute trips to the gas station you would save every week in those 1.5 years (yep, thats 20 hours in total). Compare that with the extra 3 hours from your six 500 mile trips. You are welcome! lol.

This is why I'm wondering if the the poster is trolling. Every single EV owner on this forum is saying charging time is not an issue for road trips with real life examples, but then they come with situations that seem so unrealistic.

If the poster asks in good faith if he needs a gas car for long 500 mile trips, then the answer is no, you dont need one. Get a Tesla because it has the most extensive charging network (and you can use other networks too) and that's it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Refueling takes 5 minutes. And we can actually make it 500 miles on a full tank, although we usually have to stop once to go to the bathroom. A 200 mile range means 2 recharging stops, and normally we don't stop for more than 10-15 minutes total in a trip.

I call BS on your 500 mile trip with one bathroom break. This is like driving from DC to Maine! Unbelievable how you lie just to score a cheap point. So, if you have your family with you (since you said 'we'), do you synchronize your bathroom breaks, or you need to wear adult diapers if you miss your break? You don't eat, not even a coffee, you make sure everyone took a crap before leaving home?

Even if you do stop, how many of these 500 mile trips do you take once a year? More than one? Sane people would just book a flight, instead of wasting a vacation day on the road, but no, you want to drive for 8 hours straight and wasting 20 minutes on charging is unacceptable.

For the people that can't stand a 20 minute charge every 250 miles (that's a break about every 3.5 hours), you are being ridiculous and that almost never happens.

If you dont want to buy an electric car, thats your right, but your argument on why is absolutely bonkers.

From an owner of an electric car for several years, charging time is a non-issue with the infrastructure that exists today.

It's DC to MA. And yes, I often do it with one stop. I just want to get there and not waste time. In the last 1.5 years I have done the drive 6 times and doing it again this fall. We go for anywhere from 2 weeks to 2 months and need a car while we are there. We haven't purchased a third car to leave at the beach because that actually seems more wasteful - buying an extra car, the flights, the trip from the airport to the house (90 miles). Plus its more expensive. But you tell me - maybe I'm wrong and having an electric car would offset the environmental impact of the extra travel and an extra car.

As I said we do plan to get an EV for our second car when that needs to be replaced (we keep our cars 10+ years so can't jump on trends as quickly as those of you swapping out every 3-4 years). I don't object to EVs, but I want to keep a gas car for long trips until the technology/infrastructure improves.

We just got an electric car this year that we plan to keep for at least the life of its eight-year battery warranty; up to now, we've had one car, a gas car we still keep as our second car, which is just a few months shy of ten years old. So I'm completely with you on the question of keeping cars a long time.

But I think you're overestimating the inconvenience factor involved in a trip it sounds like you make only 2 or 3 times a year. A Better Route Planner, a useful site for planning EV road trips, says you'd stop twice, for a total of an hour, between D.C. and Nantucket (which I used as a generic stand-in for "beach in Massachusetts"), if you were driving an electric VW, Ford Mach-E, Porsche, or Audi that could charge for free at the Electrify America stations -- once for 22 minutes at a Walmart in South Jersey, and once for 47 minutes at a shopping mall in Stratford, CT, where you could probably get some food/use bathroom/whatever. You could probably install a level 2 charging station at your beach house, so you'd have no trouble charging once you are there. You wouldn't have to pay for any gas to or from the beach house, since you'd be using free fast-charging for the first three years; your auto maintenance and fuel costs in general would go way down; and as a green bonus, you'd have no direct emissions from using the electric car. To me, all that is easily be worth adding a total of 45 to 55 minutes (since you say you already stop for 10 to 15 minutes) to your trips -- especially since the charging logistics now are guaranteed to be the MOST complicated they'll ever be, as more charging options are built out and as cars get updated over the air for faster rapid charging.

DC to MA, is it a 400 mile trip, not 500. Give us your end points for the trip and people can advise on the difference between taking the trip in an EV vs gas.

A real life scenario. I drove several times from SF to LA roundtrip in a Tesla, total distance is 400 miles, taking 6 hours. It is really uncomfortable to make no stops, I can imagine it only gets worse for a 500 mile trip, and I'd argue it is also dangerous, driving fatigue is a real thing, honestly, why would you put your family through this for arriving half an hour earlier to the destination?

Since you would be leaving in the morning say sometime 8-9, you still need to stop along the way to have lunch, unless of course you want to eat around 4-5 pm when you arrive at your destination. Again, why would you do this, especialy if you have kids with you, on a 500 mile, 8 hour trip?

Far more common is to schedule a lunch stop around charging, and all Tesla chargers have some restaurants around. For level 3 superchargers it takes about 20 minutes to charge from 10% to 90%, and that is less time than ordering and eating a hamburger at In'n Out. On top of that you dont even need to charge that long to make it to your destination, 10 minutes is more than enough (that's just going to the restroom or buying a coffee at Starbucks).

I agree with the Tesla owner about overestimating the inconvenience of the charging during a road trip. The added time would be at most 30 minutes, since you also go to the restroom and need to put gas (you don't have a gas pump at your summer house, but likely you do have a 240V plug for your dryer).

I'm amazed how people nitpick about a 30 minute delay as a determining factor to getting a car. If those 30 minutes are so important to you, think about all the 15 minute trips to the gas station you would save every week in those 1.5 years (yep, thats 20 hours in total). Compare that with the extra 3 hours from your six 500 mile trips. You are welcome! lol.

This is why I'm wondering if the the poster is trolling. Every single EV owner on this forum is saying charging time is not an issue for road trips with real life examples, but then they come with situations that seem so unrealistic.

If the poster asks in good faith if he needs a gas car for long 500 mile trips, then the answer is no, you dont need one. Get a Tesla because it has the most extensive charging network (and you can use other networks too) and that's it.

I have family in West Virginia. Is there enough charging infrastructure there? What about along I64?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I would totally buy an electric vehicle but we need a vehicle with captains chair second row and third row seating since we have young kids and often have 6 people in the car.

And we don't spend over $50K for our cars. So until there is a good electric option that meets our space needs and budget...

You might want to look up an online calculator on EV vs gas car comparison for total cost of ownership. EV's are cheaper to operate and over 5 years you will save about $10k, part of it is also higher resale value, but that also counts.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

I have family in West Virginia. Is there enough charging infrastructure there? What about along I64?

Superchargers in West Virginia are about 100 miles apart so yes. Many other charging options too.

https://www.tesla.com/supercharger

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Appreciate the apology.

From that original link: "The batteries were melting in the extreme heat, Brown said, and the flammable metal was difficult to fully extinguish. Several dry-chemical fire extinguishers were used, along with “copious amounts of water to fully douse all flames and heat,” Brown said."

I work in an area that is routinely 110-120F. This isn't necessarily comparable to DC (!), but it is a reason why electric cars are not taking off here, and it's worth knowing that if we are discussing why people are not buying as many cars of that type in the US as you might expect. A lot of fires out here don't make it into the news. Neither do all deaths and disappearances, to be frank. It's pretty scary sometimes.

Another news article, this regarding Austin, Texas: https://www.driving.co.uk/uncategorised/firefighters-attending-tesla-blaze-use-forty-times-water/
"The liquid electrolyte within batteries is highly flammable and when damaged by a crash or extreme heat can result in internal short-circuiting, which in turn results in a series of uncontrolled, violent chemical reactions known as thermal runaway. This releases huge quantities of energy and can be very difficult to stop." Note that crashes occur in places which more journalism coverage, but I'm not sure that's comparable to extreme heat issues.

I'm also in a charging dead zone. That may change, but it's not a high priority for anyone here right now. And it would be dangerous to be stranded in high desert, so people are going to focus on reliability for vehicles much more than efficiency. For now.

I think they mean the high heat from the thermal run-off reaction. Honestly, I dont think the external temperature bears any risk on battery safety.

If what you say is true that electric car batteries spontaneuously ignite in desert weather, for sure there would be some recalls. I'm not convinced from your links that this is the case. Another anecdotal evidence, where I live, it's not desert but summer is usually 100 F almost every day, still not as hot as your situations. I've never heard of cars catching fire spontaneously. I also follow Tesla news fairly closely because I invested in their stock, and these things just dont happen that often.

Here is a link describing the same event from your own link in much different terms, and the fire was caused by hitting a tree.
https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a36189237/tesla-model-s-fire-texas-crash-details-fire-chief/

It even provides a statistical estimate that Teslas are 10 times less likely to catch fire compared to gas cars, and that includes collitions.

Look up accident data if you'd like, Tesla is very transparent about it, unlike most other auto manufacturers.
https://www.tesla.com/VehicleSafetyReport?redirect=no

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would totally buy an electric vehicle but we need a vehicle with captains chair second row and third row seating since we have young kids and often have 6 people in the car.

And we don't spend over $50K for our cars. So until there is a good electric option that meets our space needs and budget...

What SUV meets your budget in the current auto market? Something with 150k miles on it and 15 years old? Used full sized SUV's and trucks are very expensive...

Who said anything about a full sized SUV or truck? Try a new Honda Pilot, or 1 year old Acura MDX, there are a lot of options with third row under $50K... your exaggeration is amusing though. I'll tell my wife next time that we have to settle for a 15 year old SUV with 150K miles with our $50K budget

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would totally buy an electric vehicle but we need a vehicle with captains chair second row and third row seating since we have young kids and often have 6 people in the car.

And we don't spend over $50K for our cars. So until there is a good electric option that meets our space needs and budget...

What SUV meets your budget in the current auto market? Something with 150k miles on it and 15 years old? Used full sized SUV's and trucks are very expensive...

Who said anything about a full sized SUV or truck? Try a new Honda Pilot, or 1 year old Acura MDX, there are a lot of options with third row under $50K... your exaggeration is amusing though. I'll tell my wife next time that we have to settle for a 15 year old SUV with 150K miles with our $50K budget

Crossovers are not full sized SUV’s.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would totally buy an electric vehicle but we need a vehicle with captains chair second row and third row seating since we have young kids and often have 6 people in the car.

And we don't spend over $50K for our cars. So until there is a good electric option that meets our space needs and budget...

What SUV meets your budget in the current auto market? Something with 150k miles on it and 15 years old? Used full sized SUV's and trucks are very expensive...

Who said anything about a full sized SUV or truck? Try a new Honda Pilot, or 1 year old Acura MDX, there are a lot of options with third row under $50K... your exaggeration is amusing though. I'll tell my wife next time that we have to settle for a 15 year old SUV with 150K miles with our $50K budget

Crossovers are not full sized SUV’s.

Sorry but I don't get your point... never said I needed or wanted a full sized SUV... never suggested that a mid-size SUV or crossover was the same as a full sized vehicle. I WOULD be very interested in an electric SUV with a usable third row that doesn't more than $50K. That's all.

[Anonymous]

My new hybrid Rav4 gets 40-45 mpg, double the CR-V we traded in. Not a plug-in hybrid, just a regular hybrid. A 10-gallon tank of gas lasts FOREVER.